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Politics in Media - The Good, the Bad, and the Preachy

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This thread's purpose is to discuss politics in works of fiction/media. Please do not use this thread to talk about politics or media in isolation from each other.

REMINDER: US politics is a banned topic. Mentioning or alluding to it will get you thumped or suspended

     Original OP 
I felt we needed a place to discuss this because a lot of us love discussing the politics behind stories both intended or unintended. We all love discussing it and its nice to have a place to discuss it in these charged times.

I was thinking of asking what people thought were the most interesting post-election Trump related media.

The Good Fight on CBS Access devoted their entire second season to dealing with the subject.

Edited by kory on Feb 26th 2025 at 5:46:51 AM

jawal Since: Sep, 2018
#40376: Mar 16th 2023 at 6:06:27 PM

But you were saying you missed the Silver Age because it wasn't political and just men in underwear fighting robots

My entire post was 

I miss the silver age.

Back then it was just adult men wearing their underwear over their pants punching bank robbers and mad scientist.

And were not taken so seriously as if they were deep commentary on the political situation of the U.S.A

Can you please tell me when did I say:

"I miss it BECAUSE IT WAS NOT POLITICAL".

 Instead of:

"I miss when people did not take comic so seriously as if it was a  Dostoyévskiy novel"

Edited by jawal on Mar 16th 2023 at 2:11:01 PM

Every Hero has his own way of eating yogurt
4maskwolf Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
#40377: Mar 16th 2023 at 6:09:33 PM

There almost certainly were people back then who discussed the politics in comics seriously, it’s just that without the internet the conversations stayed within their small group and weren’t available to the wider public.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#40378: Mar 16th 2023 at 6:10:45 PM

Yeah Jawal, you are coming off as saying you just hate people analyzing for politics in media in general with that statement.

[up] As this notes, there were people who discussed politics back then, even in the newsletters that come out with each comic.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Mar 16th 2023 at 9:11:19 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
4maskwolf Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
#40379: Mar 16th 2023 at 6:11:49 PM

Also this is, like, the Politics In Media Thread, analyzing our favorites (and least favorites) for political messages is kinda the whole point of the thread.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#40380: Mar 16th 2023 at 6:15:57 PM

Yeah going to a thread like this to specifically say you miss an era where supposedly no one took comics politics seriously is not exactly productive.

Seriously, Unknown Supergirl in 1961 has some interesting stuff we can glean from the writer.

Like no one in the comic is insisting Supergirl should Stay in the Kitchen, and Superman treats her as an equal not a sidekick like Robin.

This was a pretty bold statement back in 1961.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Mar 16th 2023 at 9:20:00 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
SilentColossus (Don’t ask)
#40381: Mar 16th 2023 at 6:18:04 PM

Here's an article partly about Superman fighting the clan in that 1946 radio serial.

According to that article, it did indeed have a deep impact on how the public viewed the Klan.

It's also an interview with the author of a more recent story where Supes fights the Klan.

Superheroes, in general, have had a social justice bent," Yang tells Inverse. "Those early Superman comics, he's basically a golem. It comes out of Jewish tradition, the golem righting wrongs and beating up corrupt politicians, always fighting for the common man. You can't escape that."

The origins of Superman Smashes the Klan lie in "Clan of the Fiery Cross," a 16-part episode from the 1940s radio serial Adventures of Superman. From June to July 1946, Superman exposed Ku Klux Klan codewords, rituals, and its bigotry - all based on intel collected by activist Stetson Kennedy - before a national audience. The show damaged the group's reputation and led to a steep decline in membership from which the KKK never recovered.

Keep in mind, the Klan underwent a resurregence just a few decades before thanks to The Birth of a Nation.

Edited by SilentColossus on Mar 16th 2023 at 9:25:18 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#40382: Mar 16th 2023 at 6:24:06 PM

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/super_girl_comic.png

Here's an image from the comic I was talking about.

See? Even the Silver Age has moments like this, and people did praise it in the letters.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Mar 16th 2023 at 9:27:25 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
jawal Since: Sep, 2018
#40383: Mar 16th 2023 at 6:27:49 PM

[up][up][up]

Nothing more to say to you on the subject except that I am entitled to my opinion. Regardless if you like it or not.

Same as everyone else.

Edited by jawal on Mar 16th 2023 at 2:31:13 PM

Every Hero has his own way of eating yogurt
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#40384: Mar 16th 2023 at 6:31:06 PM

Sure you are entitled to your opinion. But I doubt hanging out in a thread just to complain about it's entire purpose and wax nostalgia for an era that supposedly had no political commentary or that no people took it seriously and looked for messages is very productive.

People are allowed to analyze politics in media in a thread dedicated to analyzing politics in media.

Why do you find it so annoying anyway? What's the point in going to this thread specifically to complain and offer nothing else?

Edited by RedHunter543 on Mar 16th 2023 at 9:31:59 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Florien The They who said it from statistically, slightly right behind you. Since: Aug, 2019
The They who said it
#40385: Mar 16th 2023 at 6:42:14 PM

Yeah, you've said previously that people shouldn't look at the political stances of a work that's not explicitly meant as political, which seems to spit on the entire field of media analysis.

Why are you here, in this thread, if you don't seem to want to talk about the topic of the thread?

Further, you complain about people taking comics too seriously. Whenever did they not? Do you have evidence people who read them didn't take them seriously? Because I'm fairly sure people who read them took them seriously.

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#40386: Mar 16th 2023 at 7:18:22 PM

...O.K, I kinda want everybody to let up on jawal so as to not dogpile on them too much but I do want to say one thing.

"Nothing more to say to you on the subject except that I am entitled to my opinion. Regardless if you like it or not.

Same as everyone else."

Sure, everybody has a right to their opinion (within reasonable standards of civility and basic decency as dictated by the laws of this website, of course) but this is also a discussion forum. It's not very constructive or adds much to the conversation to state an opinion and just end it at that. You should expect some level of response from saying something in a public conversation space, especially when, well, it involves asking for comics that don't have cultural implications or reflections in a thread exactly about that level of analysis.

I don't want to push you away, jawal, I do think there is room for fruitful conversation with you and you seem to be acting in good faith and open-minded enough to be willing to be persuaded. But...how do I phrase this? It feels like, well, you asked for your own opinions to be taken as they are but sometimes, it feels like when people try to discuss deeper implications or not-so-obvious parallels they see in books or games, some responses come off like pushing a little bit hard against their own opinions, a "live and let live" attitude that's a bit absent on the subject of political or cultural discussion about fiction.

Again, I'm not trying to push you out, I do want you to stay as I have seen plenty of people learn more and even often change their opinions after being on these forums for a while and, honestly, we need as many new people as possible in this thread. And, yes, while I do think that the very concept this thread rests upon should be up for debate as well, I'm also on record on noting the odd frequency of having to defend the basis of this thread within this thread.

If you want to talk about it, alright, let's get in the boxing ring and square up (in a civil manner), that's what makes a thread fun and lively.

But, I don't know. Be prepared for some pushback when somebody questions the idea of consuming as more then just general entertainment here (never mind that having political/cultural "points of interest", so to speak" and being entertaining aren't mutually exclusive or that everybody analyzes everything in their life, that's how you form opinions)? It kinda comes off like questioning why people care about politics in a politics thread?

Edit: Let's try this again so we can try to get a better understanding on each other: what do you think the phrase "politics in media" means?

Edited by fredhot16 on Mar 16th 2023 at 7:22:03 AM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#40387: Mar 16th 2023 at 7:33:36 PM

[up][up]The fact that people tried to censor comics in the past is proof enough that people have always taken comics pretty seriously for better or worse.

Disgusted, but not surprised
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#40388: Mar 16th 2023 at 7:42:26 PM

[up][up][up] The mailed in letters had some interesting discussion.

Like the story with Supergirl had some of the fans astonished that Superman was chill with his female cousin being stronger than him.

This story was written by Jerry Siegel BTW.

So yeah, we have proof that fans back then took comics seriously.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Mar 16th 2023 at 10:43:12 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#40389: Mar 16th 2023 at 7:42:53 PM

"They think of themselves as the necessary evil."

Not always, most of the time they see themselves a good guys who atack bad guys and is not helping by the perception towards the police: people often dont see cops as public servance or that they have specific jobs but rather they see it as guardians or bad guy takers and therefore as long it make you feel safe, they are doing their jobs, a description so abroad that very much means "if some people(usually white people) feel ok then everything is ok".

is probably why military often seen to behave better.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
jawal Since: Sep, 2018
#40390: Mar 16th 2023 at 7:52:39 PM

[up][up][up][up]

fredhot16 

Thank you so much for your kind post.

But I think it is better for me to drop the subject, at least for now because:

1-I think the point about this being POLITICS in media thread is a fair point, even if It was expressed rudely.

2-No fruitful discussion can be had without a certain level of civility

So I will not follow it further, and it was a single post anyway.

Edited by jawal on Mar 16th 2023 at 3:53:04 PM

Every Hero has his own way of eating yogurt
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#40391: Mar 16th 2023 at 8:07:28 PM

[up][up]I blame copaganda shows like COPS (1989).

Disgusted, but not surprised
raziel365 Anka Aquila from South of the Far West (Veteran) Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Anka Aquila
#40392: Mar 16th 2023 at 9:44:29 PM

For what is worth, I think it bears to mention that a story can have what we could call implicit politics and explicit politics.

Implicit politics are often the assumptions the author make for their worldbuilding, characterisation or story structure, they range from the unintentional to the unassuming. For instance, the term basement dweller used to hit double not just because of the nerd stereotype, but also because it implied a harsh degree of laziness since getting a house was easier for a young adult in the 80's and early 90's.

The explicit politics are what often comes up as commentary or fourth wall leaning that the audience might catch easier. This is what we often refer to as "politics" because it's just more on the front of a story, but how much can that seem explicit depends on how controversial it might be for an audience at the time of release and onwards.

The reason why there has been a greater analysis of politics in past media is because people are becoming more aware of the implicit politics that permeated those works and would probably be lost on someone who is not from said era.

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#40393: Mar 16th 2023 at 9:50:24 PM

It's the difference between, say, goblin bankers and something like The Turner Diaries.

Disgusted, but not surprised
JethroQWalrustitty Since: Jan, 2001
#40394: Mar 17th 2023 at 1:27:49 AM

Explicit politics is when a cop show has a Jesse Jackson expy defending an onvious criminal. Implicit politics is when the police search residences without warrants and use illegal interrogation methods and no one ever comments on it.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#40395: Mar 17th 2023 at 1:31:11 AM

The aforementioned Cops was an example of implicit politics. It never outright said that it was about making cops look good. But the fact it enabled cops to present a heavily edited and cherry-picked version of their jobs as reality helped make cops look better.

Disgusted, but not surprised
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#40396: Mar 17th 2023 at 2:24:11 AM

Does anyone feel like the tendency to treat guys being rescued by women as humiliating or funny is kind of defeating the point of normalizing that kind of thing?

Even this article about the new Dungeons & Dragons movie ends up making the idea of the female lead being the action-oriented one instead of the guy uses a clickbait headline that obscures the real idea behind the choice.

Chris Pine’s New Movie Is Intentionally Designed To Emasculate Men

“We liked that Holga is the bruiser that does the dirty work for Edgin,” Daley said, adding that Chris Pine’s Edgin the Bard “doesn’t like to get his hands dirty.” Drawing a comparison to their past projects and referring to the female use of brute force as “funny and fresh,” the duo said that they attempted to do a similar thing in both Date Night and Spider-Man: Homecoming. Deviating from the typical male leads, the writing team added that they prefer to have their “male heroes challenged and not simply heroic.”

Of course, this way of thinking will rub some viewers the wrong way with “woke culture” already being thrown around when the film’s title is brought up in conversation. Likewise, the creative team said they’ve previously faced pushback in the past because of their women taking the lead attitude from actors – although they refrained from naming names. Unlike other men they’ve worked with, they said that Chris Pine was more than happy to stand down from an alpha-male role, allowing the writers and directors to make him look “as bad as possible” throughout the film.

Well, you saying him not being a fight is emasculating isn't going to help matters now is it?

JethroQWalrustitty Since: Jan, 2001
#40397: Mar 17th 2023 at 2:30:51 AM

since the days of Dragnet, police script consulting has always come with the more and less explicit right to rewrite. My persnal bugbear has been that a lot of the shows are very literally propaganda when they take a case law enforcement was criticized over, and rewrite the plot to make it more clearcut and obvious. Early 2000's CSI and Criminal Minds were full of these episodes. Also, Law and Order SVU apparently takes place in an alternative universe where the NYPD actually investigates and prosecutes sex crimes.

[ed.][up] "emasculate" is one of those words when it shows up in critcism of anything my eyes glaze over and I stop reading.

Edited by JethroQWalrustitty on Mar 17th 2023 at 11:31:59 AM

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#40398: Mar 17th 2023 at 2:43:38 AM

Honestly I've seen CSI, NCIS and the like but compared to stuff like Chicago PD they're really restrained. Now that's some copaganda. tongue

jawal Since: Sep, 2018
#40399: Mar 17th 2023 at 7:30:13 AM

Blue Bloods will be a better example IMHO.

Every Hero has his own way of eating yogurt
raziel365 Anka Aquila from South of the Far West (Veteran) Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Anka Aquila
#40400: Mar 17th 2023 at 7:53:38 AM

@ windleopard

On personal level, I think if you want to make a point on equality, it would be better to make the male and female leads both capable of saving each other while also being aware of each others competence in the field so they know when to lend a hand and when not to.

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.

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