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CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#1726: Jan 12th 2020 at 5:30:19 PM

[up] The thing is, Salem's also chosen not to engage Ozpin in the open. This whole thing being a secret was only possible because of both of them. Ozpin forewent a huge number of advantages by going it alone like he did.

Edited by CaptainCapsase on Jan 12th 2020 at 8:32:38 AM

Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#1727: Jan 12th 2020 at 8:55:33 PM

Which is true, yet Salem hearing that Ozpin was back so soon was enough to get her to completely change her plans and to take matters into her own hands given Hazel's line in Volume 6's stinger. And that was before Ironwood openly revealed her existence. Why hold back now? Especially as if she can destroy the new CCT before it goes operational Vacuo will remain in the dark about her existence.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#1728: Jan 12th 2020 at 9:17:41 PM

[up] Well the problem for Salem is the longer this drags out in the open, the worse things are for her; if communications come back up, Ozpin can more or less count on all the world's governments, their militaries (Atlas is the only one with a standing peace time army, but the rest maintain reserves), and the thousands of huntsmen trained at his academies. Salem has WTCH+MEN and that's about it, however ridiculously powerful she is she's just one person, and the odds that someone will think of some way to subdue her that's more or less permanent or even find some way to kill her goes through the roof when tens of thousands of people, including the world's most brilliant minds are thinking about the problem.


Salem's reaction wasn't just to Ozpin being back, it was to Ozpin being back and bringing the relic of knowledge to Atlas. The plan there meanwhile was very much the same cloak and dagger tactics she's used before.

Edited by CaptainCapsase on Jan 12th 2020 at 12:28:56 PM

Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#1729: Jan 12th 2020 at 10:13:16 PM

All of this builds a case for her getting involved in Atlas and burning everything down before they can get the word out. Right now with the Amity Tower uncompleted everyone who knows about Salem bar Shade's headmaster are in Atlas and Mantle, and isolated by the terrain from the rest of the world. And with Atlas' borders closed to the rest of the world there'd be no one to notice if/when the fall happens.

Truthfully I'm hard pressed to see an outcome that doesn't involve Salem's involvement. The relic needs to be stolen for Salem's goals to have a chance at being achieved, and unless both Watts and Tyrian get away and are in a position to do something there's no one else who could act as the big bad for the Atlas arc.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#1730: Jan 12th 2020 at 10:41:29 PM

[up] Well, the thing is there really NEEDS to be a reason why Salem can't just command the Grimm to swarm the kingdoms en masse without the need to stir up panic. If that isn't the case then the show's entire story becomes an Idiot Plot where the only reason the villain didn't win is because the plot didn't allow them to do something blindingly obvious. Now, if that's the case, it becomes an Idiot Plot on the heroes side, but at least there you can make the argument that Oz is (if not on a conscious level) more concerned about covering up his own perceived failures than protecting the world.


So I'm still thinking something prevents Salem from actually traveling to human settlements to lead attacks on them in person, even if she isn't literally stuck in Evernight.

Edited by CaptainCapsase on Jan 13th 2020 at 12:45:51 PM

VutherA Since: Jul, 2009
#1731: Jan 12th 2020 at 10:47:00 PM

Arthur: "Hah, foolish Irondaddywood tipped his hand."

Ironwood: "HAH, IT WAS ALL A PLOY!"

Arthur: "NO YOU, I CAN CONTROL AMITY BACK"

MAN I CANNOT WAIT FOR THAT FIGHT.

Edited by VutherA on Jan 12th 2020 at 1:55:21 PM

gjjones Musician/Composer from South Wales, New York Since: Jul, 2016
Musician/Composer
#1732: Jan 13th 2020 at 5:36:26 PM

Anyway, while the Atlesian council and Robyn are quite skeptical of Ironwood's secrets, they are outraged to learn of Jacques's treachery and Watts's election rigging. Would that fit under the Everyone Has Standards trope?

[down] Thanks. I've corrected it.

Edited by gjjones on Jan 14th 2020 at 3:04:40 PM

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
TheAirman Brightness from The vicinity of an area adjacent to a location Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Brightness
#1733: Jan 13th 2020 at 6:06:57 PM

Appalled is hardly hardly how I'd describe his reaction. Both to the attack itself and to the council charging him.

Actually, we never see his reaction to it. Just him protesting his innocence after Ironwood dresses him down about the attack. As for Watts shutting down Mantle's heating, Jacques actively hides the information that it's happening (and his connection to it) instead of doing literally anything; and tries to paint himself as a victim when the rest of the room gets message of it.

Edited by TheAirman on Jan 13th 2020 at 8:24:15 AM

PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/They
gjjones Musician/Composer from South Wales, New York Since: Jul, 2016
Musician/Composer
#1734: Jan 14th 2020 at 2:58:46 AM

Also, throughout his appearances, Jacques gets away a lot of his evil actions such as his disregard towards the SDC workers, his plans to steal the election so that he can become a councilor, as well as his abusive behavior towards his wife and children, karma does eventually catch up to him when Jacques is arrested.

As per the Karma Houdini Warranty trope page: "Certain circumstances and actions taken can result in the vicious delayed retribution of Karma, related phenomena, and even their own mistakes." Does this example fit this trope?

And I've got a feeling that the SDC might get shut down or restructured, given that Jacques is led away into a paddy wagon the last time we see him in "As Above, So Below". I could be wrong.

Edited by gjjones on Jan 14th 2020 at 6:40:25 AM

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
bandersnitch Since: Aug, 2016
#1735: Jan 14th 2020 at 3:27:20 PM

[up][up]Jacques didn't hide that Watts shut down the heating. The waiter told him that access was blocked. Jacques didn't believe that and told him to check again. It was only once his phone rung that he realized what just happened and he came clean immediately. And he was horrified at the implication that Mantle could freeze to death and that he had connection to Tyrian's murders.

Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#1736: Jan 14th 2020 at 4:19:21 PM

So he came clean when he was confronted and cornered and had no means of deflection. After he had already tried denying his own wrong doing then tried to literally run away from his problems.

It's not coming clean if you're being forced into it.

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#1737: Jan 14th 2020 at 4:36:41 PM

Well they might have had a better clue if Ozpin had told them his concerns.

He did. They dismissed them.

Their reactions then met his previously stated predictions.

My current prediction based off Volumes 8 and 9 being developed together is that Volume 8 is the siege of Atlas with Salem and the Grimm and any of her agents who aren't taken off the board this volume against whatever we're calling the heroes now (let's call them RWBYJNRQOPMIWCEMVH for this instance only), and volume 9 is the fall of Atlas (either it falls at the end of Volume 8 and 9 is the fallout or it falls at the start of 9 and the rest is the fallout). With only three episodes left of this volume and a lack of build up I don't see Cinder stealing the winter maiden's powers AND breaking into the vault AND stealing the staff by the end.

I'm expecting something similar. Volume 7 was basically about Mantle (and, I believe, the Relic of Knowledge). Volume 8 will be about Atlas, the Winter Maiden and the Relic of Creation. Volume 9 will be fallout.

There's been a lot of talk in the show about sending Amity Tower higher than anyone's ever gone before to outfly the Grimm, that Atlas could potentially achieve limitless height if the Staff is powering it, and again with comments about flying higher than the Grimm.

So, we know a couple of things: Dust and the Grimm have altitude limits. Magic potentially does not (and I — among others — have theorised for quite some time that Humanity Prime had satellite technology; it's Humanity Revised which hasn't achieved that). However, Salem has created a new Grimm (a Beringel/Nevermore hybrid) with magic, which raises the question of whether she can break the height limitation of the Grimm.

I'm therefore expecting an attempt to fly high enough to avoid the Grimm only for the new Grimm to break that limit and reach them anyway. If Atlas is going to fall, I don't think it'll be from the height it's currently at — I think we'll see them fly the city highter to begin with so that the height of the fall will potentially be far greater than it currently is.

Regarding Cinder, she still doesn't know where the Winter Maiden is, so all we really have is that she's now going to begin searching for the location of the Winter Maiden while Neo goes after Oscar.

Oscar's been set up since the beginning of the volume to get into trouble over the Relic of Knowledge, especially with Ruby saying she knows he'll keep it safe and Oscar admitting that he's feeling left behind as his (already older and more experienced) companions continue to evolve their abilities right in front of his eyes.

So, the volume always looked like it was going to build-up to Oscar and the fate of the Relic of Knowledge. I think Cinder will locate the Winter Maiden at the end of the volume but, to be honest, Volume 7 is setting up Fria's death for the end of the volume. Cinder's threat will therefore be towards the new Winter Maiden in Volume 8.

The four primary candidates for becoming the new Maiden are Winter, Robyn, Nora and Neo. Winter's been set up as a red herring — chosen but destined to not receive it or be killed soon after receiving it. Robyn's age is at the boundary for Maiden eligibility, so she has an eligibility question.

That leaves Nora and Neo who are the two most likely 'twist' options — with Neo being the bigger twist than Nora as Nora is clearly being set up for some kind of personal story reveal in the Atlas Arc.

I consider both Nora and Neo to be more interesting options for Winter Maiden than either Winter or Robyn.

Salem's reaction wasn't just to Ozpin being back, it was to Ozpin being back and bringing the relic of knowledge to Atlas.

Well, technically, it was to the idea of Ozpin and Ironwood reuniting.

Jacques didn't hide that Watts shut down the heating. The waiter told him that access was blocked. Jacques didn't believe that and told him to check again.

It was the use of his authorisation codes that caused Jacques to demand they check again.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Jan 14th 2020 at 12:37:52 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Slater130 Since: Jun, 2013
#1738: Jan 14th 2020 at 6:01:35 PM

RT's whats coming in 2020 video showed a snip of Ironwood fighting Watts.

https://twitter.com/MurderOfBirds_/status/1217198239243558918

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#1739: Jan 14th 2020 at 6:29:36 PM

[up][up] As far as ancient humans having gone to space, the problem with that is that dust is very likely to be the crystallized remains of ancient humanity, which seems to imply that ancient humans' magic was subject to the same limitation of being incapable of working outside of Remnant's atmosphere.*


The staff of creation in contrast is a fragment of divine power, and would seem to be exempt from that limitation. I think Ozpin's interest in space travel comes less from ancient humans having done it and more from it being a potential "out" for a humanity trapped between the Gods' ultimatum and whatever Salem is planning.


From what we've seen so far (which isn't much) from beyond Remnant's atmosphere; the setting seems to adhere to the scientific cosmology; Remnant is an oblate spheroid orbiting a ball of what I presume is white hot hydrogen undergoing nuclear fusion. That implies the existence of other planets, and perhaps an entire universe out there that would seem to be exempt from the Gods' ultimatum...not that I think the Gods would be particularly amused if they came back and found humans living on the Remnant solar system's equivalent of Mars, but one could hope they didn't notice.


* Though in reality this is almost certainly distance from the surface; if it's from leaving the atmosphere than the same effect should be achieved by putting dust in a vacuum chamber at sea level.

Edited by CaptainCapsase on Jan 14th 2020 at 9:43:26 AM

Psyga315 Since: Jan, 2001
#1740: Jan 14th 2020 at 6:51:03 PM

"RWBYJNRQOPMIWCEMVH"

I just call them the Hive Mind.

RebelFalcon ULTRANumb from ... (Private)
#1741: Jan 14th 2020 at 7:17:16 PM

Or, ya know, you can take the easiest option and call them "The Protagonists", or "RWBY, JNR, Oscar, Qrow, Maria, Ironwood, Winter, Penny, Pietro, the Ace Ops, and Robyn". Though the last one is rather wordy.

Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.
Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#1742: Jan 14th 2020 at 7:39:52 PM

I just realised that, given the fandom, there is probably a ship name for that group pairing. And that is several kinds of creepy.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#1743: Jan 15th 2020 at 4:28:36 AM

Cap: I will said the gods create life and stuff IN the planet but NOT the planet, after all there a place when the tale of two brother start.

But them again they blow up a moon by accidently ramming into it, so.....

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#1744: Jan 15th 2020 at 1:15:42 PM

As far as ancient humans having gone to space, the problem with that is that dust is very likely to be the crystallized remains of ancient humanity, which seems to imply that ancient humans' magic was subject to the same limitation of being incapable of working outside of Remnant's atmosphere.*

Well, yes, that's the likely origin of Dust. However, the God of Darkness took back the gift of magic first and then wiped out humanity. The God of Light also made it clear to Ozma that the presence or absence of the gods from Remnant made a huge difference to humanity's abilities. Even if Dust is the crystallised remnants of a Humanity Prime that could still use magic at the time they were obliterated, the implication seems to be that Dust would only be a 'remnant' of Humanity Prime's ability.

When Ozpin talks about the problem with satellite technology, he speaks of it as being a problem that modern man is having. While that's slightly weird upon first hearing, it's easily ignored unless you know there have been two iterations of humanity, at which point his statement becomes more interesting. Jinn heavily implied that the level of technology Humanity Revised was living with when Ozma first reincarnated was much less than what he'd been used to at the time of his original death.

My theory that Humanity Prime might have been satellite-capable comes from a combination of Jinn and the WoR episode, not Jinn alone.

The staff of creation in contrast is a fragment of divine power, and would seem to be exempt from that limitation.

The gift of magic was implied to be a fragment of divine power, too. While I'm not claiming that magic would be equal to the divine power of a Relic, I am saying we need to be cautious about assessing the limitations of Humanity Prime's technological capabilities relative to either Dust or Humanity Revised. All we really know is that Humanity Revised is a remnant of Humanity Prime and exists in a lesser state — we don't yet fully understand what that means, but it's likely that Dust is only part of Humanity Prime jigsaw puzzle rather than the whole.

I just realised that, given the fandom, there is probably a ship name for that group pairing. And that is several kinds of creepy.

As soon as I read this, do you know what ship name popped into my head? The Shining.

  • RWBYJNRQ (and technically Oscar via Ozpin) = Beacon
  • PIWCEMVH = Atlas
  • The academies are supposed to be shining lights of hope for the people of Remnant.
  • Left over name is Maria = Silver Eyes = more shining light.
  • Throw in creepy and you've got The Shining.

So, for that random and unwanted creative spasm... um... thank you, I guess?

But them again they blow up a moon by accidently ramming into it, so.....

I don't interpret that as an accident. The God of Darkness's last words to Salem were about her still believing she could make demands of her creators — he smashed the moon to give her an eternal reminder that she was just a creation of the gods, that the gods can make and break humanity on a mere whim: every time she looks at the sky, that reminder is there staring right back at her (and probably constantly fuelling her rage and desire for freedom in the process). It's a divine 'Fuck you' to Salem.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Jan 15th 2020 at 9:26:07 AM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
TheAirman Brightness from The vicinity of an area adjacent to a location Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Brightness
#1745: Jan 15th 2020 at 2:08:57 PM

Oscar's last name is Pine, so we can still just say JNPR for the main cast as a whole

PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/They
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#1746: Jan 15th 2020 at 4:08:59 PM

[up][up] What we saw of the world in Ozma’s time didn’t really suggest technology that would allow for space travel; nobody in Salem’s army was carrying a firearm, we don’t see any cyborgs or robots, or even things like trains. There wasn’t even cool transforming weapons like in the setting’s modern period. The line from Jinn is that “cities looked different”, which can mean a lot of things; the city Oz was in looked really ramshackle and poor, whereas back in the distant past we saw some pretty nice looking throne rooms, with marble columns and fine tapestries and the like. We also to exterior shots of cities when the Gods dust everyone, and there were no cars, smokestacks, antennae, or other visual hallmarks of modern technology.


In light of that I think “different” from Jinn meant poorer. So if ancient humans traveled to the stars (which raises a But What About the Astronauts? question), I expect they did so via magic instead of technology, but that raises the issue with dust losing potency away from Remnant’s surface.

The only way to explain that being the case for dust but not for ancient humans is if this is by design, but I strongly suspect based on the line about Remnant being a “byproduct of a forgotten age” at the beginning of the series that dust, the Faunus, and possibly humanity’s resurrection weren’t part of the God’s plans.

Edited by CaptainCapsase on Jan 15th 2020 at 11:36:40 AM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#1747: Jan 15th 2020 at 4:45:28 PM

Yeah, huminity 1.0 look more like your typical fantasy setting but with magic to everyone and the gods in it.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#1748: Jan 15th 2020 at 5:05:07 PM

[up] And I like that, it's distinct from how in most fantasy settings technology seems to become LESS advanced the further forwards you go in time.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#1749: Jan 16th 2020 at 12:45:09 AM

Granted, we still dont know much about it to make claims, after all everyone having magic seen to make a pretty damn good thing.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Psyga315 Since: Jan, 2001
#1750: Jan 16th 2020 at 9:25:38 AM

[up][up] Well, I mean, eighty years is a pretty long time for someone to go "you know, maybe we should update the CCT..."


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