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Politics in Media - The Good, the Bad, and the Preachy

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This thread's purpose is to discuss politics in works of fiction/media. Please do not use this thread to talk about politics or media in isolation from each other.

REMINDER: US politics is a banned topic. Mentioning or alluding to it will get you thumped or suspended

     Original OP 
I felt we needed a place to discuss this because a lot of us love discussing the politics behind stories both intended or unintended. We all love discussing it and its nice to have a place to discuss it in these charged times.

I was thinking of asking what people thought were the most interesting post-election Trump related media.

The Good Fight on CBS Access devoted their entire second season to dealing with the subject.

Edited by kory on Feb 26th 2025 at 5:46:51 AM

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#29126: Oct 14th 2021 at 4:08:34 AM

Well, my issue with the term "cancel culture" and the people complaining about it is that they often treat it as if being called out for one's bigotry is some kind of violation of fundamental rights. It isn't.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#29127: Oct 14th 2021 at 4:10:15 AM

[up]As I said, it's quite telling that the term "cancel culture" only really got popular when rich and powerful people started getting called out for saying bigoted shit.

It's just another way assholes make themselves out to be the victims.

Edited by M84 on Oct 14th 2021 at 7:11:12 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#29128: Oct 14th 2021 at 4:40:25 AM

I think another problem with cancel culture is that it's very ill defined. To a lot of people it means social media brigading for a perceived offense which can include calling someone out for there bigotry but can also include wildly different things. You end up getting lot's of people talking past one another. Obviously I don't think it's wrong to call someone out for bigotry.

Edited by jjjj2 on Oct 14th 2021 at 7:42:19 AM

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#29129: Oct 14th 2021 at 5:22:48 AM

I do feel like while cancel culture is politics in mass media, that's not really within the scope of the thread.

Edited by RedSavant on Oct 14th 2021 at 5:23:06 AM

It's been fun.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#29130: Oct 14th 2021 at 5:37:32 AM

Given how racists and bigots are compelled to inflict violence to enforce their ideas, I am not so quick to dismiss the notion that media can cause real-world violence. But it is not in the way the reactionaries of old assumed, for example, that children would be driven to mindless violence because of violent media, but in how problematic media plants and perpetuates ideas that inspire real-world violence and bigotry.

You're missing the point, the idea of media causing violence is that upon seeing violent films or playing violent games people will become violent. That is what is empirically dubious.

Spreading bigotry that results in violence is completely different.

Frankly given that I explicitly cited the KKK I'm not sure why you think I believe anything different.

Eh, as much as I don't like saying this it's actually the exact same problem for both concepts: Most of the evidence isn't reliable and what is tends to show tiny practical effects.

This is an incredible claim to make, the role that Birth of a Nation played in revitalizing the KKK is well documented. The evidence of media spreading or re-enforcing bigotry is much stronger than the evidence of violent media encouraging violence.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Oct 14th 2021 at 5:40:14 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
pi4t from over there Since: Mar, 2012
#29131: Oct 14th 2021 at 5:39:20 AM

@M84: The right certainly wants to do it, but are they actually any good at it nowadays? Genuine question here. I'm in the UK, and I can't think of any examples of the right actually succeeding at provoking outrage at individuals and getting them fired, etc, as a consequence. And I tend to read neutral to left wing news sources. On the other hand, every couple of weeks someone seems to have their life destroyed because a comment they made was interpreted as transphobic or suchlike.

I'm sure that someone could give examples of the right doing that, but they're more obscure and rarer. And given that the whole point of this strategy is to provoke general outrage against a person...their obscurity shows they're less successful.

The right seems to have more success on social stuff here when it's being subtle about it. Passing over minorities when hiring/promoting, for example. Or when it's loudly complaining about general movements (like complaining about "cancel culture" itself, for example, or morning about immigrants being allowed).

I suspect this is due to a combination of a few factors: 1) legal protection from discrimination is better for racial and sexual minorities than religious/belief-based minorities; 2) the majority of the right is older and doesn't understand how to use the internet to provoke outrage; and 3) the default position held by most of society has shifted to the left, so traditional tactics like outing someone as gay will now result in (completely justified) outrage at you rather than at your target. (Which, just to be clear, is a good thing - trying to ruin soon-to-be personally because of their sexuality, religion, etc is pretty morally bankrupt whoever is doing it. I'm trying to explain, not justify here.)

Is it different in America?

Edit: [up][up] Actually, I agree. This isn't really the thread for a general discussion of cancel culture.

Edited by pi4t on Oct 14th 2021 at 5:40:35 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#29132: Oct 14th 2021 at 5:52:00 AM

Shit, just look at all the assholes who tried to claim the Captain Marvel movie would fail. They tried to “cancel” it before it even hit theaters.

[up]That’s the thing — people getting their lives ruined by being outed as trans is so normalized in the UK that the news outlets there generally don’t care.

If they over report people supposedly being “ruined” for being exposed as transphobes, that is because they are trying to make cancel culture seem like the real problem. As opposed to the transphobia.

Edited by M84 on Oct 14th 2021 at 8:57:53 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#29133: Oct 14th 2021 at 6:10:04 AM

This is an incredible claim to make, the role that Birth of a Nation played in revitalizing the KKK is well documented. The evidence of media spreading or re-enforcing bigotry is much stronger than the evidence of violent media encouraging violence.

We owe all the antivaxxers and covidiots which cite one or two vaccine-inducing fatalities, as well as climate change deniers citing one cold winter, or for that matter racism apologists who cite one example of a black man who was legitimately shot, grovelling apologies if this standard of proof were to become acceptable. With cherry-picking you can argue virtually all causal conclusions in the world.

[Also, from what I know The Birth of a Nation was an unusually popular film and was published at a time where a lot of other factors were at play that encouraged bigotry - which ties in to the common reliability issues of "non-representative sample" and "confounding factors"]

Now, based on this and others it seems like it's fairly well supportable that this particular film drew a comet tail of hate crimes (apart from the KKK thing) behind it. But to make a general claim about bigoted media, you need a much bigger sample of evidence.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#29134: Oct 14th 2021 at 6:36:01 AM

Hell, this kind of outrage ruined critic cites like Rotten Tomato, since reactionaries tend to "swell" the cite and bombard the movies (which in many haven't even being released yet) with negative or positive reviews, depending on whether it features "strong female protagonist" or characters in general, or hell, any minority as not a background or joke character, who is supposed to be "inferior" to straight white male.

They then screenshot the results and try to use it to prove that movie is "actually shitty" and "go woke go broke" or whatever.

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Oct 14th 2021 at 4:36:44 PM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#29135: Oct 14th 2021 at 7:34:06 AM

So....I guess we all hate Dave Chappelle now?

That's disappointing. I loved that guy.

One Strip! One Strip!
Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#29136: Oct 14th 2021 at 7:38:33 AM

Nah, I don't hate him.

Its dissapointing, but I don't hate him.

Watch Symphogear
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#29137: Oct 14th 2021 at 7:39:21 AM

I kind of hate him, but then I was never a huge fan of him anyway.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#29138: Oct 14th 2021 at 7:39:51 AM

Always liked his Comedy, TBH, Still do.

Watch Symphogear
Antiteilchen In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good. Since: Sep, 2013
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
#29139: Oct 14th 2021 at 7:43:28 AM

The effects of propaganda are well studied. Claiming that media cannot prime people to have a certain affect and make violence more likely seems a bit odd.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#29140: Oct 14th 2021 at 7:43:30 AM

[up][up]I soured on him after he said we should feel sorry for Trumpists after Biden's win in 2020.

Edited by M84 on Oct 14th 2021 at 10:43:44 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#29141: Oct 14th 2021 at 8:31:30 AM

[up] Just to be clear, was he actually being serious there? With people like Chappelle, I have trouble telling when they are serious or just telling dumb jokes.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#29142: Oct 14th 2021 at 8:33:42 AM

I still kinda enjoy his comedy myself.

I think he just stepped into something he didn't fully grasp.

Like, this is a man who accidentally emboldened racists with his humour and cancelled his own show over it.

I doubt he was deliberately trying to be transphobic. Especially since he was friends with a trans woman who was also a comedian.

Rest assured, I still think he fucked up badly, and should probably take some time to figure things out before he tries anything again.

[up][up] What did he say exactly?

Edited by HandsomeRob on Oct 14th 2021 at 8:33:59 AM

One Strip! One Strip!
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#29143: Oct 14th 2021 at 8:38:29 AM

[up]

Uhm, having a minority friend doesn't give you a carte blanche to be a dick. Nevermind that he defended J K Rowling, arguably one of the most well known transphobes today.

When somebody says they're "on team TERF", they're telling you exactly what kind of person they are.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Oct 14th 2021 at 5:40:01 PM

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#29144: Oct 14th 2021 at 8:40:42 AM

Oof. Forgot that.

Ok Dave. What are you doing?

Like, seriously?

One Strip! One Strip!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#29145: Oct 14th 2021 at 9:04:03 AM

He's being a transphobe.

When people show you who they are, believe them.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#29146: Oct 14th 2021 at 9:25:12 AM

I mean, I don't hate him either, probably because I have seen next to nothing from him. He just seems like a regular dick.

It's his act, his comedy, let him do whatever he wants, that's his right, but if people call him out on it, that's not cancelling him, that's social consequences, which is their right.

Edited by Forenperser on Oct 14th 2021 at 6:26:32 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#29147: Oct 14th 2021 at 9:45:35 AM

To be honest, you could argue he's a shit comedian if he's unable to adapt his routine to a changing society.

It reminds me of how multiple British comedians (like Rowan Atkinson and John Cleese) keep complaining about "political correctness" these days instead of looking into what people are actually upset about.

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
xyzt Since: Apr, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#29148: Oct 14th 2021 at 10:11:56 AM

[up]Though the common type of comedy practiced by comedians usually insult comedy which derives humor from insulting acceptable targets, isn't it? I believe now with the growing realization of the struggles of various groups especially the marginalised that were once considered acceptable targets, now being no longer so, these comedians are upset over having to be restrained. I do wonder though that in the times when the marginalized groups were considered acceptable targets, were there any (besides religious figures) who were considered unacceptable targets even in the times old comedians seem to have nostalgia about and compare to when complaining about "cancel culture".

Edited by xyzt on Oct 14th 2021 at 10:42:52 PM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#29149: Oct 14th 2021 at 10:15:26 AM

[up]Are you agreeing with Nordmann? Because that's quite literally his point, it used to be socially acceptable to make jokes at the expense of trans people but that's changing and the fact that comedians like Chapelle can't change with it is a failure on their part.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Oct 14th 2021 at 10:15:53 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#29150: Oct 14th 2021 at 10:18:40 AM

Punching down also doesn't really make one as transgressive a comedian as they might think - because society does plenty of that by themselves or you're basically just joining in on the fun.

And make no mistake, what Chappelle is doing is punching down. And then getting defensive when society isn't applauding him for it.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Oct 14th 2021 at 7:20:02 PM

We learn from history that we do not learn from history

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