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The Man Who Shot Libery Valance - alternative interpretation

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RappaR Since: Oct, 2016
#1: Aug 27th 2018 at 3:56:38 PM

And meta-example one. What jarred me while watching this movie, was that Tom was whole movie sitting back and just smiling, while people where being robbed and killed. I understand the rest of the folks, since they were just scaried and didn't know how to fight. He was different - he had capabilities to kill Valance, but he lacked will. The whole plot could ended a lot earlier, even before arrival of Rance, if he would just stand and fight. Liberty Valance was just an evil. Nothing more - no backstory, no motivation. But Tom was the real villan of the movie - a man, who decided to not fight. Why meta-example? John Wayne avoided draft and never served, even if he could. James Stewart on the other hand - couldn't. He was rejected because of age and weight, yet he tried again and again, until he became bomber pilot and general. Film was directed by Ford, who also served and even if he was on friendly terms with Wayne, he expostulated it to him numerous times. So the big bad of the movie isn't Liberty Vance - just some symbol of III Reich, nazis etc. It is Tom - a guy, who doesn't stand up against evil. And truly, like in-story, Rance is the Hero. Because he refuses to let evil has his ways.

Edited by RappaR on Aug 27th 2018 at 3:56:29 AM

jamespolk Since: Aug, 2012
#2: Aug 28th 2018 at 7:39:21 PM

You're not going to get very many responses to this because this topic is not about superheroes.

But I can't agree with your interpretation. Tom kills Valance and doesn't take any credit for it. He's a noble figure. Rance isn't a bad man but he's at least somewhat *weaker* than Tom, as he is content to reap the benefits of something he didn't do.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#3: Aug 28th 2018 at 10:07:43 PM

Been a long while since I saw the movie, but as I recall, Liberty Valance is shown as being afraid (or at least wary) of John Wayne's character, and is unlikely to try starting something with him the way he did with James Stewart's character. Per both standard self-defense laws and the old "Code of the West", Wayne's character can't draw his gun on Valance unless Valance draws his first, or gives every indication he's about to.

RappaR Since: Oct, 2016
#4: Aug 29th 2018 at 2:07:02 AM

[quote]But I can't agree with your interpretation. Tom kills Valance and doesn't take any credit for it. He's a noble figure. Rance isn't a bad man but he's at least somewhat *weaker* than Tom, as he is content to reap the benefits of something he didn't do. [/quote] It was Rance, who stood up and it was Rance, who risked his life and it was Rance, who got shot. Tom was hiding in shadow, safe. Rance wasn't content with it, it wasn't for him just some glory houndning, but he did, because it was necessary for the state. It is shown in the movie.

[quote]Been a long while since I saw the movie, but as I recall, Liberty Valance is shown as being afraid (or at least wary) of John Wayne's character, and is unlikely to try starting something with him the way he did with James Stewart's character. Per both standard self-defense laws and the old "Code of the West", Wayne's character can't draw his gun on Valance unless Valance draws his first, or gives every indication he's about to.

[/quote] Liberty Valance gave an ultimate to Rance - get out of the town or face me in duel. If he could say something like it, why Tom didn't say exactly the same to Liberty?

Edited by RappaR on Aug 29th 2018 at 2:08:31 AM

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#5: Aug 29th 2018 at 11:43:57 AM

The villain can give a "leave or die" ultimatum because he's the villain. One of the good guys doing that is a bit different.

Plus (and again, been a while since I saw the movie, so my memory's fuzzy) but wasn't Tom some sort of rancher or someone else who spends a lot of time out of town? Realistically, he can only be a check on Valance's behavior on those occasions when they both happen to be in town at the same time.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#6: Aug 29th 2018 at 7:26:53 PM

There's a bit more going on than your theory notices, though you should put your theory up on the YMMV.

  • Tom isn't the Sheriff of the town and it isn't his duty or authority to bring Liberty Vallance to justice. He's just a private citizen who is tough as hell and scares the man.

  • There's a general sense of the Old West versus the New West with Tom being from an age when people looked after themselves (i.e. just a few years prior). He's nonplussed by Ransom talking about the law, rules, and so on because he assumes men should TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES.

  • Tom blames Ransom for the fact he constantly is antagonizing Liberty Valance without being able to back it up with his fists or a gun. Hence, he's outside the traditional code of the West, so to speak.

  • Liberty Valance is a relatively minor criminal until he's hired as a mercenary by the rancher barons. His crime spree has escalated beyond being the town bully and becomes a full on monster because he's been paid to and now has power behind him. He's a murderer as well as a thief but this is a recent development. Most people folded like a deck of cards before Ransom or scared him off.

  • Tom intervenes not just to protect Ransom but also Ransom's black friend, also Tom's, who would have definitely gotten killed in the aftermath.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 29th 2018 at 7:28:20 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
RappaR Since: Oct, 2016
#7: Aug 31st 2018 at 7:12:00 AM

[quote]The villain can give a "leave or die" ultimatum because he's the villain. One of the good guys doing that is a bit different.[/quote] Good guy can give ultimatum - threaten somebody one more time and I will go after you. [quote]There's a general sense of the Old West versus the New West with Tom being from an age when people looked after themselves (i.e. just a few years prior). He's nonplussed by Ransom talking about the law, rules, and so on because he assumes men should TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES. [/quote] Exactly! And this kind of attitude isn't attitude of heroes, it is attitude of people who dies alone and are forgotten by a public. James Stewart and John Ford both served and they didn't say something like Poland should take care of themselves. Both they bitter about John's Wayne stay(he also treated it like his greatest shame later in his life). [quote] Liberty Valance is a relatively minor criminal until he's hired as a mercenary by the rancher barons. His crime spree has escalated beyond being the town bully and becomes a full on monster because he's been paid to and now has power behind him. He's a murderer as well as a thief but this is a recent development. Most people folded like a deck of cards before Ransom or scared him off. [/quote] He also was a robber and somebody, who maimed someone to near deathlike state. [quote]Tom isn't the Sheriff of the town and it isn't his duty or authority to bring Liberty Vallance to justice. He's just a private citizen who is tough as hell and scares the man. [/quote] But sheriff doesn't have behind him real power, so as a private citizen he should backs him to help law. Yes - it isn't his duty. Ransom also didn't have a duty to first get beaten in the beginning, and then get shot in his stance. He chose it. Because he thought it was a right choice to do.

Edited by RappaR on Aug 31st 2018 at 7:19:05 AM

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#8: Aug 31st 2018 at 10:39:59 AM

You are willfully ignoring the point that both characters were needed to stop Valance. That's like, a key part of the whole message.

They represent two different and necessary parts of America in general and the west in specific.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#9: Aug 31st 2018 at 4:40:33 PM

I think you're trying to read a little too much subtext into the story that's mostly maintext. Especially regarding John Wayne's lack of service.

But in simpler terms:

If Ransom went out there as his legend says, Liberty would have killed him.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
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