" He had people that would provide support, but we see what happened to them when they tried to steer him away from his worst choices.
Sienna tries to curtail his worst tendencies and teach him to be a better leader. He goes behind her back, betrays her, and kills her when she tries to restrain him for the good of their organization."
He have friends?....who? we never see blake and adam as friend or parner or anything, and Sienna encorage is agresiveness, she critizing for his direction but to said she try that is a big little too much, ether she was blind of her worst thing or she didnt mind until he grow to dangerous, specially as she used him in a powerplay toward ghira.
Saying he have a suport net is.....not much, we see him as fully adult with his opinion and them growing worst.
"Adam is a lesson about Freudian Excuse Is No Excuse. His past may have started him down that path, but he' the one that actively chose to keep making things worse. He could have accepted the help offered to him, as many other characters do. He doesn't and he burns everything down in the end. "
It should be except a) the show never even said thwat happe to him, learing his freudian excuse in a song(that are canon except when they arent) and a damn video game after he die, the narrative kinda try to avoid to dwell on that while doubling down on his worst trait, nobody said the narrative should excuse him but the narrative should also show how it become, instead we have tell not show(with blake telling he is spite) and just him as dick.
Also the other critique come from the fact that of minorities chararter here Adam is both the one who suffer the worst, losing his parents, working in mines, having a brand of his face that forever mark him as corporate slave to contrast blake who have parents, loving and understanding parent which is even a rarity amount RWBY considering ruby and tai parents(raven is a bitch, summer is dead, tai was ausent for what we heard), Weiss parent(a snake with a moustache an alcholic), that forgive her after all it happen is light years of others, specially since Blake manage to befriend a schenne, which it add all sort of stuff down the road.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"The creators confirmed this on the DVD Commentary. When he stepped back as leader of the White Fang, he was asked to become Chieftain of Menagerie. The house is the official residence of the Chieftain.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.![]()
Except whe didnt see that: we see her telling adam to stop...only after he butcher some human and them she promote him to leader of the vale branch and congratulating for his efforts.
She chastie for him being rash and ally himself to Salem but in all this time she didnt seen to mind his violence tendecy.
And even them that is not suport system, Sienna push him as fighter which accidently feed his hero complex.
And with blake....well this is the thing here: Adam is a chararter that a lot of being told but not show, he talk about how important blake is for him but not why, we dont know much about the nature of both, specially as she speak of him of mentor but seen harbor so misguided romantic feeling for him.
The same with...nearly everything: his brand, how he got is weapon and suit, Sienna relationship with him or him and the belladonnas, we dont know A LOT of him, hell the brand come after he die, which means nothing in term of his chararter.
And just to be clear, this is not unique of Adam, the series have a thing of never wanting to said anything, always being tight to his chest, it took 8 damn volume to know something about Cinder, Adam die barely knowing something, Roman die after revealing part of him and so on.
If anything RWBY as series is a good study of why animes overelie a lot of flashback, nearly all his villans are douche because we never see the why do stuff, is telling Salem is the most sympathic of them and she was to genocide mankind.
Edited by unknowing on Dec 2nd 2020 at 10:18:22 AM
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"The only time I remembering her discouraging it was after the Fall of Beacon, and that magnitudes larger than what Adam has done previously with further reaching consequences. Prior to that she encouraged him to continue on his path.
Edited by Cross on Dec 2nd 2020 at 9:38:58 AM
"Except whe didnt see that: we see her telling adam to stop...only after he butcher some human and them she promote him to leader of the vale branch and congratulating for his efforts"
She let him fight people who were shooting at him, but stopped him from killing someone who wasn't hurting him
Even at volume 5 she says how Beacon was him 'continuing' to waste his talents', implying this had been a common frustration for her.
We know that Adam and Blake had been in a relationship of some sort for awhile. Then he turned abusive to her.
In the Charachter short, we see her stop him from killing one SDC officer who had been knocked out.
Indeed.
Because of the limitations of the format, we have to infer a lot of things. What we know from the various sources for information in the series (episodes, character short, commentaries, ect) is the following:
- Adam was extremely popular and charismatic, people liked and admired him.
- He was considered a promising young leader, with a large following of friends/supporters.
- He wanted loyal followers, not true friends.
- His interactions with Sienna show a mentorship, which had soured by the point he kills her.
- Adam drove everyone away, little bit by bit.
I would also add that Adam's backstory is tragic, but many characters in the series also have horrible backgrounds. A 1:1 comparison is impossible and it isn't a competition, but Trauma and Awful seem to be common themes in the series. (Other than them saying Mercury's backstory is the darkest.) But Adam is someone that took his past trauma and pain, and used it as an excuse to hurt other people.
He escaped his ugly past, but then he basically took the opportunities he was given and the kindness he was surrounded with and burned it all to the ground.
The series drives this home with some of the siblings in the series, and how their choices have led them to different paths. Winter and Weiss had the same abusive childhoods, but have ended up in very different places because of how they chose to deal with it. Winter joined the military and has ended up as the emotionally-constipated 2nd in commander to our new favorite dictator. Weiss rejected Ironwood's offer of attending Atlas, and went to Beacon where she was able to flourish emotionally because of her team. Likewise, Raven and Qrow have ended up in very different places in spite of both starting out as feral bandit children sent to learn to murder Huntsmen.
Adam burned his own bridges with his rage, selfishness, and unwillingness to accept any blame.
I believe "stop" is a trick word here. Adam is stopped because Sienna called out to Adam about going forward, however she call his name before looking at him. Next scene is her praising him and telling him to continue in his current direction.
My main problem with the Faunus subplot is that we just don't see that much systemic racism against the Faunus. Racist acts in the show are perpetrated almost exclusively by racist individuals. The show doesn't really convey what challenges the Faunus face in society on a more general level beyond some random individual bars not wanting to serve them. It makes the militant acts of the White Fang look even more disproportionate. Like the show is saying since the Faunus have already almost got everything they want, and widespread racism is all but gone, then the current White Fang is going too far. Adam himself is a FAUNUS supremicist.
That makes me wonder. Do we have any information on whether Ozma ever tried to aid the faunus cause during any of his lives? Has he had a faunus life, even?
Edited by GNinja on Dec 2nd 2020 at 3:37:21 PM
Kaze ni Nare!![]()
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I don't have Wyld's or TobiasDrake's prowess with words to explain my point well so I try to keep it simple.
Everyone has issues, but everyone doesn't deal with the same. Adam's opportunity involved getting praised and recognition for going a bad path that ended up getting him killed. One of those same people that's being used an example is someone that encouraged him down that path and the other opted to leave with triggered something else in him. People like to compare Adam to Kylo Ren, but it's Grant Ward that comes to my mind.
"She let him fight people who were shooting at him, but stopped him from killing someone who wasn't hurting him "
We see him slashing several other guard and only told her to stop when he was about to finish someone else and that was because they need to focus in his mission.
"We know that Adam and Blake had been in a relationship of some sort for awhile. Then he turned abusive to her. "
Again we have being told about it but now why he seen of her for example, even in volume 2 she speak of him as mentor figure before being reveal they have this cuasi relationship out of the suden.
"In the Charachter short, we see her stop him from killing one SDC officer who had been knocked out."
she didnt see to mind him killing a bunch of other guys.
"His interactions with Sienna show a mentorship, which had soured by the point he kills her. "
Mentorship seen like a lot, she seen promise of him as fighter, but is clear she didnt mind his violence, only he focus on whatever mission was a hand, we also see she praise him for killing that human which it start the path that violence is the answer, there also the subtext that Sienna did that to undermine Ghira in that moment.
"I would also add that Adam's backstory is tragic, but many characters in the series also have horrible backgrounds. A 1:1 comparison is impossible and it isn't a competition, but Trauma and Awful seem to be common themes in the series. (Other than them saying Mercury's backstory is the darkest.) But Adam is someone that took his past trauma and pain, and used it as an excuse to hurt other people. "
Problem here is that Adam trauma, past or whatever is not only explored, it seen to be avoid as we see how his brand turn out to be meanless, this isnt even a "you suffer and that was okey but take too far" it was more "oh sure, this happen, let back of you being abusive", the narrative focus more on that.
"My main problem with the Faunus subplot is that we just don't see that much systemic racism against the Faunus."
Worst, we spend five of eight volume see him fighting other faunus of the organizationt hat in theory used to work for their rights, and nearly all racist have being deal outside of that.
"People like to compare Adam to Kylo Ren, but it's Grant Ward that comes to my mind."
I mean, I compared Adam to kylo because is personality and weird writing that consist of pille him whatever unplesant trait with hints of deeper story that never come...and that the shout a lot.
But ward.....kinda? Ward is more a tykebomb from hydra, Garret pretty much destroy any posibility of him being normal by getting a dependence of anyone close to him(the moment garret die he just swich to coulson and daisy) with a inhability to be good after that, the issue is that after bretraying everyone he become one trick pony until he die....and even after that the fact we see frameward show he could be a good person have things turn diferent and there was nothing inhereit in him that was evil.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not""We see him slashing several other guard and only told her to stop when he was about to finish someone else and that was because they need to focus in his mission."
"she didnt see to mind him killing a bunch of other guys."
Again
Those guys were all up and shooting at him. She stopped him from killing a guy who wasn't a threat.
And holy Crap, I didn't realize it but yeah, Adam is like Ward.
Bow to the PrototypeThey werent a threat when they were shooting at him?
And Sienna has both that, and scolds him over his actions at Beacon reffering to it as him 'continuing' to waste his talents
Everything we have leans in the direction that she discouraged him from poinltess violence.
Edited by Snoketrope on Dec 2nd 2020 at 9:09:44 AM
Bow to the Prototype
The entire escene is to contrast him in his early fight were he knock combatant and avoid hitting people to unwanted buchering.
As for someone who is annoy with that she didnt mind praising him and giving control of his own brach of the white fang in general.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"An interesting point to be made about the Maidens.
@harostar
While others have dealt better with trauma than Adam, most didn't have to experience the same amount. Like Weiss' and Winter's childhood wasn't great no question, but they were never physically in any danger.
It's like saying someone who got shot in the shoulder shouldn't whine because someone who got a paper cut (that doesn't mean I consider what Weiss or Winter experienced a paper cut) doesn't whine either. Like, the closest we have to someone with the same experience as Adam are Salem and Mercury. Salem is basically Adam only ramped up to eleven, and Mercury is on his way to become like Adam. He has a way out with Emerald, but if he rejects that, then he will probably walk the same path.
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Well the issue there is that’s kinda not a step most people don’t take. That’s kinda the problem I have with Adam as a character is that he seemed to go from one to eleven in terms of being a victim to a horrible monster.
Like the implication I gotten from the brand was that he was a former Faunus slave so to me the leap from that to a Faunus Supremacist who wants to make Humanity his slaves (he outright states that they should serve the Faunus) seems like a huge leap that sounds hard to believe. Of course that’s only speculation on my end but that seems to be the implication the brand is supposed to give.
I don’t think it’s an impossible turn for someone but when we’re introduced to Adam in Volume 3 he’s already blatantly evil by this point and we don’t get much in terms of flashbacks or origins outside of the Adam short, which is short and doesn’t really answer a lot of questions regarding his origins.
Blake says some things about his character but the implication that he manipulated her kinda casts whatever she said into doubt since anything she said in regards to him could just be romanticism so that kinda blackens his character significantly, making it hard to decipher.
Edited by DragonMaster408 on Dec 4th 2020 at 3:39:28 PM
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He wasn't an actual slave. He pretty much was one in all but name, but he wasn't legally a slave, just a child worker in the SDC mines. RWBY: Amity Arena first established that he was held down and branded by his boss, and that before then he Used to Be a Sweet Kid, and the Commentary further elaborated that he had gotten into an argument with his boss who then branded him in rage.
The common point though is that once he got that brand, he was no longer a sweet kid and had a festering hatred for humanity. While he started as a genuine revolutionary just wanting the betterment of Faunuskind, after he killed the bandit who tried to shoot Ghira and was Lionized for it, he became egotistical and gained a messiah complex, his hatred of humanity continued festering, and he pretty much became He Who Fights Monsters, becoming worse than the very man who branded him in the first place. He then began suffering Motive Decay, no longer caring about Faunus rights and more just caring about flipping the script, then losing that in favor of only caring about his own desires, being a "hero" to the Faunus with Blake at his side, and when he couldn't have that, he decided to dedicate his life getting back at the one who "ruined" him.
And while it was quick for us, for him, it's a slow burn, since this had been in effect since he was a little kid, and ended up deteriorating further and further as he got older. By time we see him, he's in the midst of riding the high, and only started coming down once Blake left him, since that's when his delusions started to be broken.
Had we seen the whole journey, he'd likely be comparable to Ironwood and his Protagonist Journey to Villain. We didn't get the whole journey though, we were introduced to it in the middle, and because of that, the good he used to be is largely an Informed Attribute, limited to two scenes in the Character Short and various bits of Expanded Universe material. It ultimately boils down to one of the bigger problems that show has had for a long time: Show, Don't Tell. While they've been getting better at showing, there are still issues left behind from the original volumes, Adam being one of those problems.
Characters like Ironwood and Salem are good examples of how they've gotten better at Show, Don't Tell. But there are still issues lingering towards it. I think that's one of my big issues with Sun's treatment in RWBY: Before the Dawn, since it tries to make the various flaws Sun has in the book something he always had, but those flaws are largely an Informed Attribute in the series proper, not helped by how little focus we actually get for Team SSSN and how Sun's appearances are largely focused on his bond with Blake. And since they are an Informed Attribute in the series proper, since he is only shown to have left his team behind twice and neither time gave the indication his team had issues with it or that it was a persistent issue, his treatment in the book comes across as incongruous with his actual character, making him suffer Adaptational Jerkass.
Edited by RebelFalcon on Dec 4th 2020 at 4:04:45 AM
Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.

The thing with Sienna was that she was also part of reason he went headfirst down that path. We don't know how much she actually did to rein in him, we have one instance in the short and her chastising him after everything went down. Two people, especially ones like Blake and Sienna, doesn't make much of a support network.
Also Adam is a weird case of Freudian Excuse Is No Excuse since his backstory wasn't really as such. By the end he cared more about Blake than anything else.