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Overshadowed By Controversy Cleanup

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Overshadowed by Controversy has several examples, particularly under the Fan Works, Webcomics, and Web Original folders, that don't fit the trope as described. The controversy is supposed to overshadow the work, so if it doesn't do that it shouldn't count as a valid example.

The media folders, such as Anime or Western Animation, could also use a look, as some entries deal with shows, while others deal with actors, fans, or creators. Additionally, some of the entries are not controversial anymore or are not known enough to overshadow the show completely, and others seem closer to Never Live It Down.

Some examples even point out that the controversy was debunked or died down eventually, which doesn't fit the trope, as well as examples saying things like "time will tell if [x] can recover." I originally tried the Real-Life cleanup section, and then a TRS thread, but I hope this is the right section to help us clean up this trope's examples. ^^

MOD NOTE: For something to be overshadowed by controversy; it has to have a significant, arguably overwhelming impact on that work/creator/thing that’s provable by pointing to actual evidence beyond social media likes or a news report. The controversy has to be bigger than the thing for it to overshadow the thing.

For a work, did it bomb directly due to the controversy? Was it pulled from shelves or streaming services? Nothing like this? Then it most likely doesn’t count.

For a creator, did they lose their job/get banned or lose all of their sponsorships or are unable to get any work directly due to the controversy? Did they at least retire directly because of the controversy? Nothing like this? Then it most likely doesn’t count.

Valid examples would be people like Gina Carano or Louie CK. As they were both fired and black listed for their controversies. Or Johnny Depp and Amber Heard are now more known for those controversies than their actual careers. Clearly being overshadowed by it.

If only chronically online people like us are going to be aware of something, it definitely doesn’t count. The controversy has to be so big that even people who are rarely online or know very little about something, would still have heard of the controversy.

Edited by kory on Oct 4th 2025 at 10:21:54 AM

omega2900 Jemerald of Brainrot from The Midwest, where everything is MID! (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: In my bunk
Jemerald of Brainrot
#4776: Aug 14th 2024 at 7:14:34 PM

This is the first time I've heard of the other thing. I'm only familiar with it mistakenly winning the Oscar.

Get taxed. Idiot.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#4777: Aug 14th 2024 at 7:19:34 PM

Yes, I believe that Overshadowed by Controversy should not apply to real people and things outside of the context of media production. Websites are not fictional media in and of themselves and their members, editors, contributors, etc., may not be troped under any circumstances. This is a long-standing policy.

As with any website, platform, or other non-fictional entity, if it is credited in the production of a creative work, then it is the work to which any OBC examples would attach.

To put it in a pithy but hopefully clear way, this is TV Tropes, not TV Gossip.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#4778: Aug 14th 2024 at 7:20:25 PM

Reminder that we have an open TRS thread and it's probably not best to do cleanup while people are having a drawn out debate elsewhere.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
AnotherOnlinePersona Killed by Chills from Harlequin Forest Since: Dec, 2022
Killed by Chills
#4779: Aug 14th 2024 at 7:21:09 PM

The entry reads less like "this movie is best known for being mistakenly announced as the winner" and more like "you should still be upset about this movie being mistakenly announced as the winner even though it didn't win." Everything from "The mistake was bad enough" can probably be cut, even though the film being "too white" is a separate controversy from its almost win.

EDIT:[nja][nja]

Edited by AnotherOnlinePersona on Aug 14th 2024 at 7:21:36 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#4780: Aug 14th 2024 at 7:28:50 PM

Follow-up thought: The cleanup thread for Websites specifically says that the antics of sites' users are not tropable. So OBC.Websites is an automatic cut, no vote needed.

If any content properly belongs to a work article for creative material credited to the site in question, it may be transplanted.

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 14th 2024 at 10:30:15 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#4781: Aug 14th 2024 at 7:32:27 PM

[up] Placed the article on the Cut List. No such acceptable material appears to exist, so I think it's safe to just cut.

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
Nen_desharu Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire from Greater Smash Bros. Universe or Toronto Since: Aug, 2020 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
#4782: Aug 14th 2024 at 8:17:56 PM

[up]The Mary Sue example might be salvageable.

Kirby is awesome.
Lymantria Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph from Toronto Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
#4783: Aug 14th 2024 at 8:22:03 PM

[up]Before the page gets deleted, here’s that example:

  • The Mary Sue was once a respected hub for geeky news with a feminist bent, reaching particular prominence during the Depression Quest controversy, where it became known as one of the few sites where the subject could be discussed safely due to its active moderation. Its reputation started to decline with the departures of its founding staff, including Jill Pantozzi and Rebecca Pahle; the new regime, headed by Teresa Jusino, made heavy cutbacks to the site's features, attempted to move the site to a subscription model (ostensibly to pay for new features that never materialized), and became notorious for putting out articles with controversial takes, apparently for no other reason than to generate controversy and attract clicks (most infamously, Jusino herself penned a piece defending the use of Bury Your Gays on The 100).
    • Following Jusino's departure, the site came under the leadership of Jessica Mason and Rachel Leishman, whose personal peccadillos (Mason banned many of the site's longtime commenters for criticizing her, while Leishman constantly fawns over Tom Holland and calls him her "son") have overshadowed any discussion of the site's articles.
    • Further controversy arose in 2020 when in response to a question about terrible working conditions in digital media, Pantozzi and Pahle came forward and revealed that TMS had severely underpaid them, that parent company Abrams Media forced Pantozzi to do a video discussion on sister site Mediaite about Game of Thrones (in which Pantozzi was the designated feminist critic) and then failed to protect her from the inevitable flood of trolls, and that after Pantozzi and Pahle left, the editor who replaced them was paid even less than they were. Pantozzi summed up her feelings thusly: "On the outside, the appearance of The Mary Sue in the industry was one of wild success, a niche market being served to by talented writers and editors who knew what they were doing. Inside we were being taken advantage of and miserable. I wish I had left sooner."

Join the Five-Man Band cleanup project!
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#4784: Aug 14th 2024 at 8:23:49 PM

[up] It's a pretty detailed example, although it has some serious Thread Mode problems. But it's about a non-fiction site as far as I can tell. It's not attached to any fictional material, and as such it falls under gossip.

We can go on all day about controversies affecting media companies, but that's not TV Tropes' purpose. They have to affect a creative work that we would allow to be troped.

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 14th 2024 at 11:25:05 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DoktorvonEurotrash Lex et Veritas from Not a place of honour (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#4785: Aug 15th 2024 at 5:19:12 AM

Yeah, The Mary Sue isn't a narrative work. I guess it might qualify for keeping since we've kept pages for creators who review/debate fictional works, though.

Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015
#4786: Aug 15th 2024 at 5:56:48 AM

Since we deleted websites as not tropeable works, what about politicians and other real life? How do/can we define something overshadowing their objective worth/accomplishments as opposed to a legit thing to judge them by?

Overshadowed TRS currently seems to want to keep with a 50 year wait.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#4787: Aug 15th 2024 at 6:08:44 AM

TRS can't override the rules for websites, which prohibit troping their members. Feel free to quote me.

Edit: Sorry, you were talking about politicians, not websites. I'll leave that decision up to TRS.

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 15th 2024 at 9:31:07 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Zuxtron Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel from Node 03 (On A Trope Odyssey)
#4788: Aug 15th 2024 at 8:59:08 AM

The way I saw the 4chan/8chan examples, they weren't just "these forums have users who did bad things." The sites are designed and run in such a way that toxicity, harassment, and political extremism were inevitable outcomes. Such acts are inherent to the site when there are no barriers to participation, total anonymity, and the staff do very little to prevent these things from happening.

EDIT: One could also argue that even if harassment and criminal activity do count as user antics, the examples aren't about that, they're about the public perception of the site. OBC is "a thing is mainly remembered for a certain controversial element", and you want to add "unless that controversial element is something its users did", which doesn't make sense to me. Overshadowed is overshadowed, regardless of what the controversy is about.

Edited by Zuxtron on Aug 15th 2024 at 12:47:20 PM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#4789: Aug 15th 2024 at 10:40:25 AM

Yeah, but the public image of 4chan is irrelevant to TV Tropes, since 4chan is not a creator of narrative content.

I'm not disputing that these things happened, but it's not our job to document them.

The core problem, in my opinion, is that when we have tropes about controversies and drama and stuff like that, people instinctively want to talk about those topics related to all sorts of stuff that has nothing to do with the purpose of the site. It's a form of scope creep that we must be vigilant against.

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 15th 2024 at 1:43:26 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Zuxtron Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel from Node 03 (On A Trope Odyssey)
#4790: Aug 15th 2024 at 10:46:20 AM

Only creative works should get work pages, but non-creative works can still have examples listed on trope pages.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#4791: Aug 15th 2024 at 10:47:57 AM

That's irrelevant. Yes, they can have examples, but not of this trope, because we don't permit it. I'm not sure how this is unclear.

Edit: I should clarify - it's up to TRS to decide if OBC can have examples about non-fiction media. Rather, Website articles do not permit examples about RL people, and 4chan is a website, not a creator of non-fiction media.

TRS is not allowed to overturn existing policy statements (without moderator approval).

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 15th 2024 at 1:52:30 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#4792: Aug 15th 2024 at 10:57:52 AM

Er, wait, what about things like Fallen Creator and Role-Ending Misdemeanor? Both focus on what happens to creators as people especially after doing bad things? This policy doesn't seem in line with what the wiki has been doing for years now.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#4793: Aug 15th 2024 at 10:58:42 AM

Those may only be used if the controversy had an impact on the creator's ability to produce content. We've been over this a million times, seemingly.

4chan is not a producer of content that TV Tropes covers, ergo any controversy about it is off topic for the site.

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 15th 2024 at 2:00:37 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#4794: Aug 15th 2024 at 11:00:18 AM

I'm more responding to what was posted at the TRS thread, it just seems inappropriate to ask there.

"In other words, "Bob did a bad thing and thus his newspaper failed," is off topic for the wiki and thus prohibited."

Was the part that threw me off. Though I'm guessing that in this case "newspaper" is not meant to stand for any work and is instead an intentionally non-creative work?

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#4795: Aug 15th 2024 at 11:01:56 AM

Correct. Non-creative works are not tropable and thus controversies about them are not tropable.

There is some leeway for non-fiction, creative works like documentaries and Books on Trope, but we've discussed that separately and I don't feel the need to rehash it. Neither of those categories applies to 4chan.

Hosting sites, image boards, forums, and other platforms that do not author creative content are not tropable, full stop, ever, period.

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 15th 2024 at 2:09:15 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#4796: Aug 15th 2024 at 11:05:44 AM

Okay, gotcha. Thanks for clarifying

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015
#4797: Aug 15th 2024 at 11:27:37 AM

[up][up]So the reason Website were cut is that they were mere platforms for content tropeable enough to qualify for Overshadowed as opposed to such content themselves, correct?

I had a thought about RL. If groups (political parties, corporations, ex.) are the "platform" in this case, would individual people/products count as the "content" which could be Overshadowed? Or is people just off the table/only apply to content creators who's works are tropeable?

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#4798: Aug 15th 2024 at 11:36:43 AM

I think we have to restrict it to content that is itself tropable. There's no other way to keep irrelevant gossip off the site.

Political campaigns as "fictionalized content" are so borderline that I'd rather not, for ROCEJ if nothing else. But if Nancy Politician appears in fictional works that mention her controversies, those are fair to trope in-universe, using only the context in which the works present them.

Similarly, if Nancy Politician or Babe Sports Star is an actor, writer, or producer of creative media and their career is sabotaged by a scandal, that's fair game.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015
#4799: Aug 15th 2024 at 1:29:49 PM

[up]Other things that allow Real Life examples don't have the restriction of limited to content creators. Things that restrict political examples like Role-Ending Misdemeanor are case by case.

That seems like where the confusion comes from.

Role-Ending Misdemeanor.Other states "This trope allows Limited Real Life Examples Only: Examples for religion, politics, law, business and adult films are prohibited." I assume a RL Overshadowed page would include a similar disclaimer with the restrictions discussed. My question it would these relations leave enough examples to warrant a separate RL page as opposed to putting it under Other.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#4800: Aug 15th 2024 at 1:35:17 PM

Part of that is probably due to each of those being handled as its own TRS or Projects action, lacking direct coordination with others.

And I'd love to have someone explain to me the difference between Role-Ending Misdemeanor and Overshadowed by Controversy. Preferably in less than three paragraphs.

Regardless, none of that matters because Websites specifically disclaim any RL examples. Any rule we may have for REM or OBC is preempted, unless we change the Websites policy.

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 15th 2024 at 4:38:15 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

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