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The Woobie Cleanup

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Klavice As if! from Pacific Canada Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
As if!
Oct 9th 2018 at 3:16:43 PM

Alright, so here it is, the long-awaited Woobie cleanup.

This was a long time coming as tons of media have a woobie page, but I'm not sure if they should all be kept.

I'll need a moderator's help, so I'm hoping a mod can help with this, and we can make this trope a fun, yet sad trope.

Edit: I had no intention of making this like a Complete Monster bureaucratic style cleanup. Thank you to everyone who voiced their concerns. This is now a basic thread to get rid of bad and Zero Context Examples. To the members of this clean up please put the re-evaluated examples back unless they are really badly written or ZCE. I thank all of you for your support. Klavice out.

What is the woobie?

A woobie is a character who you feel sorry, maybe not immediately, but by checking out the work you can tell they have suffered. However the reason I feel this trope gets misused is because people apply this trope to people who have even slightly suffered. For instance, a bully victim who gets picked on, but never shows his/her feelings, would fall under Iron Woobie. A woobie must be a very emotional character, ergo, sociopaths cannot qualify. Edit: It has come to my attention that some characters can be accidental woobies and what's more, sociopaths can technically qualify. It just depends on their circumstances really. For instance Light Yagami wouldn't be one but Misa Amane might be one.

What is NOT a woobie? Common mistakes:

Jerkass Woobie (A character who is consistently a Jerkass should go here. Eric Cartman for example cannot be a woobie because while you can feel sorry for him being bullied for being fat, he is nevertheless a complete jackass who only cares about himself, and is every form of prejudice possible.)

Iron Woobie (This is where main characters should go, unless they cannot defend themselves. I.E Luke Skywalker would not be a woobie, he would be a Iron Woobie. But a character like Pearl Fey from Ace Attorney, would go in the woobie page).

Stoic Woobie: This is a character who has suffered so much they tend not to show it. Less likely to crack under pressure than the Iron Woobie, but no less sympathetic. I.E Auron from Final Fantasy X would be a Stoic Woobie.

Wheelchair Woobie: This is a character who's confined to a wheelchair for some reason. They can generally be any type of Woobie, so long as they are in a Wheelchair, but know this, they have to be sympathetic. Either as an intended audience reaction or by the characters in-universe saying "Man, Jack has suffered a lot and he still can't get out of that wheelchair." If a character ditches the wheelchair, they can still count for the period they had it.

Woobie Family: Oh what's this? An entire family of woobies. Again, this is pretty broad. If every character in a designated family qualifies for one of these tropes, they can be listed here.

Woobie Species: This is a species that has suffered so much that almost (or all) the characters in said species qualify for The Woobie or its subtropes to some degree. If a species for example is doomed to die for one reason or another, they can qualify.

Unsympathetic Comedy Protagonist (These are immediately put in Jerkass Woobie territory, a woobie is something you're meant to feel sorry for. While this is a YMMV trope, I'd prefer it if people used it correctly.)

Complete Monster: Why anyone would think this is woobie material, I have absolutely no idea, but I have seen characters such as Dahlia Hawthorne getting the Jerkass Woobie treatment when we are NOT meant to feel sorry for them. This is Draco in Leather Pants treatment and should be dealt with as such. If a character does atrocious deeds, but in the end we are meant to feel sorry for them, that is either Jerkass Woobie or Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds. Sociopaths can count if there's a legitimately pitiable backstory, but if it's something like "Emperor Devilus murdered an orphanage, destroyed thousands of lives with a nuke, and killed a newborn baby by slicing the fetus in half, because Humans bullied him." Yeah... Probably not going to fly.

The Scrappy: If a character is hated in-universe or fairly hated by the fandom like Jar Jar or Scrappy. HOWEVER, if a character is unfairly hated for one thing that the fandom never lives down such as Angel Bunny from MLP or Erika from the Pokemon anime they can still count. Especially if said character like the former is generally Rescued from the Scrappy Heap. Again what part of woobie they are depends bur generally they would be Jerkass Woobie.

Asshole Victim: If a character is meant to be seen as an asshole victim, they should be removed. If they have a sympathetic backstory, but are still an AV, they would go under Jerkass Woobie. Remember, not everyone with a sympathetic backstory is a woobie.

Groups: This should be obvious, but just saying "The entire Organization XIII qualifies" is misleading, as like Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard, this focuses on one person.

Real Life: To some extent everyone is a woobie so to avoid overdosing the trope, we've decided to cut all Real Life (and thus Pro Wrestling) examples. The exception is if the person is an actor. For example Let's Players or a contestant on a reality show.

Fill me in if there are any tropes I've missed that cannot be the woobie.

If the character is The Chew Toy, a Jerkass, or a Hate Sink, he is also not the Woobie (unless the character is also meant to be sympathetic). If the character doesn't let bad events faze him, he is not the Woobie, they are an Iron Woobie. A small, one-off bad event does not make the character the Woobie, though it may qualify as a Tear Jerker.

Another rule is that like CM and MB, you cannot add your own characters to this trope. If you want your fanfic or original story to have a Woobie, let someone else read it and bring it up.

Never Again List

  • Definitely not a woobie of any kind: Lotso (While he may have been abandoned the movie makes it very clear that HE abandoned his owner and not the other way around. And simply being abandoned does not give you the right to commit Genocide of setient toys.

What inspired you to do a cleanup? Why do a cleanup?

Well, I saw various other tropes with a cleanup, but did not see one for The Woobie. If there exists one, and I am not aware of it, I apologize, but I feel this is absolutely necessary since at this point, everyone in the whole dang creative world can be a woobie, and that is not what the trope is for.

What is your goal?

My goal is simple, separating main woobies from Jerkass Woobies and Iron Woobies. If a page does not have an iron/jerkass woobie section, I intend to change that. For example, on the Simpsons page, I was putting characters like Sideshow Bob in the Jerkass Woobie section, I intend to do this with every page, including works I've not seen/played/read for that I will need some help. That's where you all come in.

So without further ado, let's start!

Warning, this WILL contain unmarked spoilers!

Edit: Here is the template for anyone who wants to contribute or contest a new example.

What's the work?

Briefly summarize the work in a nutshell. Don't make it too long just make it so people can follow along who have never heard of the work. Not required for more well known works but recommeded for lesser known works.

Who is s/he?

Basic description on who the character is.

What is their predicament?

Detail into what makes them a woobie. Try to make this as long as possible so we can understand each character.

Can they defend themselves/are they a Jerkass?

Basically on if the character can fight and if he or she can fight back or if they are a Jerkass. Critical in determining where they belong.

Sympathy Standard?

What characters besides this character stand up to them? Or how they measure up to other sympathetic characters?

Verdict?

Your final thoughts as to where they belong.

While this template isn't required per se, it is recommended so we get enough information to judge.

Edited by Klavice on Sep 11th 2019 at 11:58:34 AM

Pending Writeups, Drafts Discussion Dates
Klavice As if! from Pacific Canada Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
As if!
Oct 9th 2018 at 3:48:27 PM

Starting things off, let's start with the Ace Attorney page.

Original Ace Attorney Series:

  • Miles Edgeworth who thought he killed his father when he was nine and has had nightmares about it nearly every single night for 15 years. The incident also caused a paralyzing and debilitating fear of earthquakes. At best, he curls into a trembling ball on the floor. At worst, he faints from sheer terror. His phobia is so severe that airplane turbulence can trigger it. He will likely have this phobia for the rest of his life. To top it all off, he's a prickly, borderline-Jerkass Woobie who has trouble opening up to people, even the ones he knows have his back no matter what, and he won't ask for help even when he desperately needs it.

Move to Iron Woobie.

  • Detective Gumshoe, a lovable kind-hearted character who is constantly getting his salary cut and often whipped by Franziska for simple mistakes, some of which are not even his fault. Gumshoe was even accused of murder by a corrupt prosecutor, and at the point of the flashback case, he didn't even have enough money for a snack, but pooled in his money with a little girl and they shared a snack together, showing just how kind-hearted Gumshoe can be. This is BEFORE his salary got cut. If it lessens the blow a bit, he DID eventually get a salary raise at the end of Investigations 2. But his fate in Apollo Justice and beyond is left ambiguous, and it's implied he was fired by Klavier. However, a bit of optional dialogue in Spirit of Justice that appears when Phoenix presents evidence to Edgeworth that he has no opinion on (such as his attorney's badge) during Case 6-5, implies that he is still working as a detective, though the same dialogue also implies that Edgeworth is back to cutting his salary.

Keep as Gumshoe does generally let his troubles affect him.

  • Maya Fey gets put through Hell and back in the original trilogy. Case 1-2 has her accused of the murder of her own sister. Case 1-4 has her feeling utterly useless for being unable to channel Mia when they needed her most. Case 2-2 has her believe she allowed a spirit she channeled to murder someone, traumatizing her to the point of stopping her spirit medium training altogether. Case 2-4 has her kidnapped by an assassin for ransom and nearly starved to death. Case 3-5 has her finally regain enough confidence to continue her training, only to be caught in a plot to have herself killed which is only foiled by her own mother essentially sacrificing herself. By this point, she is so broken she doesn't want anything to do with the Fey clan, opting to give her occupation as the assistant manager at Wright & Co. Law Offices (which, while true, is not her primary obligation) when called as a witness. Somebody give this girl a hug. Then in Spirit of Justice when she returns She's almost kidnapped but saved by Defiant Dragon Nahyuta, accused of murder AGAIN, and then accused of murder one more time while channeling Nahyuta and Apollo's father Dhurke Sadhmadhi.

Maya is very much an Iron Woobie.

  • Players may feel particularly sorry for Adrian Andrews because they have to personally pin the crime on her to prolong a trial, and later make a Sadistic Choice between her life or Maya's. That's not all though. Not only is she completely innocent, but she has tried to kill herself because of her dependency, and begs you for help throughout the trial. Her dependency is the real issue here, her pillar of strength killed herself and she lost the will to live. Thankfully when you meet her again, she's a lot calmer, though still no less clumsy and Adorkable.
    • As far as victims go, Celeste Inpax is probably one of the sadder cases. She was originally Matt Engarde's manager and as Adrian describes it, was the happiest woman ever. Then she was used by Engarde and tossed away. Then she became Juan Corrida's manager and just as she was about to get married to Juan, he called off the wedding because he found out from Engarde that she was "used goods" causing Celeste in her despair to kill herself. It's implied they were using Celeste in their own petty war just to profit from it, and treated her more like an object than a love interest. This would be the catalyst in Adrian's attempted suicide and the reason for why she framed Matt.

Easy keeps for both. Although Celeste sounds like an Iron Woobie.

  • Franziska, who - it is implied - has become this sealed-off whip-wielding Ice Queen due entirely to her father and his (likely rather soul-killing, given his personality) demand for perfection, as well as some kind of complex re:Edgeworth and a fear that she'll never be as worthy in her father's eyes as her adopted brother.

Move to Jerkass Woobie.

  • Will Powers, a lovable, gentle children's entertainer who just happens to have a very intimidating look about him and has to wear a mask in all of his roles because of it. Framed for murder of a guy who had intended to frame him for a different murder. The circumstances of said murder cause the show he stars in to be cancelled. He's also apparently out of a job after the second show he stars in finishes. He does seem to nab a role as Moozilla in Investigations 2, so at least it lasted that long, but still...

This I could see staying where it is as Will seems to be affected by his bad luck.

  • Ini actually Mimi Miney in case 2-2. The poor girl is overworked and stressed out to the point where she has a nervous breakdown and accidentally kills 14 people by giving them the wrong medication. As if this easily life-ruining event wasn't bad enough, two weeks afterwards she gets into a horrible car crash, killing her younger sister Ini and getting her face burnt beyond recognition. She takes advantage of it by having her face reconstructed as Ini's to make everyone else think it was Mimi who perished in the crash, allowing her to escape her miserable life once and for all. Except even that doesn't last, because not even a year later her old boss comes knocking to our good friend Maya Fey to have her channel the believed-to-be-deceased Mimi so that said boss can prove once and for all that the aforementioned mass manslaughter wasn't his fault, forcing Mimi to kill him to avoid it getting out that she's not actually dead whilst also unwittingly becoming a pawn in one of the series's resident villains' far more sinister plot. Trauma Conga Line doesn't even begin to describe it. It helps that her boss was an Asshole Victim.

Mimi is very much a Jerkass Woobie.

  • Acro in the much-hated Case 2-3: a former acrobat and Friend to All Living Things orphaned at a young age and adopted by the circus owner, now confined to a wheelchair and unable to leave his room by himself after a stupid prank by the girl his brother was in love went wrong, leaving him crippled and his brother in a permanent coma, and the girl blissfully unaware that she could possibly have done anything wrong. And to make things worse, when he tried to get revenge on her for effectively killing his brother, he accidentally murdered his beloved adoptive father instead.
    • Acro's woobie-ness is cranked up in the anime where we actually see him crying at several times, and we see just how deep his resentment of Regina went in making him practically living in a nightmare.
  • Max Galactica from the same case. Yes, he's extremely arrogant, but that's only skin deep. In reality, all he wants is for his fellow performers to shoot for the stars. Acro, despite framing him, describes him as having a diamond shining in his soul. With that said, Acro is the only one besides Regina who has anything nice to say about him throughout the case. Aside from Russell Berry, Regina, and Acro everyone hates his guts and only see the Jerk part of his Jerk with a Heart of Gold self and accuse him of murder. Even Acro tries to frame him. Early on in the case, it's revealed he lived on a poor farm and joined the circus to pay off his Dad's farm debt. His real name? Billy Bob Johns. Let's just say Maya is very shocked by this. If you can see past the facade of arrogance, he's actually a very sympathetic character.
  • Regina. Just...Regina. Everytime she appears, someone betrays her and/or tries to kill her. And let's just say she can cause quite some accidents...
    • That's not even the half of it. Regina first lost her mother when she was very young, her big brother figure tried to kill her and ended up killing her dad instead, her first boyfriend got into a coma from an accident she unknowingly started, one of her boyfriends is a total jackass who's only real redeeming quality is his love for her, and then her next two boyfriends are accused of murder. That's not even going into the fact that her fourth boyfriend is a murderer himself, and ends up being one of the series most clever villains. And then there's her Scrappy status with the fandom for her accidental role in Bat getting into a coma...
    • The anime even has her attempt to save Acro when all that's revealed by trying a Take Me Instead. It fails, but it's implied thanks to Edgeworth, Acro wasn't given a life sentence or death, given that the death was accidental.
  • And to round out the case 2-3 characters, we have Moe. He's a Bumbling Dad figure to the rest of the circus, especially Regina after the Ringmaster is killed, he has a divorced wife and child who presumably hate him and has to pay alimony to with what little money he gets, and his best friend the Ringmaster was killed by Acro, who was like a son to him. That's not even going into the fact that no one laughs at his jokes no matter how hard he tries, he's a bit of a klutz, and is one of the most hated characters in the entire franchise.

Aside from Regina, these are all Iron Woobies. Max leans on Jerkass Woobie considering he wants to marry an underage (at the time) girl, and cleans the clock of one of his co-workers, Jerkass he may be. Would also move Acro to Jerkass Woobie.

  • Where do we begin with Viola Cadaverini? First, she got into a traffic accident like Mimi above, only instead of her face being destroyed, she suffers a severe blow to the head which probably gave her nasty brain damage. The guy who caused the accident: Furio Tigre only paid her medical bills because her grandfather was the boss of the most dangerous criminals in the entire country. He feels no remorse for what he's done, and forces Viola to help him frame an innocent waitress and kill an unlucky guy, just so he can get the money to pay Viola's medical bills, again not because he cared. It's also revealed that she's not really a bad person (just a tad homicidal probably from her head injury) and thanks Phoenix after he brings Tigre to justice.

Given most of her homicidal tendencies aren't her fault, I'd say keep.

  • Diego Armando/Godot is a good example of Jerkass Woobie. He's a real jerk to Phoenix and his plan of dealing with Morgan Fey's plan to kill Maya was stupid and self-centered, a fact he himself admits despite protecting Maya, and he personally killed Misty. But come on! He got poisoned by a murderous bitch, the woman he loves was murdered while he was in a six-year coma, and he has to constantly go through agonizing medical treatments just to stay alive. Deep down, he's hiding so much despair, guilt, and self-loathing that it's amazing he can even show up to court.

Easy move to Jerkass Woobie, the entry even states that.

  • Maggey Byrde. As she states in each appearance, she's been experiencing a string of bad luck since she was six months old, when she fell off the balcony of her ninth-story apartment. In-series, she's been (wrongfully) accused of (at least) three murders, been on trial for said murders twice (three times if you count one retrial), and even convicted of one (though that one eventually was overturned). In addition, she's lost her job three times, each time as a direct or indirect result of a murder accusation. And that's just part of the bad luck we get to see for ourselves. Is it any wonder why Gumshoe sympathizes with her?

Maggey kinda falls under The Chew Toy, although a heroic example. I'd say move to Iron Woobie.

  • Ema Skye. First, her sister Lana (who is the only family she has) gets wrongfully accused of murder. Then her big brother figure, Jake Marshall acts cold and aloof towards her. Another one of her sister's friends accuses her sister of murder having witnessed her stabbing the victim. But the real kicker is the SL-9 incident where Ema is nearly killed by accomplished serial killer Joe Darke, accidentally shoves Neil Marshall who was trying to save her, and is later accused of killing him with the decisive evidence being the jar with her name written on it in Marshall's blood and the cloth cut from his coat with her handprint on it. All set up by Chief Damon Gant who watches as this innocent 16 year old girl is nearly convicted of murder that she didn't commit at all. Did I mention she was willing to accept that she accidentally killed Neil if it could get Lana acquitted? Is it any wonder why she's so bitter and cynical by Apollo Justice?
    • Lana counts as well. She spent two years convinced that Ema had accidentally killed Neil. To cover it up, she cooperated with (read: was blackmailed by) Gant to give him complete authority over the legal system. In order to cope with this, she had to recede behind an ice cold persona, knowing full well that she'd be shutting out mostly everyone, even her own sister.

Lana is an Iron Woobie, and Ema is also an Iron Woobie though given she nearly gets convicted of murder, I'm inclined to lean towards main woobie.

  • Phoenix Wright himself counts. Everyone, literally EVERYONE, takes advantage of him at the end of each game by making him pay for expensive meals, cameras, and the like, which is even brought up again in Dual Destinies. Not to mention he loses his job in Apollo Justice and mentions that Trucy is his "light". Someone give this man a hug.

First bit could do with a change, as it really only solidifies him as a Butt-Monkey.

  • One of his formative memories as a child was being falsely accused of stealing another student's lunch money. Miles Edgeworth and Larry Butz came to his defense, but in the moment before they did he was all alone, with an entire classroom — and even the teacher — yelling at him and accusing him. It left such a strong impression on him that he had to become a defense attorney, just to help other people who are backed into a corner with no one to help them.
  • And then there's his early career. First, Phoenix believed for many years that he fell madly in love with a manipulative serial killer who, after tricking him into helping her escape being convicted for killing the boyfriend of his beloved mentor and the woman who saved his life, tried to kill him and ended up killing someone else trying to warn him about her. Then, shortly after he becomes a lawyer, his friend and mentor is murdered, and the actual murderer tries to frame HIM for it. Then comes a series of trials where he is continually bullied and disrespected by EVERYONE, and not to mention put in severe danger and huge dilemmas numerous times, because he is pretty much the only one who can help his clients. He constantly puts his career, reputation, and sometimes his own life on the line for the sake of those who have nobody on their side, and doesn't get shit in return. His second-to-last trial reveals that the girl he fell in love with was the twin sister, yet completely different person, of the aforementioned monster. Though he still clearly cares for her, it seems he can't be with her, at least partially because she is put in jail for being an after-the-fact accomplice to murder. THEN, after winning that case and surpassing his mentor (and thus her spirit leaving him), he loses his job, reputation, and (maybe) friends because he fell into a trap set by another monster who decided to destroy his life just because the client hired Phoenix over the asshole, and because said client was also a jackass who wouldn't give Phoenix the damn evidence that would have cleared him immediately. Phoenix spends the next seven years as a hobo, playing poker and caring for the abandoned daughter of that jackass client, before he FINALLY makes everything right. How he is still able to be a good, determined, and unbreakable man, let alone SANE, after all this crap is nothing short of a MIRACLE! He needs A LOT of hugging!
  • It gets better! In Apollo Justice, he's also injured several times because he hasn't already been a Butt-Monkey enough, has he?
  • And it doesn't stop there either. In Dual Destinies, things seemed to be looking up. He got his badge back courtesy of Edgeworth, he has a new protege in Athena Cykes alongside Apollo Justice and they were going on as well as they could. Then Apollo's best friend gets murdered and Athena's inadvertent connection to the case plus his Perceive ability makes him take a leave of absence due to being unable to fully trust her (and he already had some unresolved issues with Phoenix still lingering from AA4). On top of that, after turning a case around Athena gets accused which sends her off to prison. And then, Trucy gets taken hostage by a staged robot rebellion. Oh, and the favor that he was supposed to do for Edgeworth is in danger of failing as he was supposed to absolve Blackquill for his crime 7 years ago and he was due for execution tomorrow! In the middle of this Nick had walked back to the Agency a sorrowful and beaten man. The only thing that saved him was the fact that he and Maya Fey have grown so close that she was able to feel his sorrow all the way from Kurain Village and sent Pearl and a letter to him to immediately pick his spirits back up. If not for her, Phoenix would've lost everything all over again in the span of one day.
  • Then there's Spirit of Justice where Phoenix travels to the distant Japan inspired kingdom of Khura'in to meet Maya, but gets caught up in a trial in a country where being a defense attorney is outlawed and punishable by death. Phoenix goes through hell and back to save his clients in this mysterious foreign land, including Maya (again) putting his life on the line (literally this time thanks to the Defense Culpability Act) and pretty much lost everything when Maya gets kidnapped by Justice Minister Inga, forcing him to defend yet another client he knows is guilty. Turns out, she was really channeling Dhurke Sadhmadhi so Apollo could see his father again, but is accused of murdering Justice Minister Inga in the final case. If it hadn't been for Apollo stepping up and putting his life on the line, Phoenix would have lost everything AGAIN.

Phoenix is an Iron Woobie extraordinaire at this point and has shown to be Made of Iron.

Ace Attorney Investigations Arc:

  • Lauren Paups, desperately in love with a rich boy who didn't care about her at all and tried to not only pin her father's murder on her, but to actually make her believe herself to be the killer. And speaking of her father, she had no idea who he was before he was already dead.

Keep.

  • Sebastian Debeste, thanks to his dad Blaise. Said father actually changed his kid's grades so he could give his child the illusion he was a genius, while withholding the truth from him. Then he proceeds to berate him in court later. Sure, Sebastian snaps out of it thanks to Edgeworth, but you feel a serious satisfaction knowing Blaise won't be bullying his son again. Also, at one point in the final case, Blaise actually leaves the witness stand and suggests "going home" with his son to "play". At those words, Sebastian starts trembling.

Keep. Although Fridge Horror should be removed.

  • Katherine Hall and Jeff Master. To start off with, Katherine (or Kate) was a Doorstep Baby for Master back 16 years prior to 2000 (when the IS-7 and DLC incidents happened) leading to them doing a nice show Piece of Cake which ended with tragedy as Kate discovered the body of Isaac Dover aka: Pierre Hoquet in Master's room, causing the police to suspect Master, Kate's own father figure. What's more, the interrogation was so horrid, it turned Master's hair white when he wasn't even 43 yet. The prosecutor Von Karma scared a confession out of Master to protect Kate from being indicted as an accomplice. Then some 18 years later, Kate decides to set up a trap to catch the culprit of the case to save her father only to wind up getting caught herself. In the end, the culprit, Dane Gustavia, was brought to justice, and Master was sent free, but these two had a very rough life.

Both are IW, hands down.

  • Simon Keyes (known in the original Japanese version as Sota Sarushiro) had a terrible father too. In fact, that's probably why he did what he did. He just couldn't stand up to his father's expectations. Let's talk about him more. Basically he was abused by his biological father, who made him taste sweets because he lost his sense of taste. He was tied up and locked in a car by one of the kids be befriended, Manosuke Naito (aka Horace Knightley), who's father also happened to be a Jerkass. Horace and Keyes nearly froze to death there but were saved by the assassin Sirhan Dogen. They were then adopted by an Orphanage of Fear. Since then, Keyes had dedicated his entire life to ruining the lives of Dogen's enemies and manages to get all of them convicted, including Knightley who betrayed him. So to summarize, he had basically no real childhood friends which made him something of a misanthrope, and wanted to pay back the only man who treated him with kindness. Sure he did use unethical methods such as kidnapping a 13-year old boy with the intention of framing him for murder, and framing the innocent Kay Faraday for another murder in order to get Blaise Debeste convicted, making him something of a He Who Fights Monsters, but his childhood was practically nonexistent. To pay him back for what he did, the assassin Dogen saved Simon after De Killer turned on him and tried to kill him. It helps that Keyes is regarded as one of the series best villains.

Looks like we might need a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds section. As this would be perfect.

Apollo Justice, Dual Destinies, and Spirit of Justice Arc:

  • Apollo Justice counts just as much as his mentor by taking Butt-Monkey to a somewhat unfunny extreme, especially during Dual Destinies. First off, he's an orphan mentored by Kristoph Gavin. In addition, in Apollo Justice, everyone mocks him for his loud voice including his own biological mother. (To be fair, she didn't even know she had children. And Klavier, Trucy and Phoenix were more friendly teasing.) Unlike Phoenix, he's also treated like a high schooler when he's 23 years old and barely gets any respect from the police officers. And it only gets worse in Dual Destinies when it turns out his best childhood friend was killed and the suspect is his longtime idol. During the trial for his idol, a bomb goes off and Apollo heroically protects Juniper Woods from the rubble sustaining serious injuries. Finally, he's struck on the head by the bomb operator suspect and ends up in a hospital. At last, it becomes too much for poor Apollo and he takes a leave of absence. Ouch...
    • It gets worse in Spirit of Justice where he learns that his father died in a fire caused by the usurper queen of Khura'in — a fire in which the infant Apollo also nearly died, and the trauma of which caused his mother to flee the country. He was adopted by defense attorney and previous king Dhurke Sadhmadhi, who raised him alongside his own son until he was about 13 and then took him to America to keep him safe from Ga'ran. When Apollo finally reunited with Nahyuta, his foster brother, he saw a cold, hyper-religious man who acted like they'd never met. Then, when Dhurke finally came back for him and it looked like their father-son bond could be restored, Apollo learned that Dhurke had already been murdered by Justice Minister Inga, and Maya had been channeling him the entire time. So Apollo has lost two fathers, and the only family he has left are Nahyuta (now much nicer since he's out from under Ga'ran's thumb), his sister Trucy, and their mother Thalassa — and he isn't even aware of his relationship to the last two.

Apollo is a Butt-Monkey, but he's easily an Iron Woobie given his tragic backstory.

  • Vera Misham seems to be the biggest Woobie of all of them. A life indoors, completely cut-off from society, unknowingly forged paintings, nearly killed from one of her habits, extremely shy, etc.

This is one of those hard ones as it doesn't really state why she's a woobie. Though I would keep it.

  • Another one of Apollo's clients, Wocky Kitaki could qualify as well, but given his personality, he's probably more of a Jerkass Woobie. Let's see. He has a bullet almost right next to his heart which both the doctor and nurse covered up. Had he really been the murderer, he'd probably be one of the most justified murderers in the series if he found out about his botched surgery. But he's completely innocent and got framed by his finacee, who didn't marry him for love, rather she married him because she knew he was going to die and she'd have the family fortune all to herself. Despite all this, Wocky still continues to defend Alita, and blames Apollo for getting his finacee convicted even after she spells it out that she never married him for love.

Move to Jerkass Woobie.

  • Klavier can also qualify for having prosecuted both his brother and his best friend and bandmate and because of this, having to disband his own band, which he really loved considering how much he gushes about it. You can tell he's putting on a brave face when he's accusing his brother. There's also the implication that he was bullied by his brother shown in the manga and heavily implied in the game by Kristoph threatening him when he's accused. Then, his mentor figure Constance Courte dies, and he just wants to catch the killer to avenge her death, even being extremely helpful to Apollo and Athena. He's pretty much a Stepford Smiler. It helps he's one of the more genuinely nice prosecutors who never did anything amoral and just wanted to find the truth from the start.

Klavier is a Nice Guy, but he rarely lets his troubles out, so I'd say Iron Woobie.

  • Trucy doesn't get off much better, despite being adopted by Phoenix. First, her mother supposedly dies while rehearsing a trick with her dad and her uncle, then a few years later her grandfather dies under mysterious circumstances and the only viable suspects are her dad (who gets arrested for it) and her uncle. She gets roped into helping her dad run away from court when she's eight years old and he doesn't return for her, leaving her with the guy who just got disbarred because her uncle ends up in jail in lieu of her dad. When her dad finally appears again, when she's 15, he goes to see Phoenix and then gets murdered. Phoenix ends up getting arrested for his murder. THEN her panties get stolen. Then next year she gets taken hostage. And then, in Spirit of Justice she gets accused of murder and almost loses her beloved talent agency due to the jackass former mentor of Troupe Gramarye. Let's just say she's starting to rival Maya in woobieness.

Easy move to Iron Woobie part.

  • Dual Destinies, in addition to Apollo, has quite a few other characters who qualify.
    • Let's start with Athena. First at the tender age of 11, she witnesses her mother being murdered, and her big brother figure being convicted for her mother. She also has the misfortune of having her best friend accused for murder twice. Athena also didn't have a father to look after her so she lived with her relatives in Europe. Later on, she gets accused of murder again when her prints are found on conclusive evidence of the murder of Apollo's best friend. This poor girl has gone through a Trauma Conga Line and yet still manages to keep smiling.
    • Though he might not seem like it at first, Prosecutor Simon Blackquill deserves a hug and a long vacation. He thought Athena had murdered her mother and pled guilty to the crime himself to protect her, sacrificing his career, reputation, freedom, and nearly his life. On the very day before his execution, he is dragged into court and forced to give testimony that will damn Athena, making his seven years in prison all for nothing and suffering a near-Heroic BSoD in the process. His parallels to Godot make him a very sympathetic antagonist, Taking the Heat for the daughter of his mentor so she could live a happy life. But things get a lot better for him (and Athena) after that.

Both of these are Iron Woobies.

  • Jinxie and Mayor Damian Tenma. Jinxie is extremely superstitious seeing Apollo as a demon, thinking she saw an ancient demon when really it was the mansion's caretaker Phineas Filch in disguise saw the Amazing Ninetails mask over the killer who she thought was her own father Florent L'Belle in disguise having just killed the alderman. Her father is a nice innocent guy similar to Will Powers who cares for his daughter enough to attempt a prison break to stop her tormentors and is very shy with people and is really a badass wrestler. Both of them lost Jinxie's mom who was from Nine tails vale and Jinxie carries a flower to remind herself of her deceased mother.

Move Damian to Iron, and keep Jinxie as regular woobie.

  • Robin Newman could be seen as one, given she was forced to live life as a guy for most of her life thanks to her dad, her two best friends are accused of murder by the police and Athena, and she feels envious of Juniper's popularity implying she's not very popular with the guys or girls like her friend is.
  • Juniper Woods is a more obvious example especially after being subjected to constant verbal abuse from Gaspen Payne, who drove the poor girl to tears. She's easily frightened and has fits of coughing as well as an inhaler implying she has asthma. In the third case, she acts all collected but as soon as she starts doubting her two best friends, she breaks down. In the first case, she also nearly got crushed by rubble, but was protected by Apollo, who she owes a debt of gratitude to.

Keep. Though "could be seen" is Weasel Words. I'd say Robin goes to Iron Woobie since she never lets her struggles get to her.

  • Hugh O'Conner may seem like a typical Jerkass Insufferable Genius who brags about his good grades to everyone. Except that he's not. He's been held back at least 7 years and the only reason he has high grades in the first place is because his parents were fed up with him failing tests so they bribed Aristotle Means, the teacher, to give him straight As. He's a woobie in the same vein as Yumihiko. He tries to take the heat for Juniper along with her other best friend Robin, and goes completely insane. That's right, this young man is willing to confess to a crime he didn't commit if it will save his best friends. That's true loyalty, right there. Thankfully, he's given a bone by winning the mock trial and presumably getting better grades.

Easy move to Jerkass Woobie.

  • Myriam Scuttlebutt. She's a girl who's jealous of Juniper's popularity, is a social outcast from what we've seen of her, and just wants friends. Unfortunately, she attempts to get friends by getting "dirt" on Juniper and her two friends. She even breaks her computer (which, while played for laughs) causes even Athena to feel bad for her and offer her to use the computer at the Law Offices. After the case, Juniper invites Myriam to join her circle of friends.

Not sure on this one. Part of me wants to move it to Jerkass Woobie considering what she does to Juniper's reputation, but the other wants to cut it entirely as she is seen as The Chew Toy.

  • Clay Terran, the victim of Case 5-4 was very close to Apollo and an extremely happy young man. His father died early on in his life and his mother died during his junior high days in a car crash. Apollo cheered him up and the fact that he was such a Nice Guy and Apollo's inspiration is just heart-wrenching when you realize how close Apollo was with Terran.

Clay is very much an Iron Woobie as he is a heroic character, and fought the phantom.

  • As of the DLC case, the upbeat Sasha Buckler and even the culprit though he didn't kill the victim, Marlon Rimes qualify. To begin, Sasha has a heart condition (one that could possible be fatal), and despite all this, is put on trial for the murder of her Benevolent Boss and father figure, Jack Shipley. Rimes lost his girlfriend to an unfortunate accident and isn't very social with people despite his Nice Guy attitude. Wanting to take revenge for his girlfriend's accidental death due to a heart condition, he tried to drain the water from the orca pool and kill Orla, the orca inside the pool and, in doing so, accidentally caused the murder of Jack Shipley, who is one of the few characters in the series who nobody has anything bad to say about and is apparently an extremely kind and benevolent man. He even feels bad about all of this, and regrets having to testify against Sasha, who looks surprisingly like his girlfriend, making him one of the most sympathetic antagonists since Acro. He's also really good with animals, especially the penguins and generally prefers the company of animals to people. These two had it rough.

Iron Woobie for both of them, as while Marlon is an attempted murderer, he immediately feels guilt for it when he finds out the whale is innocent, and is easily the most sympathetic villain in the series. As for Sasha, she's a Genki Girl, but does have a dangerous heart condition so I'd say keep but move to Iron Woobie.

  • From Spirit of Justice:
    • In case 6-2, Bonny de Famme. She's a shy, clumsy, humble magician who admires Trucy so deeply and is thrilled to be performing with her. But then, she and her twin sister are tricked into aiding Roger Retinz in committing a murder to frame Trucy and ruin her reputation. Said twin sister also constantly bullies her into silence, poses as Bonny to make you think she's turned against Trucy, and at the end of the trial she feels awful for having helped Roger. Luckily, she's also gained a little self-confidence by that point so she can at least stand up to her sister.

Easy keep.

  • From case 6-4, we have yet another killer: Geiru Toneido for the fact she was snubbed by her master, by him giving the title of Uendo to her junior fellow disciple, and genuinely regrets what she's done in a rare subversion for killers. She wanted to live up to her late father and make him proud, but Teifu didn't know this and put her doing something she doesn't like because he wanted her to find her own calling away from rakugo storytelling. He had even prepared udon noodles (which Geiru used to kill Teifu) out of concern for her allergy and wanted to tell her the truth gently over something she liked. Upon learning this, Geiru breaks down and immediately regrets what she's done. She even got sympathy from the defense who ask Bucky to deliver some udon noodles to Geiru even after she tried to frame a 5 year old boy. The poor woman doesn't even have the big breasts she was flaunting, as it turns out they were just balloons she inflated and placed under her suspenders. She even has a soft spot for her dog who, let's admit it, is absolutely adorable.

Move to Jerkass Woobie portion of the page. Otherwise, it's a pretty easy keep.

  • Armie "Sarge" Buff is a pretty sad case. She's only 12 and her mother died in a fire similar to Apollo's dad. She's bound by a wheelchair, due to the trauma of losing her mother in her father, and only puts on a Drill Sergeant Nasty facade because that was what her mother was like, and her father was killed when trying to solve a clue on the Founder's Orb by a corrupt politician who wanted to give the orb to Justice Minister Inga. It's only thanks to Apollo's courage that she is able to get on the stand and testify against Paul Atishon, her father's killer and help convict him. You'll want to smile when she finally starts to walk again.

Easy keep.

  • Nahyuta Sadhmadhi qualifies in a similar vein to Edgeworth. The guy used to be a sweet kid if flashbacks are anything to go by and his jerkass attitude is a facade he's using to keep tyrannical Queen Ga'ran from executing his sister and mother. He's actually a member of the resistance group the Defiant Dragons and is secretly helping his defense attorney father Dhurke escape from the eyes of Ga'ran. Unfortunately he is forced to prosecute his own father knowing very well that by doing so is sentencing his foster brother and biological father to the gallows should he win. Turns out Dhurke was killed by Justice Minister Inga and the Dhurke that is getting prosecuted is his mother the previous queen, who is shot by a royal guard, meaning his only living relatives are Rayfa his sister and his foster brother. Then later on he gets accused of murder himself by Ga'ran and it takes Apollo's unyielding will to defeat Ga'ran and save his foster brother.
  • Rayfa, Rayfa, Rayfa, you poor thing! After she starts to doubt her mother and father, it turns out she's not related to either of them, and they are both horrible, horrible people but Ga'ran especially breaks her with her calling her useless when she's not able to perform the Divination Seance for her "father"'s murder, she'll be killed if Ga'ran finds her big brother has betrayed Ga'ran, she's had to witness her father's (granted he wasn't a saint, but she thought the guy was her father and he actually kept her letters to him in a secret safe showing that unlike his heartless wife, Inga at least cared about his daughter). When she finds out Dhurke is actually her father, you can tell her little heart snaps in two when she finds out he's been dead this whole time and her mother is shot by Ga'ran's henchman, the poor thing's just struggling to keep it together and it's great to have her on your side when you accuse Ga'ran of murder. She also defrosts like Franziska.

I'd move this to Iron Woobie as they do not show their vulnerable points until much later.

  • Sorin Sprocket, come on down! He's a sweet young man who has to live with Loss of Identity every morning of his life — an accident took his ability to retain memories, meaning anything he doesn't write down during the day is lost the minute he goes to sleep. Then Phoenix suggests that someone is tampering with his book — effectively rewriting his memories — and the realization that he might not be able to trust anything sends him into a panic attack and then unconsciousness. And did I mention all of this happens during a trial in which he's confessed to a crime he doesn't remember doing, all because — yes — it's written in his notebook that he did? Someone give this kid a hug.

I'd say keep it the way it is.

  • Speaking of the DLC case, we have yet again, the culprit Pierce Nichody. While he may have Dr. Jerk tendencies in court after he's exposed, you've got to understand he lost his fiancee due to Sorin driving the car and wanted Sorin to suffer the same pain he suffered at the loss of his older sister. Plus he was the surgeon for Selena Sprocket, and his failure to save her basically meant I Let Gwen Stacy Die. He's not a monster, but his envy of Sorin's happiness trapped him in his own "loop" from which he couldn't move on — until the verdict, when it's too late to undo the damage. He's also one of the few culprits to show genuine regret.

This is a Jerkass Woobie as mentioned, this character has Dr. Jerk moments, and is a villain.

Pending Writeups, Drafts Discussion Dates
MasterJoseph Shipping FrolaytiaXQwenthur of Heavy Object. Relationship Status: Seeking boyfriend-free girl
Shipping FrolaytiaXQwenthur of Heavy Object.
Oct 13th 2018 at 10:00:33 PM

#3

Any issue with me starting a discussion dates page?

Edited by MasterJoseph on Oct 13th 2018 at 10:00:54 AM

Woobie Slayer
ElfenLiedFan90 Moysey from Jakarta,Indonesia Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Moysey
Oct 14th 2018 at 12:11:07 AM

Hmmmm this is rather interesting. I do have some entries regarding Woobie but I'll think about them later. Can I join to participate?

Best Manchester United Manager Ever Had Current story that I made.
MasterJoseph Shipping FrolaytiaXQwenthur of Heavy Object. Relationship Status: Seeking boyfriend-free girl
Shipping FrolaytiaXQwenthur of Heavy Object.
Oct 14th 2018 at 12:23:11 AM

[up]Go on, but someone may need to consider working out an effort post template like CM and MB.

BTW, have you noticed my decision to volunteer for the creation of a discussion dates page?

Woobie Slayer
Klavice As if! from Pacific Canada Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
As if!
Oct 14th 2018 at 7:50:13 PM

Sure, go right ahead and make a discussion dates page. Since this is a full cleanup of The Woobie and its subtropes, we've gotta make sure Dr Wahwee from Mega Man 11 for example isn't listed under Jerkass Woobie if they are too vile or not enough people have played the game I'm thinking two weeks like CM and MB. Also I think I might do a template myself for this trope.

I'd also like to note that JW and IW will still be on the Woobie pages, just under their type of woobie. For example, Aqua would be moved to Iron Woobie section of the KH page, while someone like Terra might be more of a Jerkass Woobie.

Pending Writeups, Drafts Discussion Dates
MasterJoseph Shipping FrolaytiaXQwenthur of Heavy Object. Relationship Status: Seeking boyfriend-free girl
Shipping FrolaytiaXQwenthur of Heavy Object.
Oct 14th 2018 at 8:33:55 PM

AND.....IT'S UP!!!

Also, here's the Drafts Page.

Edited by MasterJoseph on Oct 15th 2018 at 3:23:31 AM

Woobie Slayer
MasterJoseph Shipping FrolaytiaXQwenthur of Heavy Object. Relationship Status: Seeking boyfriend-free girl
Shipping FrolaytiaXQwenthur of Heavy Object.
Oct 15th 2018 at 7:36:19 PM

Found these following examples, guess I'll purge them 1 by 1:

  • Jessica Jones (2015): Kilgrave after his backstory and personal issues are revealed. Though in this case the Jerkass part far outweighs the Woobie part. The impact is lessened somewhat when it's shown that he is perfectly willing to have his parents killed and cruelly manipulate his own father after they've shown what they truly feel about him, and the Woobie part largely fades once it's revealed that his version of the events isn't very accurate.
  • Berserk:
    • Jerkass Woobie: Griffith can be considered one of these while he is being tortured in Midland's dungeons and after the Band of the Hawks rescues him. (Up until the events of the Eclipse, it's hard not to want to hug him and/or punch him in the face. However, he emphatically isn't a woobie afterwards.)
    • The Woobie: Pre-Eclipse Griffith, after sleeping with Charlotte. Yes, he wasn't innocent and had serious Yandere overtones, but still. He got tortured for a year, horrifically, merely because he beat the king to the punch in deflowering her. Then he became a powerless cripple in And I Must Scream situation. Then the Eclipse happened, he saw his former friend happen there (and yet knew exactly what was going to happen but was powerless to stop him) and he was Mind Raped into betraying his former friend. Femto/Griffith, however...
  • A Nightmare on Elm Street: Freddy might have a sympathetic backstory, but his monstrous actions outweigh The Woobie side, however.
  • Dawn of the Planet of the Apes: A lot of people see Koba as this in the beginning, especially when he reminds Caesar that humans are the reason why he looks so disfigured after they experimented on and tortured him for years. It isn't until later on that he subverts a Freudian Excuse due to his selfishness and blatant hypocrisy (using "human work" to achieve his means, including against his fellow apes.)
  • Tomie: Tomie herself might count, if one keeps in mind that jerkass is an extreme understatement. If you consider the first chapter her origin story, she was once a normal but somewhat catty teenage girl who got murdered by her teacher and forcibly regenerated. Several of her actions early on in the story (i.e her alliance with her Mad Scientist teacher) indicate she's at least trying to find a cure for her condition, not to mention that she seems to feel a normal human level of pain every time she's mutilated despite her extreme regenerative abilities.
  • Jo Jos Bizarre Adventure Phantom Blood: Dio may be beyond redemption, but when you remember that his father ignored and beat him and his mother was worked to death, you realize it's not impossible to feel sorry for him.
Buddy Complex: Subverted with Bizon. Although something had to go seriously wrong for him with the Coupling experiments and there was a time where he was a legitimate nice guy to Hina, a lot of Bizon's malice is self-inflicted due to an intense hatred of Aoba, coupled with his view that since Hina is a Zogilian pilot, he's her boyfriend. Considering that Ancient Bizon is still mad about the fact that he never had a chance with Hina and he still wants Aoba dead even after 70+ years of contemplating, especially given that the whole reason for the Zogilian/Treaty war was possibly due to a relationship that never was, you just can't feel sorry for him anymore.
  • Hannibal Lecter: All of the serial killers, including Lecter himself. Dolarhyde was horrifically abused as a child, and Gumb has his own issues and problems; and then there is Lecter's own backstory explored in the last two books.(Eh, Mason and Valdis are Cms)

Edited by MasterJoseph on Oct 15th 2018 at 7:52:02 AM

Woobie Slayer
ElfenLiedFan90 Moysey from Jakarta,Indonesia Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Moysey
Oct 15th 2018 at 7:48:51 PM

Alright, let me start with one on one. First from the show that I covered in CM cleanup, Tenrou Sirius the Jaeger:

  • It's hard to not to sympathize with Yuliy, considering that he has an awful past where his clan got entirely decimated by the Vampires. After he kills Dr. Hanada and sees his brother turning himself into a Vampire, it impacts his decision whether killing all the Vampires was a good idea to begin with.
  • The daughter of Dr. Hanada, Saki, is this, as she suffered from Parental Neglect because her father ignored her for his own research. However, she had a bit of a glimmer of hope, because when her father finished his research, he made a promise that he would hang around with her. But sadly this didn't happen, as her father was turned into a Vampire and got killed by Yuliy.

This is one of the examples that I write back then and I'm going to give my thoughts on it:

  • Yuliy's a bit of an interesting case. Yeah, have to admit that he has a bit of a Dark and Troubled Past and the problem still haunts him to this day to the point that he became a Vampire Hunter and tried to avenge his dying clan thanks to Yevgraf and his Vampire's actions. Not even helping that Mikhail, his brother who ended up turning becoming a Vampire also tells Yuliy to stop avenging his clan which puts Yuliy in a harder position. So yeah, I'm torn on this one
  • Saki is a probably because she might seems happy but she suffers a bit of Parental Neglect. That and the fact that her father got turned into a Vampire in his last moments before fulfilling his promise so that he could hang out with Saki? Yeah...

So do you think these guys should stay or not? Personally I think they can stay.

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Oct 15th 2018 at 9:50:37 PM

Best Manchester United Manager Ever Had Current story that I made.
MasterJoseph Shipping FrolaytiaXQwenthur of Heavy Object. Relationship Status: Seeking boyfriend-free girl
Shipping FrolaytiaXQwenthur of Heavy Object.
Oct 15th 2018 at 7:51:03 PM

[up]How'bout we wait for an EP template.

Woobie Slayer
ElfenLiedFan90 Moysey from Jakarta,Indonesia Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Moysey
Oct 15th 2018 at 7:56:27 PM

Mmmmm yeah...EP could make things a bit easier

Best Manchester United Manager Ever Had Current story that I made.
MasterJoseph Shipping FrolaytiaXQwenthur of Heavy Object. Relationship Status: Seeking boyfriend-free girl
Shipping FrolaytiaXQwenthur of Heavy Object.
Oct 15th 2018 at 8:37:58 PM

@Klavice

Think you might take Woobie Species into account?

Woobie Slayer
chasemaddigan Playing the world's smallest violin.
Playing the world's smallest violin.
Oct 15th 2018 at 9:02:06 PM

Here's the full list of Woobie subtropes that I could find:

I feel that differentiating the different sub-tropes should be the first thing to address.

On a related, I'm surprised Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds is not a YMMV trope even though every other Woobie trope is.

[down] I'll see what I can do. I tend to be sporadic in my posts, but I do catch up on most of the clean-up threads.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Oct 15th 2018 at 1:34:01 PM

MasterJoseph Shipping FrolaytiaXQwenthur of Heavy Object. Relationship Status: Seeking boyfriend-free girl
Shipping FrolaytiaXQwenthur of Heavy Object.
Oct 15th 2018 at 9:03:28 PM

[up]Think you might help out more in this thread?

Woobie Slayer
AustinDR Smile and the whole world smiles. from Fresh and ready for life.
Smile and the whole world smiles.
Oct 15th 2018 at 9:59:02 PM

Well...this is interesting. As for a template, something I was thinking about was actually something like this:

Who is she (or he)?

Which also explains the work they originated from, as well as a bit of their backstory.

What is their predicament?

Explaining how they got into the situation they are in.

Sympathy standard

Obviously, how much sympathy is intended for the character in question? Does the work paint them in a tragic light?

Can They Defend Themselves

This would take the Iron Woobie trope into account.


For instance, there is actually one show I had in mind concerning the trope. The series in question is called Dropkick On My Devil or Jashin-chan Dropkick. The series concerns a college student named Yurine Hanazono, a gothic girl who dabbles in the dark arts. One day, she accidentally summons a lamia from Hell named Jashin. Since she doesn't know the spell to send Jashin back, Jashin spends all of her time and energy into trying to kill Yurine only to be bludgeoned and tortured by Yurine.

For starters, Jashin herself would be a Jerkass Woobie. There are moments where her punishment would be undeserved, but the reason as to why Jashin wouldn't count is that besides trying to end Yurine, she bullies other characters, treats her best friend like dirt, is selfish, etc.

As for who I feel could meet the criteria going by the template would be Pekola and Medusa.

Who is she?

Pekola is an angel from Heaven on a mission to eradicate demons and witches. She was also the superior of another angel by the name of Poporon.

What is her predicament?

Well...that would've been the case had she not have lost her halo. Losing her halo automatically makes Pekola as powerless and weak as a human. Since then, Pekola had lived in a cardboard box.

Her life in the anime is pretty much not good. For one, she is always facing bad luck in nearly every episode. For instance, in a Christmas episode, Pekola scraps for some bread crusts and milk to eat for that night. As you would've guessed, Jashin arrives and immediately tries to take the crusts for herself. Despite the fact that she was happily eating a full plate of curry.

Or in another episode, Pekola struggles with one of her jobs, and just when she receives her payment for it, she finds her cardboard box home destroyed by an intoxicated Jashin.

In one of the more worst moments in her life, Pekola is reunited with her apprentice the aforementioned Poporon. Just when things were seemingly looking up for her, Poporon pulls out a rocket launcher and tries to kill her, revealing that she was wanting to ensure that she never returned to Heaven so that Poporon could assume her position. Even after she is stranded on Earth much like Pekola, Poporon blows Pekola's offer to work together to survive.

In the tenth episode of the anime, Pekola accidentally drops her earnings into a charity box. While she is initially comforted by the idea that the money would be going to help needy children, she discovers that the charity donations were a scam.

Sympathy standard

Pretty much, Pekola's life is the very definition of bad luck. In the anime, she is often given food by Yurine every now and then. Now, while Pekola often has the habit of denying the food that Yurine gave her, she isn't doing it because she was a Jerkass. Part of her initial refusal is because she was made to believe that demons and witches were nothing but evil, and thus was naturally distrustful of the devil girls and Yurine at first. By the end of the series, this issue is pretty much nonexistent, and you could even make the claim that Pekola eventually saw the girls as her friends.

Can she defend herself?

No. With her halo, she is unbelievably weak. While she would like to claim that she is still stronger than a human, she can hardly lift large objects, and she was especially vulnerable when Poporon arrived to finish her off.

As for Medusa....

Who is she?

Medusa is Jashin's closest friend. And her personal ATM (at the moment) because she would dote on Jashin by giving her money to spend for her luxuries.

What is her predicament?

Well, her life as a whole is one. As a gorgon, she has the ability to turn people into stone. However, rather than the stereotypical snake hair, Medusa can turn people into stone because when people look at her, they are transformed due to her cuteness. However, these instances are largely unintentional on Medusa's part. As such, she wears a bag over her head.

As for anything else, there is her "friend" Jashin. Medusa's Fatal Flaw is that despite of being a demon, she is a Nice Girl. Because of this, she is easily manipulated by Jashin. When she isn't buying Jashin objects that she intends to kill Yurine with, Jashin would try to shift the blame of her failed attempts onto Medusa. Jashin had done this for thousands of years. If she's bullying a lesser demon? She would shift the blame onto Medusa. Or when Jashin was trapped in a hole? Medusa saves her...only for Jashin to leave her in it.

Really, her relationship with Jashin in itself is tragic in some fashions. In one episode, when Yurine was suggesting that Medusa wane herself from spoiling Jashin, Jashin gets mad at her and yells at her causing Medusa to run a way crying. While things between the two are rekindled, there are a few more moments like this.

In another episode, Jashin becomes convinced that Medusa had some secret admirer and angrily confronts Medusa on it, calling her horrible names. But it is revealed that Jashin had actually asked Medusa for money, but to keep it a secret from Yurine. Like before, she runs off crying her eyes out. There's even an episode where Medusa is practically traumatized by seeing Jashin's lifeless corpse...only for the whole thing to be revealed as a cruel joke by Jashin (who merely molted).

Sympathy standard

She was born as a gorgon, meaning that regardless of whether she wants to admit it or not, she cannot go out, because that would put others at the risk of getting turned to stone. As a nice girl, she is a pushover who is easily exploitable. She has a friend that casually admits that she views her as her personal money machine. While Jashin does prove to actually love Medusa in her own way, these moments tend to be overshadowed by how she treats Medusa.

Can she defend herself?

In a way, yes. Since she is a gorgon after all, she can defend herself. However, what keeps her from going towards being an iron woobie is that she is good-natured and would choose not to hurt anyone if she could help it.

Conclusion

Overall, I feel that both could pass as being Woobies. That is if everyone is fine with my idea of a template.

Edited by AustinDR on Oct 16th 2018 at 7:48:45 AM

Why you little-!
ElfenLiedFan90 Moysey from Jakarta,Indonesia Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Moysey
Oct 15th 2018 at 10:32:39 PM

Template looks great Austin... I think I will try to use it in the future.

Best Manchester United Manager Ever Had Current story that I made.
Klavice As if! from Pacific Canada Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
As if!
Oct 16th 2018 at 12:20:02 AM

Wow, you guys work fast.

I have reserved Fi M Season 9 for Woobies as well as the untitled AA game, and Warrior Cats since I'm the only one who read past book 6.

Also given that Complete Monsters cannot qualify for this trope I'm gonna axe Scourge from Jerkass Woobie as he is far too cruel to even count as a Jerkass Woobie. (That cat alone murders the series' Big Bad, the protagonist of the first series, and a huge amount of cats and dogs. The manga that explains his rise to power even states his actions are not mitigated by what happened in the book. Literally it's just that he was bullied so he decided to become a mafia-esque Serial Killer. Brokenstar should go too as he is similar to Scourge but gets kittens involved with his Spartan style Training from Hell (most of the time said kittens die due to being too "weak") if THAT wasn't enough especially for a book intended for younger readers like Harry Potter (though it does have plenty of adult themes in it that make it about as child friendly as Watership Down) he causes his own mother to be exiled from the Clan on account of murdering her mother's next litter of kittens causing them to attempt to kill her on command if they find her on their border). Damn. I do recommend this series despite the questionable quality after about Series 2 or 3 because the EU explains a lot that wasn't in the original books and it's a pretty fun read given how Anyone Can Die.

Let's take a crack at the Jerkass Woobie template I made through Austin's woobie template.

Who is he?

Warrior Cats is a What Do You Mean, It's for Kids? book series that features cats, death, sexual themes, and fantastic racism. With the rule of Anyone Can Die, this series attracts a lot of Woobie types. Some are helpless and cannot defend themselves but for the most part most are Iron Woobie or Jerkass Woobie like this candidate I am proposing namely Breezepelt of WindClan. He is a major antagonist and Rival Turned Evil of the third and fourth arcs called The Power of Three and Omen of the Stars. Breezepelt was born to Crowfeather, also a potential candidate for Jerkass Woobie dom and his reluctant mate Nightcloud. WindClan is possibly one of the biggest examples of a group of characters taking a level in Jerkass in novel history without crossing the MEH. Without giving too much away, Breezy tried to defect to the Big Bad Tigerstar's cats known as the Place of No Stars or Dark Forest, basically kitty hell. As Breezepelt trains with the Dark Forest cats he begins to plot his revenge against his half-siblings born out of a one-night stand (this happens a lot) one of which is The Medic and blind of ThunderClan and the other is his brother. The third sibling who revealed all of this was Put on a Bus by getting trapped in a endless labyrinth.

What is their predicament?

Breezepelt was born to a loveless marriage between Nightcloud and Crowfeather after Crowfeather had lost both his former mates and felt incredibly suicidal, he had a reluctant kitten with his new mate and they became Breezepelt. In the beginning Breezepelt when he was young was closer to an Iron Woobie given he was grumpy but had his reasons. For one his own father has Parental Neglect AND Parental Favoritism when it comes him vs his other kits (granted he didn't know they were his, but the fact Breezy was waiting for his father to praise him, and he didn't just adds more pity). So basically Breezepelt is only given love by his Clan Leader, eventual mate, and mother (all of whom are jerks to a point) along with his grandmother before she died offscreen. His Daddy Issues don't stop there. Oh no... When Hollyleaf (his half sister that disappeared) revealed that Jayfeather, Lionblaze, and herself were the children of Leafpool (ThunderClan's medicine cat and the mother of Breezepelt's half siblings) and Crowfeather, what little respect Breezepelt had went down the litterbox. Everyone started to hate him within his clan causing him to think Then Let Me Be Evil and joins the Big Bad army.

Sympathy standard for Jerks?

Most jerks are pitiable, but not misguided like Hawkfrost and Tigerstar (son and father). However, Breezepelt started off sympathetic as hell and ended up despite trying to cross the MEH, coming off as a misguided and tortured soul. Not only that but the poor guy was nearly driven away from his Clan for fighting on the Dark Forest side by his own jerkass of a dad. Compared to Crowfeather though, Breezepelt is written to be far more sympathetic. His parents hate each other and are abusive and he was cruelly mistreated way worse than normal bullying.

Are they too vile to qualify? While Breezy attempted to cross the MEH by attempting to murder his blind half brother and a pregnant hostage, he still does have a legit Heel–Face Turn by the end and realizes the error of his ways. The fact that this one secret that was told about him being born to a loveless marriage far outweighs his crimes. He also pets the dog by mating the broken Heathertail who was rejected by his own half brother for trying to play in the tunnels as warrior apprentices. I would say a pass.

Edited by Klavice on Oct 16th 2018 at 1:05:49 AM

Pending Writeups, Drafts Discussion Dates
MasterJoseph Shipping FrolaytiaXQwenthur of Heavy Object. Relationship Status: Seeking boyfriend-free girl
Shipping FrolaytiaXQwenthur of Heavy Object.
Oct 16th 2018 at 12:57:09 AM

[up]You might as well start a post for pending writeups, like ACW for CM and Mr. 4 for MB.

I'd advise using a URL shortener.

Woobie Slayer
Klavice As if! from Pacific Canada Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
As if!
Oct 16th 2018 at 1:07:14 AM

Master Joseph: Castlevania Netflix Trio, High School Dx D: Vali

Klavice: Hinoka (Fire Emblem Fates)

Overlord_2018: Shuria

Edited by Klavice on Jan 30th 2019 at 1:43:21 AM

Pending Writeups, Drafts Discussion Dates
AustinDR Smile and the whole world smiles. from Fresh and ready for life.
Smile and the whole world smiles.
Oct 16th 2018 at 5:53:20 AM

Here's one more on my end:

What is the work?

When the Wind Blows is a 1982 graphic novel by British author Raymond Briggs who had also made The Snowman. The graphic novel received an animated film adaptation that was released in 1986. When The Wind Blows is about an elderly couple named the Bloggs. When word gets out that international tensions could lead to full-break of war, the two — James and Hilda respectively — don't take much alarm having lived through two world wars, so they feel that this one would be a piece of cake. Sadly, they failed to realize the powers of nuclear war.

What are their predicament?

Upon learning that war could break out in three days, James takes the initiative to prepare for it. Having bought a Protect and Survive pamphlet, James makes a crude bomb shelter out of a fallen door, and places it beside the wall. Obviously, there are many flaws with the pamphlet such as saying that they should paint the windows white (to apparently block the radiation), to having to get into bags before the missile drops. Hilda herself isn't as concerned, going about her daily routine. Soon, the missile drops, and it demolishes the town of Sussex, killing everything within reach. Miraculously, James and Hilda make it out alive, but shaken a bit from the bomb. But as the film progresses, their problems are far from over.

As they were trying to rebuild their home and go about their daily lives, the two start developing symptoms pertaining to radiation sickness. Hilda's jaws start to bleed, she has sick spells of vomiting, she starts to develop spots on her legs. James tries to stay strong for the two of them, seeing to it that they had water. So he collected rain water to last for a couple weeks...except the rainwater would be heavily contaminated by radiation. They quickly run out of food (some of their stock having been burned to a crisp by the blast), and their health worsened to where James could hardly walk straight, and he and his wife were becoming spitting images of skeletons. Despite all this, they still had faith that their government would save them, not realizing the likelihood that the government was eradicated in the blast, or if theoretically there was still a running government, they would be concerned with the cities first before considering going to the countryside.

Hilda's hair starts to fall out, and she suggests that she and James go back into the shelter to pray. At this point, they knew they were dying, so they were wanting to go somewhere safe to await the end.

Can they defend themselves?

From nuclear fall out caused by a bomb getting dropped? Hell no. James himself believes he could provide for the two of them, but all of his efforts fail miserably. In the end, he is broken, realizing the gravity of the situation. So no Iron Woobie there.

Sympathy Standard (for jerks)

They are the only two characters in the film. It is mentioned that they had a son, but he doesn't physically appear, nor does he play a major role in the film. Even though the two have moments of bickering with each other, it is made clear that they deeply care for each other, if being married for years was any indication. While James does get hot with Hilda when he learns that it would be a few minutes for the bomb to drop, he is only doing that because he thought his wife wasn't taking the situation seriously.

And if you feel that they were stupid for not taking the idea of a nuclear holocaust seriously, keep in mind, that they both survived the world wars which included weapons such as mustard gas or tanks. They simply did not comprehend what nuclear war was, nor did they know anything about fallout, radiation sickness. The point that the film is making is that much like with other people, they had a blind faith in their government, and why shouldn't they? They believe that they owe their livelihood to the government for helping them through rough times. The film itself is a warning on the threats nuclear war could wage on nations if they were to hypothetically happen. Nuclear war effects everyone, even those who wouldn't hurt a fly would die indiscriminately.

Edited by AustinDR on Oct 16th 2018 at 11:33:46 AM

Why you little-!
Oct 16th 2018 at 5:54:39 AM

Woobie.Comic Books' Tony Stark entry is stupidly long and has a lot of parts that are nattery or make other heroes look bad.

"* Poor Tony Stark's never-ending train of life-suckitude is probably second only to that of Spider-Man, especially before the Modern Age, living through kidnapping, torture, heart problems, evil girlfriends, murderous ex-friends, alcoholism, brainwashing, terrible luck, and dozens of plots to make his life a living hell that would put Daredevil's iconic torment by the Kingpin to shame, all sprinkled with Survivor's Guilt. Oh, and once he was mind-controlled by Kang and forced to murder a whole bunch of innocent people and some Avengers teammates. And later he was mind-controlled and forced to blow up a commercial jet full of about 200 innocent people.

It gets worse: Remember, Tony's a genius, so he knows the dangers of alcohol poisoning. You know what motivated him to drink? He hated himself that much he wanted to die, and tried to kill himself with booze. And, to make life worse, after one drink during the apparent end of the world during The Serpent's invasion, where he gave up everything he could to make Odin see that humanity wasn't worthless, he's now being blackmailed by the Mandarin-controlled American government, they've somehow managed to twist one drink during the end of the world into permission for them to attach a power limiter to Iron Man which can shut off his powers (when the General doing so in question deserted during fear itself...). Due to this, he's had to watch his best friend die just a few feet away from him.

He also rarely, if ever, gets any real support from his "family" for any of the crap he goes through; even Steve Rogers, his best friend, has all but abandoned him at some of the worst parts of his life. The general consensus seems to be that he needs to just get over it. When he was homeless for a while and nearly died, they were nowhere to be found. He was canonically suicidal — as mentioned above, the alcoholism was a prolonged attempt at suicide, and not a very subtle one at that — and not a single one of them noticed. They only finally confronted him about his drinking when it started inconveniencing them. He's dragged himself up from rock bottom by pure willpower countless times, and the only reaction he ever gets is "Well, it's about damn time." And then they wonder why he's such a mess and why he tends to spiral into self-destructive behaviour.

And after all of that trauma and pain, he never stops trying to be a good person. He's made a lot of mistakes, but he's always done what he thought was right regardless of what it might cost him personally. Which has also been the root cause of many of his screw-ups. Most people would have thrown in the towel by this point, but Tony keeps trying. The closest he gets to getting credit for this is when people stop giving him shit for the times he has screwed up. And unlike Peter Parker, Tony gets zero sympathy, possibly because he's rich, so clearly he's got it made.

  • It doesn't get much better for his Ultimate Marvel counterpart, who's got a lot of the same problems, but also lives in perpetual agony because of his mutant nature.
  • Tony may qualify as a Jerkass Woobie. While he's been put through an extraordinary amount of hardship, he's done some pretty horrible things such as putting his friends in a prison camp during Civil War and hiring supervillains to track Them down. This just plays into his character as someone who is well-intentioned but massively fucked up.
  • Even Tony's potential Jerkass Woobie nature manages to get played into his being a straight up Woobie — for example, Tony (long after becoming Iron Man) actually fires a hardworking employee on stage during a Stark International Keynote as a function of the app said employee wrote purely (and admittedly) to impress a girl he wanted to sleep with... which we learn when Tony, having lost everything (again) is putting together a new company with new goals and needs to hire that same former employee — and somehow it is Tony we want to comfort and give a hug during the situation."

The Protomen enhanced my life.
ElfenLiedFan90 Moysey from Jakarta,Indonesia Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Moysey
Oct 16th 2018 at 6:19:20 AM

Btw sure on your candidates Austin. Also, for Tony... Hmmmm maybe we could either condense, cut or move him on other category.

Best Manchester United Manager Ever Had Current story that I made.
Bullman Relationship Status: Abstaining
Oct 16th 2018 at 7:02:56 AM

Hi mind if I join. If not yeah to the candidates so far.

Edit: Also found this under Lord Drakkon, who just got approved as a CM so axed it.

  • Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds: Drakkon's timeline differed greatly from the main Tommy's. Confused and afraid following the spell of the Sword of Darkness being broken, Rita used this time of vulnerability to act like a Parental Substitute and convinced him to fight by her side willingly and to not want power for the sake of power, but to make sure he never has to endure something like that again. Now of course, he's out conquering worlds in the multiverse.
    • Shattered Grid #1 takes this Up to Eleven. Drakkon gains godlike powers. What does he do with them? Destroy the multiverse and create an ideal world for him. What does that entail? Him having parents (who are Rita and Zordon), and being beloved and idolized by the denizens of this world as a hero who cares for his people. He wants a life like all the other Tommy Olivers in the Multiverse.

Edited by Bullman on Oct 16th 2018 at 7:17:29 AM

MasterJoseph Shipping FrolaytiaXQwenthur of Heavy Object. Relationship Status: Seeking boyfriend-free girl
Shipping FrolaytiaXQwenthur of Heavy Object.
Oct 16th 2018 at 10:19:13 AM

I've got a question for you people.

How many woobies are needed for a separate page?

Woobie Slayer
chasemaddigan Playing the world's smallest violin.
Playing the world's smallest violin.
Oct 16th 2018 at 11:09:12 AM

Well, the Complete Monster thread typically makes a new sub-page when a franchise has about eight examples. So, I think that's a good number to work with in regards to making sub-pages.


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