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InkDagger Since: Jul, 2014
#176: Oct 23rd 2019 at 3:07:15 AM

That's a weird one too. We have so many games that seem like they'll eventually fade out when servers die and people have poured so much money into those games... whatever will the discourse look like when they die.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#177: Oct 23rd 2019 at 3:08:32 AM

Looking at what happened with games like that which have already died...the fans who stuck with them to the very end will mourn a while and then move on to new games.

Especially devoted fans might get their hands on the code and revive them by setting up their own private servers.

There's a whole series on Youtube called "Death of a Game" which covers a lot of these. It's a pretty interesting, if rather somber series. It's especially poignant if you were a fan of one or more of the games covered.

Edited by M84 on Oct 23rd 2019 at 6:11:29 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
InkDagger Since: Jul, 2014
#178: Oct 23rd 2019 at 8:33:01 PM

I don't disagree, but it does kind of put Video Games in an awkward spot when it comes to recording and retaining our media. Is there going to be a day where Doom will be gone? Is it ok that some games are preserved and others aren't? Who gets to decide that?

Movies don't really have that problem these days. TV Shows are being preserved and transfered to streaming sites which are quickly becoming ultimate libraries of film archives.

But video games... They're still young and not taken quite so seriously, but I do think it's a conversation to be had at some point about how we preserve our favorite works.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#179: Oct 23rd 2019 at 9:04:25 PM

Wikipedia has a page on videogame preservation.

Edited by M84 on Oct 24th 2019 at 12:07:22 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
danime91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#180: Oct 24th 2019 at 4:43:56 PM

Apparently the game basically has two main endings: Side with the crazy scientist who rescued you from eternal cryosleep in your abandoned colony ship, or side with the greedy corporate executives who control the planet. The rest of your choices and actions get summed up in a slideshow, much like the end of New Vegas. Then I assume the game just ends there like New Vegas did.

Lavaeolus Since: Jan, 2015
#181: Oct 24th 2019 at 5:21:24 PM

Well, I wasn't initially planning on buying day one, but the Game Pass for PC seemed a pretty solid deal, at least to try out for one month. The actual Xbox app I had a somewhat initial bad experience, and I haven't played much of the game since it's late here and I'm heading off to bed. Still, I did decide to run through character creation just to see how it worked.

For the curious, here's what I ended up with. No doubt doomed to be pigeonholed into a technical career by virtue of her name, Susan Tech is a slightly charismatic would-be elevator operator. I didn't actually put any points in guns during the character creation — just Dialog and Tech — but the current plan is probably to go rifles, maybe pistols. Aside from the obvious investment in Persuasion, if there's enough skill points to justify it I might try to augment her Engineering with Hacking. But for now I'm not too set in stone, for better or for worse.

lrrose Since: Jul, 2009
#182: Oct 24th 2019 at 9:11:23 PM

I've played about two hours. Spent most of it exploring the first town.

I was worried for a bit that it would be a Borderlands-style wacky dystopia, but it actually does a good job so far portraying the horrors of capitalism.

Combat is okay so far. I'm doing a support build, focusing on diplomacy and leadership.

Dhiruxide Since: Dec, 2016
#183: Oct 25th 2019 at 2:51:14 AM

Speaking of horrors of capitalism... I just checked Jim Sterling's twitter feed, a screenshot from the game that says Suicide is a crime. That it is an irreparable damage to company property. That it's vandalism.

That's... something that actually personally unnerved me, which rarely happens. This game really goes to town on capitalism, right?

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#184: Oct 25th 2019 at 2:52:44 AM

It's basically the horrors of a Company Town in SPACE.

Reminds me a bit of the Druuge from Star Control.

Edited by M84 on Oct 25th 2019 at 5:56:17 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#185: Oct 25th 2019 at 2:55:11 AM

Wait isn’t suicide already a crime?

Edited by slimcoder on Oct 25th 2019 at 2:56:51 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Dhiruxide Since: Dec, 2016
#186: Oct 25th 2019 at 2:59:47 AM

Game looks legit cool. And is legit cool (even if it's an opinion, can't forget that).

It's just with these dialogues, responses and more I'd feel worn down if I played it. I think that's the game, the commentary and Take Thats doing their job right.

Edited by Dhiruxide on Oct 25th 2019 at 12:01:41 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#187: Oct 25th 2019 at 3:02:32 AM

[up][up]It is, but it's not framed as vandalism of company property in real life.

Edited by M84 on Oct 25th 2019 at 6:03:08 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#188: Oct 25th 2019 at 3:04:05 AM

[up] Okay then yeah that is fucked up.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#189: Oct 25th 2019 at 4:45:22 AM

It is considered like that for the US military but it is more for weird legal reasons with the UCMJ IIRC.

Who watches the watchmen?
Lavaeolus Since: Jan, 2015
#190: Oct 25th 2019 at 5:06:23 AM

For what it's worth, I believe in most of the western world suicide is generally not considered a crime. It does have a history of being illegal, to my knowledge mainly on the justification that it'd be self-murder, but as an example I know the UK decriminalised suicide and attempted suicide in 1961.

I think that goes for all the US states; it's not a crime on the books. Interestingly, and I think somewhat disturbingly, in 2018 a man in Maryland accepted a charge of attempted suicide — but attempted suicide wasn't a charge under statute, it was a charge under common law. Still, this rare case in Maryland aside, I believe you will generally not be charged for suicide in the States.

You can be charged for other things, of course, relating to the consequences and manner of your suicide. And what is still generally considered illegal is to aid or encourage someone else to commit suicide.

Anyway, I've played a bit more now. I've visited Edgewater, done some other sidequests there including retrieving the medicine from the Community Center. So far I have not, in fact, shot anyone. It's been sort of interesting; this way the game plays something like an admittedly clunky stealth game, at least when retrieving the medicine. I was worried Parvati was gonna be a problem, but so long as you're undetected and crouched it doesn't look like she'll start firing.

Random trivia: so, you don't have to deal with the Marauders outside your ship. Yes, of course, you can persuade the guard dudes to go attack them. But if you just stealth past them instead and go to the ship, ADA's little venting stunt ends up scaring them off, which you'll find out via one changed dialogue line from the guards when you head out. This is fortunate, as my initial plan was to step out of the ship and immediately leg it as Marauders began firing at me.

EDIT: Oh! I was exploring and turns out there's a third option with what to do with the medicine. You can hand it over to the Constabulary. In many ways, this is kind of a bad choice: no one gets the medicine, because it's an Auntie Cleo product and so is contraband. It'd be illegal to use it as medicine so it's sent away to storage. But you do get some Board rep in this path, I think.

Edited by Lavaeolus on Oct 25th 2019 at 2:07:34 PM

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#191: Oct 25th 2019 at 8:56:08 AM

I think suicide is considered a crime under law (and US law is highly variable from county to county, let alone state to state) in order to make less likely that police trying to help a person attempting to hurt themselves will be sued or something for intervening. It is explicitly NOT about your body being company property as apparently portrayed in this game.

I think that statement is more of a "the company literally owns you, including your actual physical body" to play up the horrors of lassez-faire, unregulated capitalism and less as a commentary on current law regarding the act of suicide, though.

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#192: Oct 25th 2019 at 9:48:15 AM

In Japan suicide by tossing yourself in front of a train will earn your family a fine equivalent to 2 million dollars.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#193: Oct 25th 2019 at 9:55:31 AM

Though it's not a legal fine but rather the rail companies sending a bill.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#194: Oct 25th 2019 at 10:01:05 AM

That is the case in Outer Worlds too.

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#195: Oct 25th 2019 at 10:28:35 AM

Difference is that in Outer Worlds the corps ARE the government.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#196: Oct 25th 2019 at 11:17:37 AM

Actually, looking it up, it seems like it's not a policy about suicides specifically.

What they do is send bills to families of people who die in railroad “accidents” if the railroad is not at fault and the accident causes a delay that costs the railway money.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Sivartis Captionless One from Lubberland, or the Isle of Lazye Since: Apr, 2009
Captionless One
#197: Oct 25th 2019 at 12:16:01 PM

The fact that suicide was illegal in the 19th century UK is a plot point in Gilbert and Sullivan's Ruddigore: the main character is latest in a line of aristocrats cursed to die if they don't commit at least one crime every day. In the climax, he points out that by choosing not to commit a crime on the day each of them died, they committed suicide, which is itself a crime, therefore they ought not to have died. This results in all of them spontaneously coming back from the dead.

Edited by Sivartis on Oct 25th 2019 at 12:18:45 PM

♭What.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#198: Oct 25th 2019 at 12:50:17 PM

@Lavaeolus In the US, my understanding is that suicide is generally a crime. The reason for it is to empower the cops to prevent suicide. For example, if the cops had evidence a person was going to kill themselves, they could break into their house without a warrant and/or physically restrain them if doing so was necessary to save their life.

With the Outer Worlds example, it's definitely creepy, but more with the exact reasoning rather than the actual policy.

Leviticus 19:34
Lavaeolus Since: Jan, 2015
#199: Oct 25th 2019 at 12:56:03 PM

So I've made my way off Edgewater now, assume a few others here might have. It has a moral dilemma in it! Anyone want to talk about what they chose?

You can direct power to either Edgewater or the Deserters. Now, the Deserters might be the obvious choice initially, and I headed into the power place fully prepared to possibly doom Edgewater, but as Parvati will point out there are innocents in Edgewater and Adelaide is pretty willing to leave them in the dust out of spite. But is it right to doom the Deserter's efforts? And Adelaide has the soil growing again! ...Even if she is using human corpses to do it.

So, yes, I went for the semi-compromise option. I gave Edgewater the power, but convinced Reed to back down and installed Adelaide as leader. No one's left in the cold — well, except Reed — and it's a blow to corporate domination over people's lives all the same! And hey, not having a plague inflicted by Spacer's Choice food will be nice. Bah, then I go back later and see Adelaide mention she'll make Edgewater a city for all — 'except Reed's supporters, of course'. What a world!

As a bit of trivia, I didn't actually lie to Reed about Adelaide using human bodies, so his reaction is sort of interesting. It's something along the lines of: 'That's... that's ingenius! What a way to reuse Spacer's Choice property. Well done to her.'

Anyway, I still haven't killed or shot anyone yet. Didn't even redirect any bots to fight each other, just stealthed my way past them. All sidequests done, I believe, except for one which is explicitly a list of bounty targets. One quest had a little complication: you have to wade into bandit territory to talk to someone. I think if you're seen she'll actually join in on the attack, so you'd probably have to wipe everyone out before she'd calm down, but if you can sneak your way to her you can talk to her and surprise her.

Of course, immediately after that conversation they did see me and she did join in on the attack, battlecry and all. But I legged it out of there with Parvati, no casualties, and otherwise the quest continued as normal. Fortunately by this point I'd realised you can set companion AI to not attack anything.

For what it's worth, I've looked around, nothing that serious so I could be wrong, but as far as I can tell, suicide is not confirmed to be a crime in any US state. (The matter actually gets a little ambiguous, from my reading.) Police are allowed to do wellness checks to help people who may be in danger — that's separate. If anyone has anything sourced to the contrary, I don't want to derail the thread or anything but it'd be interesting to learn more about US law.

Edited by Lavaeolus on Oct 25th 2019 at 9:25:32 AM


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