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Overshadowed By Controversy Cleanup

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Overshadowed by Controversy has several examples, particularly under the Fan Works, Webcomics, and Web Original folders, that don't fit the trope as described. The controversy is supposed to overshadow the work, so if it doesn't do that it shouldn't count as a valid example.

The media folders, such as Anime or Western Animation, could also use a look, as some entries deal with shows, while others deal with actors, fans, or creators. Additionally, some of the entries are not controversial anymore or are not known enough to overshadow the show completely, and others seem closer to Never Live It Down.

Some examples even point out that the controversy was debunked or died down eventually, which doesn't fit the trope, as well as examples saying things like "time will tell if [x] can recover." I originally tried the Real-Life cleanup section, and then a TRS thread, but I hope this is the right section to help us clean up this trope's examples. ^^

MOD NOTE: For something to be overshadowed by controversy; it has to have a significant, arguably overwhelming impact on that work/creator/thing that’s provable by pointing to actual evidence beyond social media likes or a news report. The controversy has to be bigger than the thing for it to overshadow the thing.

For a work, did it bomb directly due to the controversy? Was it pulled from shelves or streaming services? Nothing like this? Then it most likely doesn’t count.

For a creator, did they lose their job/get banned or lose all of their sponsorships or are unable to get any work directly due to the controversy? Did they at least retire directly because of the controversy? Nothing like this? Then it most likely doesn’t count.

Valid examples would be people like Gina Carano or Louie CK. As they were both fired and black listed for their controversies. Or Johnny Depp and Amber Heard are now more known for those controversies than their actual careers. Clearly being overshadowed by it.

If only chronically online people like us are going to be aware of something, it definitely doesn’t count. The controversy has to be so big that even people who are rarely online or know very little about something, would still have heard of the controversy.

Edited by kory on Oct 4th 2025 at 10:21:54 AM

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
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#1776: Jun 6th 2021 at 4:36:13 PM

A single law or controversy could overshadow the rest of a politician's career, like Nixon's Watergate and Clinton's blowie. If their career is just full of controversies in general, most of which are given equal weight (i.e. Trump), then it's not an example.

Edited by mightymewtron on Jun 6th 2021 at 7:36:51 AM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
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#1777: Jun 6th 2021 at 4:37:36 PM

Yeah, hence why I said "most" examples are probably misuse.

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bowserbros No longer active. from Elsewhere Since: May, 2014
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#1778: Jun 6th 2021 at 5:06:44 PM

All of this sounds perfectly understandable. Regarding Condemned by History, looking through the list I'd say that Wilson also feels closer to that trope than this given that again, his scrutiny is pretty recent. Harding, Nixon, Clinton, and Bush definitely feel like the closest examples to this trope, so I'm most in favor of keeping them, and with Ford, I do believe you can make the argument for the Nixon pardon applying (if only as a knock-on effect of Watergate itself). LBJ I'm more heavily on the fence about considering that, as mentioned before, Vietnam seems to hold equal weight to his domestic accomplishments.

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#1779: Jun 6th 2021 at 10:27:11 PM

I notice that there are no mentions of controversial Canadian prime ministers in the Heads of State and Politicians folder of the Real Life page.

For starters, there's the very controversial first prime minister of Canada, Sir John A. Macdonald. I personally don't like him, but he's a founding father of my country.

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#1780: Jun 7th 2021 at 12:02:25 AM

[up] Is he overshadowed by a single controversy or is he just a controversial president?

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nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#1781: Jun 7th 2021 at 4:21:43 AM

[up][up][up]LBJ actually feels like one of the better examples in that there's genuine controversy on whether his domestic achievements are outweighed by Vietnam or not, whereas there's pretty widespread agreement that (say) Nixon and Harding were corrupt.

bowserbros No longer active. from Elsewhere Since: May, 2014
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#1782: Jun 7th 2021 at 9:26:35 AM

nrjxll definitely brings up a good point, though that also gets into another can of worms between how we define "controversy" vs a plain old scandal (since colloquially the two seem to be used almost interchangeably these days).

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DDRMASTERM do you wanna have a bad time? from Someplace, Utah, USA Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
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#1783: Jun 7th 2021 at 10:39:27 AM

[up][up] I think an argument for cutting Harding could be made, as his time was so short and the corruption so blatant that I’m unsure what else there is to discuss about him. Nixon, however, has a lot else that can be discussed, such as his opening relations to China, creating the EPA, and other policies of varying controversy and/or popularity, almost all of which are frequently forgotten due to the magnitude of the Watergate Scandal.

bowserbros No longer active. from Elsewhere Since: May, 2014
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#1784: Jun 7th 2021 at 11:06:00 AM

Regarding anything about Harding outside of the Ohio Gang and Teapot Dome, the main topics I can think of are the circumstances of his election (essentially being a substitute for Theodore Roosevelt after he died in the middle of rebuilding his burned bridges with the Republican party), his bad public speaking skills, his verifiable fathering of an illegitimate child, the release of people who were arrested for opposing World War I, and that whole "Return to Normalcy" slogan that he popularized during the 1920 campaign. The latter in particular got used a lot by pundits leading up to and during the Biden inauguration, so that's at least one thing of note about Harding outside of his corruption scandals that one can name.

Still, the fact that he was at the center of what was essentially the original Watergate (in terms of public and historical prominence) tends to get more attention than any of what I just mentioned, which is the main reason why I think he could apply (assuming that scandals fit the bill).

Edited by bowserbros on Jun 7th 2021 at 11:06:18 AM

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Nen_desharu Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire from Greater Smash Bros. Universe or Toronto Since: Aug, 2020 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
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#1785: Jun 7th 2021 at 5:30:18 PM

[up]x5 Macdonald has quite a number of controversies:

From the Other Wiki:

In 1873, he resigned from office over a scandal in which his party took bribes from businessmen seeking the contract to build the Canadian Pacific Railway. However, he was re-elected in 1878. Macdonald's greatest achievements were building and guiding a successful national government for the new Dominion, using patronage to forge a strong Conservative Party, promoting the protective tariff of the National Policy, and completing the railway. He fought to block provincial efforts to take power back from the national government in Ottawa. He approved the execution of Métis leader Louis Riel for treason in 1885; it alienated many francophones from his Conservative Party. He continued as prime minister until his death in 1891.

In the 21st century, Macdonald has come under criticism for his role in the Chinese Head Tax and federal policies towards Indigenous peoples, including his actions during the North-West Rebellion that resulted in Riel's execution, and the development of the residential school system designed to assimilate Indigenous children. Macdonald, however, remains respected for his key role in the formation of Canada. Historical rankings in surveys of experts in Canadian political history have consistently placed Macdonald as one of the highest-rated Prime Ministers in Canadian history.

Over a century after the execution of Riel, Riel was officially exonerated and became considered the Father of Manitoba. Statues of Macdonald have been vandalized and/or removed.

Macdonald was formerly on Canadian currency (the $10 bill to be more specific).

To clarify, Macdonald was prime minister (i.e., head of government) of Canada. Canada does not have a president because Canada is a monarchy, not a republic. When Macdonald was prime minister, Canada's head of state was Queen Victoria.

Edited by Nen_desharu on Jun 7th 2021 at 11:25:30 AM

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bowserbros No longer active. from Elsewhere Since: May, 2014
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#1786: Jun 7th 2021 at 7:08:13 PM

[up] I'm not well-versed on Canadian politics, being American and all, but from what I can gather that sounds most similar to Andrew Jackson's case, especially in regards to that last paragraph and what I could find glancing at the "Legacy" section of MacDonald's Wikipedia article.

As previously discussed, Jackson would be closer to Condemned by History than OBC, and the "Real Life" folder for CBH is a bit too much of a gray area to jump into so readily, so on those grounds I'm not particularly sure that MacDonald would apply here.

Edited by bowserbros on Jun 7th 2021 at 7:12:20 AM

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#1787: Jun 7th 2021 at 7:13:34 PM

[up] I'm pretty sure the Condemned by History cleanup thread agreed long ago (back when the trope was still called "Deader than Disco") to disallow politicians on the basis that we do not trope real-life people, so he couldn't go there.

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#1788: Jun 7th 2021 at 7:21:26 PM

Macdonald, however, remains respected for his key role in the formation of Canada. Historical rankings in surveys of experts in Canadian political history have consistently placed Macdonald as one of the highest-rated Prime Ministers in Canadian history.

Per these lines, this guy doesn't qualify. It would be Overshadowed by Controversy if the controversy in question was the only thing people remembered about this person. If he's a controversial guy but a lot of people still praise him, then he's not "overshadowed" by his controversy.

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bowserbros No longer active. from Elsewhere Since: May, 2014
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#1789: Jun 7th 2021 at 7:38:48 PM

[up][up] Ah, that discussion I missed (largely because, as mentioned earlier, I didn't use the forums until just recently). Good to have that clarified; I wasn't planning on adding Jackson, Wilson, or MacDonald there anyways, but nevertheless.

[up] Yeah, that's the big reason why I'm more on the fence about Jackson too, since as previously mentioned, he still scores highly in opinion polls. Might as well be best to cut Jackson from the presidents section in that case.

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DDRMASTERM do you wanna have a bad time? from Someplace, Utah, USA Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
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#1790: Jun 7th 2021 at 9:33:36 PM

[up] I’m uncertain too, so It’s safer to cut. Be sure to use the shortened versions for all the ones kept.

bowserbros No longer active. from Elsewhere Since: May, 2014
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#1791: Jun 8th 2021 at 12:49:43 PM

Alright, I've incorporated the shortened version of the Presidents list into the page, cutting out the pre-Harding examples in concurrence with what we've talked about here. I also left out LBJ because after thinking it over, the fact that his involvement with Vietnam holds equal weight to his domestic accomplishments makes him a bit too much of an outlier; that said, I can add it back in if it's better to keep him.

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wesker56 Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
#1792: Jun 8th 2021 at 1:06:32 PM

I think LBJ can be included, as a lot of people seem to think he was responsible for getting Vietnam started, and his one big domestic accomplishment was going to be signed into law by the Kennedy administration before Kennedy's mysterious assassination, so it really doesn't hold much water for LBJ. And no, LBJ doesn't deserve credit for the moon landing in my book, as Kennedy was the one who got the wheels in motion for that to go through. Pretty much everything LBJ did good, he piggybacked off of Kennedy.

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#1793: Jun 8th 2021 at 1:13:10 PM

[up]That said, LBJ tends to be more thoroughly associated with the Civil Rights Act in the public eye than Kennedy (if only because the biggest part of Kennedy's legacy is his own death), which is what gives the impression of it holding as much weight in his legacy as Vietnam. It's a tricky situation, really.

Edited by bowserbros on Jun 8th 2021 at 1:14:18 AM

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wesker56 Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
#1794: Jun 8th 2021 at 1:21:41 PM

It is tricky for sure. LBJ is heavily associated with it, but I think deep down, he didn't support it. I can't remember the name of what he used, but he had his hands in something that would case the black people, that in paraphrased words to avoid triggering a war "Would have those people voting Democratic for the next 200 years." I think it was something to do with welfare.

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#1795: Jun 8th 2021 at 1:29:52 PM

You Mean this. It's not actually true. Or at least very dubious.

Edited by miraculous on Jun 8th 2021 at 1:51:21 AM

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#1796: Jun 8th 2021 at 2:47:19 PM

[up][up] While I agree he likely didn't personally care for it, as you say, he's heavily associated with it. And the public perception is specifically what Overshadowed by Controversy is about.

... that said, I do think the fact that he's considered the most vulgar president could genuinely be a contender. For all the policies he affected (for good or ill), a pretty significant portion of the country knows him as "the dick measuring president?!?"

Helps that his name is a handy pneumonic device in that regard.

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#1797: Jun 8th 2021 at 3:02:38 PM

[up] Isn't that more Never Live It Down?

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WackyPancake from My computer. Since: May, 2011
#1798: Jun 8th 2021 at 3:05:03 PM

I'd say that's more Never Live It Down, yeah.

He doesn't even have that crown anymore, anyway. If you ask any American right now who their most, let's say, "audacious" President has been, they'll probably say Trump.

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bowserbros No longer active. from Elsewhere Since: May, 2014
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#1799: Jun 8th 2021 at 4:43:25 PM

Agreed with the Never Live It Down stuff; LBJ's unique disposition was never really on the same level as the Vietnam stuff, and AFAIK even that didn't completely dominate his legacy to the extent where it could apply for OBC (as again he's equally well-known for the Civil Rights Act). As mentioned before you could count the debate on whether or not Vietnam overshadows him as a controversy of its own in the most textbook sense of the term, but again it doesn't feel like it fits in with the rest of the page.

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#1800: Jun 11th 2021 at 1:06:52 AM

Spore has a List of Transgressions that begins by admitting that it's not an example. That game seems to be mainly known for the creature creator. Should it be removed or trimmed?


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