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Positive trait represent by snake, spider, lizard,... motif.

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BattleRaizer from Realm of Khorne Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#1: Nov 9th 2018 at 10:23:22 AM

Animal like snake, lizard, spider, octopus,... usually being use as the motif for the evil characters. I wonder if these animals are instead use as the good/neutral characters motif, what kind of positive trait will they represent? The opposite go for the animals usually go with the good characters like lion, falcon, rabbit,... what kind of negative traits will they represent?

E.T technically is a Isekai movie
Ooglyeye Hanako from Jacksonville, NC Since: Jun, 2016 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Hanako
#2: Nov 9th 2018 at 10:30:04 AM

I dunno. I'm not a fantasy writer, I'm a comedy writer, so I dunno what to tell ya. Sory.

When given a choice between right or kind. Choose Kind. - Wonder by RJ Pallacio.
CrystalGlacia from at least we're not detroit (Living Relic)
#3: Nov 9th 2018 at 11:13:48 AM

[up] If you don't know, then... you don't have to answer?

I would recommend looking outside of West European cultures for more information, because most animals don't have the same connotations around the world. But here's some ideas.

  • Spiders, especially orb-weavers, could be associated with order (from the orderliness of their webs), control or persistence (waiting at the centers of their webs; I think of the "center of the web" analogy used to describe Nurse Ratched's control of the asylum in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest), or diligence. A lot of spiders are known to put up a fresh web every day, and take it down at the end of each day. Some cultures have even seen spiders' web-making ability as analogous to creation in general, as in the case of Anansi.
  • Depending on how much this culture is able to observe octopode behavior, they could be trickster archetypes, possibly akin to Raven from Amerindian lore. They're crafty, and several species are known to collect interesting objects and arrange them outside their nests.
  • Some snakes are considered to be "farmers' friends" because they eat crop-destroying rodents. The Hopi people further associate this aspect with fertility and wealth. They could also gain an association with rebirth, as in India, because they shed their skin.
  • Virtually any predator could gain an association with savagery or cruelty, perhaps if the culture is pacifist or if they are regularly attacked by that predator. However, lions look impressive enough that most cultures have looked past the fact that they do sometimes attack people. Perhaps yours could be different.
  • It's worth noting that birds are common in mythology due to their relatively odd appearance and visibility (as in humans see birds a lot in multiple contexts compared to weirder animals, such as fish, reptiles, or amphibians) compared to mammals. They fly, they can be brightly colored, etc. I could see a culture coming up with morality designations for different birds and characterizing birds of prey as evil. And, well, they do sometimes attempt to steal prey from other predators. The Maori people have a man-snatching bird monster in their lore that may have been based on the now-extinct Haast's eagle, which was big enough to carry people off.
  • Rabbits, as well as many other prey animals, could be considered cowardly, trickster archetypes (as in African lore), or demeaned because the culture believes those animals exist for them.

Edited by CrystalGlacia on Nov 9th 2018 at 2:19:29 PM

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth."
Sharysa Since: Jan, 2001
#4: Nov 9th 2018 at 10:09:21 PM

Ancient Filipinos viewed snakes and lizards as very important symbols of life and ancestral connections.

And if you're willing to stretch the definition of "lizard," we revered crocodiles as a WHOLE lot of different guardian beings. They could be reincarnated ancestors, full-on water-gods, or they could be one of the few benevolent water-spirits in general—namely because they protected us from the OTHER water-spirits, like mermaids.

The Tagalog word buwaya for a normal "crocodile" used to mean an Eastern dragon. A lot of traditional outrigger boats have crocodile-head prows. They're pretty plain and stylized for everyday canoes, but fancier boats get painted with eyes and teeth, so THEN it clearly looks like a dragon/crocodile.

Of course, this is where Values Dissonance comes in—some tribes thought that for a normal crocodile to BECOME a dragon, it needed a Human Sacrifice so it could gain a tasty, tasty human soul. Plus the people who went to the best afterlife were warriors, women who died in childbirth, and people who ACCIDENTALLY got eaten by crocodiles.

Bennings Since: Aug, 2018 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#5: Nov 10th 2018 at 2:26:39 PM

Snakes are commonly associated with healthcare and medicine, kinda.

Leliel Since: Aug, 2009
#6: Nov 10th 2018 at 7:47:41 PM

I could also see a snake associated with a professional counter-intelligence agent. He eats rats, after all.

Millership from Kazakhstan Since: Jan, 2014
#7: Nov 10th 2018 at 8:54:15 PM

Snakes are also associated with wisdom in Chinese Zodiac, among other things.

Spiral out, keep going.
Wolf1066 Crazy Kiwi from New Zealand (Veteran) Relationship Status: Dancing with myself
Crazy Kiwi
#8: Nov 26th 2018 at 10:38:02 AM

Negative trait associated with lions: murder a woman's children that she had to another man in order to free her up to get pregnant with your own offspring.

"He's a lion of a man. He'll murder your kids in order to get it on with your wife..."

Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#9: Nov 28th 2018 at 10:25:40 PM

Snakes are associated with fertility and agriculture in some cultures while lions could be associated with selfishness and domination.

TroperOnAStickV2 Call me Stick from Redneck country Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Call me Stick
#10: Nov 28th 2018 at 10:38:44 PM

Spiders could be seen as industrious and patient, because of the webs they spin and how they hunt. Similarly, octopi are notoriously smart.

Edited by TroperOnAStickV2 on Nov 28th 2018 at 1:43:56 PM

Hopefully I'll feel confident to change my avatar off this scumbag soon. Apologies to any scumbags I insulted.
Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#11: Nov 29th 2018 at 7:58:01 AM

Scorpions are sometimes seen as symbols of protection and self-preservation as well as passion and sexual energy.

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#12: Nov 29th 2018 at 5:11:23 PM

Snakes in Egypt are associated with royalty. Also, in many cultures snakes are associated with rebirth. Even Abrahamic religion uses a snake as a symbol for rebirth once or twice.

Leviticus 19:34
Spottedleaf Fit check for my napalm era! (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Fit check for my napalm era!
#13: Nov 30th 2018 at 9:28:53 AM

In the Chinese Zodiac, people born under the year of the Snake are seen as passionate, romantic, and intelligent. And of course, we have the Snakes are Sexy trope, which could be broadened to encompass their gracefulness as well. Because they shed their skins, they can also be associated with the cycle of death and rebirth.

A positive trait for spiders could be their industrious nature, obviously. In addition, they're also pretty hardy, and the Greek myth of Arachne connects them with the art of weaving.

Regarding octopuses, they could arguably be sensual as well. Ursula might not be "conventionally" attractive, but no doubt her octopus tentacles and their fluid motions are part of the reason why she seems so graceful despite her large size.

You didn't mention hyenas, but since they're usually represented negatively I'll add them too: Hyenas are matriarchal, which could be one trait that isn't necessarily negative.

Another negative trait for lions- the males might be impressive, but they basically do nothing. They do no hunting and yet demand first pick of the food. They're freeloaders, basically.

>^owo^<
Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#14: Nov 30th 2018 at 12:50:17 PM

[up] Lions also frequently steal kills from other animals, this and the reason you gave are why I said they can be associated with domination as they take pretty much whatever they want. Actually that could also still tie into their association with royalty, specifically a cruel and tyrannical king.

Spottedleaf Fit check for my napalm era! (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Fit check for my napalm era!
#15: Nov 30th 2018 at 1:08:57 PM

Oooh, just thought of one for lizards- some of them are able to lose their tails and regrow them if a predator attacks, so you could use that to represent a willingness to make sacrifices and to move on? And to 'bounce back' after troubling times?

Also, continuing with the Snakes are Sexy thread, I could easily see a snake motif being used for a Heroic Seductress- type character.

In addition to octopi being smart, they can also do camouflage that borders on outright shapeshifting, so they could be seen as a symbol of adaptability and hardiness.

Edited by Spottedleaf on Nov 30th 2018 at 3:14:26 AM

>^owo^<
Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#16: Dec 1st 2018 at 3:06:18 PM

Bats are sometimes associated with perception and depth.

carbon-mantis Collector Of Fine Oddities from Trumpland Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Married to my murderer
Collector Of Fine Oddities
#17: Jan 4th 2019 at 9:11:33 AM

In Cherokee myth, the spider is an in industrious, creative, matronly figure often associated with the feminine. One myth in particular ascribes the discovery of fire to efforts undertaken by a spider (the spider craftily weaves a basket of silk to carry embers without burning herself, and uses her ability to walk on water to carry it across a river without wetting them).

Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#18: Apr 24th 2019 at 7:21:54 PM

Ravens could be associated with love and loyalty as they mate for life and are so loyal to one another that they will rarely take a new partner should one of them die.

Crocodiles/Alligators could be associated with strength, versatility and perseverance due to their power and ability to survive through mass extinctions and live in many environments.

Preying Mantises can viewed as symbols of stealth and patience due to their hunting styles.

As for negative symbolism for usually positively viewed animals.

Horses could be seen as a symbol of mindless obedience as they will go into even the most dangerous of conditions or even be ridden to death if their riders command it.

Dolphins can be seen as sadism and cruelty due to their tendency to sometimes kill infants and smaller porpoises for apparently no reason.

Swans can be seen as hiding a malicious personality behind beauty due to their high aggression despite their beautiful apperance.

Lymantria Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph from Toronto Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
#19: May 10th 2019 at 3:09:33 PM

Wolves could be symbols of good family. We used to think they were mindless monsters, but we now that they not only have a social structure with significant care for their young, but it's similar to our own nuclear family.

Join the Five-Man Band cleanup project!
Spottedleaf Fit check for my napalm era! (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Fit check for my napalm era!
#20: May 10th 2019 at 7:05:00 PM

In spotted hyena clans, the females rule the roost- so the hyena could potentially be a symbol of female empowerment. Both hyenas and vultures are frequent scavengers, which, while typically seen as dishonorable, could also be seen as a sign of humility and resourcefulness. In addition, vultures look just enough like old men that you could use one as a symbol for a wise old mentor.

Edited by Spottedleaf on May 10th 2019 at 9:05:32 AM

>^owo^<
Sharysa Since: Jan, 2001
#21: May 14th 2019 at 3:57:22 PM

Plus, going on actual biology/temperament for horses, they can actually be REALLY ornery, cunning, and vicious. Most people love them for being "free/wild spirits that don't answer to anyone" but that can run right into Reality Ensues because THEY DON'T FUCKING ANSWER TO ANYONE. "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink," after all.

A "horse-like" person could easily be described as two-faced in that they SEEM obedient and placid, and maybe they are with certain people, but if you don't take the lead (or not PROPERLY, at least), you will lose their respect. Or if you forget the GIANT part of "Gentle Giant," you might push them too hard and then you'll get a (metaphorical) hoof to the face.

Edited by Sharysa on May 14th 2019 at 4:00:17 AM

Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#22: Jun 3rd 2019 at 12:11:05 PM

[up][up] Vultures can also be seen as a symbol for spousal loyalty as some species are monogamous.

Parrots could be used to symbolise a character who's intelligent but also obnoxious and foul tempered when they don't get their way.

CrystalGlacia from at least we're not detroit (Living Relic)
#23: Jun 3rd 2019 at 1:14:33 PM

One thing that also needs to be considered is the culture's ability to observe these characteristics of animals. For instance, it was believed until a few hundred years ago that there were no female hyenas because the female's pseudopenis confused observers, with many, starting with Aristotle, believing them to be hermaphrodites. We only know better now because naturalists started studying them in an academic context. In a similar vein, it wouldn't make sense for a terrestrial culture to portray dolphins as jerks with pleasant appearances in their ancient mythology because that's not easily observable behavior unless you're a diver, and so many mythologies portrayed them as friendly helpers of humanity. But I would find it more believable if it showed up in an aquatic culture.

And as for vultures, people from this hypothetical culture would have to be able to observe vultures mating for life to associate faithfulness with them. Various cultures of the Himalayas and Asia Minor were/are known for their sky burials, and they portray vultures positively, believing the birds to be carrying the souls of the deceased into the heavens as they consume their bodies.

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth."
TitanJump Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Singularity
#24: Jun 4th 2019 at 11:46:29 AM

"...,[H]er skin smooth as a serpent's scales and her thighs thick as a pythons...while just as strong as they locked firmly around my abdo-...*crunch*!"

Edited by TitanJump on Jun 4th 2019 at 8:46:51 PM

chloso no u Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Charming Titania with a donkey face
no u
#25: Jun 13th 2019 at 7:00:36 PM

I don't remember from where, but I've heard that spiders are associated with creativity. You know, because of their webs?

This is the end of my post.

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