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For what it's worth, here's the text I'm using for Freudian Excuse:
"But the consciousness of power came, and with it, the desire to make up for the miserable position of my earlier life. Maybe you can understand it. Maybe you can try to understand it. It isn't easy to be a freak - to have a mind and an understanding and be a freak. Laughter and cruelty! To be different! To be an outsider!
"You've never been through it!"
Magnifico looked up to the sky and teetered on the balls of his feet and reminisced stonily, "But I eventually did learn, and I decided that the Galaxy and I could take turns. Come, they had had their innings, and I had been patient about it - for twenty-two years. My turn! It would be up to the rest of you to take it! And the odds would be fair enough for the Galaxy. One of me! Quadrillions of them!"
Edited by crazysamaritan on Apr 1st 2019 at 2:01:57 PM
This was added on Honkai Impact 3rd despite not being approved:
Yes to everyone I missed.
BTW, I've got the EPs for Outnumbered to work through at some point; is there a good time to do that? There are a lot of them, and I don't want to end up derailing an ongoing discussion.
Edited by CloisterTheStupid on Apr 4th 2019 at 8:31:30 PM
Maybe you can post several a week.
Okay... *deep breath* Here's the first one: What's the work?
Outnumbered was a BBC sitcom, running from 2007 to 2016note There have been five seasons, shown in 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011 and 2014, as well as four Christmas specials in 2009, 2011, 2012 and 2016; it's been hinted there may be more specials in the future , about the lives of a middle-class West London family, the Brockmans. The title refers to the fact that the parents, Pete and Sue, are "outnumbered" by their children, Jake, Ben and Karen (aged 11, 7 and 6 respectively at the series start, but they aged as their actors did). All three are indicated to be intelligent - very possibly more so than their parents - but lacking in real-world experience (and, in Ben's case, probably hyperactive), which frequently leads to a lot of very awkward conversations. The show was notable for the fact that, while scenes with adults alone were scripted, the child actors were merely given an idea of what would happen in a scene and told to improvise their dialogue, with the adults in turn having to react to what they came up with. The show was a World of Snark with, as we'll see, a fair dose of Comedic Sociopathy (though not a Sadist Show by any means - the main characters are generally pretty likeable, and their problems are played for drama rather than laughs). Despite the format, there was quite a bit of drama involved. At the time this cleanup began, there were thirteen characters listed as Woobies of one type or another (although five of them are a group and share a common predicament). Unfortunately, though, none of the entries were given much in the way of context. I'm going to try and make the case for (or against) each one. So, to begin with: Frank.
Who is Frank?
Frank, aka Grandad (his name isn't revealed until halfway through the second season), is Sue's father. At the time the series begins he is living on his own, his wife having died some time earlier.
What is his predicament?
Well, there's no easy way to say this... Frank has Alzheimer's. We first hear about him, and his condition, early in the first season, via phone calls between him and Sue, who is apparently having to visit him frequently to help out. He's having trouble keeping track of days, and he apparently frequently asks when his older daughter, Angela, will be returning from America. Sue has repeatedly tried to explain to him that she has no idea - Angela is notoriously unreliable and she doesn't bother to inform Sue of her comings and goings. In the second episode, however, she not only arrives, but announces that she'll be moving in with Frank in order to take over his care full-time. Sue is clearly sceptical of this, later remarking that she'll inevitably decide she can't handle it and leave, as she did after their mum died. However, Angela seems determined to make a go of it. Our first actual introduction to Frank is on a family outing, where it's shown that he still has a fair bit of lucidity; he manages to scare everyone by saying he smells burning, but then reveals he was joining in with the "Who Can Tell The Biggest Lie?" game they were playing (he's unanimously declared the winner). Later, he shares a joke with his granddaughter Karen, but she tells him he's told her it before - repeatedly, in fact - and asks why. After a pause, he says he guesses it's because he's old - although he feels being old beats being dead. Karen asks how he can be sure heaven won't be better; he jokes that he'll call and let her know - although this only sets her off questioning the availability of telephones and email in the hereafter. Although he zones out a bit when Angela talks about her boyfriend leaving, the two of them seem to be getting on well and Sue starts to think maybe she has unfairly judged her sister. In the season finale, however, Angela quietly informs Sue that she's going back to America the following day. This sets off a furious row between the two of them. After Angela leaves, Sue gets a call from Frank to say how much they're getting on. Sue is clearly saddened at this, but hasn't the heart to tell him just yet; she'll have to try and explain it in the morning. In Season 2 Frank has to temporarily move in with the Brockmans after accidentally setting fire to his own kitchen; he spends most of the time in front of the TV (he turns out to enjoy Jackass after Ben puts it on). Although he generally gets on fairly well with the kids (joking at one point that he's 1000 years old and was personally acquainted with Henry VIII and his wives, "a couple of Catherines, Bertha Big Bottom, Queen Fatty Knickers, Queen Bonkers and Queen Derek"), the constant rowdiness is clearly getting to him. His condition seems to be getting worse; he keeps forgetting conversations he's had, as well as why he's there in the first place. Sue initially tries to put this down to the strong painkillers he's been taking as a result of the burns he sustained - until he says he hasn't taken them in four days, as they make him "a bit confused". The family ends up having to take him along on their holiday to Spain, where he wanders off repeatedly, at one time having a bath in someone else's hotel room, and on another occasion, he's found wandering down a dual carriageway. He insists he's "not an invalid", though, and doesn't take well to hearing that Pete doesn't think he's safe on his own. Eventually Pete and Sue can't deny the situation any more, and sit down with him to discuss signing an Enduring Power of Attorney, for when he's no longer able to make his own decisions. He takes this fairly calmly; it's clear that, despite his protests to the contrary, he knows only too well that his condition is getting worse. In the following episode, they have another talk, this time about moving him into a nursing home. He reacts with relief, saying he'd been worrying about how to break it to them; much as he loves the kids, the house is too noisy and confused for him. Sue is greatly relieved by this and heads off to make the arrangements, but Frank then seems to deflate a bit; Pete asks if he just said that to let them off the hook. He denies it, but Pete clearly isn't convinced and neither is the viewer. In the final episode, we hear that he's moved into the home, where he's settling in and could they bring him a remote for the communal TV? In the Christmas 2009 episode, Frank is supposed to join them for dinner, but he's missing when she goes to pick him up. It turns out he's made a new friend, Mack, and they keep skipping out of the home (which they call "Colditz", although this is apparently just a joke) and visiting a local pub. Apparently the two of them have become more or less inseparable, and always have lunch together; this has become so much a part of Frank's routine that he can't seem to grasp that Mack isn't invited to Christmas dinner. Unsurprisingly, Mack ends up joining them. In the Christmas 2011 episode Frank is in hospital with a kidney infection. Sue has been visiting him, but he seems to have trouble remembering who she is. He has also developed a habit of bursting randomly into song. When Jake visits him, he tells him "Don't get old - it's a pain in the arse." The episode ends with the family joining him for a sing-song, but he doesn't seem to be fully aware of who they are or why they're there. By the Season 5 finale, his condition has grown so bad he thinks Sue is a waitress he met during the Korean War (we don't see this, but it's probably just as well) and that Britain's Got Talent judge Amanda Holden is Eva Braun. In the finale, Frank has died, and the family is carrying out his last wishes: that his ashes be scattered at the place, and on the day, when he met his wife. At least, according to the version he told Sue, and this was when he thought she was the Korean waitress. It later turns out that he told a different story to everyone - including Sue herself. It's played largely for laughs, but the implication that he ultimately forgot the details of how he met the love of his life is pretty sad.
Can he defend himself?
Well, his opponent is the inexorable decay of his own mental condition. So I'd have to say no.
Is he a Jerkass?
The original post described him as a "Jerk with a Heart of Gold Woobie", and it's understandable as to why. Frank can often be insensitive - e.g. when Karen plays her recorder (badly, but she's putting her heart into it) he asks what the awful noise is. He gives some... questionable advice to Jake regarding women ("Look at the mothers, so you know what they'll look like when they're older") and, when reminiscing about his own wedding, remembers how beautiful his wife's friend was. There are also other things, such as his outspoken dislike of the Germans and the Japanese. The thing is, though, that all of this seems to be less down to malice on his part and more to do with his condition robbing him of his filters; basically, he's a generally amiable guy who is sadly losing his ability to tell what is and isn't appropriate to say.
Given the nature of Frank's condition, I'd say he's pretty sympathetic; there are other characters in the show with fairly major problems, but none with anything like his. What's worse is that we get to see him early on, when he's still mostly lucid, and you don't have to read much within the lines to see that he knows only too well what's happening to him. And despite all this, he's clearly trying to put on a brave face for the sake of his daughter and grandchildren.
I would say that if anyone from this show counts, Frank certainly does.
Yes to Frank.
Magnifico/Mule status after six days:
Did I give a to invoked Woobie? I didn't mean to if I did, I do think the Mule is making intentional usage of the trope with Magnifico.
As for Mule being WDOW... The speech posted at the top is making me lean more towards . Dead mother, absent father, ostracized for his physical deformities, living a life of being treated a freak until he finally came into power and decided to fight back against the world, it all seems very classically WDOW. I would like to know more about the retcon that Cloister mentioned on the previous page; if it's pretty much 'Nah the Mule was totally lying about his motive.' then yeah, I don't think WDOW would count anymore.
Also for Frank.
Well... supposedly the Mule isn't a mutant as such; he's from a planet called Gaia whose inhabitants all have mentalic powers and usually form a group consciousness (although they also have individual awareness; it's complicated). For whatever reason, he left, and decided to use his abilities to control others for his own benefit, in violation of his people's laws. Although, I will add that it's not 100% clear whether this is true; the Gaians say it is, but there's still some lingering doubt in-universe. (The trouble is, these books were written decades apart, and Asimov had had a few changes of mind about what he wanted to do with the series, so continuity gets a bit difficult at times.) All that said, though, I should probably note that this could still be counted as a potential WDOW situation — one could argue that he left Gaia because he didn't fit in, only to find that the rest of the galaxy had no place for him either. Mutant, Gaian or whatever, he was still a short, ugly man who was essentially incapable of relating to people on a normal level (being a telepath will probably do that to you). So I'm not going to argue that he should be rejected out of hand. BTW, if we are ok with Woobie being invoked in-universe — and it looks like we are — then I agree Magnifico counts for that. I just wasn't entirely sure whether we were before (this is a fairly young cleanup, after all, and we need to make sure we're all on the same page about these things).
Edited by CloisterTheStupid on Apr 4th 2019 at 11:54:20 AM
Hello. The candidate I'm about to discuss involves twists that spoil the entire plot of the series, so if you haven't watched the series yet and don't want to know, stop reading now.
What's the work?
Tweeny Witches is a High Fantasy anime about a young girl named Arusu, who finds herself trapped in the Magical Realm, where witches, warlocks, and fairies live. As Atelia arranges for her to live as an apprentice witch, she embraces the local lifestyle, though she always goes against every single custom she finds unacceptable, like capturing fairies as the source of magic and banishing failed witches. During the second half of the series, she discovers the eventual destruction of the Magical Realm, the forbidden dark magic, the legendary magic of light, and the truth behind her Disappeared Dad, Jidan, and the True Book of Spells that he once gave to her.
Who is Sigma?
Sigma is the first individual warlock to appear in the series proper, the young son of a prophet, and the Enigmatic Minion from Wizard Kingdom, the technologically advanced underground capital city of the Warlock Realm. Even though he works in the reconnoitering party of the warlock military, he joins Arusu and her friends as their guide on the Warlock Realm.
What has he endured?
Before the beginning of the series, Sigma's father advised Grande, the leader and general of the warlocks, against using the forbidden dark magic, foretelling that a savior would save the Magical Realm from its doom. Grande had the prophet Swallowed Whole in front of a younger Sigma.
Since then, he pretends to obey Grande, secretly looking for an opportunity to find the savior and help her save the Magical Realm. Early on, he reveals to Sheila that he suffers from trust issues ("you can only believe in yourself"), something he considers her Not So Different from him for. As the Laser-Guided Karma hits him, he goes through a Break the Haughty phase played as a tragic subversion of Kick the Son of a Bitch. He orders Sheila to make Eva confess where the True Book of Spells is, only for her to reveal that she only pretends to still be under his control so she can rescue Eva from Wizard Kingdom. When Sheila takes him hostage to flee Wizard Kingdom with Eva, the warlock police decide to discard him, telling him not to hold a grudge against them because he can only blame himself for his failure to bring the warlocks the True Book of Spells and a witch, both of which they need to cast dark magic. In a rare moment of age-appropriate reaction, he looks devastated that Wil calls him a nuisance right to his face, refusing to take him along with Arusu and her friends. Just after Wil helps Arusu and her friends flee Wizard Kingdom, one of the police officers kicks him down from a height into the prison. By the time he makes a return, he has become a miserable prisoner with all his arrogance gone from him.
In the Grand Finale, he is one of the people who have their hearts driven to despair with dark magic, though he recovers alongside the other victims as soon as Arusu undoes dark magic with the magic of light.
Sigma begins as a representation of what Sheila would have ended up without her mother and friends. He is a bitter Enfant Terrible; he makes it clear that he lives only for his own values and his own satisfaction; he despises Eva as a burden for being weak; he manipulates Arusu and her friends into believing lies he makes up to bring Grande the True Book of Spells; in the Japanese version, he addresses the wizards, an oppressed Dying Race of magic-using warlocks, with "-domo", the rude suffix indicating plural, implying that he looks down on them as the remnant of the old order; when Arusu is about to give Nito, a young beggar wizard, food, he warns her that she should not be involved with the wizards; he forces Sheila into bringing the warlocks herself as a witch they need to cast dark magic; he almost endangers his cellmate, Jidan, in an effort to get out of prison together by suggesting Tiana, a commander of the warlocks, that the warlocks take Jidan hostage to demand the True Book of Spells from Arusu; and he has betrayed his alliances twice. Even when he shoots a warlock soldier to save Eva, he does so not out of altruism, but to win Sheila's trust. However, he has a redeeming quality (wanting to honor his father) and Pet the Dog moments; during his Good All Along reveal, he makes it clear that he respects his father's last act as the right thing, which is why he rescues Arusu, the savior, from getting sucked up by the destruction of Wizard Kingdom. By the Grand Finale, he joins the wizards without malice after the destruction of Wizard Kingdom, being no longer the manipulative Social Darwinist he once was.
Sigma is a competent Child Soldier, shooting a warlock soldier to save Eva and later defeating some police officers without breaking a sweat. The only time he can't fight back is when one of the police officers kicks him down from a height into the prison.
In a setting full of missing parents, Sigma is one of only two to watch a parent die during childhood, with Magica being the other. However, while Magica's father, Jestor, only died of Incurable Cough of Death (if I remember correctly), Sigma saw his father die a Cruel and Unusual Death for defying their boss.
Edited by IukaSylvie on Jul 28th 2019 at 3:15:01 AM
US's Red, voting on Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds status after seven days:
New to the Thread.
to Those recently proposed.
I'm...A little conflicted on Salem really. Primarily cause The Narrative makes it clear She could have ended her suffering Years ago had she simply learned her lesson on life and death, but...weak for the time being.
Edited by Kylotrope on Apr 5th 2019 at 12:42:39 PM
I'm not sure you would make a good EP.
Edited by MasterJoseph on Apr 4th 2019 at 9:39:59 AM
...That's admittedly too harsh.
Edited by Kylotrope on Apr 5th 2019 at 12:40:50 PM
I honestly can't get my hopes up for seeing a successful candidate from you.
I'm going to be offline until April 12th so do not expect any more posts from me until then. See ya! (Logging off now.)
Edited by EmeraldSky on Apr 5th 2019 at 5:20:39 AM
It's better to not even say anything at all.
Agreed. My dad has told me that if you have nothing nice to say to someone, don't say it at all.
Edited by MasterJoseph on Apr 5th 2019 at 9:07:54 AM
Yes to Sigma.
I was a yes as well, just a very cautious one. That makes six.
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How well does it match the trope?