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Overshadowed By Controversy Cleanup

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Overshadowed by Controversy has several examples, particularly under the Fan Works, Webcomics, and Web Original folders, that don't fit the trope as described. The controversy is supposed to overshadow the work, so if it doesn't do that it shouldn't count as a valid example.

The media folders, such as Anime or Western Animation, could also use a look, as some entries deal with shows, while others deal with actors, fans, or creators. Additionally, some of the entries are not controversial anymore or are not known enough to overshadow the show completely, and others seem closer to Never Live It Down.

Some examples even point out that the controversy was debunked or died down eventually, which doesn't fit the trope, as well as examples saying things like "time will tell if [x] can recover." I originally tried the Real-Life cleanup section, and then a TRS thread, but I hope this is the right section to help us clean up this trope's examples. ^^

MOD NOTE: For something to be overshadowed by controversy; it has to have a significant, arguably overwhelming impact on that work/creator/thing that’s provable by pointing to actual evidence beyond social media likes or a news report. The controversy has to be bigger than the thing for it to overshadow the thing.

For a work, did it bomb directly due to the controversy? Was it pulled from shelves or streaming services? Nothing like this? Then it most likely doesn’t count.

For a creator, did they lose their job/get banned or lose all of their sponsorships or are unable to get any work directly due to the controversy? Did they at least retire directly because of the controversy? Nothing like this? Then it most likely doesn’t count.

Valid examples would be people like Gina Carano or Louie CK. As they were both fired and black listed for their controversies. Or Johnny Depp and Amber Heard are now more known for those controversies than their actual careers. Clearly being overshadowed by it.

If only chronically online people like us are going to be aware of something, it definitely doesn’t count. The controversy has to be so big that even people who are rarely online or know very little about something, would still have heard of the controversy.

Edited by kory on Oct 4th 2025 at 10:21:54 AM

TheLivingDrawing Lucas the Dreamer from The Town of Clayton Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Lucas the Dreamer
#5101: Dec 3rd 2024 at 5:24:42 PM

[up] Most people think of her Steven Universe video when they think of her saying that. And, still, its a controversy about a work's contents/someone's opinion rather than an external controversy attached to the work.

Edited by TheLivingDrawing on Dec 3rd 2024 at 8:25:17 AM

Once Upon A Time.
MrMediaGuy2 Since: Jun, 2015
#5102: Dec 3rd 2024 at 6:43:52 PM

About Mark Hamill, him being anti-Trump isn't unique, but I remember him getting into some hot water not too long ago for supporting Israel so that's what I assumed the people here were referring to.

number9robotic (Experienced Trainee)
#5103: Dec 3rd 2024 at 6:45:38 PM

The fact this is the first I've ever heard of such an opinion leads me to believe that no, it would not be considered Overshadowed by Controversy.

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Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#5104: Dec 3rd 2024 at 6:47:32 PM

Not to say that two people speak for everyone, but considering how this is literally the first time I, as well as the above troper, even heard of said support for Israel, I doubt it qualifies. "Was in a controversy" isn't the same thing as being overshadowed by it. Regardless, like critcising the right wing, Hamil isn't unique in the regard of famous people supporting Israel either.

Edited by Awesomekid42 on Dec 3rd 2024 at 9:48:00 AM

CanuckMcDuck1 PEPSIMAN from Japan Since: Sep, 2023 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
PEPSIMAN
#5105: Dec 3rd 2024 at 6:49:02 PM

Plus, unless a famous person’s views directly affect their work or directly spread hate or harm, I think it’s out of TV Tropes’ business and mission to complain about a celebrity’s personal beliefs, no matter how supposedly contentious they are.

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kory MOD Admin (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Admin
#5106: Dec 3rd 2024 at 6:49:51 PM

Talking about someone else’s views on US politics is still discussing US politics. Let’s change the subject please.

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Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#5107: Dec 3rd 2024 at 6:51:41 PM

Stipulating that the matter in question is off topic, celebrities who express opinions or loyalties that conflict with a particular faction's ideology are not automatically "overshadowed by controversy" — first, not everyone agrees that it's a controversy; second, it needs to have a noticeable effect on their career or on the reception of their work.

Vocal minorities trying to push their agendas through the medium of culture don't automatically get their way regardless of whether your beliefs happen to align with theirs, and TV Tropes will not be a party to such efforts.

Edited by Fighteer on Dec 3rd 2024 at 9:56:11 AM

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number9robotic (Experienced Trainee)
#5108: Dec 3rd 2024 at 7:01:12 PM

Was the point of that conversation still meant to revolve around whether Lily Orchard in particular is OBC-worthy because of having particularly controversial opinons? Because the thing about her work of focus on the TV Tropes page is largely of her media analysis, with the influence of an agenda varying depending on whatever topic she focuses on. I believe the issues she raised in her Steven Universe video essay in specific happened to be merely a case of one extremely scrutinized and controversial piece among her bigger body of media criticism, some of which is substantially less partisan and inflammatory to the degree that I think folks would normally declare someone as "their entire work is built on being controversial".

Speaking for myself in saying that I know her as "the person who insinuated that Rebecca Sugar was a Nazi sympathizer" and "the person who may/may not have sexually abused a relative", which is a substantially different purview of what she purports to be as simply a media critic and video essayist who speaks her mind and may/may not necessarily be looking to start a fight. Regardless of one's opinions on the integrity of that self-appointed description is, I do believe Lily's goal is to be non-controversial, and the fact that those controversies have largely taken up the general discourse and opinion surrounding her, I do believe OBC is warranted.

Edited by number9robotic on Dec 3rd 2024 at 7:17:04 AM

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TheLivingDrawing Lucas the Dreamer from The Town of Clayton Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Lucas the Dreamer
#5109: Dec 3rd 2024 at 7:04:49 PM

[up] Excellent point.

Edited by TheLivingDrawing on Dec 3rd 2024 at 10:14:50 AM

Once Upon A Time.
Mariofan99 Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#5110: Dec 3rd 2024 at 7:16:50 PM

[up] So are we using my write up or does it still need adjustments

Khoshekh6 Since: May, 2022
#5111: Dec 3rd 2024 at 9:44:17 PM

I don't think any of her media takes qualify for OBC, because discussing media and writing is her content

The SU stuff isn't her only controversial takes either, pretty much all of her takes have been controversial to one degree or another. The dunmeshi video probably surpasses the SU stuff at this point, that one had to get taken down and remade, and caused her to swear off doing negative reviews.

number9robotic (Experienced Trainee)
#5112: Dec 3rd 2024 at 9:50:15 PM

[up] But based on how aggressively defensive she is in denying any allegations/criticism towards her content and general personal life, I don't think she's deliberately seeking to cause strife as much as simply voicing her opinion and that she does truly think she's making content from an impartial and critical point of view. Like, regardless of whether you agree/disagree with her takes and analysis, I don't believe she's maliciously trying to stoke controversy nor grift people with deliberately inflammatory content for views and money, and that the controversies surrounding some of her more scrutinized conduct in the videos and out are a byproduct of what she intends to be, not the goal.

Edited by number9robotic on Dec 3rd 2024 at 9:53:04 AM

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Khoshekh6 Since: May, 2022
#5113: Dec 3rd 2024 at 10:22:16 PM

I don't really getting what you're saying

Regardless of her intentions, the work itself is what's controversial, the work can't overshadow itself

Her analysis of steven universe is controversial because of her analysis of steven universe

number9robotic (Experienced Trainee)
#5114: Dec 3rd 2024 at 11:19:19 PM

[up] I don't even necessarily think that that's the case, because frankly there are a lot of terrible YouTube critics with worse takes that don't necessarily stoke up more regular public umbrage. I think what made things a much bigger deal was her hostile and toxic behavior towards critics and other people around her in response to the negative reception of her critiques (alongside other concerning behavior), which again, I consider peripheral to her intended content. I repeat: it's not a matter of her work being disagreeable, but the extremely public flareups outside of them that should be the focus of "controversy" that overshadows the work she does.

Edited by number9robotic on Dec 3rd 2024 at 11:20:15 AM

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Mariofan99 Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#5115: Dec 4th 2024 at 5:30:13 AM

[up][up] we have examples of medi creators overshadowed for reviews they’ve made like Mr. Enter’s review of Turning Red complaing 9/11 wasn’t mentioned

Edited by Mariofan99 on Dec 4th 2024 at 8:30:28 AM

Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#5116: Dec 4th 2024 at 8:35:26 AM

I'd personally want to see a strong argument for rewriting rather than simply reverting Lily's example. I think the previous consensus wording did the job.

Mariofan99 Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#5117: Dec 4th 2024 at 8:52:44 AM

[up] The problem is Lily's Steven Universe takes and insulting Rebbeccas Sugar are just as well known if not more so than the allegations. A few weeks ago, Courtney even ranted on stream how sick she was of YouTubers like Sai Scribes, Anthony Garuigula, and Crimson Ender continuing to make videos and livestreams picking apart Lily's media criticisms instead of focusing on the serious issues (though Courtney has since retracted her complaints towards Anthony and Crimson upon closer examination of their content, with Cournet now believing Sai is the only one using Lily as a content farm and ignoring the allegations).

However, the allegations Courtney has lobbied have become increasingly more known after Joon's documentary. This combined with creators like The Amazing Atheist listing multiple controversies made me feel the best choice of action was to list Lily's most known review controversy and her most known non-review controversy

Edited by Mariofan99 on Dec 4th 2024 at 11:53:15 AM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#5118: Dec 4th 2024 at 9:15:34 AM

I'm pretty sure if another creator is listing multiple controversies, that's breaking the rules

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themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
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#5119: Dec 4th 2024 at 9:22:23 AM

I’ll vouch for Lily being overshadowed more for her views than her recent incident(s). I hadn’t heard of the latter until it popped up here, but I know the former was well documented - I remember reading a Reddit thread negatively dissecting Lily’s pop culture views.

Personally, I’d argue the entry should focus on the latter thusly.

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TheLivingDrawing Lucas the Dreamer from The Town of Clayton Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Lucas the Dreamer
#5120: Dec 4th 2024 at 9:27:43 AM

Honestly I'd say just cut the entry because Lily's entire online career is causing controversy. Its not just one controversy, its countless.

Once Upon A Time.
Mariofan99 Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#5121: Dec 4th 2024 at 11:00:59 AM

[up] Any disagreements? I’m hesitant given the image of control Lily tries to present her channel as

number9robotic (Experienced Trainee)
#5122: Dec 4th 2024 at 11:07:26 AM

[up]I mean I just said multiple times now that I don't think that's a fair or accurate assessment — her goal as a creator is not to provoke controversy, but to be a media reviewer and critic, the controversies surrounding her outside behavior, the hostilities and defensiveness towards them, are a byproduct of what her actual work seeks to be, not the purpose.

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Mariofan99 Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#5123: Dec 4th 2024 at 11:11:39 AM

okay I'll cut the entry, maybe in a year if the Courtney allegations become more widespread, but for now there's no controversy shining above the rest it seems

number9robotic (Experienced Trainee)
Mariofan99 Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#5125: Dec 4th 2024 at 1:00:01 PM

[up] Whoops I completely misread your comment, I thought you were arguing for Lily’s cut. Personally I’m in favor of keeping her


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