![]()
That's sadly how most RWBY villains are written.
Post this episode I kinda wish they'd established a little more about how Robyn's Semblance works with her bringing it up this episode. If she can't "extend" it to someone else or it has a visible sign to whether someone's lying or not its completely worthless for the purpose she brought up this episode because you'd have to take her entirely at her word and if she's actively against you there's nothing stopping her from lying about the what her Semblance says for her benefit.
![]()
Not really the bulk of RWBY's villains are clearly intended to be hateable.
We clearly aren't meant to view Adam, Watts ect in a sympathetic light.
When it comes down to the villains who have some sympathetic qualities. Salem is clearly portrayed as some one who's downward spiral is her own fault. Emerald is to willfully blind in her loyalty to a person who is gaslighting her and Ironwood is actualy sympathetic and understandable in his fall from grace, while it still being largely caused by his own flaws.
The audience feels the right amount of sympathy and dislike for those characters. Hazel by contrast just comes off as a raging asshole, who ultimately comes off as just as petty as Watts and Adam, despite clearly being intended to be more sympathetic to them.
I'm not saying Hazel can't work with what he's had had of him so far, but whatever fate he gets needs to be treated as him getting what her deserves, rather than a tragic end. Hell maybe have Ruby continue her running theme of permanently maiming Salem's inner circle on Hazel, in retaliation to what he's doing to to Oscar. That would be a bit of karma and poetic irony, his revenge quest comes back to bight him, when someone decides to get a little payback on him. But I expect the story to try and paint him in a sympathetic light to the end.
Edited by Gaogaigar54 on Nov 28th 2020 at 9:21:33 AM
Weiss was rather cold to Whitley this episode. Wich was honeslty really surprising, but it might go with my own hope that Whitley wasn't totally innocent in his and Weiss bad relationship.
......Does anyone else get the Vibe that 'Without you I am nothing' is something Salem like, drilled into Cinder as she trained her?
Bow to the PrototypeI mean as in the villains who are meant to be sympathetic. For the most part, the actions they do pretty much undermine whatever traumatic past they had.
The issue with what you're saying is that Salem, Cinder, Adam ect, are deliberately portrayed as people who don't deserve sympathy, in spite of their tragic pasts.
The problem with Hazel is that we are intended to feel more sympathetic towards him than them and it really dosn't work.
If Hazel ends up being called out on his crap and has the story acknowledge his hypocrisy the way it does with those other villains, I would be fine with it. But I don't think that will happen.
Edited by Gaogaigar54 on Nov 28th 2020 at 9:57:46 AM
My main point is you can't really apply "Unintentionally Unsympathetic" to a lot of the villains, because we aren't intended to view them in that sympathetic a light to begin with, while Hazel by contrast absolutely belongs in the "Unintentionally Unsympathetic" boat.
Edited by Gaogaigar54 on Nov 28th 2020 at 10:33:48 AM
You know the drill, not reading anything till I finish this post.
- Noodle Incident involving Joanna losing a fight from Robyn... that gets no reaction out of anyone.
- I do appreciate how they're actually spending time showing Qrow and Robyn build up a rapport. With Clover gone, Qrow needs someone who can actually build him up again, and while Robyn may be more crass and hotheaded, that's gonna be needed for someone this deep in depression like Qrow.
- Qrow, I know you blame yourself, but Clover's death isn't your fault. Clover made his own decisions, and chose focus on you over the literal Serial Killer. He made his own grave, let him lie in it.
- I guess Qrow cleaned the blood off the pin.
- Commonality Connection incoming: looks like Robyn hasn't had much bonds herself since she's a Living Lie Detector.
- Oh great, Watts is back. Meaning whatever Ironwood needed him for is done. I fear for Penny.
- Harriet, shut up. That pin isn't yours either, and its a damn pin. If Qrow wants to keep it, let him. Or are you that much of a bitch?
- Robyn, I love you so much for tearing Harriet a new one. Though I wish Marrow would have let Harriet open the cell just so Robyn could introduce Harriet to her fist.
- Yeah, the Hound has taken them to the outskirts of Solitas, close to the mountains. I understand needing to get Oscar back, but YAL have pretty much left Mantle out to dry when the West sector still needed their help.
- It's so cold that those bikes are actually freezing. You'd think since they live in the arctic that Pietro would make them more resistant to this kind of weather.
- Okay, that move was awesome Jaune. Wonder if Nora constantly doing that to him gave him the idea to do so for Ren.
- Guys, focus on driving! Not High-Fiving! And no, the rhyme was not on purpose!
- Poor Ren, just seeing his face, you can tell he's trying to not inherit Jaune's moniker of "Vomit Boy".
- Guys, remember, the Hound is intelligent, normal tactics won't suffice. Especially when it can call for backup!
- Yes Yang, it did. Wanna keep stating the obvious?
- Well that's two bikes totaled. Explains why only Yang still has her in the opening.
- And goodbye shield bomb.
- And we now have that scene of Yang's eyes widening... it's nearly driving off a cliff. You'd think that, seeing as how she's driven a motorcycle before, Yang would know to keep your eyes on the road!
- And Ren saves them from falling off the cliff, but has to sacrifice Oscar to the Hound. You made the right choice Ren, they were in more immediate danger.
- Hello Whitley, can we, a set of fugitives, stay for awhile? No? Too bad.
- Really kid, your reputation? Between Whitley and Jacques, do these two not realize Ironwood enacted Martial Fucking Law?!
- At least Whitley isn't heartless, willing to let Nora get rest.
- Weiss, you didn't need to phrase it like that to him. You could have just said for him to leave you guys be.
- Ruby and Blake are both worried about Yang... but her signal is gone.
- Yeah, they're so far out in the mountains the Scrolls have no signal. Atlas Tower can only cover so much, as as established back on Anima in Volume 4, the CCT Towers lose their signal the further you go out from the capital. And with this weather, the signal is pretty much non-existent.
- Yang is trying to fix the only bike they have left.
- Like Weiss said, without projected aura, the cold of Solitas can kill in a few hours. And even with projected aura, the cold is taxing Yang and Ren's. I think the only reason Jaune is doing better is because of reserves, but even then he's still low due to boosting Ren's Semblance constantly.
- Thank you Ren for finally telling Yang off... how did you know Jaune cheated his way in? No, seriously, how? Only people who knew that were Pyrrha and Cardin, and Cardin pretty much shut his mouth after Jaune saved him. Did Jaune tell you offscreen? Did Pyrrha?
- Yang, fuck you. You do not get to tell Ren off for pushing people away. He is the only one bothering to ask this shit, and he is not in a good place now. You don't know the shit he's had to experience, you don't know what is going on in his head, and if you think you can act like your judgmental ass when he's at least acknowledging the reality of the situation instead of relying on blind hope, you can fuck right off. Especially when the accomplishments you listed like Haven and the Leviathan required someone doing the work for you! (Raven is the only reason they got the Relic, and Ruby's eyes only kept the Leviathan in place long enough for Cordovin to kill it)
- Oscar, meet Salem. The voice in your head's ex-wife.
- Salem is going and ignoring Oscar's existence too in favor of Ozma. *Sigh*. Will no one think of the farmboi?
- At least she's willing to entertain talking to him when it's clear Ozma isn't coming out.
- She wants to know where the Beacon Relic is. And as she pointed out when Oscar says he doesn't know... Ozpin is deliberately keeping that memory locked. The fact Salem is familiar with how Ozma's merge works on the intricate level and the fact he can guard memories tells me one thing: this isn't the first time Salem's done this. She's captured Ozma before and tried interrogating him on shit.
- Oscar tries to tell Salem the lamp has no questions left... and Salem tortures him. And with Oscar defiant... Salem lets Hazel take a crack.
- This may actually be a good thing: one on one between Oscar and Hazel. Hazel may despise Ozpin, but he is aware Oscar isn't Ozpin, and even said so at Haven. And we've seen that Hazel isn't heartless. All it will take is one thing to be said before Oscar manages to break through to him.
- Interesting. Not only does Cinder not know of the Hound's existence... Salem considers it both an "experiment", and a "pet". And the moment Cinder steps out of line, the Hound prepares to attack Cinder. The Hound is quite literally Salem's attack dog.
- And despite being told not to, Cinder decides to sneak off and wants to take Neo with. And when Neo objects, Emerald offers to go. Just like the intro suggested.
- Jaune tries to reach out to Ren and get him to open up. A good idea Jaune, but Ren is severely emotionally constipated. He's had to deal with bottling up emotions since Kuroyuri fell. It's gonna take a lot for that damn to break.
- So, combined with her lack of reaction to the specific news earlier, looks like Yang already knew about Jaune cheating into Beacon. I guess at some point offscreen he told everyone about it. Meaning all those Betrayal Fic are now thoroughly invalidated like the trash they are since its made clear they all accept him in spite of it.
- See Yang, Jaune understands where Ren is coming from, and you don't see him trying to judge Ren for what happened. Or did you miss how Ren put himself down by calling himself an "Orphan from the middle of nowhere?"
- ... Are you fucking serious Yang? You don't even care if Ruby thinks less of you, you're only thinking about Blake? Not the sister you pretty much blamed for the whole shit fest despite you having a big hand in it? No, you're thinking about Blake who never even said or indicated she had a problem to you outside of a concerned look?! Even Jaune seems irritated at that! Honestly Yang, Blake deserves better than you. And by that, I mean anyone else in the main cast than you.
- Sorry, but I gotta expand on this. You are sitting in the middle of the freezing cold. Ren is closing in on himself and on the risk of, as you put it, "brooding himself to death". Oscar has just been kidnapped by Salem. Mantle is still under siege. Atlas is a sitting duck. And you're more focused on Blake? Glad to see where your priorities are bitch.
- ... I can't tell if the ice cracking is because of an incoming tremor... or if there is something beneath Solitas that Salem is waiting for. We saw the intro had arms grabbing at RWBY after they fell into the ice, does she have something trying to attack from underground?
It also made me love Ren and Jaune even more than I already do.
Edited by RebelFalcon on Nov 28th 2020 at 8:21:35 AM
Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.A tumblr post made a joke about this, and I want to expand on it....
Rens argument seems to be based around the Idea that they should have let the adults handle this and they were screwing things up.
The show however has made it very clear that the Adults are mostly varying degrees of Wreck themselves.
Bow to the Prototype![]()
- A. Ron the Death Eater is a fanfic trope, and requires blatantly writing a character to be worse than they canonically are, hence why its called that to the tendency for Fanfic writers to turn Ron Weasley into one of the Death Eaters, so no, I'm not using that trope.
- B. Yeah, she was part of the argument, but I have run out of any good will to be had towards her character ever since Volume 5, and am just generally sick of her sanctimonious bullshit.
- C. The entire final conversation was her playing the pronoun game, going "Do you think she'll think less of me", so of course Jaune thought it was about Ruby since they were the ones who argued about it. He would have no reason to think Yang was talking about Blake, since not only was Blake even involved in the argument, Yang hadn't even mentioned Blake period till now, and then just out of nowhere, she brings Blake up!
Whereas Yang is basically going "We couldn't do nothing!", "Are you saying we let Ironwood win?", and "We accomplished things before", and basically relying on vague hopes and false accomplishments, since said "accomplishments" required they get their asses saved each time. And while Ren is expressing genuine concerns, she just tries to shut him down by accusing him of pushing people away and saying he's "brooding", as if that invalidates what he says. And of course, lets not forget that he was content to not say a word about this until Yang kept pushing him. If she didn't want to hear what he had to say, she shouldn't have forced him to say it.
I have made no secret I hate Yang, but I could express approval of her actions if they actually have merit behind them, like her telling that Karen grandmother off. But here, the only point she has is the idea they can't just do nothing, but that's it. And it's a point literally anyone could have made. Yang meanwhile can fuck right off for all I care, especially if she's going to continue being such a sanctimonious asshole, the kind of people I hate the most.
Edited by RebelFalcon on Nov 28th 2020 at 3:12:07 PM
Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.The 'Yeah Ruby' scene seems to just be more Ship Tease and such for Bumblby not a sign of Yang caring less for Ruby
Arryn made this tweet(https://mysterygirl96.tumblr.com/post/636050064738041856/yes-arryn)
Wich gives the impression that moment is supposed to be a good thing and not any indictiaon of something negative.
This reddit comment actually puts what I'm trying to say better than I could.
If it is, then it was poorly handled. It's injecting it into a scene where it doesn't fit.
Edited by RebelFalcon on Nov 28th 2020 at 3:09:59 PM
Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.
Is it even spite? This isn't even the first time it's come up, and if it was just spite, he wouldn't have looked so ashamed of himself after bringing up Jaune's transcripts. He's not saying it out of spite, he's saying it cause he's in the midst of a mental breakdown. He is spiraling, and because he keeps bottling it up, every time he gets pushed to a certain point, the dam cracks and it comes out. And if he ends up opening himself up, something ends up happening that causes him to close himself off again and reinforces the idea he should bottle it up, like the rally where he finally kissed Nora... only for the massacre to happen.
Let's not forget, this is only the day after he fought Neo transformed into Nora, and as we saw them, he was bawling from what happened, and he expressed the same concerns afterwards. And that he had to let Oscar be kidnapped so he could save Yang and Jaune, a literal Morton's Fork for him, since either way, he's losing one of the only people he has in his life.
It's not whitewashing. It's understanding his position due to having been in that kind of headspace myself. I am much more sympathetic to what Ren is going through because I've been where he's been. I won't deny he's still screwing up, such as still bottling his emotions up period, but condemning him for being the only one to actually worry about these things, the one who has actually lived this nightmare twice over, is not okay.
Edited by RebelFalcon on Nov 28th 2020 at 3:19:21 PM
Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.Ren has legitimate reasons to frustrated with the situation and the people around him, but at the end of the day he more less used it as an excuse to have a strop.
The worst thing you can do when you have a legitimate point is to squander it and Ren did just that.
Edited by Gaogaigar54 on Nov 28th 2020 at 12:25:12 PM
He didn't though. Jaune clearly took what Ren said seriously, as evident by his attempt to talk to Ren when they found shelter. It's just Yang focused more on Ren being "brooding" than the actual point... which is more what Yang does in general. She'll act self-righteous and get judgmental towards whoever doesn't agree with her. Just ask Ruby herself at the start of the volume. And just like then, Yang didn't actually come to a consensus with who she was arguing with, rather Jaune had to step in so they could actually stay on task. Whether it be then with thinking Ruby is being an idealistic idiot, or now thinking Ren is "brooding" and pushing everyone away.
Wait, if you're arguing that Rebel Falcon is applying Ron the Death Eater, how is it different from you saying "Ren was being mean!"?
