Surprisingly Realistic Outcome, previously called Reality Ensues, is one of the most heavily misused tropes this site has ever had, having gone to the Trope Repair Shop twice ([1]
[2]
) and Trope Talk once ([3]
) before settling into its current state of having to receive constant cleanup.
These issues finally came to a head in 2019 when Reality Ensues went to TRS after a wick check found misuse to outnumber valid examples 30-40 to 1. After discussion, tropers agreed to drop the "broken convention" aspect of the trope and rename it Surprisingly Realistic Outcome to improve clarity. However, after the cleanup began, it soon became apparent that instead of properly reviewing examples, tropers were mass-moving them to the new name with no regard for whether they even fit the new definition, and the cleanup soon became regarded
as the textbook example of botched TRS work. Despite removing nearly half of the examples, SRO was still in Overdosed Tropes with over 10,000 examples by the time Reality Ensues wick migration finished. This cleanup thread, which predates the TRS efforts by nearly two years, noticed the problem and took it to TRS a second time, which eventually turned into a Trope Talk discussion that finally fleshed out SRO with an actual description and established clear, concise criteria for judging examples. After that, cleanup began intermittently, eventually deleting nearly all the subpages and getting SRO below the Overdosed Tropes threshold; active cleanup continues.
Many Stock Phrases used in this thread describe particular types of misuse encountered frequently:
- Not surprising. — The outcome described isn't a Bait-and-Switch and merely follows expected genre conventions.
- Note that SRO can't be common in any fiction, as realistic events being surprising requires that they be rare. They might be unexpected at first if they keep happening, but they would eventually become expected; SRO being "common" in media is an oxymoron.
- Plot happens. — The example merely describes an event or series of events but not why people typically expect something different.
- Deconstruction / Genre Deconstruction / Deconstructed Trope / Deconstructed Character Archetype shoehorn. — The example is a deconstruction of some type misplaced under SRO.
- Too fantastical. — The causes/outcome includes stuff Impossible in Real Life such as Applied Phlebotinum, Functional Magic, Science Fiction, etc., meaning they're too unrealistic by default.
- Character reaction. — The outcome involves a character reacting in a certain way or having certain emotions, which we can't gauge the realism of because people's emotional reactions vary far too much.
- Not realistic. — The supposed "realistic" outcome isn't legitimately realistic; using this phrase requires you to describe why it isn't realistic.
- Too implausible. — The outcome describes an outcome that happened because of things too unlikely to count as relatively realistic compared to what they were subverting.
- Cuttable ZCE. — The example is a Zero-Context Example, which can be cut unilaterally in a cleanup.
- Not an outcome. — The example is a Discussed Trope, Lampshade Hanging, Conversational Troping, something that happens over too much time to be momentary, a general feature of the setting, or is otherwise not a singular event.
- Too unclear. — The example is too convoluted or obtuse to judge.
- Irrelevant. — The example describes stuff utterly irrelevant to the definition of SRO.
A big thing I've noticed is that it's often used for anything remotely realistic, or something that's realistic but doesn't necessarily affect the story. Another problem is that the trope seems to be cherry-picked, where any instance of reality ensuing is put there, as well as when another trope could serve the example better.
Problematic examples from one sample page, Surprisingly Realistic Outcome.Disney Animated Series: "Despite his attempts Wander can't make friends with Dominator who constantly rebuffs his friendly gestures throughout season 2. Even at the end of everything, she still refuses. Sylvia even lampshades it, telling him some people are just like that."
"Spider-Man's fight against Sandman and Rhino, where Spidey uses Rhino's weight against him. rather than fighting him directly." "Beshte gets sunburns all over his body and is easily exhausted while he is lost in the Outlands. Justified due to the fact that hippos need water to survive to avoid sunburn and overheating."
"It's heavily implied that being the leader of the Lion Guard has taken a toll on Kion's social and private life."
"Milo Murphy's Law is about a boy named Milo Murphy whose entire life is centered around Murphy's Law. In another cartoon, being The Jinx would cause people to be afraid of them, resulting in an unsocial lifestyle. That does not apply here. While everyone does watch their step around Milo, they do not hate him for it. Being The Jinx does, however, give everyone Paranoia Fuel, given that Murphy's Law can happen at any time, so chances are you might need insurance, a phone in case of emergencies, among other things. Milo himself (as well as his friends Melissa and Zack) just learned to adapt to his condition, being prepared for anything. He has lived with Murphy's Law his entire life after all. That being said, that does not mean that they don't panic all the time. Examples include Milo panicking over his monthly doctor's note, and Melissa panicking over riding a rollercoaster with Milo."
" Hiro is initially not allowed to use Tadashi's former lab, as it can only be accessed by upperclassmen who earned the privilege. Subverted in the second half of the pilot when Professor Granville decides Hiro using the lab would benefit him. On a related note regarding Granville, she is tough, but fair when interacting with the students. She might be, as Wasabi describes "a hard case", but Granville being a complete sadist and picking on Hiro would be unrealistic. She is actually a decent person."
Edited by lalalei2001 on Oct 18th 2024 at 2:06:25 PM
It's a tricky example because glass is often portrayed as unrealistically fragile in fiction, so it fits the Surprising and Realistic (also Outcome) aspects, but the question is, is it unrealistic to break a glass bottle by throwing it? I don't think so, and that's needed for the "-ly" part of the trope name.
The trope is Surprisingly Realistic Outcome, not Surprising, Realistic Outcome. It has to be surprising because the expected outcome was dependent on Artistic License and the outcome shown is what would happen in real life.
Consensus?:
- World War Z:
- During their exile, the Chinese submarine crew discovers a number of vessels that are dead and abandoned because the people fleeing on them made no preparations for long-term survival at sea, the American zepplin pilot watched highways full of people fleeing the cities with no plan, and in some cases attempting to flee to cities that others are fleeing from, and an entire segment is dedicated to the panicked flight to Northern Canada that resulted in nearly all refugees being wiped out and Canada's ecosystem irreparably destroyed, thanks to the complete lack of logical planning on the part of the refugees, many of whom had time to prepare. The first two could be seen as a Take That! at the Romero Dawn/Day/Land of the Dead movies, which ended with the protagonists driving, flying, or sailing away from the zombies with no real plan. Plot happens
- Several of the stories revolve around this happening to people who didn't think things through. The Japanese Otaku had the realization that shimmying down so many floors on a set of bedsheets isn't as easy as the movies depicted. Not an oucome
- A helicopter gunship pilot at Yonkers tries to cut through a zombie horde with his rotor-blades and promptly crashes. Plot happens
- The CIA director says that although ordinary people pre-war thought of the CIA as an omnipresent and omnipotent force, it was really an earthly organization with finite resources and very human limitations. Not an outcome
- A bunch of celebrities hole up in a well-stocked, heavily-fortified mansion and broadcast it to the world. They soon get swarmed by survivors looking to take that fortress for themselves. Plot happens
- A long-haired guy on rollerblades tries to fight a horde of zombies in New York City. His long hair promptly gets grabbed by zombies and he gets eaten. Too implausible
- At Yonkers, the airspace is crowded with all sorts of aircraft, from news choppers to helicopter gunships. Two news helicopters end up colliding in mid-air amid the chaos. Plot happens
- The Chinese submarine gets an anti-ship missile fired at it while surfaced. The missile ends up going for a nearby tanker ship since it offered a bigger radar cross-section for the missile to lock on to. Plot happens
- At Yonkers, far from headshots being 100% effective, some zombies survive being shot in the head because the bullet did not penetrate the brain. Too implausible
Edited by CelestialDraco on Oct 13th 2024 at 8:28:53 AM
![]()
this is a little premature to remove it ~Celestial Draco imo
- Refugees try fleeing to safe zones without any plan that kills them — How is this plot happens? it is stated multiple times a ton of refugees do not plan long term and it kills them
- Japanese otaku bedsheet — It IS an outcome because his plan to tie bedsheets together and escape like a prisoner does not take into account the arm strength needed and his weak nerd ass tires and falls into a balcony
- Helicopter Blender — How is this plot happens? The pilot tries to do something cool and just crashes.
- CIA director — It IS an outcome because the CIA's failure in the Second Gulf War lead directly to a purge that stopped the US from taking reports of the outbreak seriously
- Ponytail guy with hockey stick and roller blades — Not implausible because it's stated everyone watching it knew it was a really stupid move to speed along unarmored, on a crash-prone transport and with hair grabbable by zombies. Paris Hilton explicitly calls him a dumbass and the narrator agrees
- News choppers — How is this plot happens? it is stated repeatedly the military called in a bunch of news vehicles, and the two helicopters crashing are shown to be the outcome of a military crowding the airspace in an attempt to look good for propaganda
- Headshots — How is this too implausible? Bullets failing to penetrate is an IRL thing
Refugees try fleeing to safe zones without any plan that kills them- Why should we have expected something otherwise from happening. Did it play out like they would survive?
Otaku- OK, I admit I misread that "Japanese otaku bedsheet" thing.
Helicopter Blender - It doesn't make that trope clear. Expand on that and make clear the usual outcome.
CIA director- No, it's not. It's a character explaining something.
Ponytail guy with hockey stick and roller blades - Ok, I admit that's not exactly implausible. However, it's not exactly surprising if everyone knew how stupid it would and the narrative didn't act like he would succeed.
News choppers- Why should we have expected another outcome.
Headshots - Because it involves zombies.
Edited by CelestialDraco on Oct 14th 2024 at 2:05:55 PM
Refugees — yes. the characters note that in movies the characters survive fleeing somewhere safe and never take into account logistics, on top of being a meta commentary on how many survivors in zombie movies escape somewhere and it is a happy ending despite having no supplies.
Helicopter Blender — the expected outcome: "zombies get mulched", especially since it happens several times in zombie movies. what actually happens: helicopter meets the ground because physics do not work that way
CIA Director — the CIA being defunded while everyone thought they were mega masterminds lead to the zombie outbreaks hitting the US because everyone expected them to know
Ponytail guy — the person commentating is a combat vet and it's stated a lot of civilians were doing 'cool shit' for the cameras because they didnt know any better, especially since the ponytail guy in question kills a few zombies until he crashes
News choppers — expectation: helicopters swirl dramatically around like in the movies, which is something the military was trying to whip up for propaganda. reality: the viewpoint narrator notes this is why you do NOT have multiple helicopters in one space as he watches them slam together
still not getting the reasoning for headshots. that is not solely a zombie thing. it happens IRL and it is included in WWZ because that happens IRL as opposed to the military thinking their weapons would kill them
Edited by MsOranjeDiscoDancer on Oct 14th 2024 at 12:20:03 PM
i may be dead inside but at least i have Mystery :,)Well, than I supposed you can re-add them, but do expand on certain points. Like adding a Helicopter Blender link to that one example so the readers will know what trope is being subverted or adding the details you put here (News choppers) to the SRP examples.
Edited by CelestialDraco on Oct 14th 2024 at 2:32:06 PM
Hello, it's been a while. I've noticed that this thread seems to be progressing rather slowly, so I'd like to suggest a more comprehensive rewrite of the OP to make the project more accessible to average tropers. ~lalalei2001 Could you swap this in?
SurprisinglyRealisticOutcome, previously called RealityEnsues, is one of the most heavily misused tropes this site has ever had, having gone to the Administrivia/TropeRepairShop twice ([[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1586665412072915200]] [[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1640629424067850200]]) and TropeTalk once ([[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=16429541440A45704100]]) before settling into its current state of having to receive constant cleanup.
[[folder:History]]
Before being disambiguated, RealityEnsues was one of the site's oldest tropes, having started in 2008 as "an event breaks conventions to feature realistic consequences/results not typically featured in fiction." However, it gradually became one of the most infamous cases of TropeDecay the site had ever seen over the years as people shoehorned in any moment or feature that they could remotely construe as realistic, causing the trope to become extremely over-bloated with over 17,000 wicks by the time it first went to TRS despite only describing a scenario that should be ''rare'' by definition. This decay was retroactively attributed to the easily misinterpreted name; if we interpret "Reality" as referring to the fictional work's reality, "Reality Ensues" would describe ''everything'' that ever happens in a work of fiction, thus making the trope [[Administrivia/PeopleSitOnChairs meaningless]]. In addition, many tropers saw excess use of this trope as a badge of honor for a series unafraid to be dark, impactful, and gritty, which exacerbated the problem even more.
These issues finally came to a head in 2019 when RealityEnsues went to TRS after a wick check found misuse to outnumber valid examples 30-40 to 1. After discussion, tropers agreed to drop the "broken convention" aspect of the trope and rename it SurprisinglyRealisticOutcome to improve clarity. However, after the cleanup began, it soon became apparent that instead of properly reviewing examples, tropers were mass-moving them to the new name with no regard for whether they even fit the new definition, and the cleanup soon [[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=16727899530A61886700 became regarded]] as the textbook example of botched TRS work. Despite removing nearly half of the examples, SRO was still in JustForFun/OverdosedTropes with over 10,000 examples by the time RealityEnsues wick migration finished. This cleanup thread, which predates the TRS efforts by nearly two years, noticed the problem and took it to TRS a second time, which eventually turned into a TropeTalk discussion that finally fleshed out SRO with an actual description and established clear, concise criteria for judging examples. After that, cleanup began intermittently, eventually deleting nearly all the subpages and getting SRO below the JustForFun/OverdosedTropes threshold; active cleanup continues.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Cleanup instructions]]
Due to the strict rules codified on the trope page, old SRO examples are typically [[SturgeonsLaw nearly all misuse]]. To avoid clogging this thread, only pages with lots of them or ones with reasonable doubt over their validity should be discussed here. Examples that blatantly violate the rules should be deleted on sight.
Many StockPhrases used in this thread describe particular types of misuse encountered frequently:
* '''Not surprising.''' -- The outcome described isn't a BaitAndSwitch and merely follows expected genre conventions.
** Note that SRO can't be ''common'' in any fiction, as realistic events being surprising requires that they be rare. They might be unexpected at first if they keep happening, but they would eventually become expected; SRO being "common" in media is an oxymoron.
* '''Plot happens.''' -- The example merely describes an event or series of events but not why people typically expect something different.
* '''{{Deconstruction}} / GenreDeconstruction / DeconstructedTrope / DeconstructedCharacterArchetype shoehorn.''' -- The example is a deconstruction of some type misplaced under SRO.
* '''Too fantastical.''' -- The causes/outcome includes stuff NoRealLife/ImpossibleInRealLife such as AppliedPhlebotinum, FunctionalMagic, ScienceFiction, etc., meaning they're too unrealistic by default.
* '''Character reaction.''' -- The outcome involves a character reacting in a certain way or having certain emotions, which we can't gauge the realism of because people's emotional reactions vary far too much.
* '''Not realistic.''' -- The supposed "realistic" outcome isn't legitimately realistic; using this phrase requires you to describe why it isn't realistic.
* '''Too implausible.''' -- The outcome describes an outcome that happened because of things too unlikely to count as relatively realistic compared to what they were subverting.
* '''Cuttable ZCE.''' -- The example is a Administrivia/ZeroContextExample, which can be cut unilaterally in a cleanup.
* '''Not an outcome.''' -- The example is a DiscussedTrope, LampshadeHanging, ConversationalTroping, something that happens over too much time to be momentary, a general feature of the setting, or is otherwise not a singular event.
* '''Too unclear.''' -- The example is too convoluted or obtuse to judge.
* '''Irrelevant.''' -- The example describes stuff utterly irrelevant to the definition of SRO.
[[/folder]]
Add a title. Stay safe; stay well. Live beyond… memento vivere! Should intermittent vengeance arm again his red right hand to plague us?
You were supposed to preserve the original OP in a folder at the bottom. It's archived at https://archive.is/Nw92G
for reference.
Edited by Idiosyncratic on Oct 18th 2024 at 2:04:58 PM
Add a title. Stay safe; stay well. Live beyond… memento vivere! Should intermittent vengeance arm again his red right hand to plague us?Oops. Fixing!
EDIT: Did that too :)
Edited by lalalei2001 on Oct 18th 2024 at 2:06:37 PM
The Protomen enhanced my life.From Ready or Not:
- Surprisingly Realistic Outcome: The game!
- Wearing a gas mask or a ballistic face shield will muffle your voice, making your shouts harder to hear beyond a few feet, and therefore making it more difficult to shout down suspects.
- C2 explosives will blow in a door and kill anyone on the other side, but if there's a booby trap on the door, it will also set off the booby trap. If it's a grenade, the explosive force will shred half the room (and probably you and your team).
- Steel armor provides solid protection and doesn't degrade, but it's heavy. It will take you a few crucial half-seconds to start and stop moving as a result of momentum.
- 40mm grenades are all less-lethal, but shooting someone with the grenade will kill them dead. Unless they're wearing body armor, in which case it will knock them out (but if you're too close, it will still kill them).
- Shooting an unsuppressed weapon will alert everyone on the map, unless they're in a location that's acoustically isolated from the rest of the map. Best seen on the "Valley of the Dolls" map: if you get into a firefight outside the home theater, you can still open the doors and surprise anyone inside because they didn't hear a damn thing.
- Suspects will weigh the pros and cons of surrendering based on what's happening. If they're unable to see due to gas, a flashbang, or a stinger, they will likely surrender, for example. But they will also consider their odds: if they're not actively shooting, they will consider how many guns are pointed at them, and if they think they can shoot their way out, they will. This is most likely to happen if there's only one gun pointed at them, but if there's two or more guns, they're more likely to surrender.
- Suspects can be wearing armor or other protection, which not only affects the bullets you should use (AP for armor wearing suspects, JHP for unarmored suspects), but also what grenades you should use. Suspects wearing sunglasses are barely affected by flashbangs, suspects wearing armor shrug off stinger grenades, and suspects wearing masks ignore CS gas.
All of these examples are describing gameplay mechanics that are sensible inclusions for a Tactical Shooter that aims for realism and heavy attention to detail, with no attempt made to describe why we should expect differently. I don't think any of these examples are valid for that reason, and don't fit under Unexpectedly Realistic Gameplay either.
- All Rise: Emily advocating for a fair trial for her cases would usually be seen in a good light in other Law Procedurals. Problem is, she only adds more to the backlog of cases that could easily be done away with a signature, thus causing even more trouble at the DA's office and eventually at the Public Defender's office as well. Valid
- American Vandal: The series follows a high school student, Peter, making a documentary series to expose the truth on whether or not school troublemaker Dylan has vandalized the teachers' cars. On the documentary, he comes clean about several secrets surrounding the school, including the history teacher's creepy comments about a student and other teachers, the existence of a female student's (Sara Pearson) hook up list, various cases of infidelity among student couples, etc. Although this just seems like incidentally juicy gossip to put in the documentary, when it goes public, it actually has serious repercussions in the lives of those featured: the couples break up, the history teacher is fired, many who had their secrets brought up are mad at the documentarist who was briefly suspended due to making the documentary, and for bringing the school's dirty laundry into the light. When Sara gives Peter a “The Reason You Suck” Speech about how her father watched the documentary and now knows about her list, with how she and her personal life had little to do with the vandalism case in the first place, he insists in keeping the speech in the documentary because he feels that he deserves it. Not an outcome
- Angel:
- In "The Thin Dead Line", Wesley is shot in the gut and lands in a wheelchair. In the episode "Reprise", when Angel, going through a Knight Templar phase and having fired his staff, goes to their office to get some research material, Cordelia refuses to let him have it, even when it becomes clear that he will use force to take it if he has to. Eventually, Wesley rises from his wheelchair and tells Cordelia to just give Angel a book so they can get him out of their office... and immediately after, he collapses back into the chair and has to be taken back to the hospital because he tore open his stitched-up wound. Valid
- In "Not Fade Away", Lindsey has a big showdown planned with the eponymous hero, only to be outraged when he's shot and killed by sidekick Lorne. Turns out that tropes like Arch-Enemy and The Only One Allowed to Defeat You make great fiction but life seldom turns out that way. "Goodnight, folks." Valid
- Arrested Development: During the second season, a subplot has Tobias separated from his family so he attempts to remain in touch by dressing up as a nanny a la Mrs. Doubtfire. All of the Bluths immediately recognize that it's him in disguise, and the only reason he's able to get away with it is because they decide to humor him, especially since he's at least doing housework this way. In his nanny disguise, he also attempts to emulate Mary Poppins and float down a floor of stairs with an umbrella in front of his daughter Maebe. He ends up crashing into furniture and nearly breaking his hip. Valid
- Arrowverse: Much like the comic books it is based on, the Arrowverse generally runs on Rule of Cool and Acceptable Breaks from Reality, but also likes to examine the realistic consequences of fantastic events.
- Arrow:
- At the end of the first season, Detective Lance reveals to his superiors that he has been working with the title vigilante and assures them the hero can be trusted. He's promptly suspended and relieved of his badge and gun. In season 2, he is demoted to patrol officer and when he reveals to a superior that he is still in contact with the vigilante, he is promptly arrested. Valid
- The season 2 episode "Birds of Prey" does this to The Worf Effect/Took a Level in Badass. In their first fight, Helena beats the Black Canary and throws her out of a window. In their second fight where Black Canary decides not to hold back... Helena gets her ass kicked and is in a choke hold in about 10 seconds flat. Remember, kids, fighting skill means little against a trained assassin who let you win! Not surprising
- In the third season, in response to Sara being murdered, Laurel makes use of her self-defense lessons and attempts to become a vigilante. In her first mission, she attacks a known domestic abuser, and promptly gets overpowered, beaten up and hospitalized for her trouble. Valid
- The Season 3 finale shows that, no matter how trained the members of the League of Assassins are with their bows and swords, in a world where superpowered beings are real, they are hopelessly outclassed, as demonstrated in Barry's Big Damn Heroes moment, when he storms Nanda Parbat and disarms and incapacitates all the assassins in the fortress before they can figure out what's happening. Too implausible
- Throughout season 4, Damien Darhk uses his position as leader of HIVE to indulge in threats, embrace the use of magic and randomly kill any underling or even fellow HIVE "board member" who makes him the least bit upset while using their resources in his attempt to take over Star City. When Damien is arrested and jailed, he assumes HIVE will bust him out, only to be informed that the organization has decided a magic addicted lunatic who kills his own people without good cause isn't the best person to have in charge and they can manage quite nicely without him. Likewise, despite being a powerful mystic, he can still be caught off-guard by an attack from behind. Character reaction and too implausible
- Also from Season 4, despite Starling City being renamed to the comic-accurate name "Star City", the rebranding doesn't solve the problem caused by the deaths of the last three mayors (at the start of Season 2, again at the end of that same season, and at the end of Season 3) and the events of the finales of the first three seasons (an earthquake machine used to level part of the city, Deathstroke laying siege with an army of Super Soldiers, and Ra's al Ghul unleashing the Alpha/Omega virus), which are causing people to leave the city in droves. Unsure
- Yet another season 4 example. After Lyla confirms in "AWOL" that Amanda Waller is cold-blooded enough to let every agent under her command die instead of negotiating with the men holding them hostage, the hostage-takers simply kill Waller and start bargaining with Lyla instead. Character reaction
- After his disappearance, Ray leaves Palmer Technologies in the hands of Felicity Smoak, his VP and ex-girlfriend who is a fellow tech genius and widely considered the best hacker on the planet. However, Ray's disappearance means the company is on the verge of bankruptcy and Felicity struggles to adjust to being CEO of a tech conglomerate, which requires her to actually be present at the company to address the Board of Directors' concerns with her leadership and conflicts with her duties to Team Arrow. As a result, she's eventually forced out of the position in disgrace. Valid
- In season 5, when District Attorney Adrian Chase is revealed to be the murderous Prometheus, Oliver faces a nightmare scenario: When it gets out that the Star City D.A. is a psychopathic killer, every criminal Chase put in jail has their convictions overturned and put back out on the street. Unsure
- The Flash (2014):
- All throughout the first season, Barry and his friends have been imprisoning superpowered criminals in their secret prison inside S.T.A.R. Labs, since ordinary jails are not capable of handling them. Late in the season, they realize that S.T.A.R. Labs is no longer secure and they have to transfer the supervillains to another prison. When Detective Joe West reaches out to his friend, District Attorney Cecile Horton, to get help with the transfer, she gets very upset, informs him that holding these people without any kind of hearing is a crime, and that he should stop talking to her about it, since she may have to prosecute him for it. It's a nice touch of reality for a superhero show, especially considering this has got to be the most Willing Suspension of Disbelief show in the entire Arrowverse. From Season 2 onwards, to avoid such a dilemma again, the captured supervillains are handed over to the law to prosecute and the team has helped build prisons to properly contain them. Deconstruction
- When the guys try to hide from Caitlin/Killer Frost behind a blast door at the lab, she just opens it with the hand scanner. Being taken over by her Superpowered Evil Side didn't magically revoke her security privileges, which she points out. Valid
- The Thinker's satellite is punched apart at the end of Season 4 by the Flash and XS. The falling pieces cause collateral damage and severely injure the man who becomes one version of Cicada and his niece. Valid
- Supergirl (2015):
- In one episode, Cat Grant is very reluctant on publishing a story by Siobhan Smythe over Supergirl going rogue. Siobhan goes behind Cat's back and heads for the Daily Planet trying to sell the story to Perry White. Perry, however, is not J. Jonah Jameson and he calls up Cat to let her know what Siobhan did. This results in Cat tearing Siobhan a new one and firing her. Valid
- When Kara starts dating one of her coworkers (and he gleefully announces it to everyone), she is immediately informed that they have to go down to HR, fill out the proper forms in triplicate, and attend a mandatory sexual harassment seminar. Valid
Kara: We have an HR?
- Legends of Tomorrow:
- Before the final confrontation between the Legion and the Legends, Thawne gives Merlyn and Darhk futuristic laser guns. They both quickly realize that the guns are cool but useless in the hands of two people who don't know how to use them, and they quickly switch back to the weapons they actually know how to use. Valid
- Rip Hunter, while a badass in his own right, is no match for someone like Sara. So, when he gets brainwashed and meets up with her, what does he do? He just shoots her at point-blank range. Combat Pragmatist
- When the Legends temporarily disband and return to normal life, Sara and Ray are working quite humiliating and menial jobs. Sara's only employments as an adult were an assassin and then captain of a time-traveling band of misfits—neither of which give you a sterling resume. Ray is at least working in tech, but as a low-level software engineer, despite having been CEO of an extremely innovative tech giant. Turns out, disappearing and leaving your company to your ex-girlfriend, who was soon fired and left it in ruins, tends to leave your reputation in tatters. Second half sounds valid
- The Legends reform and offer to help the Time Bureau. However, their erratic approach to fixing problems with time, along with their recklessness being responsible for the time crash that necessitated the creation of the Time Bureau, means that they're seen as a joke at best and dangerous liabilities at worst, and not allowed within a square mile of any time travel work. Character reaction to fantastical event
- Arrow:
- Atlanta:
- Episode 6 has Van going to increasingly desperate lengths to pass a work-mandated drug test after smoking a joint the night before. In the end, she confesses to her boss, who reveals that the test isn't real, since it's understood that most young adults these days have at least tried recreational drugs at some point in their lives. She then fires Van anyway, since even if it's an open secret, you still can't officially tell your employer that you're taking illegal drugs. Valid
- Episode 8 has Paper Boi going to a nightclub run by a sleazy promoter, who then tries to weasel his way out of paying the guys the full amount of money he promised. The guys storm into the club's back office while music plays, with Paper Boi smacking around the promoter until he gives up the money. It's initially treated like a big achievement, but then the episode ends with a news report saying that Paper Boi is now wanted for questioning in an armed robbery case. Valid
- In season 2, both Alfred and Earn are often concerned after whatever wacky/odd situation that someone might call the police, which would cause further problems for them since they're on probation for the aforementioned case. Character reaction
I agree with most of your interpretations. I would cut the one about Adrian Chase from Arrow, though. It's not really that surprising or realistic.
It's not realistic because an attorney committing crimes doesn't automatically invalidate any courtroom work they've done. Lawyers are found to have committed crimes all the time, it would only matter to their court work if their crimes were directly connected to them. "This DA has a tendency to abuse and manipulate suspects into confessing to crimes they didn't commit", that's the kind of lawyer crime that would open up those cases to appeal. "This DA is a vicious serial killer with a vendetta against the man who killed his father" wouldn't cause judges who worked with Chase to go "huh, maybe I should overturn this conviction of a completely unrelated person"
It's also not surprising because "dark secret is known to heroes, and they have no easy choice to make" is a very common thing. It's basically just a Morton's Fork example that someone decided was "reality" for whatever reason.
From Anime.Dragon Ball Daima:
- Unlike Dragon Ball GT, where Goku was able to use his new child body almost immediately, here Goku and the others have some trouble adjusting to the equilibrium and balance of weight of their new bodies. Being forced into a much smaller and weaker body after decades of training and fighting in an adult body isn't something that can be instantly be managed, and it takes several days of training for Goku and the others to get used to fighting in their new forms. — Too implausible since the change is done via magic. Not valid?
From Film.Sonic The Hedgehog 22022:
- Surprisingly Realistic Outcome:
- Played for Laughs. Early on, shortly after arriving to save Sonic from Knuckles, Tails asks if the hedgehog trusts him to do something dangerous. — Character reaction. Not valid.
Sonic: Of course not! I literally just met you!
- While Sonic was extremely badass in the first film, the primary reason he had a relatively easy time handling any problems that came his way was because of his Super-Speed, which made humans and conventional weapons nearly-useless against him unless you took him by surprise. Otherwise, he demonstrated very little actual skill in fighting. Thus when he goes up against Knuckles, who can keep up with Sonic (to an extent) and explicitly has Super-Strength and years of training, Sonic gets absolutely creamed in their first confrontation and is only saved by Tails' unexpected rescue. When they fight again later, Sonic has to rely on his superior speed to fend Knuckles off and avoid being hit in return. — Partial Uniqueness Decay, partial fantastic super powers, so not valid?
- Later on, when Sonic needs to run across the ocean to catch up with Knuckles and Eggman, he does well for a while. That is, until he finds out the hard way that while the water may be perfectly flat by the shore, the further you go out to sea, the stronger the waves become. — Too fantastical since it's impossible to run across water normally?
- Robotnik was only able to build all of his fantastic machines not with Offscreen Villain Dark Matter but with funding and connections from the US military. When he betrays the government, they immediately freeze all of his assets and have his hideout surrounded within a few days. Had Robotnik not had the Master Emerald's power, he would have been screwed. — Too fantastical?
Walters: You're finished, Robotnik! We've taken everything; your lab, your drones, your funding! Let's see how big of a man you are without your silly little robots!
- In Siberia, Tails gets knocked out from a missile explosion. It takes him quite some time to wake up, especially without immediate medical care, and even when he does, he’s still in no shape to fly to catch up or otherwise help Sonic in the latter’s final fight with Knuckles. It’s not until the final battle that he fully recovers. — Is this just Drama-Preserving Handicap?
- While Knuckles has tremendous Super-Strength, when he’s unexpectedly pinned underwater by a fallen pillar, he can’t lift it off himself due to having no leverage or way to brace himself, as well as the risk of drowning from the rising waters, and thus would have drowned without Sonic’s help. — Valid?
- Sonic's Destructive Saviour acts causes the government to label him a danger and order G.U.N. to capture him. — Valid or technically plot/character reaction?
- Played for Laughs. Early on, shortly after arriving to save Sonic from Knuckles, Tails asks if the hedgehog trusts him to do something dangerous. — Character reaction. Not valid.
5x
: I agree with pretty much all your assessments on the examples from Ready or Not. Some of these would not be SRO even if RoN wasn't a realism-heavy tactical shooter. (Metal armor slows you down? A lot of RPGs stimulate that, so I would not consider that surprising.) "Masks make it harder to tell people to surrender" is somewhat uncommon, but it doesn't seem out-of-place or unusual in a game focused on realism.
Most of these look fine. "Character is weaker after being forced into a much smaller and weaker body", "running on water becomes harder due to waves", and "person with superhuman speed can't compete with someone with superhuman strength as well as speed" all rely on fantastical elements. "Character loses funding for gadgets after betraying the government" doesn't actually seem fantastical to me, though I'm on the fence as to whether that would be surprising. The Tails example does seem closer to Drama-Preserving Handicap, though I think it would need to be rewritten. The one for Destructive Savior tendencies does seem more like character reaction/plot, because I can imagine a number of ways for a government to respond to a Destructive Savior type, such as overlooking the "destructive" part to focus on "savior" aspects.
Thanks, of the ones from my post I only kept the following for Film.Sonic The Hedgehog 22022 (per here
):
- Surprisingly Realistic Outcome:
- Robotnik was only able to build all of his fantastic machines not with Offscreen Villain Dark Matter but with funding and connections from the US military. When he betrays the government, they immediately freeze all of his assets and have his hideout surrounded within a few days. If Robotnik didn't have the Master Emerald's power, he would have been screwed.
Walters: You're finished, Robotnik! We've taken everything; your lab, your drones, your funding! Let's see how big of a man you are without your silly little robots!
- While Knuckles has tremendous Super-Strength, when he’s unexpectedly pinned underwater by a fallen pillar, he can’t lift it off himself due to having no leverage or way to brace himself, as well as the risk of drowning from the rising waters, and thus would have drowned without Sonic’s help.
- Robotnik was only able to build all of his fantastic machines not with Offscreen Villain Dark Matter but with funding and connections from the US military. When he betrays the government, they immediately freeze all of his assets and have his hideout surrounded within a few days. If Robotnik didn't have the Master Emerald's power, he would have been screwed.
I cut the rest and reworked the other bits. We can come back to the first point I kept if someone else has an objection
From Spec Ops: The Line. The game is well-known for being a serious examination of the 'modern military shooter' genre, so this trope seems like it would naturally apply somewhere, but...
- Surprisingly Realistic Outcome: As part of the game's Deconstructor Fleet project. For example, a key part of what makes the white phosphorus scene so horrifying is just how realistic it is in comparison to most shooters.
- However, given that 60mm WP mineas portrayed to have same power, as 155mm shells, one would say that outcome was exagerrated to be more deconstructive.
On the topic, I don't think the White Phosphorous scene would be an example anyhow. The shock of the scene doesn't come from it being more 'realistic' than the AC-130 - in fact, the AC-130 is already pretty dang authentic in its presentation. Instead, the shock comes from you being forced to witness the consequences of your actions in a far more personal and intimate manner. It's a storytelling subversion, not a realism one.
Edited by Dramatic on Dec 8th 2024 at 4:39:35 AM
Def cut. SRO description deliberately calls out Deconstructions and by extension Deconstructor Fleet type works as not examples of SRO.
A few entries on Total War:
- Surprisingly Realistic Outcome:
- More than half of the failed assassination/infiltration videos involve the would-be assassins/spies getting caught doing something fairly obvious and getting killed instantly. Especially notable in Shogun 2 with one of the geisha assassinations, where the geisha approaches two guards with polearms armed with two very short daggers. If successful, she kills both of them, while if unsuccessful....
- This extends to the battles themselves, especially given certain conditions: the enemy commander may be intimidating and legendary but all it takes is for a well-timed charge or a lucky shot...
- If you surround an enemy force out on the battlefield, they won't give up, but instead fight with all they've got to try to get away.
Easy cuts on all three.
- Honor Harrington: Honor is made a countess after the events of The Honor of the Queen but is never seated in the House of Lords, still being on active duty at the time. The first time she does take her seat is at the climax of Field of Dishonor, where rather than take part in the business of government, she uses it as a chance to challenge her enemy Pavel Young, Earl North Hollow, to a Duel to the Death for his part in the murder of her boyfriend (he's been working very hard to avoid her after she killed the actual triggerman in a prior duel). This is also the last time she sits in the House of Lords, as the chamber promptly votes to expel her from Parliament for abusing her seat to settle a personal matter (although Honor doesn't care overmuch). It also leads to her becoming persona non grata in the Navy for the next book. Even when you're the protagonist, actions have consequences.
Isn't the vote of a parliamentary body just a collective character reaction?
Edited by underCoverSailsman on Dec 13th 2024 at 1:15:21 PM

That sounds more like Bait-and-Switch.