RWBY Spoilers Thread

Yes, but I don't believe the staff is inside the chamber, and I'm frankly hoping that Salem ends up with two Relics by the end of the Atlas Arc.

Ironwood said he ordered Winter to take the Maiden power because the lamp and the staff need to be locked away. If the staff was inside the chamber, it wouldn't need to be locked away because it already is. It would only be the lamp that needs locking away. I also don't believe the staff can power Atlas from inside the chamber since the inside of the Haven chamber looked like the void the God of Light spoke to Ozma in. If it is that void then it's nowhere on Remnant.

Ironwood told Oscar that the reason he first took him to the vault was to try and jog Ozpin loose. I think he deliberately lied to Oscar about the staff being inside the chamber in the hope of baiting Ozpin into correcting the lie. Ozpin didn't take the bait and that left Oscar (and the heroes at large — and, primarily, the audience) believing the staff is inside the chamber.

The vault is therefore currently acting as a decoy because the staff is somewhere else so that it can power Atlas. However, that means it's vulnerable (and always has been, which is why I think there's a secondary 'vault' which even more secret than the Vault of the Winter Maiden which holds the Relic in a position and place from which it can power Atlas). Once someone realises the vault is just a decoy and the staff is in the open, the Relic hunt will be on.

In other words, Ironwood can still raise Atlas even though he's lost the Winter Maiden — because he has access to the staff. However, that potentially flags to everyone that the staff cannot be in the chamber if he's using the relic without a Maiden around to obtain access to it.

That's why I've been wondering if Oscar will be going solo for a bit in Volume 8 or join up with the heroes immediately — he has a chance to try and go for the staff while Ironwood thinks he's dead. And, in my theory, only Ironwood and Ozpin know where the staff really is (Winter might as well, but I don't think Ace Ops and Penny know — Clover might have known, but not the entire team). It's just a question of whether he goes solo, or whether he joins back up with the heroes and they come up with a group plan. On a personal level, I think Ozpin and Oscar need some 'alone time'. Plus, I like the thought that, if Oscar and Ozpin go for the staff alone, then they'll be in a position to help Qrow and Robyn, and the staff will be their collective storyline (Oscar, Ozpin, Qrow and Robyn). The reason I like that is because I think Ozpin and Qrow still have unfinished business — and I think Clover's entry to, and exit from, the story underpins that: he came in when Qrow was reeling over Ozpin and is removed just in time for Ozpin's return, which occurs while Qrow is reeling over Clover.

Either way, my point here is that, as far as the Atlas Arc is concerned, the staff is more vulnerable with Penny's absence than presence. I should add the reminder, however, that I've had a theory for years that Ozma is a skeleton key for all four chambers since he's the originator of the Maiden powers.

In terms of where things will be after the Atlas arc is over, I think it will be more important for Penny to remain with Atlas and Mantle than to leave to go galavanting across the world with the heroes. Yes, she's point of vulnerability for the Relic, but she's also a point of strength for it, too. In this case, we're not dealing with a zero sum game here. She is both, at the same time. And I also think it goes against her characterisation for her to even want to abandon the kingdom when it needs her. She started the Atlas Arc as the 'Protector of Mantle' and I am expecting her to end the Atlas Arc as the 'Protector of both Mantle and Atlas'. She'll stay.

Well, I'm not expecting Penny to die from being swallowed by a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and dragon wings for flippers. Pinocchio didn't.

I'm expecting Pietro to die. I think part of the consequence of Penny becoming the Winter Maiden will be that she genuinely now has her own Aura. Pietro will no longer need to sacrifice pieces of himself to rebuild her. Personally, I think obtaining the Maiden powers has removed a lot of Penny's death flags from her. However, if she did die, I would expect Weiss to be the primary candidate for receiving it due to the dual-bonding moment in this finale (it wasn't just Ruby who cuddled up to her, but Weiss, too). And I still think that it's possible that Fria could be related to Nora (I like the tragedy angle: that Nora did have one living relative right under her nose that she didn't know about and now there's no opportunity left for them to reconnect — especially given the fact that Fria had dementia).

And, just to be clear: I do not believe Ruby is eligible for Maiden powers, which is why I tend to exclude her as a candidate.

Don't most of us here think that about Ironwood? I know I certainly do, and I theorise from that perspective. However, this is also not a zero-sum game with the concept of someone becoming locked into a course of action that they cannot by themselves turn away from. It is a common part of tragic mistakes that this lock-in becomes an issue. It doesn't always happen, but it is a common occurrence, too.

Ironwood has constantly needed help throughout this entire volume to change course when new information comes his way. It has been part of his characterisations ever since V2 that he can become dangerously locked into a specific course of action that requires a lot of effort by others to change (sometimes unsuccessfully). That's not separate to the idea of him making a tragic mistake, it's part of how he's been making those mistakes.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Feb 21st 2020 at 9:29:48 AM

That makes little sense though. If the Relic wasn't in the Vault, he'd have no reason to tell Winter to meet him at the Vault. Before Oscar confronted him, Ironwood was just standing there waiting for Winter. If the Relic was in a secondary Vault, why wouldn't he order her to meet him closer to there? Then there's the fact that if he doesn't need the Maiden to get the Relic, why scream in anger when Winter tells him she failed? He was still waiting for her to show up, but hearing Winter fail sent him into a rage. He'd have no reason to be that enraged unless he needed the Winter Maiden to unlock the Vault, and he'd have no reason to unlock the Vault if the Staff isn't in it. You can't even argue it was just for appearances, since he let that scream out when he was alone, when he had no reason to put on an act. I'm fairly certain he was just saying the Lamp needs to be locked away with the Staff, but to do that he'd need to first open the Vault, temporarily revealing the Staff.

I also don't believe a Relic being in a Vault disqualifies it from being used. We have no ideas to the parameters of the Staff and what its limitations are like we do the Lamp. For all we know, the Staff can supply anything anywhere with endless energy just by making a declaration. Then, it doesn't matter where the Staff is, just that another declaration can't be made without stopping the first declaration.

He does need the Winter Maiden to unlock the Vault. He wants to put the Relics inside the chamber. His plan was to protect four targets: Atlas, the Maiden, and the two Relics. It wasn't just Atlas. Losing the Maiden power immediately kills his ability to protect three out of four of those targets. That's a really bad loss for him. All he has left now is Atlas.

I don't believe that scream is an act at all. The only act I believe he put on was back when he first introduced Oscar to the Vault. And he gave us his reason at that time: he wanted to jog Ozpin loose ^note Of course, it's about fooling the audience. When he told Team RWBY, Ace-Ops and the audience that he needs to lock away 'the lamp and the staff' that wasn't an act. When he was waiting for Winter in the Vault, that wasn't an act. His argument with Oscar wasn't an act. His scream wasn't an act.

I said before that the terminal in the Vault interested me because only a couple of locations were shown on it using skipped numbers. My thought at the time (and it's the still the case) is that these are the story-relevant floors. So, we have basement levels: 1, 4, 7 and 8. There are also two lines mid-way between some of the skipped numbers which may or may not designate 'unmarked' (hidden?) floors.

If the staff is not in the Vault of the Winter Maiden, that terminal screenshot we were given (during his PTSD moment to the black queen chess piece) is the clue to its location. That also allows Winter to collect the staff en route to Ironwood because the Vault of the Winter Maiden is the final stop in the journey. That would explain why he's waiting in the vault for Winter: he's expecting her to arrive with both the Maiden power and the staff, not just the Maiden power alone.

My theory that being inside the chamber disqualifies it from being used is based on a couple of things (yes, theories in their own right). The first is that the void was described as a place that was between worlds. Ozma was brought there before he'd agreed to be resurrected, so it was neither the living world of Remnant nor was it the afterlife (whatever the afterlife is). The second is that it makes sense to me for the chambers to be something that can isolate the power and presence of the Relics — learning that the Relics attract Grimm (how strongly and over what distance we still don't know) added to my theory (which already existed prior to V6). The third is that I theorise that Salem's curse doesn't just bar her from the afterlife, it bars her from that void between realms, too. In other words, she can't enter the chambers herself — someone has to on her behalf.

In short, I see the chambers as a way for Ozma to remove the four Relics from Remnant itself while still making them accessible from Remnant by anyone who can get into the chamber. However, that does mean the logical conclusion of my particular theory is that the Relic powers cannot be used on Remnant while inside the chamber because part of the point of those chambers is to isolate the Relic powers from Remnant.

And, yes, this does raise the big problem for Ironwood that is how can he hold Atlas high in the sky if he's put the Relic back inside the Vault, and I think he's hoping the Relic can still function from inside the chamber. One of my 'Atlas falls' scenarios (I have a couple) for V8 is that Ironwood actually 'wins' in the sense that he does manage to get the Relic back into the Chamber, only for the power to immediately fail, sending Atlas falling. In other words, Atlas falls because Ironwood's attempt to make what seems to be a rational choice to place the Relic inside the chamber to protect it from Salem imperils Atlas further. He's left realising his options are even worse than he already thought they were: the Relic has to stay in the open if he wants Atlas floating high or he grounds Atlas completely in order to protect the Relic — but his specific plan to protect both the Relic and Atlas is doomed to fail.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Feb 21st 2020 at 11:26:14 AM

Considering the plan is to use the staff to raise Atlas even higher up It would make more sense that the set up for that process is probably already in the vault with the staff connected to it. Sound more like Ironwood needs to open the vault to add the lamp in and make the adjustments to further raise Atlas since the staff being locked away would be the best means to prevent anyone from tampering with it. There is also the fact that the plan won't make much sense if he has to move it since at that point it is no longer powering Atlas and keeping it afloat.

We don't know if the Relic has to be deactivated just to carry it somewhere. So, we're theorising either way on that score.

However, I do find it very bizarre for Ironwood to say that they need to lock away the staff if the staff is already locked away.

So

Anything noteworthy with The Grimm Campaign?

It's canon

It's set before the events of the show. Leo is headmaster of Haven and the one who put out a call for Huntsmen, but as Qrow says in the episode a Faunus Headmaster doesnt have many friends in Mistral.

Yes Qrow, he does the opening narration, but he also is part of the story. He sends a recording to the party explaining the mission and Leo's circumstances. He's also voiced by Jason in the message which really helps sell it as part of the world.

The game exists as a transcript/report Glynda made for Ozpin because he found the adventure amusing.

Taco's exist but there spelled with two C's.

Vacuan Death Metal is a thing.

Eddy started the Campaign by crashing the Plane the Party was on so they would all have to come up with Landing Strategies immediately.

All four are graduated Huntsmen. Asher is a bit older then the others.

The first episode will be public next week. Rest are first exclusive.

Somebody made a more in depth summary: https://docs.google.com/document/d/16JKWsWkZbTqwx52VHqlz-yHQAYistuVMhH1Ic2CUD7c/edit

Personal opinion, it was quite good, Eddy is a good DM, the production values are higher then you would think, being prerecorded they added stuff like sound effects and images. Talespin's models and maps make visualizing easy, and the players have good chemistry.

I admittedly skimmed through, since watching other people player ended up not quite appealing to me. I'll probably keep up with summaries and spoilers, though not sure I'll be watching it going forward. It's not bad, I just don't think it's my personal cup of tea.

Is this on the RT site?

First Members only atm. It'll probably be free come next week. That's what I'm waiting for anyway since I'm not getting a first subscription just for this.

Yes, first episode will go public next week, rest will stay exclusive for first members on the site.

https://roosterteeth.com/watch/rwby-the-grimm-campaign-season-1-1

Okay people, Volume 8 be starting soon, so the same rules apply. No adding tropes to anywhere outside of the Recap page until a week has passed when it will be made public. No discussing it outside of this thread until the same. Spoiler tags aren't necessary since this is a spoiler thread. No linking to illicit streaming sites. And most importantly, keep it civil and polite with one another.

Pumped for tomorrow!

Just be prepared in case the site crashes.

Episode 1 is out for first members.

Think that cleaning girl we see at the beginning is Cinder. And Ironwood has officially gone off the deep end if he really killed that guy.

So Atlas won’t fall even if the Staff is removed, only when it is used for something else. So not only does that imply infinite range but it can create anything as well. I think the Staff might be the strongest Relic. Can’t wait to see the Sword.

The opening has a lot of things for predictions. From the chess part, I theorise that Ironwood will inevitably alienate himself from his allies and then die alone. This is just a spur-of-the-moment theory but I do think it holds weight.

Edited by Ohmknight on Nov 8th 2020 at 1:33:30 AM

My brief thoughts.

The eight season seems like too little too late, in regards to giving Cinder a back story and motivation.

So the giant Grimm Whale is actualy a mobile base for Salem. Didn't see that coming.

Interesting to see Yang beginning to doubt RWBY and there being some dissension among the heroes. Although the argument is arguably a bit forced.

While Ruby is in the right and looking at the bigger picture, she makes her argument very poorly on the phone with Ironwood. That's gonna be ammo for her haters and the "Ironwood is right" brigade.

Wait Clover's alive? I guess he really is lucky.

Well Ironwood killing the nude for yelling at him (when he could have easily just had him locked up) is further proof of Ironwood going off the deep end. Wonder how his defenders will defend this. Good bit of visual story telling, with Winter and Harriet's "Oh Jesus Christ, did he really just do that?" expression. Although this might be telegraphing a face turn from Winter and Ace Ops to heavily.

Ultimately an ok start to the season. Decently sets up the mood but kind of uneventful. I don't know how well this darker season (especially judging by the opening) will work out. V5 and V6 were the only unambiguous wins for Ruby and pals, and the events of V7 more or less nullified those wins and it looks like things are going to get worse for them.

I understand that you have to things to ratchet up the tension, especially for a supposedly insurmountable menace like Salem. But it need balance, at least have the heroes have something?

Edited by Gaogaigar54 on Nov 7th 2020 at 9:44:31 AM

I mean Cinder only now getting backstop isn't that uncommon. Look at the Tobi reveal and how long it took in Naruto for his real name to be discovered.

Not reading any of the responses before posting so here we go.

Edited by RebelFalcon on Nov 7th 2020 at 5:09:09 AM

I also thought the woman at the start was Cinder, for... all of the reasons, but that doesn't really seem to gel with the rest of the episode?

Did anyone call the whale Grimm being a ship?

Yep, Neo's ending up on the heroes' side. RWBY's trademark subtlety at work.

Lindsay's Ruby voice this volume sounds deeper, more adult. I wonder if that's intentional, or if she's just regressing to her natural voice?

Who the hell are this eyepatch woman and this dog Faunus? They're clearly none of the Happy Huntresses, but the photo's so prominent throughout the episode they must mean something.

And Ironwood kills Sleet for no reason... the fuck?! That's such an utterly baffling Kick the Dog moment he might as well have shot an actual puppy. And I expect it'll never be mentioned again, despite the fact that I can't think of a Real Life regime that wouldn't be running damage control, either slandering Sleet or finding a scapegoat.

The opening seems to suggest the split in this episode is going to last a while... breaking up both the major couples will... not at all shut the shippers up, but nice try.

I think I said when the V7 premiere aired that "Trust Love" didn't stick in my head the way "Rising" had, but now "Trust Love" is playing on loop in my head. I guess I just got used to it. In any case, I think "Rising" clicked instantly (as did, in particular, "Time to Say Goodbye"), and this one doesn't, but it's damn solid and I'll give it time. I think I'm pretty much the only viewer who dislikes "When It Falls" - I'd still put it dead last among openings - so don't trust me.

Anyway, it looks like Whitney and Willow are going to have a more prominent role?

Kid Cinder had pigtails

I feel the need to point this out as I consider it important Information.

Seems fairly in line with Ironwood trying to kill Oscar, for trying to talk him down, last volume.

He seems so entrenched in his "I'm right and won't tolerate any other view" attitude, that disagreeing with him is know enough to get you killed.

Edited by Gaogaigar54 on Nov 7th 2020 at 12:38:58 PM

Rewatching, I feel like this opening achieves what in my mind (and again, I know I'm all but unique in this) "When It Falls" failed to, with its "ow the edge" lyrics. The music, though, doesn't grab me.

Also, I forgot to mention - Winter's design is changing. Some think she'll be the "Will Scarlet" of the Happy Huntresses, and it's looking more likely.