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Politics in Media - The Good, the Bad, and the Preachy

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This thread's purpose is to discuss politics in works of fiction/media. Please do not use this thread to talk about politics or media in isolation from each other.

REMINDER: US politics is a banned topic. Mentioning or alluding to it will get you thumped or suspended

     Original OP 
I felt we needed a place to discuss this because a lot of us love discussing the politics behind stories both intended or unintended. We all love discussing it and its nice to have a place to discuss it in these charged times.

I was thinking of asking what people thought were the most interesting post-election Trump related media.

The Good Fight on CBS Access devoted their entire second season to dealing with the subject.

Edited by kory on Feb 26th 2025 at 5:46:51 AM

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#61376: Sep 12th 2025 at 6:47:50 AM

Eh. Could be the wrong Aryan type. After all "whiteness" itself is a spectrum.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#61377: Sep 12th 2025 at 6:49:32 AM

I think I realize why the DCAU example of Superman trying to kill someone isn't so off-putting.

It's because it's deliberately framed by the narrative as wrong. Supes is acting very much unlike his usual self and for understandable reasons throughout that episode. It's treated as a character flaw albeit a sympathetic one.

Contrast with Man of Steel when Superman kills Zod. It's treated as a heat of the moment last resort that doesn't really say anything about Clark's moral fiber. It just happens for shock value and because movie villains don't tend to live to the end of the movie anyway.

The comics did it much better in the early storyline (Superman #22) in which he executed three Kryptonian war criminals in an alternate universe. The three had just murdered everyone on that universe's Earth, and they taunted Clark by saying they'd do the same to the Earth of his universe. The Phantom Zone Projector was destroyed so Clark couldn't just shove them back into the Phantom Zone.

The three had been temporarily depowered, but they promised that when their powers returned, Clark's world would die. And Clark already knew first-hand that he was no match for all three of them together.

So while they were weak and vulnerable, Clark made the deliberate decision to play judge, jury...and executioner. He killed all three by exposing them to Kryptonite.note 

Edited by M84 on Sep 12th 2025 at 9:52:03 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#61378: Sep 12th 2025 at 6:51:48 AM

Something else I've noticed about people who hate Evil Superman stories is that they ignore when Superman isn't the only hero who is evil in a story. Justice Lord Superman was enabled by his teammates, and I don't see Flash, Hal Jordan, Hawkgirl, Aquaman, Cyborg and Shazam fans complaining that those games ruined them.

Even Brightburn hints at other evil takes on classic DC superheroes besides Brandon (the evil Superman of the film).

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#61379: Sep 12th 2025 at 6:53:00 AM

I think it's because Superman is considered the paragon and moral authority of the DC verse. So when he breaks bad, it's a sign that the whole universe is heading in a bad direction.

Edited by M84 on Sep 12th 2025 at 9:54:09 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#61380: Sep 12th 2025 at 6:59:35 AM

I think it was also mentioned earlier either here in this thread or on the DCU thread that while Superman being seen as being quick to resort to killing is a bad thing, there's not much taboo with Hawkgirl explicitly killing the Boravian president not just because he truly is a reprehensible trashbag but because Hawkgirl herself is relatively low-powered and easier to deal with if she goes too far.

[up]I think that's even the theme in the current DC Comics status quo with Superman universally representing good in the multiverse and Darkseid equally representing evil.

Edited by KRider on Sep 12th 2025 at 10:02:29 PM

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#61381: Sep 12th 2025 at 7:01:11 AM

[up] So... it's okay to commit murder if someone stronger can murder you back? I'm going to use that in court at my hypothetical trial, see how it flies.

Yes, I know Superman is not subject to human legal jurisdiction, thank you pedantry corner, but he acts like he is, and so we should hold him to his own moral position.


ETA: So, the ending of Superman 2 is taken straight from the comics? I should have realized. But of course, it's an alternate universe, so there's plausible deniability.

Edited by Fighteer on Sep 12th 2025 at 10:04:20 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#61382: Sep 12th 2025 at 7:01:54 AM

its because !Evil Superman has been done too many times and is the least interesting thing you can do with the character

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#61383: Sep 12th 2025 at 7:04:38 AM

[up][up]There's zero pushback when Tony Stark kills anyone in the MCU so fair game.

I'm only comparing fan feedback between Superman killing in Man of Steel vs Hawkgirl killing in Superman. If this discussion is going to be nothing but throwing hissy fits over a superhero who's universally presented as morally good going up against 1 of the most realistic depictions of a techbro billionaire then we're all just going to argue in circles.

Edited by KRider on Sep 12th 2025 at 10:07:19 PM

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#61384: Sep 12th 2025 at 7:05:57 AM

[up][up]It is kind of overplayed at this point. Even if you just go with DC examples:

  • Ultra-Man of the Crime Syndicate

  • DCAU's Justice Lord Superman

  • The Eradicator and Cyborg Superman from the Death of Superman storyline

  • Superboy-Prime

  • Injustice Regime Superman

So, the ending of Superman 2 is taken straight from the comics? I should have realized. But of course, it's an alternate universe, so there's plausible deniability.

It happens in an alternate universe, but the Superman who kills the three was the "main" Superman.

Edited by M84 on Sep 12th 2025 at 10:07:20 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#61385: Sep 12th 2025 at 7:06:46 AM

I haven't the new movie, but:

Actually, I think Superman allowing other people to use lethal force in his stead is generally a sensible approach. Thou Shalt Not Kill is an absolutely unreasonable position for humanity at large...but if you treat it as a personal code instead it at least gets around that problem.

Leviticus 19:34
KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#61386: Sep 12th 2025 at 7:08:52 AM

[up][up]There's also more if we include other universes. Even Marvel had them in most versions of Hyperion.

Edited by KRider on Sep 12th 2025 at 10:09:27 PM

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
PointMaid Since: Jun, 2014
#61387: Sep 12th 2025 at 7:09:23 AM

This moved on, but... yeah, I would not call Superman, Aryan coded. White/white passing, yes. Especially given the time period of creation and creators, I'd say he's very heavily *Jewish* coded, specifically highly assimilated and passing Jewish in a non-Jewish majority culture. YMMV for later versions, as always for comics, but I think the basic origin story and premise is pretty clear.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#61388: Sep 12th 2025 at 7:14:59 AM

Kal's even a Moses analogue for crying out loud. Although unlike Moses he doesn't really have any of his people left whom he could lead to a Promised Land.

Edited by M84 on Sep 12th 2025 at 10:15:26 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#61389: Sep 12th 2025 at 7:15:34 AM

[up][up][up][up]Superman also neither explicitly ordered the Justice Gang to use lethal force nor did he explicitly give them his blessing to do so contrary to what's being insinuated here on this thread. He was too busy trying to stop Lex's black hole from expanding to eat the whole planet, which Lex triggered on purpose so Superman couldn't stop the Boravian military from genociding the Jarhanpurians. It just so happened that Mr Terrific was the physically closest hero to him when Lex triggered the black hole and so he was the only 1 he could ask for help.

Edited by KRider on Sep 12th 2025 at 10:16:17 PM

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
LoneCourier0 The Wandering Geek from A Diverse Land (Unitroper) Relationship Status: How YOU doin'?
The Wandering Geek
#61390: Sep 12th 2025 at 7:15:56 AM

Yeah. Claiming he's Aryan coded is disingenuous.

"Cynicism is not realistic and tough. It's unrealistic and kind of cowardly because it means you don't have to try."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#61391: Sep 12th 2025 at 7:19:15 AM

Fair enough, although White Christians have claimed Jesus and Moses for centuries when both of them would have been brown-skinned — and Jewish — so it feels intensely specious at this point. I mean, it's obviously specious from the get-go, but the arguments aren't even trying to make logical sense.

There's zero pushback when Tony Stark kills anyone in the MCU so fair game.

I'm only comparing fan feedback between Superman killing in Man of Steel vs Hawkgirl killing in Superman. If this discussion is going to be nothing but throwing hissy fits over a superhero who's universally presented as morally good going up against 1 of the most realistic depictions of a techbro billionaire then we're all just going to argue in circles.

We've talked about vigilante superheroes plenty of times in this thread; I'm not going to rehash that entire argument. But Tony Stark doesn't take the moral position that killing is an uncrossable line. Quite the opposite, in fact. So, he himself is not being a hypocrite when he executes terrorists.

And I'm sorry, I do not buy that Superman should be fine with Hawkgirl killing the president of Boravia. If he'd been there, he wouldn't have done it. In fact, that's exactly what kicked off the plot of the movie.

If we're indulging in the metaphors, it's like a man saying, "I could never shoot my dog," then handing the gun to his neighbor and saying, "You shoot my dog."

Superman is not living up to his own professed morality. That's the entire point. I only brought up legal justice to show that his excuses wouldn't fly in a hypothetical trial.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#61392: Sep 12th 2025 at 7:20:30 AM

We also earlier talked about in the forums how white supremacists see their respective ethnicities as the epitome of whiteness (and Nordic people as the 2nd best white race according to non-Nordic white supremacists) and the rotten totem pole goes down for other white races but certain races who can naturally gain white skin have universally never been and will never be considered white which are Jews, Arabs, Persians, pretty much everyone from the Middle East.

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#61393: Sep 12th 2025 at 7:25:06 AM

We could talk all day about how right-wingers like to hold up the Jewish State against the filthy Muslims while simultaneously being horrendously racist against Jews, but that would go down a banned rabbit hole. Categorism has a totem pole, film at eleven.

Lex Luthor's antagonism in Superman (2025) isn't an antisemitism metaphor — that I could detect, anyway. He's an asshole, full stop. (I also think it's insane that this is how people imagine tech bro billionaires to be, but that's another digression that I'm going to shun.)

Everyone in the movie is a blatant caricature, leaving no gaps for anything resembling nuance to slip through.

Edited by Fighteer on Sep 12th 2025 at 10:26:23 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#61394: Sep 12th 2025 at 7:25:41 AM

[up][up][up]As repeated multiple times, which you keep ignoring and which is why this keeps going around in circles, is that Superman did not order Hawkgirl to kill the Boravian president contrary to what you keep insisting. He literally could not be in 2 places at once with Lex triggering the black hole specifically so he can't save the Jarhanpurians and the only superhero on hand at that moment was Mr Terrific who of course will call his teammates instead of the Flash or Batman.

Edited by KRider on Sep 12th 2025 at 10:26:19 PM

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#61395: Sep 12th 2025 at 7:27:56 AM

[up]He holds himself up as morally accountable. It's not a legal argument; it's about his representation of his own standards. He refuses to kill but looks the other way while other heroes do. So, his stance is at best self-serving and at worst hypocritical.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
LoneCourier0 The Wandering Geek from A Diverse Land (Unitroper) Relationship Status: How YOU doin'?
The Wandering Geek
#61396: Sep 12th 2025 at 7:31:33 AM

I mean, we don't know what his reaction is like if he discovers Hawkgirl killed Ghurkov so...

"Cynicism is not realistic and tough. It's unrealistic and kind of cowardly because it means you don't have to try."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#61397: Sep 12th 2025 at 7:41:09 AM

Maybe in the sequel, he'll have arrested the Justice Gang and put them in Super Prison for murder. That would at least mean he's upholding his own standards.

I'm pretty sure a lot of squirrels died when that black hole opened up under Metropolis, by the way.

Edited by Fighteer on Sep 12th 2025 at 10:42:50 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
PointMaid Since: Jun, 2014
#61398: Sep 12th 2025 at 7:54:27 AM

Lex Luthor's antagonism in Superman (2025) isn't an antisemitism metaphor — that I could detect, anyway. He's an asshole, full stop.

Antisemitism specifically, no. Xenophobic and anti-immigrant, as in, well, most Luthor portrayals? I'd say yes.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#61399: Sep 12th 2025 at 8:04:03 AM

Maybe it would become more apparent on a rewatch, but in my first viewing, I wasn't sure if he was using anti-immigrant rhetoric genuinely or just as a way to emotionally charge his arguments for his audience. His hate for Superman seems more fundamental: he can't accept that anyone with power would be a good person.

If he genuinely hates immigrants, it's not really emphasized. Maybe the movie should have shown him being antagonistic toward an immigrant who wasn't Superman. Superman isn't a good target for general points, of any flavor.

Edited by Fighteer on Sep 12th 2025 at 11:05:36 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
HeyMikey Since: Jul, 2015
#61400: Sep 12th 2025 at 8:34:07 AM

So far, Superman (and Supergirl) is the only heroic explicitly alien meta-human introduced in the DCU that we know of. In Suicide Squad, all the named ones from the second squad are human. From Creature Commandos, we got a corpse, 2 human science experiments gone wrong, a sentient Nazi hating robot and Weasel. With the Justice Gang, Guy and Terrific are regularly known as human and this Hawk Girl is Kendra Saunders whose most common background is a human who is reincarnated from an Egyptian priestess. We haven't gotten into Metamorpho's background either, but he's normally human too, either science experiment or weird artifact.

The surface emotions would still work because Superman isn't human and that tracks with Lex's rant. He hates meta-humans, but he specifically hates Superman the most because he's an alien and the most well-regarded meta-human.

It also feels weird to judge Clark on the actions of the Justice Gang, when he was not given many good options, we are not given statement that he approved of their methods, nor that he knows that Hawk Girl actually murdered Ghurkos.

He called the Gang because he was dealing with the Earth being sucked into a black hole, so he was left with the option of letting them be slaughtered or calling a favor from the only allies he had access to.

We don't know what Clark told him to do, only that he called them. Saying Clark is responsible for the Gang's actions because he called them is like saying I'm responsible for the police's actions if they shoot my neighbor when I call them to do a wellness check. He's not their boss. He's not law enforcement and doesn't have legal authority over them. I don't even think they're friends.

Lastly, the main movie plot ended just after the Lex Luthor plot. Clark was still recovering from his wounds and he never got to talk to anyone else other than Terrific when they put the buildings back together. We don't know if Clark knew about Ghurkos' assassination, nor what his reaction was if he did know. Saying Clark was okay with it is seriously taking a leap.

Also the whole perfect Aryan specimen feels odd considering this Superman was portrayed by David Corenwet, a Jewish actor, and an ironic first for this character. Light skinned or white passing ethnic backgrounds get passed over from the whiteness club all the time.


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