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That's not a distinction used by either trope, and such a distinction would only serve to make it a subtrope to FE. For the record, I'm not aware of what the difference between them is either.
to La Llorona and Link.
Fifth Outnumbered candidate: Karen.
Who is Karen?
Karen is the youngest of the three kids, and the only girl. At the start of the series she is 6; by the finale she is 15. She didn't tend to have any significant story arcs throughout the first few seasons, although she played a key role in several one-episode stories, and was also probably the most entertaining character, given her... unique outlook on the world; you often didn't know if the next thing to come out of her mouth would be adorable, hilarious (some classic examples) or even downright terrifying. She often shows some strange priorities at times: for example, she worries about polar bears because they're endangered, but claims rhinos only say they are for attention. Early on she likes to act out TV shows like X-Factor and Hell's Kitchen with her dolls.
What is her predicament?
Karen's first major moment of pathos is in the finale of Season 3, when she is taken to hospital after being knocked over by a car (offscreen). Fortunately, she isn't seriously hurt, and is later seen calmly preparing for a tetanus shot while very openly committing the nurse's words about how much it will hurt to memory, with the implied threat of legal action should it turn out to be more painful than claimed. The episode ends with her heading off home with her parents, asking if they can sue the driver. (The Brockmans don't have a lawyer and can't afford one, so that's not going to happen.) In Season 4 Karen, now 10, seems to be growing more bothered by her situation. Her mother had had to return to working full-time, and Karen clearly feels she's taking a backseat. Her school project on Martin Luther King has his dream be "that one day I'll stop going out to make speeches and spend more time with my children like I'm supposed to". She's having trouble at school, getting detentions and being kicked out of afterschool club for making fun of a (female) teacher's moustache; her parents suspect she's acting up to get back at her mother. She also seems to be trying to fit in with the popular crowd, developing a supposed interest in fashion she's never had before, and wanting to buy lipstick and leopard-print shoes. She even claims she'll be working as an assistant to Tanya, the apparent leader of said crowd, when she opens her global fashion house. She writes "Ugg" on her boots to try and impress Tanya, and insists on wearing them to a sleepover at her house. She even announces she wants to become a Catholic just so she can attend the same high school Tanya will be going to. However, she later learns from Tanya's brother that she gives "dwarf-y" nicknames to all her supposed friends, and he suspects she's the one she calls "Clingy". Karen is clearly hurt by this, but she rallies quickly; at the end of the episode she tells Sue that she overheard her calling Tanya "a right cow", and agrees. She says she'll look for some new friends on Facebook. Despite this, though, she does remain friends with Tanya in the end, as revealed in the 2011 Christmas special, which also reveals that her mother is an alcoholic with a history of passing out during sleepovers and that her parents are (surprise!) divorced; her father phoned up during a sleepover to say he loved her, and cried. This may cast Tanya's actions in a different light. There is another point to make about Karen, but for contextual reasons I'm bringing that up later.
Can she defend herself?
Karen's a pretty tough kid. Throughout the series, there's only one thing that really seems to shake her, which I'm getting on to in the next section.
Is she a Jerkass?
Okay.... Early on Karen was generally portrayed as Innocently Insensitive, but as she gets older and more worldly-wise, this changes to more just "insensitive". In the Christmas 2012 episode, she's spending all her time in her room, apparently unwilling to communicate with her parents other than by text. It turns out she's playing online poker (she found an invitation email her mother had received, with a free £20 starting bet), and asks her grandmother - herself a recovering online gambling addict - for advice on what to do in a specific situation, then says "Well, you lost a lot of money, so I'll just do the exact opposite of that." It gets worse in Season 5, where (now 12) she starts at a secondary school for more advanced kids. Up until now, she's generally been top of her class, but now there are others doing better than her, and it seems she has trouble dealing with that, especially when another girl, Esme, is sent to "mentor" her with her maths and English; Karen's response is to drop passive-aggressive barbs about Esme's lactose intolerance and nut allergy. She later posts a mean Tweet about a classmate; when asked about this, she just says most of the girls are "pretty sensitive". Joining the school swimming team doesn't help; Karen doesn't understand concepts like "it's not the winning, it's the taking part" or "team playing". She nearly gets disqualified even before the start for sledging. When she comes in third, her response is to throw away her "personal best" medal, accuse another girl of taking steroids, drop out of the team and accuse her family of being losers who drag her down. An attempt to buy friends with doughnuts goes about as well as you might expect. It all comes to a head in the penultimate episode when she is called into the headmistress' office, to the general amusement of her classmates (Esme in particular is seen making a throat-cutting gesture). This, by the way, is the other thing I alluded to twice before. The conversation that takes place between her and the head, Mrs. Raynott, is pretty long, but you can read a transcript (here). This was... controversial, to say the least. A lot of people felt the headmistress went way beyond the pale of what an educator should say to a student under any circumstances - This Very Wiki outright accuses her of channelling Agatha Trunchbull. However, this isn't a discussion of ethics in education; the question is how it affects Karen specifically. She is, it must be said, uncharacteristically subdued throughout the whole thing. That said, by the end she seems somewhat calm, having apparently accepted that the teacher may have a point, and she does become a somewhat nicer person afterward, even giving a pep-talk to Ben, the person she's clashed with most over the years. Even then, she does retain the central core of cynicism and snark her parents call her essential "Karen-ness"; it shows up in the following episode, much to their relief ("Why aren't you in bed?" "Because I'm in the kitchen.") and in the finale, she's the only member of the family to realise that the driver of the car they ran into, a wheelchair user, is deliberately faking the effects of whiplash in hopes of getting a large insurance payout. She later swipes the woman's phone and discovers she was actually texting at the moment of the accident, and sends screenshots to all her friends; one quick blackmailing later, the woman suddenly loses interest in bringing any charges.
Karen's original posting brought up her Season 4 issues, but not the other ones I've discussed, which surprised me, to be honest; she doesn't seem all that bothered over the whole thing. She realises Tanya probably isn't worth befriending and takes it in stride. Honestly, I think being on the receiving end of a massive "The Reason You Suck" Speech is probably her most sympathetic moment, regardless of whether you think she needed taking down a peg or two; it's the only time in the entire series when she shows anything resembling actual fear. That said, though, it doesn't seem afterward that it's traumatised her or anything; it's just made her think. In the finale, she's as happily sarcastic as ever.
Overall, I'm leaning no.
Hey. I just realized that the subpage for Disney's Woobies are locked. I do believe that Snow White from Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs should qualify since she has an awful life, lives with a Queen who treats her like a peasant and wants her dead because of something she has no control of (her looks).
Please do an effort post.
No to Karen.
Absolutely no to Karen!
. No to Karen.
If I've missed anybody needing more votes or having already been approved, please let me know.
Edited by IukaSylvie on Sep 25th 2019 at 2:17:54 AM
I've already done the writeups for Cain and Rin.
I can give you the write-ups for those three (although there are still a few more candidates to get through).
I'm working on Salem's entry but I think it's too long and I don't know how to shorten it without losing context information.
11's been bounced, so someone else is gonna have to do his writeup.
Well I'm back. I'll post the examples to the locked pages thread when they are written but in the meantime, here are two of my writeups.
Final Fantasy IX
Edited by Klavice on May 13th 2019 at 5:35:23 AM
Here's a tentative write-up for Salem the Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds from RWBY. I am also posting it on the drafts page. I think it needs to be shortened and reworded a bit but I'm unsure how to do it. I have never written a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds entry before so any advice would be appreciated. I'm also working on the effort post for Ozpin from RWBY.
Note: The God of Light/Darkness is their names/titles so shortening it to something like "Darkness God/Light God" would be incorrect.
Also: Weight of the World was completed more than two weeks ago (almost a month now) and I do not think any more information needs to be added to the fics' Woobie entries (which can be found on the draft page). Is there something more that needs to be done before the entries can be put on the woobie page? I'm asking because I'd like to get that done and move on.
Also-also: there are Jerkass Woobie entries for Neo and Mercury on the YMMV pages for RWBY V6E4 "So That's How It Is" and RWBY V6E5 "The Coming Storm". Since neither character qualify as woobies (as decided in this forum), should I remove these entries?
Edited by EmeraldSky on May 15th 2019 at 11:18:15 AM
Any objections to cutting them? I'd say no, just go ahead and do it.
^ I'll go do that now.
Edit: I removed the entries for Neo and Mercury on those pages.
Edited by EmeraldSky on May 16th 2019 at 3:26:14 AM
It's been a hot minute, but I've got time now to start work on OOT.
What's the work?
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time is the fifth game in the action-adventure series The Legend of Zelda. The player controls Link, a young boy who lives in the forest alongside the Kokiri, a race of children that never age. After gaining his companion fairy, Link sets out on a journey to stop the evil Ganondorf from taking over the world. To do so, he must travel back and forth in time, alternating between his child form and a seven-years-older adult form.
I'll handle the EP for Link after MM, since his story continues into there. First up are two candidates for Woobie Species:
Who are they?
The Gorons are a race of mountain-dwelling rock people who inhabit Death Mountain. They are led by a single leader, Darunia, and are tasked with guarding the Spiritual Stone of Fire, one of three stones needed to open the Door of Time and grant access to the Triforce.
What is their predicament?
Because he wants to use the Triforce to take over the world, Ganondorf approaches the Gorons and demands that they hand over the Spiritual Stone. When they refuse, Ganondorf infests their mining complex with monsters and blocks off its entrance with a giant boulder. The Gorons feast on the rocks within the mine, and thus having it blocked off causes them to starve. Some of them become so hungry that they try to eat the Spiritual Stone itself, only to discover that Darunia has sequestered it in his room.
Link comes along, destroys the boulder, and clears out all the monsters in the mine. As thanks, Darunia gives him the Spiritual Stone and entitles him a 'sworn brother' of the Gorons. Link then opens the Door of Time and hops forward seven years in time.
During those seven years, Ganondorf has been using some of the Triforce's power to wreak havoc across Hyrule. He revives Volvagia, an ancient dragon that used to eat Gorons until it was felled by a mighty Goron warrior. Ganondorf then rounds up the Gorons and imprisons them in the Fire Temple, intending to feed them all to Volvagia to set an example to the other races who might question his rule. This is all revealed to Link via Darunia's son, one of the few Gorons who wasn't captured, who can barely get the story out because he's crying so hard.
Link enters the Fire Temple, individually frees all of the Gorons, and then defeats Volvagia. As thanks, Darunia- who has awakened as one of the six Sages destined to help defeat Ganondorf- grants Link the Medallion he needs to continue his journey.
Can they defend themselves/are they Jerkasses?
The Gorons are a peaceful tribe, and thus can do little to defend themselves when Ganondorf blocks off their food source and then imprisons them. Darunia tries to fight back, but still requires Link's help to defeat Volvagia.
Darunia is the only Goron who's initially rude to Link, and it's because of the peril that the Gorons are trapped in. Once Link helps them out, Darunia is much friendlier to him, proclaiming him a sworn brother to the Goron race.
The Gorons are the only race in the game who are twice threatened with extinction by Ganondorf, despite being a gentle race that pose little threat to him. Helping them out both times is required to progress the plot. Notably, one of the goals in the Fire Temple is to go around and free all of the Gorons from their cells, whereas the other species in the game aren't helped out as directly by Link/the player.
for Woobie Species.
The Zora are an aquatic race of humanoid fish people who live within Zora's Domain, a cavern connected to Zora's Fountain that serves as one of the main sources of water across Hyrule. They are charged with protecting the Water Temple and Zora's Fountain, and are also in possession of the Spiritual Stone of Water. Their patron deity is Lord Jabu-Jabu, a giant whale-like creature that lives within the Fountain.
Ganondorf curses Jabu-Jabu, which causes him to become ill and act erratically. He ends up swallowing Ruto, the princess of the Zoras who has the Spiritual Stone in her possession. Upon finding out what happened to his daughter, King Zora pleads for Link to save her. He does so, freeing Jabu-Jabu of the curse, and is given the Spiritual Stone by Ruto as thanks.
Seven years later, Ganondorf uses his evil power to create Morpha, a giant amoeba that uses its power over water to drain Lake Hylia and completely freeze over Zora's Domain and Fountain. The Zora are all trapped under the ice, save for Ruto, who is saved by Sheik. Link comes along and is able to defrost King Zora, who gives Link the item he needs to enter the Water Temple, defeat Morpha, and free the Zora from under the ice. However, they aren't rescued immediately; Ruto notes that it will take a while for the ice to thaw, and the Zora are only seen again at the end of the game.
The Zora aren't a combative race, and are helpless when Morpha freezes over their domain. They're also shown to be friendly and welcoming when Link enters their domain.
Like the Gorons, the Zora are a peaceful race who do nothing to earn the suffering caused upon them by Morpha. Unlike the Gorons, however, their predicament isn't shown in that much detail; Link doesn't get to interact with any of the Zora who are frozen, and beforehand their race as a whole isn't affected by Jabu-Jabu becoming ill. Rather, the predicaments that affect them are centered more around Ruto, King Zora, and Jabu-Jabu as individuals, rather than the species as a whole.
Sometime ago I've cut an unapproved entry on the Deku Tree.
Edited by MasterJoseph on May 17th 2019 at 6:09:05 AM
Where Was My Hero...? is a Sonic What If? story about what would have happened if Tails hadn't met Sonic and grown up without him.
As the story shows, things go From Bad to Worse. Much, much worse.
Who is he?
The Villain Protagonist and Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds candidate is none other than our friendly two-tailed fox Miles "Tails" Prower of Sonic fame.
In this timeline, Miles never met Sonic and instead went back to his abusive hometown.
He's an orphan who was bullied not by one or two people, but his entire hometown, and this goes uninterrupted for years, to the point where he starts to shave his body (More specifically, his tails) in a way that has disturbing parallels to Self-Harm in a failed attempt to fit in better. One day he finds and adopts a pet bird and makes him his Living Emotional Crutch but his tormentors accidentally kill it while bulling him. This sets him down the path of evil, but not before taking revenge on his hometown. After that is done Miles tries to become an Anti-Hero, killing Eggman because he wanted to help Sonic and show everyone how special he is, but is rejected by Sonic (who tells him he's nothing) and gets sent to prison, which he escapes after deciding to become an Omnicidal Maniac, at the time of the story, Miles is destroying a city, heavily implied to be one of many, and fights Sonic, but, tired of living, decides to commit Suicide by Cop by allowing Sonic to kill him. It's also revealed that the countdown he had ongoing wasn't for the destruction of the world, but to shut down his army of Killer Robots, which showed he had abandoned his omnicidal ambitions. In the end, he bitterly mourns at his death that if he had met Sonic when was a child, things would have been different and cries Tears of Joy when Sonic says he would have taken him in as family.
Can they defend themselves/are they a Jerkass?
Jerkass is putting it lightly, in his teens, he's clearly Ax-Crazy and struggling with omnicidal drives, as a child however, he was the canon Tails we know and love and very much The Fettered who wouldn't hurt a fly. Even though he was bullied, he never struck back until they killed his pet bird in front of him.
As the protagonist, he's the only one shown with a backstory, and a tragic one while we're at it, so he does stand out and in its short duration, the story does indeed Woobiefy him, with even Sonic, who in this story is Tails's Arch-Enemy, acknowledges him as a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds and bitterly mourns his demise.
, but only in the Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds page, he's too destructive and Ax-Crazy to be in to be in other pages, before voting or however, I would like it if you saw the actual video (it's short, only 28:41 long) because reading this profile is one thing, reading the actual comic while listening to it's masterfully chosen soundtracks is another entirely. There is a reason why the youtubers making comments about the video agree with me.
Edited by Mew1996 on May 17th 2019 at 12:01:47 PM
Gorons, Zora, and having watched that video I would have to say a definite to that version of Tails as a WDOW.
Where Was My Hero? Tails as WDOW.
Commented out some unapproved and low-to-no-context examples on YMMV.Fruits Basket.
Sorry I added one and didn't notice: the subject of the song "trouble me" by 10000 maniacs sounds like a Stoic Woobie.
Also, don't forget my Owari no Seraph examples inside the draft pages
Edited by KazuyaProta on May 18th 2019 at 11:22:49 AM
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How well does it match the trope?