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Can a species be a Woobie Species if they are more like a Jerkass Woobie species? The example I was thinking of is the elementals from World Of Warcraft.
Technically they can as long as they are a species.
More Silent Hill candidates coming up.
What's the work?
Silent Hill 3 is the third entry in the franchise, and probably the most visually stunning. This story follows Heather Mason, a teenage girl who's out shopping in the local mall when she is confronted by a private investigator, who has some important information about her birth. Soon, she finds herself in a world of horrible monsters that she needs to escape.
Who is Heather Mason? What is her predicament?
Heather Mason, formerly Cheryl, is the protagonist of the game and the adopted daughter of Harry Mason from the first game. She is the other half of Alessa Gillespie, a little girl who, 17 years prior to the events of the game, was impregnated by her mother with the ancient, malevolent god of Silent Hill and from my understanding (have yet to finish the first game. Blame my PS 2 for rejecting the PSX memory card), definitely qualifies as a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds. In an effort to prevent the summoning ritual, Alessa split half of her soul off from herself, which again, became Cheryl/Heather.
One day, Heather is out at the local shopping mall and encounters Douglas Cartland, who tries to bring her to a priestess of the cult her mother was a part of so she can learn about her past. She shrugs him off and runs away, eventually making her way to a clothes store where she encounters a monster feeding on a woman's body, and she's forced to shoot it with a gun she found on the floor. After running through the mall and fighting more monsters, encountering the cult's priestess, Claudia Wolf, and being transported to the hellish Otherworld, she takes the subway home.
Or tries to. She ends up in a tunnel beneath the subway, then in the sewer, then in a creepy building where she meets a member of the Order named Vincent who has his own agenda. THEN she gets to go home, and once there, finds her father's murdered body lying in the chair. After one of the most well-executed crying scenes in video game history, she runs up the fire escape and meets Claudia, and tries to shoot her. Claudia then points to the "monster" (from what I heard, really a member of the Order that, due to Claudia's power, Heather sees as a monster) that killed her father. Heather fights with and then kills him before going back down to her apartment, and finds Douglas. She yells at him to leave, blaming him for her father's death. He agrees to leave at first, but then decides to stick around while they place his body in his bed, and Heather resolves to go to Silent Hill to get her revenge against Claudia.
Before getting in the car with Douglas, he hands her a memoir that he found on her father. While on the car ride to Silent Hill, she recalls her past and how she came into being, and laments never telling Harry how much she loved him. Once in Silent Hill, Douglas and Heather go their separate ways to search for a man named Leonard at the behest of Vincent, with Heather going to the hospital, culminating in a fight with Leonard — revealed to be Claudia's abusive Holier Than Thou father — who has been twisted into a monster by the Otherworld. After defeating Leonard, she acquires a talisman with a familiar symbol on it.
After that, she returns to the hotel, where she finds Vincent where Douglas had once been. Vincent gives her directions to Lakeside Amusement Park so she can get to the church and find Claudia. At the park, Heather runs through a haunted house and is chased by a red light that can kill her if she doesn't outrun it, and finds Douglas wounded. The two have a chat and share a rather tender moment before Heather starts to go on ahead without him, at his request.
She makes her way to the (Un)Happy Carousel, and is faced with a bloody, dark-haired mirror image of herself, the Memory of Alessa. Heather kills her, accepts who she really is, and faces Claudia in the chapel. In the church's library, she encounters Vincent, who, erm, jokingly implies that she's been killing humans that she perceives as monsters the entire time before handing her a book explaining the purpose of the talisman she got after defeating Leonard. After making her way through the nightmarish church, she finally finds Claudia again, who she watches mortally wound Vincent. Despite the return of her memories, she still doesn't want any part of the "paradise" that Claudia is trying to bring about by summoning God. She begins to give birth to God ... until she swallows the Aglaophotis that she'd been carrying around her neck and vomits up the fetus and tries to finish it off. Claudia stops her by eating the fetus herself so that she can give birth to God, then runs to the hole at the end of the room, and Heather looks on in horror as God's angel, Valtiel rips through the floor and drags her down.
Heather jumps down the hole, and encounters the prematurely born abomination that the Order calls God, engaging in an incredibly tedious fight with and finally killing her. Then she pummels her corpse in frustration before calming down. "Well, I guess that's the end. Time to roll the credits." She breaks down crying. "Dad ... dad ..."
Depending on whether this is your first playthrough and/or your earlier actions, she'll either have a reasonably happy ending where she returns to Douglas, tries to scare him by threatening him with her switchblade ... and then dismisses it as a joke, and returns to calling herself Cheryl, having decided to stop hiding. Then there's the Downer Ending, where Vincent's "joke" about her killing humans all along ... is suggested to have not been much of a joke after all. The Order's god is still alive, and possessed by her "true self", she (offscreen) stabs Douglas to death. I'll leave the UFO ending out of this.
Can she defend herself/is she a jerkass?
Yes, she can — and does — defend herself. In fact, she's pretty much required to when it comes to fighting the bosses. As for her being a jerk, she does have the typical snarky teenage girl attitude towards Douglas when they first meet and later when she finds him in her apartment, blaming him for Harry's death (she later reconciles with Douglas, telling him she doesn't blame him), and snaps at Vincent for badmouthing Harry. But her irritability isn't really a defining trait of hers like it is for, say, Angela Orosco, and when it comes to Vincent, he's not exactly the most likable character himself, being a creepy, hedonistic weirdo who's only trying to stop the birth of God for purely selfish reasons. As for her behavior towards Claudia ... she's pretty justified in hating her as much as she does.
Douglas might also qualify as an Iron Woobie. He seems to be somewhat tormented, stating that he's killed before, and that his son was shot trying to rob a bank. He also sees the monsters (but it isn't clear if he sees the exact same ones that Heather does), and in the Silent Hill-verse, anyone who sees monsters either a) has a connection to the town or b) has a Dark and Troubled Past.
Claudia (incidentally voiced by the same actress as the aforementioned Angela) is definitely a contender for either a Jerkass Woobie or a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds. Her father was horribly abusive to her, and even Vincent seemed disturbed by his abuse. Unlike most members of the Order, she believes that she'll save all of humankind by bringing God into the world, seemingly refusing to see the Otherworld or the monsters as any indicator of God's malevolence. Nonetheless, at the end of the day, whether she's a Well-Intentioned Extremist horrified by the endless suffering in the world or — as Vincent suggests — a Psychopathic Womanchild desperately searching for a friend (given her Heel Realization at the end, the former seems more likely), her motives are sympathetic enough, especially compared to the power-hungry, child abusing sorceress that Dahlia was or the even bigger religious zealot and purist that Leonard was.
Keeper for Iron Woobie.
Edited by Stellarvore on Aug 22nd 2019 at 11:00:42 AM
Sure to Heather. Will Walter Sullivan and Alessa count as well?
Yes. I actually plan on doing an EP for Walter after I do one for Claudia. Like I said, I haven't ever finished the first game, so I can't do one for Alessa, though I do know enough to know she qualifies.
Edited by Stellarvore on Aug 22nd 2019 at 10:58:50 AM
Easy yes to Heather.
Also, sure to the candidates I missed since my last post.
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Aug 22nd 2019 at 2:20:57 PM
Who is Claudia Wolf? What is her predicament?
Claudia Wolf is a priestess of the Order and Alessa's best friend from her childhood. When she wasn't spending time with Alessa, she was abused by her father, Leonard, who "hit her, kicked her, made her cry". Leonard's abuse led to her being ... surprisingly more moderate than him, and wanting to summon God to usher in Paradise for all of mankind and not just cult members, tired of all the suffering in the world. When she read what needs to be done for the summoning to work, she was horrified and reluctant.
She decides to pay a visit to Heather in her local mall, bringing with her many horrifying monsters and warping the scenery into something more hellish after telling Heather of her destiny. The two eventually meet again in Heather's apartment, where she has just done what The Book of Praise said she needed to do: order the death of Harry Mason so that Heather can nurture the god with all her hatred. After this, she flees to Silent Hill.
Next we see of her, she's in Heather's motel room with Vincent, arguing with him over sending Heather to kill her father. All while Vincent more or less seems to imply that he did it out of some notion of sympathy for her, noting the abuse that she endured, to which she gleefully responds, "That's why we need God!" and tries to shoot down Vincent's interpretation of her faith.
Later on, she meets Douglas at Lakeside Amusement Park, where she reveals her plan and her motives to bring about Paradise, and Douglas tries to shoot her, only for her to (somehow) wound him. Still later, Heather finds her in the church, and confronts her. When Heather accepts that she's Alessa in front of her, Claudia is overjoyed to see her again, and tries to use the Order's doctrine on her to no avail.
In her final appearance, Claudia is bickering with Vincent once again, and stabs him when Heather walks in. She tries to plead with Heather again, to which Heather replies, "And save you too? Happy ending? I'd rather go to Hell." Claudia has her own surprising retort: she doesn't expect to be saved. She realizes that what she's done to Heather is unforgivable, and that she won't see Paradise. Even Heather looks shocked for a second. Then Vincent, barely clinging to life, says, "If you feel so guilty about it, why don't you go to Hell?" And orders Heather to use the Seal of Metatron (the aforementioned talisman from Heather's EP). Claudia then reveals that it's "just a piece of junk" and finishes Vincent off. "But God loves even you."
Heather starts to give birth to the God, but then swallows the Aglaophotis, vomits up the fetus, which Claudia eats and red tendrils spread out across her face as she makes her way to end of the room and is violently dragged to underground by Valtiel, and after giving birth to God, is presumably devoured by it, leaving behind nothing but her robe. So yeah, for all her zealous efforts to create a Paradise with genuinely noble intentions, she ended up being a meal for a demiurgic abomination. Pretty sad, if you ask me. Even before descending into the hole, Heather admits that she wants to save her.
She isn't really given much reason to defend herself, being on the same side as the monsters. Although she does end up being defenseless before Valtiel and later God in the end. And yes, she is a jerkass, and delusional to boot, what with two murders — one by proxy — under her belt. Her faith in the Order's god, as Vincent notes, can be equated with a lovesick child, although her diary shows that she is actually weary of the suffering in the world and wants to bring it to an end. Never mind that God has never shown any real benevolence to speak of and would probably just make things far worse.
See my post for Heather. I might do one for Douglas in the future, but I said I'd do one for Walter, so that's my next stop.
Keeper for Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds. Or maybe a Jerkass Woobie.
To Silent Hill examples.
Here's one I think people kind of forgot.
Who are they?
The Young Justice version/s of Plasma are two siblings who got gaslighted and experimented on by Bedlam for their meta-gene. First was Ana, who was told she had a heart-disease and was drowned in tar, activating the meta-gene and turning her into a horrific lava monster. She was enslaved by a control chip and sent to fight for Apokalips, battling against the Justice League against her own will. She was accidentally killed by Black Lightning, who shot her with lightning causing her heart, the only organ that remained intact, to fail.
Her brother, Oto, was next, also mislead to believe he had the same heart-disease as his sister and turned into a lava monster, only his brain remained. He fought the Team under Count Vertigo's orders, and was almost rescued, but then a random thug shot him in the brain, resulting in his death.
Can they defend themselves
If they had ever been free, maybe, but they were enslaved by control chips.
Just finding out they were humans breaks Black Lightning. Ana in particular gets the benefit of seeing her miserable journey unfold on screen.
An entry I would like to propose:
The work? Moto Hagio's The Heart of Thomas.
The character? Julusmole "Juli" Bayhan.
Woobie type? I propose Stoic.
Reasoning? Throughout the story, Juli consistently presents himself to others as not being affected by the titular Thomas's suicide, but those close to him, such as his best friend Oskar, know otherwise, as seen here: https://www.readmng.com/heart-of-thomas/1/26. Furthermore, as a result of his torture at the delinquent Siegfried's hands, Juli feels that others are better off not loving him (https://www.readmng.com/heart-of-thomas/3/8), which factored into why he rejected Thomas in the first place, AND in the middle of the story, he presents himself to Erich as someone who doesn't need love or friendship: https://www.readmng.com/heart-of-thomas/4/9
What say you, my fellow Tropers?
Your effort post is not good enough. Please make a detailed and unambiguous case as everyone else does.
Edited by IukaSylvie on Aug 30th 2019 at 10:06:52 PM
For examples from fanfiction that take place in the canon universe of a franchise, can characters who are relatively happy in canon but are consistently put through hell in the events of the fanfic (this specific fic is an Origins Episode with the climax taking place in the present day) qualify? Regardless of if it is yes or now, I will have at least one example to propose after I get an answer.
Oh absolutely. If you're a protagonist and you go through hell be it in canon or in a fic anf are not a villain protagonist you've a good chance of counting.
And yes to everyone I missed.
I'm back and I will do a writeup on both Lucy and Shizue soon due to my laziness.
Anyhoo... Before that, there's one example that I want to bring before doing my writeups: Oersted/Odio from Live a Life. He should be an easiest keep for Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds
A potential candidate for Woobie Destroyer of Worlds can be Tragic Villain Makubex from Get Backers.
Unfortunately, I saw the series for years, so I am not sure I can make a worthy discussion.
Edited by JoLuRo075 on Sep 2nd 2019 at 8:19:54 AM
Fire Emblem: Three Houses has been out for a while, so I guess it's okay for its characters now?
My knowledge is limited only to certain characters though; like I would nominate Bernadetta for a regular Woobie, but she's definitely not the only character who has gone through shit. So I am not quite sure on the "sympathy standards" part.
By "sympathy standard" it's not like the heinous standard where if one character commits suicide after years of abuse but other characters suffer heavily, only the suicide victim would count. It's actually more akin to a "does what happen to this character stand out from the norm?" Like if everyone gets bullied, no one counts. If it's only a few characters then you could make that argument.
Take Jill Fizzart from the Tellius games. Her situation is unique as there are only a handful of characters who have lost their father, and very few actually good Daein's in POR beyond the recruitable ones (at least until the next game). That's what it means.
As for the sympathy standard, is it right that the amount of screen time affects it as well?
Can I please get more votes on Claudia and Heather? I'm going back to school soon, so I won't have as much time to do effortposts and writeups anymore. Thanks.
Correct. You won't see a character who gets one line in a story unless they are expanded on in supplementary material, on this list with some exceptions (Chrono Trigger's Schala being one). It really depends on if they impact the plot and if they don't, what is revealed about them All There in the Manual? If their suffering or fate is unknown, that might also be a disqualifier like for the Zoras. It's never shown how they were "stuck under thick ice" as Sheik puts it. Heroic Mime are also another hard Woobie candidate to get right as the hero basically being an Audience Surrogate for the player makes it harder to sympathize with them because they exist simply to show the audience the story. Link in several games is an example with only a few giving him a more distinguished personality such as Wind Waker. I'm still curious whether or not any iteration of Link besides maybe the Wind Waker one and possibly the Skyward Sword one could count especially since out of all the characters, Link only suffers through other characters. Crono from Chrono Trigger is a toughie as he does give his life for the heroes so they can survive Lavos and if you consider Chrono Cross canon, which most fans don't. It's also best if they are the protagonist that we get to see his/her struggle inside.
I'll give a yes to Claudia and Heather if I haven't already.
Edited by Klavice on Sep 2nd 2019 at 10:42:19 AM
Update: I'm working on Ozpin/Ozma/Oz's writeup but it's still too long. I'm stuck at 450 words. Why is this candidate being so difficult?
to Claudia (it sounds to me like she's probably WDOW material; anyone have any thoughts?) and the Plasmas.
Now Woobie operates like Complete Monster? Requiring every example to be reviewed before they can be released? Hmmm...
You also have to wait for the discussion date before proposing a candidate.
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