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The Woobie Cleanup

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miraculous I am so tired of this gothic crap from South Africa
I am so tired of this gothic crap
Sep 11th 2019 at 10:48:40 AM

I too have no clue why we're doing such a large amount of bureaucray over such a simple trope. This doesn't need full-scale cleanup like this at most fix any bad examples or zero context examples but don't randomly delete examples or cite odd criteria.

Just once, I want to meet the villain in a cheerful, brightly lit room. Possibly one with kittens
Klavice As if! from Pacific Canada Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
As if!
Sep 11th 2019 at 11:51:29 AM

Alright. I shall stop the cleanup. But this will remain available for obviously false examples like Lotso, and ZCE which was my actual original purpose. And for more in depth writeups. To tell the truth, I wasn't intending for it to be a bureacratic system. I was mainly wanting to get rid of instances where literally any character can be a Woobie, even a Complete Monster. I understand the concerns and trust me, I actually wanted a basic cleanup that got rid of obvious non keepers and ZCE. I apologize for this getting out of hand. I'd be happy to take suggestions on the future of this. Should we just close this and re add everything that has a decent writeup already? Or should we keep it open for bad examples, ZCE, and constructing more succicent writeups?

Edited by Klavice on Sep 11th 2019 at 12:00:28 PM

Pending Writeups, Drafts Discussion Dates
Sep 11th 2019 at 11:52:13 AM

I mean, I'd be fine keeping it up to vet things, rewrite, and look after bad examples, but this "This hasn't been approved by the cleanup thread and must go" should probably be curtailed IMO

Klavice As if! from Pacific Canada Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
As if!
Sep 11th 2019 at 11:58:33 AM

That was the original intention of the thread so I'd be all for that. Thank you for your input, Lighty.

Pending Writeups, Drafts Discussion Dates
PolarPhantom Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Sep 11th 2019 at 12:23:13 PM


This seems resolved.

I will just say I agree with Lighty and be on my way.

Take care Woobiers.

Darkness rises and Light to meet it.
Brainulator9 Regular garden-variety troper. from US Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Regular garden-variety troper.
Sep 11th 2019 at 12:24:23 PM

I say keep. I like having dedicated threads to trope cleanup and asking "Is this an example?"

You don't mean no-nothing at all to me...
Sep 11th 2019 at 12:32:39 PM

Yeah, my only objection was forcing EP's, waiting period, etc. before any Woobie entries can be added. If something shows up that's problematic, whirl it through

Scraggle Pioneer, I guess from Calgary Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Pioneer, I guess
Sep 11th 2019 at 2:57:07 PM

We don't need a bureaucratic process for this. That seems to have been forced onto a lot of cleanup threads under ambiguous justification, I've noticed (Hate Sink, The Woobie) and I think it's transparently just because people want a CM-style voting system, even if it doesn't require that.

Just treat this the same as any other cleanup forum. Sweep up bad examples. That's how the CM thread started and stricter rules and process only became necessary after misuse so bad it nearly killed the trope.

Klavice As if! from Pacific Canada Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
As if!
Sep 11th 2019 at 7:51:38 PM

The only real issue we've had here was someone constantly adding Lotso back as a Jerkass Woobie despite the fact he is a Complete Monster.

But yeah, I'd be happy to keep it simple. Nightmare Fuel kinda works the same sorta way as a basic cleanup thread for the trope.

Pending Writeups, Drafts Discussion Dates
Sep 12th 2019 at 9:15:36 PM

Dumb question but does "stopping the cleanup" mean anyone can just add woobies now?

Klavice As if! from Pacific Canada Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
As if!
Sep 12th 2019 at 11:23:59 PM

Yes. No more waiting, no more rules, this is strictly a simple cleanup for bad examples and rewrites for ZCE or others if they don't explain what makes the character tragic.

Edited by Klavice on Sep 12th 2019 at 11:24:11 AM

Pending Writeups, Drafts Discussion Dates
IukaSylvie from Kyoto, Japan Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Sep 14th 2019 at 11:57:10 PM

It's like time to get ready for another batch to be put up tomorrow. If you have any last-minute changes or grammar corrections, please do so now.

Edited by IukaSylvie on Sep 15th 2019 at 3:57:21 AM

The Woobie Drafts; Pending Woobie Writeups
IukaSylvie from Kyoto, Japan Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Sep 15th 2019 at 5:17:56 PM


The Woobie

  • Romani Mythology: Ana, the queen of the Keshali, caught the eye of the King of the Loçolici (humans cursed by Satan). She refused him, prompting him to hunt down her people and devour them. To protect her people, she agreed to marry him, but still had some dignity enough not to consummate their marriage. The King circumvented that fact by drugging her and raping her, producing the hateful Melalo, who then goaded his father into raping Ana more times; each time she bore a monstrosity that embodies a specific disease. She was also tricked by Melalo into impregnating herself with animals on separate attempts to cure herself and sterilize herself. With the attempted assassination of the King by Ana's fellow Keshali, he allowed her to divorce him but only if she kept herself immortal, drinking the blood of three of her kind forever. As soon as she dies, all Keshali will belong to the King and will be killed. Now, Ana lives as a recluse in the mountains, killing any encroachers with avalanches. Fortunately, she does her best to protect her worshippers from the evils she bore.
  • Outnumbered: While probably everyone on this show could do with a hug from time to time, there are some who stand out more than others:
    • Frank, Sue's father, suffers from Alzheimer's, and the show doesn't shy away from showing us the gradual loss of his faculties. Early on, he seems stubbornly determined to deny he has a problem, although it eventually becomes clear that he's doing so mainly because he can't stand to see his daughter worry; he's only too well aware of what is happening to him. Over time he loses more and more touch with reality, eventually forgetting who Sue even is, as well as how he and his late wife met. His elder daughter, Angela, — whom he rarely even gets to see, and clearly misses — offered to become his full-time carer in the first season, only to run off to America when the pressure got too much for her.
    • Jane, the Brockmans' neighbour, went through a divorce shortly before the series began which clearly went extremely badly, as her husband takes every opportunity to make things harder for her, bringing constant legal pressure to bear over child maintenance and the custody of their daughter Alexa (after winning a case to make sure Alexa spends Christmas with him, he then spends the holiday sending cruel taunts to Jane over text). As a result of all this, she has become, in her own words, "what happens when all the confidence gets knocked out of a person". She's become very irresponsible and unreliable, frequently leaning too much on others; she knows this, but can't help it, and when Sue brings up the issue of her repeated failures to pick up Alexa from the Brockmans' house on time, she breaks down in tears, describing herself as a bad friend and a bad mother. Her life is basically a series of disasters — on one occasion she accidentally leaves the bath running and ends up destroying her house; on another, while suffering from norovirus, she takes what she thinks is Imodium but is actually strong painkillers — which on top of the alcohol she's consumed lands her in hospital. Her attempts at rebuilding her dating life don't go much better; every relationship she has fails, usually because her boyfriends turn out to be criminals of one sort or another.
    • Alexa, Jane's daughter, is stuck in the middle of her parents' feuding, to the point that she has become desensitized to it; in one scene, while playing with dolls, she casually re-enacts a vicious row between the two of them, which even Karen clearly finds disturbing. Her own relationships with them aren't much better; she's constantly let down by her mother to the point that she simply assumes she always will be, and her father seems to care less about her as his child than he does about using her as a tool to hurt Jane, given the aforementioned Christmas incident.
    • Taylor-Jean and Misty, Angela's stepdaughters in the third and fourth seasons, turn out to have suffered for years under their tyrannical father, Brick. Taylor-Jean's mother ended up in an institution as a result of his treatment, and out of spite, he banned her name from being spoken in the house and told his children they were better off without her; her daughter tries to act like she believes this, but she can't always keep it up and has run away from home on at least one occasion. Her sister, Misty, is utterly terrified of him, having spent years being repeatedly locked in her room for hours on end, and has developed an eating disorder as a result; Angela takes pity on her and tries to escape with her, but Brick ultimately manages to drag them both back. What's worse is that, while Angela does eventually manage to break free from Brick, the kids don't, and, for all we know, are still stuck with him to this day.
  • Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance:
    • Jill Fizzart is a misguided youth of 17 (20 in Radiant Dawn) who starts off hating the Laguz because of the way she was raised in Daein. After having several long talks with both Mist and Lethe of the Crimean Liberation army, she finds out her racism was wrong. She only joined the army to please her father, Commander Shiharam, the only parental figure she knew. As a last-ditch effort to halt the advance of the Crimeans, Shiharam releases the floodgates destroying most of Jill's home of Talrega in a mudslide. After the fight, Jill comes to terms with losing her beloved father. Later on, she meets Commander Haar, one of her father's noble subordinates who proceeds to help her in her time of need. She's an exceedingly sweet girl when she's not being an Innocent Bigot and truly cares about her friends and family. In the second game, she's forced to side with Daein during a war with her former companions caused by the Begnion Senate's blood pact, and it hurts her deeply having to go against Lethe and other Laguz. Mist or Haar can recruit her back but not without tears.

Iron Woobie

  • Steppenwolf The X Creatures Project: The Steppenwolf himself, Alan Kane, was forced into hiding after the Heruka Incident, which led to the massacre of every scientist on the Gene-X research team. He was led to believe that his wife was killed in a plane crash when in reality, she had been transformed into the bloodthirsty Heruka. He wandered the world in search of the X-Creatures, eventually coming to realize the truth about his wife and watching her die in front of him before he finally earned his revenge against Donovan.

Jerkass Woobie

  • Blake and Mortimer: The colonel Olrik, of all people, goes through a lot in The Septimus Wave. Not having recovered from the late Septimus's brainwashing in The Yellow "M", he found refuge in Miss Sing's Chinese establishment, where only morphine injections prevent him from completely going insane. The four Big Bads and Mortimer's activities with two Telecephaloscopes (one of Septimus's machines) doesn't help him; he has visions of a horde of Septimus wanting him back, only increasing his mental instability. The main antagonists kidnap him with the intention of brainwashing him again. The aforementioned Septimus horde actually exists and wants to capture him at all costs, forcing him to make an alliance with Mortimer. Desperate to get rid of the Mind Rapes for good, Olrik even accepts to take over the Mega Wave to end the phenomenon, despite risking to permanently lose his sanity on the process. In the end, he hasn't recovered from his experience and is reduced to repeating a Madness Mantra in Bedlam Hospice. Despite being the overarching villain of the series, Olrik's weaknesses are heavily present throughout the book, making him a surprisingly sympathetic character.
  • Outnumbered: While Angela starts out as easily the least sympathetic character in the show — abandoning her father after she promised she would look after him, and generally acting spiteful and vindictive toward Sue and her family — it's hard not to sympathize with her when she thinks she's finally found true love, only for her new husband, Brick, to turn out to be a manipulative, psychologically abusive sociopath who drove his last wife into an institution. She attempts to flee from him and to protect his daughter, Misty, from his cruelty, only for Brick to respond with a two-fold attack — first sending his very expensive lawyers after her, then, once she is cornered, calling her up to convince her that he can change and everything will be fine. Even after she finally breaks free from his control, her life doesn't get a great deal better, as she becomes stuck in a cycle of disastrous relationships that inevitably end in heartbreak for her.
  • Warrior Cats:
    • Crowfeather, formerly Crowpaw, is one of the cats sent by StarClan to represent WindClan on the Great Journey. He's prickly to a fault, but his troubles began when he fell in love for a RiverClan cat named Feathertail, who gave her life to protect him. After the Journey happens, he chooses his warrior name after Feathertail. After the journey, he meets Leafpool of and the two have a one night stand. Their love for each other seemed even stronger, yet Leafpool had to abandon him. By the third series, he's settled down with a third mate and had a son whom he treats poorly. After the first four series are resolved, Crowfeather breaks up with Nightcloud and vows to be a better father to Breezepelt and his ThunderClan kits. He ultimately remains Amicable Exes with both Nightcloud and Leafpool.
  • Tweeny Witches:
    • Sigma is a lying, manipulative child scout with the philosophy of The Social Darwinist. When he was very young, his father advised Grande against using dark magic and foretold the coming of a savior, only to be rejected and killed by Grande for disobedience in front of him; this has given him the belief that he has no one but himself to depend on. In the present day, he plans to betray Grande and the warlock military when the time comes for him to help the savior prevent the destruction of the Magical Realm for his father's sake. When his superiors discard him for failure — later kicking him off a high place into prison — he is devastated like any child would do as Wil calls him a nuisance right to his face, refusing to take him along with Arusu and her friends, the people he betrayed to keep the pretense. He manages to break out of prison together with his cellmate, Jidan, but not before Tiana mockingly rejects his plea to redeem himself outside, reminding him that the military has no tolerance for failure no matter what. Near the Grand Finale, he is among the people who are driven to despair by dark magic until the magic of light dispels it.
  • MW: Father Garai is a devoted priest and the long-suffering boyfriend of Michio Yuki. Garai initially refuses to turn in Michio to the authorities, believing it to breach his authority as a man of god, and assists Michio in committing many of his crimes, along with raping Michio when he was young, which, along with the MW bioweapon, exacerbated Michio's transformation into The Sociopath. Despite this, Garai clearly regrets going along with Michio's schemes, eventually resolving to stop him, and is put through continuance abuse, ending with him killing himself in order to save the world from MW.
  • Evillious Chronicles: Riliane Lucifen d'Autriche is the last princess of Lucifenia. When she was young, she was separated from her twin brother and suffered from memory loss as a result of exorcism. After the deaths of her parents, she was Lonely at the Top and only became further isolated as her tyrannical rule made her enemies. When the revolution breaks out, she's abandoned by all of her servants except for her twin brother, who reveals his true identity before getting executed in her place. Once she matures and realizes the depth of her cruelty, she spends the rest of her life regretting everything she's done and trying to atone. Despite her misdeeds, the sheer amount of humbling experiences she goes through and the fact that a lot of her tyrannical rule was due to Demonic Possession makes her a sympathetic figure.
  • Your Turn To Die: Sou Hiyori is the gloomy loner in the group. Through the bulk of the first two rounds, he's nothing but antagonistic to the other players, especially Sara. He uses Kanna for his own gain and lies constantly, not to mention how he's the one who gave Joe the Sacrifice card in the first Main Game. But like all of the other participants, Sou was kidnapped and placed into a deadly game and is just trying to survive. He's just as crushed as anyone when his attempt to help them all escape ends in failure. It's also revealed that during his first trial, he learned the victory rates of the other candidates and that his was 0% — from the very beginning, he knew that the group was going to inevitably vote him out and kill him. His distrust of the main group and especially Sara, who has the highest victory rate, is at least understandable.

Stoic Woobie

  • Tweeny Witches: Jidan is the father of Lennon and Arusu. During his research as an Adventurer Archaeologist, he accidentally fell into the Magical Realm, where he was found and wrongfully imprisoned by Grande. He secretly married his rescuer, Atelia, for love against the law of the witches, resulting in the birth of Lennon. With the help of Wil, he went on board a ship for the Human Realm with his son and the True Book of Spells in hopes of preventing further conflicts over the book, as well as the persecution his mixed-race family would face in the traditionalist society of the Witch Realm. He made it to his home dimension, but not before an accident tore him apart from his son on the Interdimensional Sea. He left his new family for the Magical Realm in search of his son, only to endure the last 6 years of imprisonment alone until he becomes cellmates with Sigma. Later, the warlocks capture his son away in his daughter's place, implicitly threatening to kill both the father and son unless they reveal the whereabouts of the True Book of Spells. He manages to break out of prison together with his cellmate, whereupon he offers himself to Luca's men in his first wife's place and secretly returns home to the Human Realm. Despite all of his predicament, he only loses his stoicism a few times.

Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds

  • Midsommar: Dani's trauma starts off with the discovery that her sister killed herself and their parents, and then only goes downhill from there. She is highly prone to panic attacks after this tragedy, including one she has during a bad shroom trip. Between witnessing a gruesome ritual suicide of two elderly members of the cult and discovering that her emotionally distant and obliviously abusive boyfriend is cheating on her, it's no wonder she's finally pushed over the edge and becomes the cult's May Queen.

Woobie Species

  • The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time: The Gorons are a peaceful race of rock people that face the threat of extinction at the hands of Ganondorf twice. When he demands they hand over the Spiritual Stone of Fire and they refuse, he blocks off Dodongo's Cavern, cutting off their food source so that they'll starve to death. Things become even worse for them seven years later, as it's revealed that Ganondorf has revived the Goron-eating dragon Volvagia and has imprisoned all the terrified Gorons to feed them to it as a showing of his power. Fortunately, Link is able to save them both times and is rewarded the title of 'sworn brother' for his troubles.
  • Romani Mythology: The Keshali are nature spirits. Once, the King of the Loçolici (humans cursed by Satan) took a fancy to their queen, Ana. When she refused, he decided to hunt them down and eat them. Seeing the slaughter of her people, she agreed to marry the King, which led to the horrific multiple rapes that produced every disease known to man. Tired of their queen's suffering, the Keshali baked the King a cake made of cat and dog hairs that impregnated him with Poreskoro, the spirit of The Black Death. With this attempt on his life, the King agreed to divorce Ana, but only on the condition that she kept herself alive forever by drinking the blood of three of her own kind. As soon as she dies, all Keshali will belong to the king by default and he will use that right to exterminate them for once and for all. Now, the Keshali are mostly reclusive, living in the forests and mountains. They bless and curse humans as fit, sometimes warding off the disease demons and sometimes killing them with avalanches if they encroach on their domain.

Header Ideas

  • Yu-Gi-Oh!: With some exceptions, pretty much everyone has undergone or is currently undergoing bullying, abuse, betrayal, torture, genocide, or any combination of the sort, and is either broken as a result, or refusing to let it break them.

Edited by IukaSylvie on Sep 15th 2019 at 9:19:35 PM

The Woobie Drafts; Pending Woobie Writeups
Stellarvore Miss me? Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
Miss me?
Sep 15th 2019 at 6:30:41 PM

Well my job just got easier. Guess no writeups for Heather and Claudia. Good thing, too, because I really don't have the time for them.

Edited by Stellarvore on Sep 15th 2019 at 8:37:14 AM

My writings
MasterJoseph Shipping FrolaytiaXQwenthur of Heavy Object. Relationship Status: Seeking boyfriend-free girl
Shipping FrolaytiaXQwenthur of Heavy Object.
Sep 15th 2019 at 11:23:29 PM

Has anyone considered potential flaws in the arguments in the past few pages?

Woobie Slayer
G-Editor 300 episodes aired from Where do you think? Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
300 episodes aired
Sep 16th 2019 at 1:54:58 AM

Agreeing with Lighty and others here. I was never all that fond of this thread being way too strict for such a simple trope and deleting any valid entries just because they didn't get a CM-long type EP. This would go so much easier if we just dial the strictness to like 95%. This would also bring more attention and work for other threads, like the MB thread, which can have no attention for a whole day due to other threads such as this

Edited by G-Editor on Sep 15th 2019 at 11:09:31 PM

300 more episodes to go.
Klavice As if! from Pacific Canada Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
As if!
Sep 16th 2019 at 2:40:52 PM

Joseph? Cease and desist means cease and desist. Don't bother trying to contest those arguments. I never intended this to be anything more than a simple cleanup thread.

Pending Writeups, Drafts Discussion Dates
MasterJoseph Shipping FrolaytiaXQwenthur of Heavy Object. Relationship Status: Seeking boyfriend-free girl
Shipping FrolaytiaXQwenthur of Heavy Object.
Brainulator9 Regular garden-variety troper. from US Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Regular garden-variety troper.
Sep 16th 2019 at 3:15:32 PM

If MasterJoseph had counterarguments in mind, I'm willing to hear them out.

You don't mean no-nothing at all to me...
Klavice As if! from Pacific Canada Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
As if!
Sep 17th 2019 at 1:53:55 AM

Alright. Feel free to post a counterargument if you have one. I've... got nothing. Aside from the fact that this was abused to an extent, and we had obvious non counters like Lotso. It's nowhere near as abused as Complete Monster.

Pending Writeups, Drafts Discussion Dates
ElfenLiedFan90 Moysey from Jakarta,Indonesia Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Sep 19th 2019 at 8:42:28 PM

Sorry for the late reply but I'll be honest that I kind of agree with Lighty on this one actually. However, for myself? I think the problems lies on the fact that there is some subtropes that I feel rather useless like Stoic Woobie, Wheelchair Woobie or something like that.

Best Manchester United Manager Ever Had Current story that I made.
Brainulator9 Regular garden-variety troper. from US Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Regular garden-variety troper.
Sep 20th 2019 at 4:52:51 PM

Wheelchair Woobie could be better used as "character has a wheelchair so the audience feels bad for them" and renamed to divorce it from the Woobie series of Audience Reactions, leaving it as more of an Intended Audience Reaction. Otherwise, it's The Same, but More Specific.

Stoic Woobie I'll have to think about.

You don't mean no-nothing at all to me...
Sep 22nd 2019 at 12:15:22 AM

(hello, I made a Woobie post for Crystal Prism a while back; is it alright to make an official entry for it now or do I need to get more votes for it to be approved before I write it in?)

(also here's another Woobie proposal from me)

What's the work?

Codex Equus is an ongoing collaborative fanfiction project that takes place in the world of My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic, but with a World Building twist. It is authored by BrutalityInc of Equestria: Across the Multiverse fame and Kendell2 (known as Godzillawolf) of the Pony POV Series fame, as well as many other writers.

The purpose of Codex Equus is to expand on Friendship is Magic as well as the previous "generations" of My Little Pony but give them a dose of Reality Ensues. Thus, the project deconstructs, subverts, reconstructs, and plays with several tropes to make both the setting and certain things more believable. For example, there are more to Changelingkind in general than just Chrysalis and her hive, and the various threats that the Mane Six face are just a drop of water in the bucket compared to other things such as "Fallen" deities, Eldritch Abominations, and brutal and domineering Giants.

Who is s/he?

Golden Scepter (his profile here) is an Alicorn Emperor who is currently the ruler of the Terran Empire, and an antediluvian god who has lived on Equus even before Known History, making him unspeakably powerful and ancient. He is also the biological father of nineteen Alicorn demigod Princes, who all Ascended at one point in their lives. While he is a highly respected and beloved individual, his long life and reputation hides an incredibly rocky and traumatic past that he spent Ages breaking away from.

What is their predicament?

Golden Scepter was once one of many divine residents of the fabled Alicorn Civilization, a completely utopian society that was populated by the Alicorns and their mortal subjects. While his early life is very spotty, what is publicly known that he was essentially a prodigy by his people's standards, and was the supreme ruler and judge of one of the most advanced empires in the world.

However, because the Alicorn Civilization was so utopian, it gradually stagnated from the lack of proper motivation besides their own successes and achievements, with the Alicorns becoming increasingly corrupt and hedonistic. Despite his attempts to preserve his moral integrity and bring awareness to the situation, even Golden Scepter would falter; among many "dishonest" things that he would later regret, he would take in both mares and stallions as his lovers, though he did try to treat all of them well.

The Alicorns' increasing atrocities would cause the birth and rise of Morning Star, a Fallen Alicorn god who tried subjugating the world and the surrounding universe to his own twisted ideas of perfection, kickstarting a brutal civil war (known presently as the "Twilight of the Alicorns") that lasted for ten Ages. Golden Scepter would fight Morning Star's faction and hide away those who were caught in the crossfire and/or didn't want to fight, saving Alicornkind from complete extinction, but at the cost of losing so many of his own friends and loved ones to Morning Star. And when the war finally ended, he chose to remain in the outside world to help locate survivors and rebuild what was left, while the surviving Alicorns retreated and completely secluded themselves away to survive.

Through his many good deeds, Golden Scepter gained a following and founded the Imperium of Ponykind, a powerful empire that was just as advanced as his old one. Unfortunately, Golden Scepter's traumatic experiences from the "Twilight of the Alicorns" would catch up with him and bring out his worst flaws, deeply affecting his judgement to the point where he became little more than a divine tyrant, and left behind a long trail of mistakes that eventually motivated one of his closest subordinates, General Aurum Lupus, to betray him and lead a rebellion to depose him. Golden Scepter killed his traitorous General, but was horribly injured in turn, which necessitated him being put in magical stasis to preserve his life until better healing methods could be developed.

Golden Scepter was instead forgotten by his own people and in his absence, the Imperium of Ponykind became a Wretched Hive full of paranoia, xenophobia, cruelty, viciousness, and religious fanaticism until it was destroyed by more benevolent forces. After many years of sleep, he was unearthed, healed, and revived by two Alicorns, Luminiferous and Queen Dazzleglow, in the Second Age, and the shock of waking up in a completely different time understandably left Golden Scepter frightened, distrusting, and hostile towards everything and everyone, especially Luminiferous, who is an exact physical copy of the long-deceased Morning Star. However, the main turning point would be when Luminiferous showed Golden Scepter the long-abandoned ruins of his fallen Imperium, causing him to remember the events that led to his being sealing away. Golden Scepter realized that he had become no better than Morning Star or his people and fell into despair, but Luminiferous encouraged him to make amends with the past and redeem himself for his crimes and sins, so he could break himself free from the mistakes and flaws that plagued the Alicorns.

This led to Golden Scepter traveling all over Equus for three Ages, including helping sapientkind survive the "Void Aeon" event by hiding away whomever he could while many heroes fought a Mad God and his minions, and learning from the examples set by mortal and divine individuals. By the Fourth Age, he has become a truly benevolent ruler who founded the much smaller yet successful Terran Empire and had a family of his own, but even though he has finally found forgiveness and redemption, his struggles are not yet over.

His beloved wife, a mortal pegasus mare named Blessed Skies, would die of old age despite his attempts to extend her life, which no doubt had an effect on Golden Scepter and his nineteen demi-divine sons. Though Golden Scepter would later accept his wife's death and move on, numerous problems would continue to follow his nineteen demi-divine sons, either through personal flaws of their own and/or external circumstances - his eighth son, Prince Crimson Star, had been an Insufferable Genius until he was blinded in a carriage accident, and nearly committed suicide by proxy by letting a few brothers who hated him beat him up as "payback". He had to exile his second son, Prince Fanged Paw, after he took his hatred of Prince Crimson Star too far. And he accidentally discovered during a heated argument with his thirteenth son, Prince Written Word, that the latter had been encouraging religious worship of him behind his back for years in a well-meaning attempt to help his subjects, despite it being officially banned in the Terran Empire.

All of these factors have made Golden Scepter to wonder if his past actions have come to haunt him, and suspects that his sons might actually be reincarnations of his Generals from the Imperium era...

Can they defend themselves/Are they a Jerkass?

Being based on the Emperor of Mankind, Golden Scepter is an extremely powerful and long-lived Alicorn god who embodies Ponykind, Psionics, Leadership, and Judgement, so he's more than capable of defending himself. He is one of the most powerful psychics in the world, to the point where it was rumored in-universe that even the mightiest of Alicorns couldn't match his potent mind. He is also a skilled fire mage who wields holy fire, which has both purifying and healing properties. He can magically boost morale and inspire people to follow him and do the right thing with just a few words, and he serves as the final authority when administering justice, with his verdicts being treated as the "final word" unless he has given explicit permission to overturn them.

Adding to this is the fact that he is one of many prodigies among his race - he is a peerless genius and warrior who is well-versed in subjects such as science, technology, and magic, and has founded three empires in his long life. Because of his accomplishments, he is rightly regarded as a Living Legend and a war hero by the world, including the Alicorns themselves.

In terms of Jerkass standards, Golden Scepter is the living embodiment of mortal Ponykind's best and worst traits, and as a result, he constantly straddles the line between benevolence and malevolence, all while struggling to keep himself in check. The Imperium era shows that under certain circumstances, he is quite capable of becoming a Jerkass on par with the Emperor of Mankind - among many atrocities, he became a genocidal xenophobe towards non-Pony races, torched an entire city down to its foundations just to punish one of his followers for encouraging religious worship of him, and was not above psychically enforcing loyalty to him. In his mind, everything he had done was for the greater good and the well-being of mortal Ponykind, because only he knew best for them. But his horrible actions, combined with his hypocrisy, ruthlessness, and cruelty, all contributed to him nearly dying when his subjects and subordinates decided to rebel against him.

His entry, as well as a few drabbles and quotes in Codex Equus, all imply that while more benevolent before the Imperium of Ponykind, he wasn't much better, either. He initially acted stoic and emotionally distant in his first empire because that kind of behavior was the norm in Alicorn society - it was the norm for rulers in his time to try appear wise, benevolent, and perfect to their mortal subjects. So when Golden Scepter emerged in the Second Age, his stoicism made him look frightening and scared Ponies away even without meaning to, and Luminiferous has to spell out this flaw and its consequences for him when he insisted on acting this way.

In the present day, Golden Scepter has redeemed himself for his sins and was able to become a loving father and husband, though he still has his flaws. He partly contributed to one of his sons, Crimson Star, becoming an Insufferable Genius by praising his accomplishments and skills, even though he was genuinely proud of him. He embarrassed and even traumatized his sons when a question from another son, Prince Emerald Lion, led to him talking about the Alicorns' sexual freedom and his own sex life. And the fact that he had flaws at all caused his religiously devoted son, Written Word, to resent Golden Scepter for not "helping" his family or his subjects until he snapped, leading to their argument (though they were able to reconcile later after Written Word realized his mistake). And despite everything, his entry mentions that he still has moments of pride; when he visits the Summer Changeling Progenitor, Emperor Blackthorn, to retrieve an ancient artifact from him, Golden Scepter spends most of the visit constantly on edge, as Blackthorn represents all the flaws and mistakes that he hated about himself.

Golden Scepter is also capable of holding grudges for even a long time. Golden Scepter's animosity towards Morning Star is understandable given how the latter caused the irrevocable downfall of their people, but it also initially caused him to hate Luminiferous, who physically resembles his "father" but has none of his villainy. Golden Scepter is also biased against sapient robots (called "Synthetic Automatons" in Codex Equus) due to personally witnessing a particularly violent A.I. rebellion that destroyed a very prosperous civilization... though it blinds him to any potential good robots can do, and his eleventh son, Prince Steel Barricade, had to keep his developing "technological empathy" a secret from him, at least until an old enemy of Golden Scepter's tried destroying Equus out of extremely hateful spite.

Sympathy Standard?

While Golden Scepter certainly had his low points, he's a flawed individual whose various experiences and tragedies were very much caused by people and circumstances out of his control, even though he himself bore much responsibility for some of them. For one, he went through a brutal civil war that tore his people apart and killed those close to him because the person who started it - Morning Star - sought to satisfy his own ego. Afterwards, a horrifically tragic combination of ten Ages worth of war-related PTSD, being the only Alicorn in the outside world at the time while surrounded by beings who are as long-lived as ants, and his inability to seek proper help for his issues, instead going untreated for possibly millions of years, would bring out his worst flaws and deeply affect his judgement as he powered through the nightmares and hallucinations that came with his trauma. Even though he does eventually find positive influences in the form of Luminiferous and Queen Dazzleglow, Golden Scepter was still essentially a very broken stallion, struggling to make amends with the past until Mentálne, the young Deer goddess of Mental Healing, is born. When compared to others, Crystal Prism, a young Alicorn demigod, had similarly gone through great suffering, but his own experiences are just a drop of water in the bucket compared to the utter hell Golden Scepter had to go through. And on top of that, certain experiences with raising his nineteen sons have caused Golden Scepter to wonder if his sons are actually his former Generals reborn, to give them the happy life that they themselves were unable to have in the Imperium era.


Possibly an Iron Woobie, considering all the horrible things he had endured, or Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds due to being a Physical God.

Edited by Randomfan11 on Sep 24th 2019 at 4:57:17 AM

ElfenLiedFan90 Moysey from Jakarta,Indonesia Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Sep 22nd 2019 at 12:19:03 AM

@Brainulator Oh! And I also remember on Polar's comment in CM cleanup regarding Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds. Honestly I can't blame him because well...WDOW can also overlaps with Jerkass Woobie

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