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Politics in Media - The Good, the Bad, and the Preachy

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This thread's purpose is to discuss politics in works of fiction/media. Please do not use this thread to talk about politics or media in isolation from each other.

REMINDER: US politics is a banned topic. Mentioning or alluding to it will get you thumped or suspended

     Original OP 
I felt we needed a place to discuss this because a lot of us love discussing the politics behind stories both intended or unintended. We all love discussing it and its nice to have a place to discuss it in these charged times.

I was thinking of asking what people thought were the most interesting post-election Trump related media.

The Good Fight on CBS Access devoted their entire second season to dealing with the subject.

Edited by kory on Feb 26th 2025 at 5:46:51 AM

xyzt Since: Apr, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#28976: Sep 29th 2021 at 5:10:03 AM

[up][up]I think the article seems to be angry at MHA's supposed solution being that All Might's torch being passed to the entire group of heroes rather than the burden being shouldered by a few instead of more deeper systemic restructuring. But I honestly don't see what other deeper solutions were expected. One of the main problems of that universe was how heroes were put on a pedestal and the recent chapters seem to address that as a wrong outlook, as shown by the pressures the heroes themselves have to go through to live up to it. I guess the article is angry at heroes being shown as mostly victims of that system instead of exploiters due to no focus being given to the evil and corrupt elements who would exploit such a system to suit their ends.

Edited by xyzt on Sep 29th 2021 at 5:40:20 PM

Aquaconda (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#28977: Sep 29th 2021 at 5:13:28 AM

They weren't. Heroes are not "cops with fewer regulations". There is a separation duties between heroes and police officers the latter of which still being a thing and IIRC are the only ones who can actually arrest people. Heroes have a shit ton of regulations they have to abide by. Them killing people is taboo.

The series literally points out that solely relying geroes to solve everything caused insane bystander syndrome and caused a buch of societal problems to be swept under rug, and that regular people should be involved in actively improve society. It does not put forth the solution that heroes should just be more virtuous.

Hawks killing Twice got him shit from the populace, and if Japan wasn't dealing with a national crisis Endeavor's career would have been destroyed. Hero Commission was actively keeping the general population docile using even assassination to prevent civil unrest. That'sone of the reason we didn't hear that much about bad heroes. They coverted had them killed and covered it up.

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#28978: Sep 29th 2021 at 5:18:14 AM

I've been keeping an eye on MHA's recent chapters for a similar reason as the article has pointed out, but it's in the middle of making a "statement" that might be too early to judge.

The series makes no secret that the current system of heroing is flawed (leads to bad folks and glory hounds being rewarded, etc), which is still fairly milquetoast. The villains esp as of late have made noise about being societal castaways. The series has always been reformist copaganda ish (Stain, whose ideals the villains take up, unabashedly admires "good cop" All Might and wants more heroes to be like him), while the recent chapters with the kids seem to affirm that they can be a better version of heroing than what's going on. But we're still waiting on what that means.

Admittedly I'll surprised if it attempts to pull what Brooklyn Nine-Nine attempted though.

Edited by Synchronicity on Sep 29th 2021 at 7:19:51 AM

Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#28979: Sep 29th 2021 at 5:44:47 AM

That article is god awful and shows they actually haven't read My Hero Academia at all, from what I read.

Watch Symphogear
raziel365 Anka Aquila from South of the Far West (Veteran) Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Anka Aquila
#28980: Sep 29th 2021 at 6:40:20 AM

Having seen this argument before a lot of times, I think I can give my thought on what does the writer seem to want.

To borrow a comparison from Linkara, if superheroes are akin to knights, the argument put forth argues that knights should be phased out in favour of footmen, be them pikemen or musketeers, who are under much more scrutiny and less enshrinement by the public.

Problem is, superheroes stories require some degree of individualism to work. Take that away and we would be reading a story of supersoldiers with meta powers who are not irreplaceable to the universe or a story of metahumans who have to deal with a faceless bureaucracy with their head down because this isn't about them but about the public.

And while that might work in real life, it's not exactly something that lends itself to tell a good story. It would make the story something like Dunkirk or Midway, in which individuals are put in the background in general and the main focus is in the historical event. History buffs like me might like that but I can concede that this doesn't allow for character development by its very format.

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#28981: Sep 29th 2021 at 7:12:13 AM

[up]I would argue that it can be a good story, but it's not a good default story. So you're right that it cannot be the most common setting for superheroes but I don't doubt that it can be done well with a sufficiently skilled writer.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#28982: Sep 29th 2021 at 7:26:53 AM

I think the work that's done the most interesting "are superhero stories copaganda" take in recent years isn't My Hero Academia (which, as I previously stated, is pretty straightforwardly "reform the cops") but Watchmen (2019), as its main heroes are policemen within a deeply corrupt and racist system who moonlight as superheroes. In the end, the black female cop lead has lost faith in the cops while appearing to inherit Dr. Manhattan's powers, but everything leading up to that doesn't position heroism as a great thing either (like its predecessor comic).

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#28983: Sep 29th 2021 at 9:02:53 AM

It's important to remember the "Symbolic Versatility" of a lot of sci-fi/fantasy concepts. For example, vampires can symbolize anything from the cruelties of the rich to victims of religious bigotry.

Similarly, with superheroes you have to ask what they mean in-context. They're often presented as a separate entity from the police, and frequently both entities have a lot of conflict. For example, Batman coming to blows with the police or the US government is not uncommon. Sometimes they even represent persecuted minorities and the like. To be fair, it is possible (even easy) to make a superhero story that's "copaganda".

Now, as for My Hero Academia, I've only seen up to the start of the tournament arc I think, so I'm not really knowledgeable enough to say they specifically do not. I know they're separate entities on paper in-universe, though I'm not sure what their precise relationship is like.

Leviticus 19:34
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#28984: Sep 29th 2021 at 2:45:49 PM

I can kinda get how people could see MHA as Copaganda. Though yes, if you watch things more, it's not that simple.

The stuff with Endeavour alone, if not delved into fully, can easily sour people. Like, there are people reading the series who still misjudge it.

The fact that anime and manga has a history of abusive parents who are revealed to actually not be that bad somehow has got people expecting the worst, but the series has made it clear that he still did those things, and that he should be hated for them. It's had him acknowledge that he's going to have to separate himself from his family someday too, and let them live without him.

But for a lot of people who've lived that kind of abusive in real life, the idea of portraying them with any sort of nuance is flat out infuriating, and those who don't bother to read the series will only get that cliff notes version and be turned off.

It's not totally MHA's fault. It started before George Floyd ever happened, and couldn't have known about it, in addition to being written in another country. Even then, it's been asking a lot of questions about how certain things are done in Japan and questioning certain policies.

It's just another sign of how Police have a very very long way to go before people can stomach them. Just being a good cop isn't enough anymore. I don't think it ever will.

One Strip! One Strip!
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#28985: Sep 29th 2021 at 3:49:15 PM

For what it's worth the biggest issue I had with MHA is that one kid who borderline-sexually harasses the frog chick. Admittedly I might not know the full-context there but IIRC they're commonly listed as a scrappy. Part of why I stopped watching, but I think I should give the show another chance.

Going back to the another issue:

The article seems to treat MHA through an Ameri-Centric lens, as opposed to through the lens of Japan's culture. As pointed out, it's as if it treats the work as an American work. To use a metaphor, it would be like implying Asian-style dragons carry the same connotations as European-style dragons. To use another metaphor, let's say I portray a character as a jerk by not tipping. In Japan, that wouldn't work.

Now, I imagine Japanese Police have their own issues, and I also know they have their own problems with racism, but they're not necessarily the exact same as our own.

Edited by Protagonist506 on Sep 29th 2021 at 3:49:39 AM

Leviticus 19:34
Aquaconda (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#28986: Sep 29th 2021 at 3:58:58 PM

The article seems to treat MHA through an Ameri-Centric lens, as opposed to through the lens of Japan's culture. As pointed out, it's as if it treats the work as an American work. 

This is one of the main problems with these articles.

I'm not adverse to people seeing it coppaganda, but you have to understand cultural context of the home country and also make sure you're accurately talking about the actual text.

Edited by Aquaconda on Sep 29th 2021 at 5:59:10 AM

raziel365 Anka Aquila from South of the Far West (Veteran) Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Anka Aquila
#28987: Sep 29th 2021 at 4:03:06 PM

What is ironic is that My Hero Academia actually raises a lot of subjects that are still controversial in Japan.

One of its arcs explores how Japanese values, society and culture are in part, and in some case wholly, to blame for why some of the characters are villains. We as westerners see those issues from a Captain Obvious perspective but from the Japanese one this is touching some raw nerves.

As for the matter of police, I think its controversy is mostly usonian-centric since the relationship between cops and the population varies from region to region. In the USA the police force has been so infiltrated by white supremacists that there truly is no other way to go but outright reform and cutting out the rot but that's not the same reality that other countries live.

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.
Makir Since: Feb, 2017
#28988: Sep 29th 2021 at 5:58:04 PM

This kind of reminds me of an interview with the director of Astral Chain (superhuman cops fight extradimensional invaders) and the interviewer asked if they (the developers) realized that what they were making was pretty pro-cop in its aesthetics.

The Japanese director in question sounded actually confused at why anyone would be mad at a story being portraying cops as good guys.

OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#28989: Sep 29th 2021 at 6:02:26 PM

Also one of the major things known for deep seated corruption in Japan, the Yakuza, lost power and influence and were labeled as villains thanks to the rise of Heroism, losing the control they had in political parties and the police as a result.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Sep 29th 2021 at 6:02:49 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#28990: Sep 29th 2021 at 6:19:15 PM

The issue I will said with a lof of cops is less cops themselves but the perception people have of cops of them being a sort of sociaty guardian: they are the guy out there in the limit of regular sociaty catching bad people, the guys at the barrier therefore can be see as harder people fighting for the good of all.

I think that is a crux of the issue: is not just cop being good or bad but cops getting this masive idea of being THE crimefighters rather public servant like everyone else give them a lot of unwanted popularity that they use a lot.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
raziel365 Anka Aquila from South of the Far West (Veteran) Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Anka Aquila
#28991: Sep 29th 2021 at 6:21:23 PM

This makes me wonder if we are going to start needing to include a cultural disclaimer at some point to warn about potential issues from Values Dissonance. And yes, I'm aware this sounds ridiculous, I'm only half-serious.

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#28992: Sep 29th 2021 at 6:48:31 PM

In my experience it's almost exclusively a unilateral behavior from American fans of foreign-created media, more than the other way around (or from foreign fans of other non-American media). Usually the only times this creates an issue is if the work touches on a specific historical sore spot for the foreign an demographic, such as anime's often iffy depictions of Korean characters.

Alycus Since: Apr, 2018
#28993: Sep 29th 2021 at 6:58:38 PM

[up][up] Hell, that very page already has a large WARNING paragraph in the description explaining exactly that.

This is a good example of commentators (many of them leftist, somehow) failing to understand which social issues are universal and which at culturally specific. Criticizing a Japanese work like MHA for being pro-cop makes no sense when Japan doesn't have that sort of police racism. On the other hand, criticizing MHA for humorously depicting a perverted teenager who's basically gonna grow up to become Weinstein, or being too forgiving to Abusive Parents...now those are issues that can really happen anywhere.

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#28994: Sep 29th 2021 at 7:06:45 PM

leftists
It’s because reform-to-abolish is a belief almost certainly held by leftists. Not surprising.

I agree it’s not fair to expect the manga’s text to ascribe to current American sentiments, but I think it’s also fair to examine the Western reactions to it, since it’s very popular. Like, is it popular for the “right” reasons?

Edited by Synchronicity on Sep 29th 2021 at 9:07:17 AM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#28995: Sep 29th 2021 at 9:00:33 PM

[up]Sure but I will said this is mostly saying "cops in american are really bad, ergo the concept of cops is ALWAYS bad", and I think that issue in part is because most of progresiveness ideas and taking point always come from american, meaning that when they get import to other place it can create backlash.

Now on that topic I will said a sort of valus dissonance that I see in the latin america anime comunity that is getting more and more anti PC and anti SJW is appreciation of anime as sort of "safe space" from "wokeness" which is getting right annoying a this rate.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#28996: Sep 29th 2021 at 9:08:36 PM

I definitely agree that a lot of social justice issues are extremely US (or at least, anglosphere) focused in online discourse to the detriment of other countries with different situations being disregarded, but I think it's important to make the point that problems with the police are hardly a US-only concern. Brazil has many of the same problems with police racism, violence and corruption, as do a number of other countries.

Japan itself isn't exactly immune to this either from what I understand, given the police are apparently allowed to keep suspects in exceptionally long interrogations without giving the suspect the right to see anyone until they confess (anyone who knows more about this can feel free to chime in, but that's pretty much what I remember).

That's not to say it makes sense to view MHA solely from a US point of view when it comes to its politics, mind you.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Sep 29th 2021 at 1:13:05 PM

raziel365 Anka Aquila from South of the Far West (Veteran) Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Anka Aquila
#28997: Sep 29th 2021 at 9:25:18 PM

[up]

It bears to mention that the cultural context, at least in the case of this discussion, is not provided only as a justification but also as a measuring tool to explain the weight of its message in its home country.

I hate to say it like this, but we have to remember that not every region is at the same level of progressiveness in some issues, which is why we have to judge with the regional context in mind to properly gauge the message of a work.

That's not to say that MHA is flawless, there are still some issues with its female characters being shunned in favour of male ones or some issues not being given the depth we would give it like bullying, but at the same time, I think it's a step in the right direction since, at the very least, it does feature a lot of nuances are not often seen.

For instance, the Abusive Parents subplot is not resolved by the parent being Easily Forgiven or the like, if anything, Endeavour is aware that his children are in all their right to not want anything to do with him ever again even if he succeeds in changing his ways while neither Shouto or his older brother Natsuo are showing willingness to forgive him for what he has done.

Edited by raziel365 on Sep 29th 2021 at 9:28:49 AM

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#28998: Sep 29th 2021 at 9:38:35 PM

I've been reading MHA myself the last week or so and my opinion as of volume 21 or so (so disclaimer that I'm not caught up) is that I can understand why the Endeavor stuff might rub people the wrong way (as apparently it has for years), but I also think the way it's been handled so far isn't really terrible, simply because it isn't as if the story acts like Endeavor deserves to just have all his horrendous abusive behavior brushed aside simply because he feels bad about it now.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#28999: Sep 29th 2021 at 11:23:17 PM

Criticizing a Japanese work like MHA for being pro-cop makes no sense when Japan doesn't have that sort of police racism.

It makes sense if you're talking about the American audience responding to it and applying it in an American context. The question being asked isn't "is Mr. Hero Academia a bad person for writing a story about how cops are unambiguous good guys and ignoring all the problems with the police system?". The question being asked is "does My Hero Academia deserve to be called out for having bad themes regarding police and policing?"

The original context doesn't matter for the second question. If Americans are watching MHA and applying the themes they see to American police and the American criminal justice system, then how MHA's themes apply to the American system is the relevant question there. Its themes can be perfectly fine in a Japanese context but still bad in an American context. Given that the article is clearly written from an American context and addresses American readers, "is MHA harmful in our context as Americans consuming this media?" is an entirely legitimate thing to ask.

Even if the answer is "it's fine in its original Japanese context, it's only problematic when transplanted to an American context" then that's fine, it should still be called out. All you'd be doing is saying "hey, our police don't work like that, that's why we need police reform in America".

Of course, "the police are fine in Japan, there's no systemic issues that can't be rooted out by replacing bad cops with good ones" is a hell of a claim, but the truth (or not) of that idea is somewhat beyond the scope of this thread.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#29000: Sep 30th 2021 at 9:50:34 PM

Well, I read the damn article because otherwise I would be stupid on my part:

"Before we get too far into this issue, it’s worth noting that, while legal, penal, and policing systems differ across countries and cultures, there are more than enough reports of discrimination and neglect committed by Japanese police to suggest that there are similar underlying issues with policing across the globe. This is made clear by Black Lives Matter protesters in Tokyo citing an incident where a Kurdish man was harassed and physically assaulted by Tokyo police as racial profiling. Even if Japan does have lower rates of police brutality than the US, other failings in policing and judicial systems are still present.

So, while the exact expression of police misconduct may differ depending on the region, it’s clear that Japanese society has foundational problems in their policing system that are at least similar to those found in the United States.

This is less than ideal as showing how rough cops have it without demonstrating how they’re contributing to broken systems of oppression only makes it seem like these are unfixable problems built into society.

So this are the three quote that better represent the situatin: the first one admit it is diferent both said there rough line that make the critic work the same, I dont know how muc you can said that and it feel a very sort of "triangle in square hole".

the only thing is saying one piece is anti cop feel weird, specially since it only does by mutation pirates in this "great symbol against "opresion" that is.....off?.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

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