To vent just a little, I'm probably one of the only people in this thread who doesn't much care about the fight scenes, which rather excludes me from this discussion and others like it. Really, the most positive reaction a fight scene will get from me is "Ooh, that's neat", not a detailed analysis about how much so-and-so's style has developed in such-and-such ways after [x incident] and what it means for their character. The early volumes were really boring to me because they were very cliche-heavy (though I did immediately like Jaune) and the fights, however Rule of Cool they were objectively, just weren't catching my interest in the way most of the story in the later volumes did. I do generally like the fight scenes post-Volume 4 more than the fight scenes pre-Volume 4, which I'm sure is not a popular position to hold.
So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my Tumblr
I'd like to think you aren't excluded from the discussion. It's perfectly fine to be satisfied with the fight scenes in Volume 4 and afterwards. It is a matter of personal taste and preference.
The only thing that I was bringing up was that there were a lot of people that had a preference for the original premise of the show, which was that zany over the top action.
As to the other points mentioned above![]()
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, there are certainly problems with the extravagant nature of these fight scenes and the unexplained "magic" of Qrow's sword beams, etc. Then again, I don't really blame the fight scenes themselves and the production of the show distilling everything down a little too much. Even in the present day I think we can all agree that the length of episodes could be a bit more substantial. I think the extremely cramped episode formats of Volumes 1-3 made a lot of the inconsistencies (as well as the complete lack of any sort of sensical power-scaling).
@ Psyga: Offscreen Inertia means that, if the character was still alive the last time we see them, they're still alive.
Nach jeder Ebbe kommt die Flut.Eh, I mean that's fine. I just like fight scenes. I do rather like how later Volumes make the fights more meaningful, like when Neo fights Cinder you get that moment where Neo is wearing worn clothing, and Torchwick's hat, and Cinder instantly knows why she's here.
Fight scenes are to you what sex scenes are to me in most films. Spectacular wastes of time that for some reason end up on Youtube and news sites because some weird culture of people go see the movie exclusively for them.
I mean, Offscreen Inertia would apply to Maria and Pietro. People seem to be forgetting they were in the colosseum which was nowhere near Atlas, so they're honestly probably just chilling.
Neon and Flynt I absolutely am assuming to be dead until otherwise shown to be alive.
Count me in as enjoying good fight scenes, but not prioritizing them as the most important thing. I think Haloid and half a Dead Fantasy video were all I had seen of Monty's work before I started RWBY, so the fights in volumes 1 & 2 were a very pleasant surprise; but what got me to actually watch was the charm of the show and Broken Wings punching me in the dick emotionally speaking after I watched the movie cut of volume 1 on Netflix in the middle of a depression episode
Knew nothing about the show other than it had kept showing up on Netflix's "recommended for you" list and I had kept ignoring it because it looked jank as all hell, and a coworker mentioned it after two girls walked by cosplaying Blake and Yang. And then after Volume 1 hooked me I watched volume 2 the next night, was mildly disappointed by the background shadow people being replaced with actual people with designs, and then I found out it was actually a Rooster Teeth series and volume 3 was about to start.
In short, was I let down by the dip in quality of fights? Yes. But they were never the main reason for me to watch, I've very much enjoyed seeing them get better and actually meaningful, and Haven was the only time I outright didn't like them period.
Edited by TheAirman on Mar 31st 2021 at 12:21:48 PM
PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/TheyGiven that RWBY is shaping up to be a Coming of Age Story for all four members of Team RWBY, what are your thoughts about the characters' growth in the Atlas arc?
Edited by gjjones on Mar 31st 2021 at 1:43:41 PM
He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.I just came into V8 expecting something, anything to be great regarding fights. However, even the best of V8's fights were average. At least Raven vs. Cinder was great.
Hopefully Ruby builds off from her arc of doubting herself this volume in V9. Blake needs some kind of arc. Yang needs to stop being so judgmental and critical. Weiss needs to reevaluate her goals now that there may not be an SDC anymore.
Edited by Teamkirin5 on Mar 31st 2021 at 2:09:14 PM
We all have to answer to the call of fate when it beckons us, even if it is not at a moment of our choosing.It's pretty obvious that Vol 9 is the spiritual growth arc. Hell the production team said that the two are almost one volume (that is vols 8 and 9). Vol 8 is the lowest point when things seem bleak and the villains are at their peak. This is the point when the heroes are usually tempted to just go "fuck it" and give up, but ultimately choose to resist and continue fighting.
Vol 9's end is going to see the heroes regain their fire and return in dramatic fashion (it's why I'm also calling that Cinder is going to have her final fall from grace as it were. Seeing Ruby alive is a major kick in the nuts, and if the gang DOES encounter the dead it's pretty obvious Rhodes is going to be one of the people they meet, which may allow Ruby to get under her skin by not only confronting her about her past but showing actual empathy.)
Cinder's at her highest point. There's no way to go but down. Ruby's at her lowest point. There's no way to go but up.
In regards to Penny's death (As well as the above point) a poster on another forum had this to say.
I can see The Island being a "Temptation of Escape". This will probably be the lowest Ruby has ever felt, especially once she learns what happened to Penny. A Magical, far way place's temptation of no more pain, struggle, or strife. A place of safety. And like in many other stories our heroes will have to resist the temptation and carry on.
And in the grand scheme of things...that would fit well with the show's theme of "Keep Moving Forward". You can't move on if you stay in one place, to afraid or tired of the struggle each day and fight brings.
And this kind of stuff is part of why I hope Penny stays Dead Dead. I loved her just like everyone else and I hate to see her go, but at this point having her brought back again would basically go against the above lesson as well as the entire reason everything started in the first place. If our heroes can get their way and keep bringing Penny back then no one in the show has any reason or business telling Salem No. Salem was thrice denied a life with Ozma (once by Light, then by Dark, then by Oz himself) and Penny herself has, technically, died 3 times as well (Death of Innocence back at Beacon, Death of Assigned Self when her virus riddled robot body died, and Death of Actual Self when she chose to die to pass the WMP to Winter).
To me one of the main themes of the show is about coming to terms with the death of loved ones. Death is hard and often times unfair, but it is a part of life we all must deal with and over come. The Xaio-Long-Rose Household nearly fell apart with Summer's disappearance. Jaune was on a dangerous spiral after Pyrrha's death that nearly got him and Weiss killed. And Ruby has been bottling everything up for years and life just keeps dumping stuff on her. She lost her mother before she could really know her. She failed to save Pyrrha and in doing so also ended up failing her first friend from Beacon (Jaune). And Atlas has been one mistake after another and as we saw back at Schnee Manor she has been having increasing trouble finding any hope. Now, lost on a weird island and no idea how to get back and she will likely find out what happened to Penny....she will break. BUT, somehow someway she will have to learn to accept that her friend is dead. Accept that things are VERY BAD right now. Accept that even though things seem hopeless, she is going to have to move forward. Rooster Teeth lost their dear friend and mastermind behind RWBY, Monty, years ago, and yet they have carried on. Many have said they should of just let the show end/die with him, but to RT Monty would of wanted the show to go on. There was still a story to be told, a fight to fight, a message to get out, and they didn't want it to die with him. They have soldiered on and kept moving forward, not for themselves, not for praise or profit, but for the friend taken to soon. For those that were lost, for those still with us, the story goes on. So, let's just live.
This is how I think Ruby and Cinder's rivalry should go from here
1: Ruby can't use the silver eyes against her any more and I don't mean have her lose that ability in general, just not against Cinder in particular. Eg after everything Cinder has done, Ruby just hates her to much for it to be all about protecting people anymore, when dealing with Cinder.
2: Next time they meet, have it be Ruby's beware the nice ones moment. And have that be something she struggles. Have it be that she was pushed to far and is becoming perilously close to becoming something she's not. Ultimately she dosn't end up becoming that of course, but she skirts so close to crossing that line, that she actualy ends up being shaken by her own actions.
Yeah that's a tad cliche, but that's often the ultimate test for the kind of hero Ruby is meant to be
Edited by Gaogaigar54 on Apr 1st 2021 at 5:19:24 AM
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I'd be willing to accept Penny's death if it wasn't such a complete waste. Her death is quite frankly extremely contrived since the only reason it could happen was by making her human, and the only reason she was made "human" was because of a leap of faith when using Ambrosius. And as I've said before, there was no point to making her physically human other than making her easier to kill.
Add on the fact that it would pretty much be ignoring the plot point of Ambrosius not even knowing what Penny would become since she'd be "A soul without a complete body" and not even being sure "how much the old Penny would be [his] work and how much would be her?" then her being Killed Off for Real is one of the dumber moves in the Volume.
Also, I have to disagree with you on one thing. While yes, the show's theme has been "Keep Moving Forward", it's honestly become more about deconstructing the theme. Monty's motto has been slowly deconstructed over the course of the show to demonstrate how doing so isn't necessarily a good thing. Five characters in the last few volumes have demonstrated this perfectly: Ruby, Yang, Ren, Ozpin, and Ironwood. All five characters "keep moving forward" and don't let setbacks get in their way... but it comes at the cost of their mental stability.
- Ruby regularly ignores and represses her own issues so as to "keep moving forward" for the sake of helping people, but that in turn causes things to well up until she eventually breaks down, like when Salem brought up Summer.
- Yang likewise pushes herself to move forward past her issues, but as Ren points out to her, just hiding her issues behind jokes and pushing onward only hurts her, and it was doing this in regards to her PTSD that made her a lot more unstable since she was forcing herself to recover.
- Ren was trying to abide by his fathers' last words of "Take Action", since he told Ren that no action is worse than taking action, and as we've seen in Volume 8, taking action when he has no idea what to do and is afraid of screwing up just caused him to have a mental breakdown.
- Ozpin had been fighting this Secret War for years, but he kept pushing forward due to his belief that he can't give up or Salem will win. As a result though he's experienced lifetimes worth of betrayals and has fallen into a cyclical state of depression and anxiety, combined with paranoia over what has happened in the past happening again, leading to a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy.
- Ironwood ultimately doubles down on his course of direction whenever something gets in his way, convinced he is the one in the right, and refuses to let anyone get in his way of what he thinks is the right thing to do.
Now, I don't doubt they will eventually reconstruct the idea, as they have with Jaune, who has been able to move past his issues over the death of Pyrrha and actually try moving forward, rather than moving forward in spite of his issues. But for now, the current theme of the show, "Keep Moving Forward", is being deconstructed to hell and back.
Edited by RebelFalcon on Apr 1st 2021 at 10:35:33 AM
Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.I mean, I've always been critical of how Jaune's arc moving forward from Pyrrha's death has been handled. Maybe this latest traumatic experience will allow him to do it right this time.
I personally don't see that much difference between Penny and Pyrrha. Ultimately, they both had a whole world of possibility open up to them: Penny getting the maiden powers/becoming a real girl, and Pyrrha having a crisis of faith and a fall from grace.
It's easy to look retroactively to Pyrrha's character and write her off as an obviously doomed character, but I'm a relic from the V3 days and I remember a lot of people, aware of the possibility of her death, nervously arguing that it would be better to keep her alive. Same with Penny. I bet in a couple year's time, people will say the same things: that her death was "obvious from the start".
Ever since she fell off of Amity, I had figured her character doomed. RT was especially cruel with making her a real girl for naught but a moment, quite literally taunting us with the possibilities for her future. I acknowledge that making her a human was a way to weaken and doom her character, but it was also a "conclusion" to her dreams and aspirations to be human + to have friends.
I don't like saying that Penny should remain dead dead.... but the interpretation of the finale was pretty final. Penny's last conversation with Winter was clear in that regards, as Penny happily departs the mortal realm without any clear regrets. I've already expressed disappointment at this scene, because I would at least expect some sadness from Penny, because she had her entire life ripped from her due to terrible circumstances (AKA: the writers wanted to hurt the fans + felt that this was a good way to end her character's story).
Frankly, show has been better at communicating the "keep moving forward" theme with topics like Blake's lost bravery, or Yang's PTSD + lost arm, or Ren + Nora's traumatic past. When the theme "keep moving forward" is used to address character death and the tragedy of it, I feel RT fumbles a bit, instead of focusing on the characters recovering from the tragedy - they instead try to "lessen" the tragic elements (Pyrrha did what a huntress would've done + that's all she wanted to be, Penny finally made her choice + protected her friends, etc). Arguing that teenagers died "fulfilled" doesn't sit well with me.
Edited by mach56gs on Apr 1st 2021 at 9:33:30 AM
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I don't know what you are talking about with Pyrrah, back in the day everyone was predicting that she would die because of all the death flags that were constantly popping up around her.
Pyrrah was an obvious sacrificial lion from day one. In Penny's case bringing her back just to kill her again, just felt like a waste of time.
For me Penny coming back and then the whole virus situation getting solved only to die again, felt like less of narrative purpose and more just RT's ludicrous overkill when it comes to hope spots in RWBY.
Edited by Gaogaigar54 on Apr 1st 2021 at 11:02:35 AM
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Except unlike with Pyrrha, the idea Penny will be around still makes sense. Pyrrha never became a maiden, and was distinctively immolated with no magical means of sticking around. Penny meanwhile was the Winter Maiden, there's the plot thread with Ambrosius, and she is now part of Winter.
That's another thing too. If they were just gonna kill her anyway, why not let the Virus do it and still have her give the powers to Winter? At least then her Cores would still exist meaning the plot thread about Pietro being able to revive again would actually matter, Winter would still get the powers, and there wouldn't be any ambiguity in regards to what Ambrosius did to her. She even suggests that to Ruby, albeit saying she'd give the powers to Ruby, but they figure "Nope, we're not losing you" only to lose her anyway.
Edited by RebelFalcon on Apr 1st 2021 at 2:12:15 PM
Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.The fact that there's still people who clamor for a resurrection even in a show where it says All Deaths Final probably means the audience wasn't ready for the tonal shift back in Volume 3.
Her death serves no purpose though aside from giving angst to other characters, in this case Weiss, Jaune, and Winter. She was pretty much fridged since her death changes nothing.
Even Hazel's death, even if I hated it too, had a purpose, that being holding Salem off so YAL and Emerald could escape, and then restraining Salem long enough for Oscar to fire his Nuke Cane at her.
But Penny's death seems pretty much to have happened just to give the cast angst at their failure to save her when they spent an entire Volume trying to do so. The only real "purpose" you can argue it having is making Winter the new Winter Maiden, but even that is rather pointless since it's not like Winter had to become the Winter Maiden, the important thing was making sure Cinder didn't become it, something easily accomplished just by not killing Penny! There is no plot significance to Winter becoming the Winter Maiden now, especially since the Relic has already been removed from the Vault, and the power are therefore just that, powers, with no narrative purpose outside of Cinder wanting them.
And you can probably bet that Ruby, Blake, and Yang are gonna angst about it when they find out from Weiss and Jaune, and you can bet even moreso that Jaune is gonna angst the most since he's the one who finished her off. This is quite literally textbook fridging at this point.
Edited by RebelFalcon on Apr 1st 2021 at 3:08:55 PM
Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.This attempt to distinguish Penny from Pyrrha is wishful thinking. Penny was designed to die in Volume 3 just like Pyrrha, and the existence of a robot that could flagrantly circumvent the "finality of death" that RT has tried so hard to establish factored in to her demise. RT has expressly compared Volume 7-8 to the fall of beacon, and who else would have the same amount of impact as Pyrrha's death?
As per Pyrrha's death "making sense": Pyrrha could have easily survived Beacon and had her own recovery arc a la Blake or Yang. The only 'reason' she died was because RT decided before Volume 1 that she needed to die a shocking death so that the characters (and fans) would be miserable. It's not some logical conclusion to her story, just an artist's choice.
There was a whole lot of nonsense around Pyrrha's death that could make her "return" like Penny. The fact that her death was done with magical special effects already got fans speculating with "No Body No Death". Her "incomplete" maiden transfer could have also bound her onto the Fall Maiden essence as well. Thematically, unlike Penny, Pyrrha never got a chance to say goodbye and find closure. Also unlike Penny, Pyrrha didn't leave behind a tangible piece of evidence that she was dead (a corpse). Thus, if Penny shows up as some sort of spirit, I would expect Pyrrha to do the same in some similar capacity.
Mind you: I don't want it to happen, I think it would add nothing to the story and torment viewers more than anything. It breaks the entire realism and theme of the story to have Penny remain in the show even after her corporeal form is gone.
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Yes, the fandom has never really come to terms as to what sort of tone RWBY should have.
Edited by mach56gs on Apr 1st 2021 at 12:15:41 PM
x2 Here's what I would have done.
The heroes still want to use the staff to create the portals. They also want to get Ironwood off of their backs. As such, they let Penny go to the vault, open it, and self terminate, since Pietro can bring her back one more time. When Penny self destructs, she thinks of Winter in her final moments to pass the Winter Maiden powers to her. At that moment, Winter betrays Ironwood and brings the staff to team RWBY outside, who create the portal network.
The plan hinges on Winter growing a conscience, which she will thanks to Weiss talking to her while she and Marrow are in the elevator.
Edited by Teamkirin5 on Apr 1st 2021 at 3:16:02 PM
We all have to answer to the call of fate when it beckons us, even if it is not at a moment of our choosing.

I agree that time could have been better allocated, but disagree only in that seeing Team SSSN and Team JNPR do stuff was nice at the time. It's a very different experience watching the show when it's coming out vs binging earlier volumes. I feel we're more tolerant and hyped about the filler in the former scenario.
I agree the Winter - Qrow fight was unnecessary. Every time I rewatch it I dislike it a little more, but back then it was so hype to finally see the uncle Yang and Ruby described cutting loose.
Now, though, I still wonder why Qrow's eye glowed at one point, why he could shoot sword beams, and why two grown adults decided to go to war on each other in the middle of a school with the goddamned military around it.
Potato potato. I wouldn't say James' flaws were solely due to Atlas.
(/) Strongly disagree
(/) Strongly agree
(passes a bowl of instant ramen while also trying to catch up)
Edited by FOFD on Mar 31st 2021 at 9:18:27 AM