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Politics in Media - The Good, the Bad, and the Preachy

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This thread's purpose is to discuss politics in works of fiction/media. Please do not use this thread to talk about politics or media in isolation from each other.

REMINDER: US politics is a banned topic. Mentioning or alluding to it will get you thumped or suspended

     Original OP 
I felt we needed a place to discuss this because a lot of us love discussing the politics behind stories both intended or unintended. We all love discussing it and its nice to have a place to discuss it in these charged times.

I was thinking of asking what people thought were the most interesting post-election Trump related media.

The Good Fight on CBS Access devoted their entire second season to dealing with the subject.

Edited by kory on Feb 26th 2025 at 5:46:51 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#61401: Sep 12th 2025 at 8:42:04 AM

[up] You, in this analogy, are not a godlike being who is capable of sorting out whatever's going on with your neighbor, but are just too busy. Regardless, if you know the cops have a reputation for killing people (gee, never heard that one before), and you call them on your neighbor anyway, you may not be legally liable for what happens, but you're probably going to lose a bit of sleep over it.

Here's how to do the immigrant thing in a nuanced manner, by the way. Free writing advice, you don't even have to credit me: Have the B-plot be an immigration crisis. Then Superman having the immigrant card pulled against him, while he's doing his best to solve that crisis, wouldn't seem as pulled out of a rectum.

Also, yes, I'm well aware that Superman is a Jewish metaphor. But the shitheads that we're talking about on social media who get up in arms about the "wokeness" of the movie don't know or care about that, and if Lex Luthor is supposed to be an allegory for evil techbros, they don't know or care either. You can't guilt-trip them; it's not physiologically possible.

Edit: It's especially goofy in this context that the film chose the B-plot antagonists to be an unsubtle stand-in for Israel. "So, Mr. Gunn, your message is that Jews in their adopted homeland are irredeemable monsters worthy of summary execution for trying to drive tanks over children, but Jewish immigrants to America are noble individuals who shouldn't be subjected to irrational prejudice. On it!"

Edit 2: The film works, barely, if we take it as Superman trying to uphold a personal moral code that the world around him, other superheroes, and even his parents (biological and adopted) have moved on from (or never held in the first place).

Edited by Fighteer on Sep 12th 2025 at 12:57:04 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#61402: Sep 12th 2025 at 8:48:02 AM

So, the ending of Superman 2 is taken straight from the comics? I should have realized. But of course, it's an alternate universe, so there's plausible deniability.

The film's ending actually predates the comic book version killing Zod by eight years.

The Eradicator and Cyborg Superman from the Death of Superman storyline

Would those two count? They're just villains who happen to dress like Superman. Not even clones or alternate universe doppelgangers.

Gunn has also said his Superman will kill if he has to, so it's not an option off the table for him.

I think it's because Superman is considered the paragon and moral authority of the DC verse. So when he breaks bad, it's a sign that the whole universe is heading in a bad direction.

Ironically, this makes Superman more of a Jesus figure than if he's just someone who is good but not perfect like Snyder, Smallville and DCAU Superman are portrayed as.

Edited by windleopard on Sep 12th 2025 at 5:03:38 PM

doineedaname from Eastern US Since: Nov, 2010
#61403: Sep 12th 2025 at 10:04:02 AM

[up][up] I havent looked into it, but I've seen it said when the timing of the writing and filming predate that and was intended to be a Ukraine and Russia stand in. Hawkgirl notably flies past an Orthodox Church before killing the dictator if the internet isn't lying.

Edited by doineedaname on Sep 12th 2025 at 1:07:30 PM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#61404: Sep 12th 2025 at 10:12:35 AM

[up] Okay, but in execution, they're as I-P coded as it's possible to get without putting the literal flags of each respective state in frame.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
HeyMikey Since: Jul, 2015
#61405: Sep 12th 2025 at 10:16:26 AM

[up][up][up][up] Again, Superman was preoccupied with the end of the world. If I called the police because myself and everyone I could call on are preoccupied (like we were all on travel and couldn't check ourselves) and we have concerns, we start considering less than ideal solutions. What is Superman supposed to do? Go to Jarhanpur and risk the end of the world? Go deal with the rift and let Boravia slaughter the Jarhanpurians? Some third solution you think is most logical and most obvious that Superman was a fool not to think up? Superman is powerful, but he's not omnipotent.

We also don't know if Clark lost sleep, because the story ended just after the main plot was resolved. What future issues that will come up has yet to be explored.

Also, it's not an iron clad rule of writing that the B plot's theme has to parallel something in the A-plot. Sometimes, the B-plot can explore something else to be a break from the main plot. Sometimes the themes tie in together to make them stronger, but other times it's different to explore other characters and their desires while also providing some downtime while the main plot simmers. Plenty of movies do that.

Guardians of the Galaxy 2 for instance had 5 plot points, Yondu dealing with a mutiny while dealing with emotional baggage from his past, Gamora and Nebula having sister issues, Mantis and Drax budding relationship, Rocket acting out because he doesn't want to have an attachment be lost, and Peter and his dad. Not all of them feed into each other or acts as parallels to each other.

Or Forrest Gump, where we had the main plot of Forrest meandering through life and the strange things he takes on in his cheerfully oblivious way, and two side plots of Jenny struggling through life and all its hardships, and Lt. Dan feeling he has a family destiny to live up to, failing it, becoming depressed, before finding new purpose and coming to terms with his sense of self and his faith. Lt. Dan in particular had no strong ties to Forrest's plot other than being another point in Forrest's life and them being friends, but Dan's struggles formed a strong emotional piece to the film.

Also James is very known for writing characters with different moral philosophies and having them interact and working together. His other heroes in this universe include Suicide Squad, Creature Commandos and Peacemaker. Many of them are known murderers. Just because one of the heroes is very pro-execution (and honestly, Superman is a bit outnumbered on that front) doesn't mean he's implying any of them are objectively wrong or that Superman is a hypocrite for making the best of a very bad situation.

Edited by HeyMikey on Sep 12th 2025 at 11:31:56 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#61406: Sep 12th 2025 at 10:24:40 AM

[up] I acknowledge that the situation left him little choice. That's fine. My point is that if Superman holds himself up as a paragon of justice, he should take the Justice Gang to task over Boravia. By ending before we see that, the film is chickening out of the reckoning. I said earlier that if the inevitable sequel opens with them in prison, I'd be more satisfied.

Those other metahumans in the Gunnverse, by the way, don't show up in this movie. Without that, and without their actions being referenced, it's useless to compare them.

Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 2 wasn't trying to make grandiose moral points, so the comparison is irrelevant.

Edit: Moving this to a new post.

Edited by Fighteer on Sep 12th 2025 at 1:37:50 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
doineedaname from Eastern US Since: Nov, 2010
#61407: Sep 12th 2025 at 10:25:02 AM

[up[up] Actually found out there's a quote from James Gunn about it:

"When I wrote this the Middle Eastern conflict wasn’t happening. So I tried to do little things to move it away from that, but it doesn’t have anything to do with the Middle East."

LoneCourier0 The Wandering Geek from A Diverse Land (Unitroper) Relationship Status: How YOU doin'?
The Wandering Geek
#61408: Sep 12th 2025 at 10:25:59 AM

I think you're missing the nuance of Supes' "No-kill" rule in this instance. It may be optimistic, sure, but Supes can still be pragmatic enough to understand when one time it can't be applied.

"Cynicism is not realistic and tough. It's unrealistic and kind of cowardly because it means you don't have to try."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#61409: Sep 12th 2025 at 10:33:02 AM

[up][up] Well, Gunn should have told that to his casting and location departments, because they clearly believed they were making stand-ins for Israel and Palestine. It's even more blatant than the enemy in Top Gun: Maverick being Iran.

Also, that conflict has been going on for as long as Gunn has been alive. I simply don't believe him.

[up] Can he, though? He rescues a squirrel. While a giant monster is attacking Metropolis. A monster that the Justice Gang kill despite his protests. This isn't ambiguous.

Edited by Fighteer on Sep 12th 2025 at 1:34:35 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#61410: Sep 12th 2025 at 11:44:33 AM

Both the TV version and Donner cut of Superman II had the villains surviving so I never assumed they died to begin with. (They got arrested by the Arctic Patrol.)

Edited by lalalei2001 on Sep 12th 2025 at 2:47:12 PM

The Protomen enhanced my life.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#61411: Sep 12th 2025 at 11:57:22 AM

Seriously? They fell down a Bottomless Pit. I admit to not watching every released version of that thing, but my goodness, someone is averse to challenging moral questions.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#61412: Sep 12th 2025 at 12:02:42 PM

Disney Villain Death is pretty common but so is Never Found the Body so it was 50-50, really.

The Protomen enhanced my life.
Patar136 Hero of the Winds from A Nice House on Outset Island Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
Hero of the Winds
#61413: Sep 12th 2025 at 2:47:50 PM

Gunn is out of his mind if he said that. It’s very clearly, two middle eastern countries/regions I don’t want to name, as the commentary. I think that response is a HR move to avoid having to discuss the increasingly political nature of said conflict. If he was honest he’d be pissing off too many people.

Superman is no more responsible for the deaths of people in other countries than Batman is for other superhero’s not following his code of ethics.

Edited by Patar136 on Sep 12th 2025 at 2:48:56 AM

I discover my own destiny as I command the winds of life!
LoneCourier0 The Wandering Geek from A Diverse Land (Unitroper) Relationship Status: How YOU doin'?
The Wandering Geek
#61414: Sep 12th 2025 at 2:54:56 PM

I mean, you know that film development can take quite a while to develop, and there are no indications that Superman 2025 had reshoots.

"Cynicism is not realistic and tough. It's unrealistic and kind of cowardly because it means you don't have to try."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#61415: Sep 12th 2025 at 2:55:30 PM

I totally believe Gunn..is lying through his teeth to avid getting nagged for being on a 'political' soapbox and being vague about his influences is absolutely necessary

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#61416: Sep 12th 2025 at 3:58:32 PM

I just have to say, Lex Luthor in this movie is a perfect example of how much tech bros are losers.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#61417: Sep 12th 2025 at 4:01:33 PM

Losers that keep getting enabled by pretty much everyone.

Wake me up at your own risk.
KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#61418: Sep 12th 2025 at 4:15:52 PM

[up][up]Tony Stark pre-Avengers: Infinity War is the image techbros use to fool the world. Nicholas Hoult's Lex Luthor is what techbros truly are as real life events have shown.

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#61419: Sep 12th 2025 at 4:57:03 PM

It's funny that Elon Musk got a cameo in Iron Man 2 way before the mid 10s, but Tony just ignores him and moves on.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
PhoenixAct Since: Feb, 2011
#61420: Sep 12th 2025 at 5:47:32 PM

I do want them to do John Henry Irons at some point, because the sort of blue-collar engineer image makes for a nice counterpoint.

Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#61421: Sep 12th 2025 at 5:55:06 PM

They could do an adaptation of Absolute Superman, though that'd be a much darker story.

MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#61422: Sep 12th 2025 at 6:27:09 PM

After Man of Steel I'm certain they would botch Abs Supes somehow.

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#61423: Sep 12th 2025 at 7:11:46 PM

Wait a minute, Elon Musk in Iron Man 2 got ignored by Tony Stark?

This explains everything! He's yet another person who became a supervillain after Tony slighted him!

Leviticus 19:34
KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#61424: Sep 12th 2025 at 7:22:11 PM

[up][up][up]They would've swapped Lex with Ra's in that case.

[up]X-Men also had a Chinese techbro supervillain who got pissed off because Krakoa terraformed and colonized Mars 1st before he did and he also stole Tony's company and technology from under him. He was still unaware that the Sentinels would've killed him along with every non-Sentinel they could get their hands on in order to reach singularity. Yes, even with reaching machine singularity the Sentinels' answer to it is still genocide.

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#61425: Sep 12th 2025 at 7:41:04 PM

The Sentinels were created to be genocide machines. No matter what they never seem to be able to move on from that.

Disgusted, but not surprised

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