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Politics in Media - The Good, the Bad, and the Preachy

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This thread's purpose is to discuss politics in works of fiction/media. Please do not use this thread to talk about politics or media in isolation from each other.

REMINDER: US politics is a banned topic. Mentioning or alluding to it will get you thumped or suspended

     Original OP 
I felt we needed a place to discuss this because a lot of us love discussing the politics behind stories both intended or unintended. We all love discussing it and its nice to have a place to discuss it in these charged times.

I was thinking of asking what people thought were the most interesting post-election Trump related media.

The Good Fight on CBS Access devoted their entire second season to dealing with the subject.

Edited by kory on Feb 26th 2025 at 5:46:51 AM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#40351: Mar 16th 2023 at 1:20:48 PM

[up][up][up][up]Many dont indeed but that is irrelevant, the majority belive in democracy, the issue is for polarized people they belive their side and ONLY their side is legit or rather that is better. This create a sense that democracy is the process for their side to be chose and do stuff.

Yeah polarization require a huge demand for doublethink

And in punisher case is simple: the atractive is "to make scum pay for what they did by killing then" and that it. Is a simple and kinda powerfull fantasy in the sense of "if you can grab a rapist or a pedo and hurt him for what they did and put a bullet in his head, wont you do it?" the same of course, is why many side with light for a while.

Edited by unknowing on Mar 16th 2023 at 4:22:30 AM

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
raziel365 Anka Aquila from South of the Far West (Veteran) Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Anka Aquila
#40352: Mar 16th 2023 at 2:10:22 PM

[up]

The Punisher is a character that works best when seen through the idea of "hunting evil is not the same as doing good".

And yeah, the issue is that conservatives in general have been hit by a wave of reaffirming complexity in the last decades as the age of information has taken hold.

Dan Olsen did a video on this and the reason behind this conflictive polarization is that the people who lean conservative or reactionary resent the idea that the reality of the world is a complex matter and thus will shun reality for not matching up with their wishes.

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#40353: Mar 16th 2023 at 3:07:56 PM

The Punisher is a character who works best when he's an antagonistic foil to an actual hero, and not the lionized protagonist of a comic that romanticizes extrajudicial murder.

And it is romanticizing even if you occasionally pay lip service to the idea that Frank's not a good person. Cops don't think of themselves as good people either. They think of themselves as the necessary evil. Sheep, wolves, and the sheepdogs who kill wolves to protect sheep. When you write, "Frank is a bad man, actually," in a comic after spending 22 pages gloriously murdering human traffickers, you're just calling him a sheepdog.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Mar 16th 2023 at 3:08:13 AM

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jawal Since: Sep, 2018
#40354: Mar 16th 2023 at 3:29:36 PM

I miss the silver age.

Back then it was just adult men wearing their underwear over their pants punching bank robbers and mad scientist.

And were not taken so seriously as if they were deep commentary on the political situation of the U.S.A.

Every Hero has his own way of eating yogurt
Florien The They who said it from statistically, slightly right behind you. Since: Aug, 2019
The They who said it
#40355: Mar 16th 2023 at 3:31:16 PM

Yeah that was because of heavy censorship. It was not a great time.

The golden age was thick with political commentary, the bronze age is just reestablishing an older tradition.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#40356: Mar 16th 2023 at 3:38:42 PM

That doesn't work, because the original superheroes were created by Jewish authors as direct and very on-the-nose commentary on anti-Semitism, isolationism, and fascism. That continued even into the Silver and Bronze ages in a different form. Like basically a huge chunk of what Stan Lee and Jack Kirby wrote during that time.

It just doesn't seem like deep commentary because a few of those things may seem quaint and normal to us in the present, but back then it was as Anvilicious as could be.

Edited by AlleyOop on Mar 16th 2023 at 3:41:06 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#40357: Mar 16th 2023 at 3:41:20 PM

[up][up][up] Remember that Captain America punched Hitler in his first comic cover. When America wasn't in the war yet.

And when Spider Man fought a fascist politician running on a Law and Order dog whistle campaign.

The second was a Silver Age comic.

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/sam_bullit_8.jpg

Yeah look at this "non political Silver Age comic".

Edited by RedHunter543 on Mar 16th 2023 at 6:56:50 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
LoneCourier0 The Wandering Geek from A Diverse Land (Unitroper) Relationship Status: How YOU doin'?
The Wandering Geek
#40358: Mar 16th 2023 at 3:43:01 PM
Thumped: for switching the discussion from the topic to a person. Doesn't take many of this kind of thump to bring a suspension. Stay on the topic, not the people in the discussion.
"Cynicism is not realistic and tough. It's unrealistic and kind of cowardly because it means you don't have to try."
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#40359: Mar 16th 2023 at 3:45:29 PM

[up] That comic came in the 70s by the way, at the height of the Silver Age.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
m-95 SauaS GoodooG from my place of residence Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
SauaS GoodooG
#40360: Mar 16th 2023 at 4:07:51 PM

[up](x8)

Dan Olsen did a video on this and the reason behind this conflictive polarization is that the people who lean conservative or reactionary resent the idea that the reality of the world is a complex matter and thus will shun reality for not matching up with their wishes.

Currently watching that video (currently @ 30mins). As of now, I have to say that the mindset of "resent[ing] the idea that the reality of the world is a complex matter" is far from a specifically right-wing thing. It's something that motivates zealots of just about every political leaning (yes, this includes centrists), and it's something that non-zealous people of any political alignment are less common to act like.


[up](x6)

I miss the silver age.
Back then it was just adult men wearing their underwear over their pants punching bank robbers and mad scientist.
And were not taken so seriously as if they were deep commentary on the political situation of the U.S.A.

Bruh, if you really think media in the USA in the 1950s as politics-free, I assume you're talking about a different 1950s and different USA.

JustForFun.How To Be An Anti Hero
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#40361: Mar 16th 2023 at 5:29:50 PM

One of Marvel's myriad secret conspiracy organizations, the Secret Empire, was run by Richard Nixon.

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Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#40362: Mar 16th 2023 at 5:30:59 PM

There was no real pushback from editorial back then when the writer decided to do that either, as I recall. They were fine with him doing a political story.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#40363: Mar 16th 2023 at 5:32:23 PM

Also, and I cannot stress this enough, Superman fought and defeated the KKK. Like, the actual Klan. In our world. In 1946, he did untold damage to the Klan's recruitment by just airing their dirty laundry on one of his radio shows. He publicly humiliated the Klan by delivering real, actual information about their secret codewords and stupid rituals and intense bigotry on the air, causing a sharp drop-off in membership.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
jawal Since: Sep, 2018
#40364: Mar 16th 2023 at 5:39:53 PM

[up][up][up]

You mean Number One of the secret empire?

While the author did indeed say he intended for him to be Nixon,it never show up as such in the story.

And he commits suicide at the end too.

Edited by jawal on Mar 16th 2023 at 1:40:16 PM

Every Hero has his own way of eating yogurt
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#40365: Mar 16th 2023 at 5:41:11 PM

[up] But it's clearly a supervillain metaphor for Nixon.

Comics in the Silver age have been political bro.

[up][up] I'd also like to point out that when people say comics weren't political back then, they clearly haven't read the old ones much.

Seriously, I can give a couple of good examples from Silver Age Superman stories.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Mar 16th 2023 at 8:44:11 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
jawal Since: Sep, 2018
#40366: Mar 16th 2023 at 5:43:42 PM

Technically, Nixon presidency will be Bronze Age.

Every Hero has his own way of eating yogurt
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#40367: Mar 16th 2023 at 5:45:02 PM

[up] But you clearly saw an example of a Silver Age comic being political with Spider-Man going up against a fascist politician who profiles black people and uses the law and order dog whistle.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Mar 16th 2023 at 8:45:14 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#40368: Mar 16th 2023 at 5:45:38 PM

Oh also I guess it's worth mentioning that the debut issue of Captain America is literally him punching Hitler. It's hard to get any more political than that. Even in the Silver Age I think he was still doing routinely doing political storylines.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Mar 16th 2023 at 9:47:51 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#40369: Mar 16th 2023 at 5:47:04 PM

[up] And this was done when America wasn't in the war yet.

The modern equivalent would be if Captain America punched Putin.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#40370: Mar 16th 2023 at 5:49:07 PM

Captain National is almost always political

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#40371: Mar 16th 2023 at 5:49:57 PM

People often confuse “Not politically contentious to them the modern reader” for “not a political story making a serious political statement at the time of publication”.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#40372: Mar 16th 2023 at 5:51:21 PM

To be slightly fair, I don't think DC was doing as much political stuff back then compared to Marvel. Most of their Silver Age is indeed pretty goofy and shlocky, part of the appeal of Marvel is that they subverted that by trying to comment on modern issues and being more "real-world" like.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#40373: Mar 16th 2023 at 5:52:36 PM

I hate politics in comics, but I've long since accepted that they've always been a part of comics.

There's room for both, but like anything, you have to be careful with how you integrate it.

Sometimes you get Star Spangled Man with a plan punching Hitler on the cover of his book, which says so much with one scene. It was probably a pretty powerful statement back in the day.

And sometimes...you get Civil War.

But if there's one thing I've come to recognize: politics is in everything, and can't (and shouldn't be) ignored. Also, it's up to the the creators on how to implement it.

I won't lie. I'd be all for simpler Hitler punching style politics, that says everything that needs to be said in one scene. But it's all about execution, so if someone tries something like Civil War again and actually does it well, then fine.

One Strip! One Strip!
jawal Since: Sep, 2018
#40374: Mar 16th 2023 at 5:56:46 PM

[up](5)

Yes, the politician from that comic you posted seem to be clearly a conservative.

I like to point out, that what my post said is:

And were not taken so seriously as if they were deep commentary on the political situation of the U.S.A

I am talking about the fact, that comics then, were not taken so seriously but regarded BY THE PUBLIC more as cheap entertainment for children.

At least not until the seduction of innocents book.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seduction_of_the_Innocent

So Captain America punching Hitler or KKK appearing in a story seems irrelevant, since I talked about the PUBLIC reaction.

Edited by jawal on Mar 16th 2023 at 1:57:51 PM

Every Hero has his own way of eating yogurt
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#40375: Mar 16th 2023 at 5:57:40 PM

[up][up][up] But even then, there were messages that would make the modern alt-right youtuber froth at the mouth.

Like the unknown Supergirl. Where Superman is on the record when saying he's fine with the possibility of Supergirl being stronger than him, and tells the entire world that Supergirl is to be treated as his equal.

Heck, it's Mister Mxyzptlk's scheme to humiliate Superman by making Supergirl stronger than him, assuming Superman would be embarrassed if a girl was stronger than him.

It fails for the above reasons.

[up] But you were saying you missed the Silver Age because it wasn't political and just men in underwear fighting robots.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Mar 16th 2023 at 8:59:15 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"

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