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You can't propose your own characters, please wait for someone to read your work.
It's in the rules.
Edited by MasterJoseph on Sep 7th 2019 at 12:39:04 PM
Correct. YMMV is off-limits to creators of the respective work.
I would like to propose Kamiko from Shadow Warrior 2 for a Jerkass Woobie: (WARNING, contains heavy spoilers from the game in question.)
Whats The Work?
Who is Kamiko/ Whats her predicament?
Can she defend herself/ is she a jerkass
Edited by Bootlebat on Sep 10th 2019 at 8:46:45 AM
Your effort post is not good enough. Please make a detailed and unambiguous case as everyone else does.
@Bootlebat You might want to bring up more information about the candidate you wish to propose. This will help us understand your candidate better and thus make better judgments when we can understand the candidate more clearly.
I'm sorry. All I have to go on is my memory (which isn't that great) and the Shadow Warrior wiki https://shadowwarrior.fandom.com/wiki/Kamiko which isn't that detailed itself.
Can someone help me? (I'm not asking you to do it for me, just what more do I need to add?)
So I added more to my Kamiko post. How is it now?
Hey! This is my first time posting here, so please tell me if I've done something incorrectly. I'm going to propose Vanya Hargreeves from The Umbrella Academy as a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds (she used to be one but the entry was recently deleted).
What's the work?
Reclusive billionaire Reginald Hargreeves adopts seven children born with superpowers and grooms them into a team of kid superheroes called the Umbrella Academy. However, Reginald is a horrible, abusive parent, and after his mistreatment leads to one of the kids' death and another's mysterious disappearance, the remaining Academy children run away from home and the team is disbanded.
Over a decade later, Reginald dies and the Hargreeves siblings reunite at their childhood home for his funeral. The memorial service is interrupted by the sudden return of their long-lost brother, who claims that when he disappeared, he time traveled into the future and was trapped in the apocalypse, which will happen in seven days. The Hargreeves siblings must work together to find out the truth behind their father's death and prevent the impending end of the world.
Who is Vanya Hargreeves, and what is her predicament?
Vanya Hargreeves, also known as Number Seven, is one of the children raised in the Umbrella Academy. Her superpower allows her to control sound waves - this generally translates into telekinesis and blowing things up - and is triggered by strong emotion. She is also the ultimate cause of the apocalypse.
Of all the siblings' powers, Vanya's was the one that Reginald was unable to control, and he was afraid she would use her power to kill him if left unchecked. So, when she was very young (around 5-6 years old), Reginald locked her in a soundproof underground cell for several weeks, then used one of her siblings' abilities to brainwash her into forgetting she had superpowers. In order to prevent her powers from resurfacing, he kept her on strong medication that essentially prevented her from having emotions, which she continued to take up until the start of the show. Throughout her childhood and teenage years, Reginald verbally and physically abused Vanya and encouraged her siblings to engage in the abuse as well (which they did, out of fear of angering their father). When her siblings left to go on missions, she was forced to watch from afar while her father told her that she was inferior to them in every way and that it was her own fault for being so useless.
By the start of the show, Vanya has estranged herself from her siblings and struggles with depression and a strong inferiority complex (partially caused by the medication she continues to take). When the Hargreeves begin their quest to stop the apocalypse, she tries to help but is pushed away: at best she is told to stay out of the action so she doesn't get hurt, and at worst she is called a burden and blamed for most things that go wrong. (Her siblings were also brainwashed into forgetting that she has powers). Over the course of the story, she gets a kind, caring boyfriend who tries to help her heal from her trauma... but surprise, he's actually a serial killer who felt wronged by the Umbrella Academy as a child and only wants to use her to get back at her siblings. Her boyfriend gaslights her and turns her against the other Hargreeves; later, he finds Reginald's research detailing her powers and decides to hide her medication to see what happens.
As her medication wears off, Vanya's powers and emotions return, and she has no clue how to control or deal with them. Vanya eventually learns that her sister brainwashed her into forgetting her powers; the two get into a heated argument, and when her sister attempts to end the argument by brainwashing her again, Vanya loses control of her powers and accidentally injures her sister.
Their other siblings arrive to get her sister medical attention, and Vanya runs away, ending up at her boyfriend's house. She finds Reginald's research and realizes that her boyfriend has been manipulating her; when she confronts him, her boyfriend starts screaming at her, telling her that she's a horrible person and that her father was right to abuse her. Vanya uses her powers to kill him and leaves.
Vanya returns to the Academy, apologizing for hurting her sister and asking for help controlling her newfound powers. One of her siblings, believing she is a danger to society, chokes her out and locks her in the underground bunker where she was brainwashed as a child.
Vanya proceeds to undergo a massive freakout (she begins to hallucinate her father and child versions of her siblings hurling insults at her), and her powers go completely haywire. Using the sound of her own heartbeat, she breaks out of the bunker, murders their father's butler (who was complicit in her abuse), and destroys the Academy. Still in a superpowered rage, she goes to perform at her orchestra concert (she is first chair violinist). Her siblings show up to the concert in the hopes of intercepting her before she does any more damage, and she appears happy to see them and ready to talk things out... until they start shooting at her.
Using the sound generated by her violin, she launches a powerful burst of of energy skyward, amplified by her fragile emotional state. This ends up blowing up the moon and turning the world into a massive ball of fire, killing everyone on the planet (sans her siblings, who escape via time travel shenanigans).
Can she defend herself/is she a Jerkass?
Without her powers, Vanya is essentially defenseless - she can't fight and needs her siblings to bail her out of bad situations, and she cowers and runs away when people insult her. With her powers, however, Vanya can very much defend herself - she uses her powers to kill a group of armed thugs that tried to kill her boyfriend (in reality, her boyfriend hired them in order to try and bring out her powers), and later she is able to kick all of her siblings' asses at once without breaking a sweat.
Overall, I don't think she qualifies as a Jerkass. Sure, she's bitter about the way she was treated as a child (and wrote a rather scathing tell-all book about it, which didn't go over well with her siblings), but she doesn't actively lash out against anyone unless she has a very good reason to: she usually just apologizes and runs away rather than fighting back.
Vanya is treated as a sympathetic, albeit flawed, figure by the narrative (and some of the other characters). In- and out-of-universe, her rationale for hurting her sister is treated as understandable, while the guy who chokes her out and locks her up is called out by the other characters and demonized by a large portion of the fandom. Her sister doesn't blame Vanya for hurting her and just wants to apologize and reconcile. As for her boyfriend, he's a horrible human being and nobody in- or out-of-universe finds any fault with her killing him.
The whole "destroying the world" thing is less forgivable, but her siblings do take her with them when they travel back in time, instead of leaving her to die. This is actually decided by the brother that time-traveled and got trapped in the apocalypse - he would be completely justified in hating Vanya for causing the apocalypse that made his life a living hell for decades, but he says that all he wants is to help her learn to control her powers.
Put Vanya back as a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds.
Definite to Vanya.
Yes to Vanya amd anyone else I missed. I added that yes, accidental woobies can exist (Charlie Brown is one as the author did not intend for you to feel for him) so it'll be a bit more lenient. But thanks mods, you cannot propose your own character, I thought that went without saying but I guess not.
Anywho, expect an effortpost of a WDOW from me soon if I'm not swamped.
Any comments on my (expanded) post for Kamiko?
Okay, being honest here....
The complete monster and Magnificent bastard tropes? Were rife with misuse when they began to require strict standards and serious vetting. Is there really, really the same need for this with the woobie tropes? It's characters one is supposed to pity, in all their forms, and to my knowledge hasn't been near the same level of misuse and abuse as the others.
This seems to be creating a whole lot of extra steps where it's not really needed. I can't really see the need for full effortposts, 2 week wait periods, etc. It just seems to be applying the effort for the CM and MB thread on a trope where it doesn't quite need it.
~Bootlebat, I recommend checking Shadow Warrior 2 so that you can make a detailed and unambiguous case like everyone else does.
Agreed. The fact that "can they defend themselves" is even a factor to being able to pity a character just confuses me.
Like...I get the need of the debate needing to be had on...okay, one of my favorite manga series...Promised Neverland? There's a character who serves children to be eaten by monsters, but she's a complex, layered, 3 dimensional villain...there's a demonic poacher who murders children, by contrast who should need be discussed for the CM trope.
But for, say, an innocent little girl who gets murdered by the monsters, or the kids who go through hell in this story....do we really need a large effortpost to determine if they qualify for something so simple?
If a cleanup thread need exist, I think it should focus more on purging bad entries than enforcing strict limits and criteria on a thread that doesn't need it. 'The Woobie' is not a particularly controversial trope, as opposed to CM which almost got cut because of tons of bad entries.
Edited by Lightysnake on Sep 10th 2019 at 5:47:46 AM
I have played Shadow Warrior 2. I'm not sure what other info I need to add (like, can you tell me which sections need work?)
I kind of feel my points are being ignored.
People are now deleted perfectly valid examples of a trope that isn't subject to rampant misuse or problems, and doesn't need the same rules and vetting. And they're being told "oh, your proposals aren't acceptable" with genuinely strange criteria.
Lighty sums up my feelings exactly.
Bureaucratic systems have a tendency to spread out. First from Complete Monster to Magnificent Bastard and then to The Woobie. I agree that it's time to step back on this a bit.
I agree. Sure, we can get better write-ups from this thread, but I'd rather make The Woobie a case of "bring up bad/Zero-Context Examples if you find them here" rather than "create a lengthy case as to why this counts, ignoring that our examples rely entirely on audience opinion."
I came here in the first place hoping to nuke some very bad weeds from Woobie.Other, if it means anything.
Yeah...I think CM and MB have their purposes because the criteria is so specific by necessity....the tropes were under the threat of collapse when cleanups had to be started. CM was just "this guy's a dick, so he's a complete monster" and magnificent bastard was just "I like this bad guy"
The Woobie is just "this is the character I feel bad for." We don't need to enforce waiting periods, Effortposts, etc. At most, just clean up bad and zero context examples and run others through here.
If nobody objects, I would like to re-add the ones I wrote up from the new IT film.
Edited by Lightysnake on Sep 11th 2019 at 10:47:46 AM
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