Ahh. Understandable, but that's too bad. I'm really liking it. It is hard to figure out what's a bug at first, whether it's supposed to be based on position or just waiting. But now that I've got most of the coins and have a sense of the place, it's not so bad. Pretty compact, has a cool look. Very ambitious for this kind of game, I'll say that. But I've liked the quests so far, the jockeying for favour with literal demons, the almost over-the-top cartoonish version of hell (I know, not actually the Hells or even the Pathfinder equivalent, the Abyss, but even so) as a tourist destination, the mix of monsters and the mundane. It's all very Halloween. And as planar cities go, it's... pleasantly familiar. Not totally original, but a good rendition of what it is. So I enjoy it.
I don't want to come across as defending the game too much. The need for constant updates and hotfixes post-launch has gotten a bit too normalized, along with ironclad deadlines and the resulting crunch. Still. This is very much part of my CRPG experience. Like, almost every game in the genre has been at least this buggy for me when it came out, including most of my favourites. I soldiered through them back then, and ridiculous as it sounds, it's kind of a nostalgic feeling now.
Of course I can appreciate how frustrating it must be for normal people. Hopefully they keep up the pace with the patches.
Edited by Unsung on Sep 11th 2021 at 11:20:14 AM
Whatever praise I'd feel inclined to give for the city's looks is immediately burrowed by how annoying it is to traverse. Like, I get having an artistic vision. But no. The cost wasn't worth it. Heck I only got like 4 coins and I dont even know where the F I'm supposed to find the other ones (Where's the one for the fleshmarket gate? Or the upper plaza?).
And the upper city in particular is painful for how incredibly, tediously slow the bridges are at rotating. And this is made even worse by the map having 0 useful info so you're constantly running back and forth to find locations.
My biggest grievance with the game, between this and the crusade mode, is how little respect the game has for the player's time. Its like if there's a choice between efficient and tedious, each time the devs went for Tedious.
I do wanna say the writing is fine, for the most part. Like I dont mind the actual quests. But going around the Abyss is so annoying.
Edited by Ghilz on Sep 11th 2021 at 10:16:39 AM
Does sound annoying... I can't really say it's felt that way for me. I just keep moving forward, climbing up walls, going through portals. I did head back to the Nexus when I seemed to hit a dead end at one point. Have you found the Harem and Rapture of Rupture? Those seemed to be the main things that you can access in the Upper City when you first get there. Most of it seems to be left open for the companion quests I've started getting. You don't get them all at once, I seem to get more popping up as I've gone back and started doing some of the quests in the previous areas.
They really should have better map pins, though.
Edited by Unsung on Sep 11th 2021 at 11:21:27 AM
The rapture place is one of the few on the map. I lost 15 minutes finding the mansion for Arushalae's quest coz that one ISN'T on the map, and the entrance to the mansion is a portal, not a door, so it looks like every other portal on the map.
Doesn't help that Aru doesn't want to be brought in the Brothel, which is my only coin in upper town so far, so I had to go to the tavern in low town and trek my way up manually from there.
Edited by Ghilz on Sep 11th 2021 at 10:23:09 AM
They should also put a giant pop up saying "YOUR CAMERA CONTROLS THE MOVEMENT OF THE MAP" coz I lost 5 minutes reloading wondering why I platform a knew had moved before wasn't moving now. Till someone on a discord im on mentioned it. Like in some cases you need to angle the camera so your view is blocked before the buildings move? It's stupid design.
Edited by Ghilz on Sep 11th 2021 at 10:26:18 AM
Playing around it seems to be based on the angle of the camera.
I suspect, don't quote me on this, the idea was to have the "shape" of the map be tied to the angle of the camera. Like have building shrink/move as you rotate in sync to the rotation. But they either bugged that, or couldn't get it working, so what instead happened is the animation for the buildings moving/changing trigger based on specific camera angle.
^^^I never turned tutorials off even when they started to repeat pop up <_<
Anyway, I do find Alushynyrra to be confusing, but it doesn't seem that bad to me besides that it has locations you need dimension door to access which makes my secret finding paranoia rise x'D
I do wonder if my writing tastes are bad though because I think source material of this crpg is one of the best written tabletop modules plot wise(even with few problems) but then again tabletop module and crpg is different thing writing goals and expectation wise and crpg version does have lot of writing problems like the intro and Galfrey character assassination
Incoherent rage screaming
Okay thanks for the info though. But seriously, wtf. The lady in the brothel tells you this when she could just say "They are in the room there".
Edited by Ghilz on Sep 12th 2021 at 11:17:56 AM
Yeah, that's another thing that sort of makes it feel like the whole Ten Thousand Delights is meant to be a lot bigger than the cramped top floor we have access to. Feels rushed.
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Is that last bit (the character assassination) a spoiler at all? Post-Alushinyrra? If so... careful please
Edited by Unsung on Sep 12th 2021 at 12:24:57 PM
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Ahh. That. Is that enough to count as character assassination? What was she like in the tabletop version?
...Though it probably helps if, like in my case, she seemed to mostly think I was doing a good job and was taking over specifically for the duration of the mission to the Abyss. Which I was in favour of, too. And my character was always kind of weirded out that I was just given this army and then city to run as I saw fit. I guess if I'd given more kickback I could've seen another side of her.
Honestly, I don't know. Ruler for a hundred years and all that. Whatever her original intentions, I wouldn't be inclined to trust her totally. I didn't tell her about the Lexicon.
Edited by Unsung on Sep 13th 2021 at 12:04:13 PM
...So, I just got Pathfinder: Kingmaker off on the Epic Store, thanks for the discount, mein Freund.
I've never played a Pathfinder game before and while I have experience with 3.5 D&D (Neverwinter Nights and KOTOR), which Pathfinder is supposed to be based on, I heard that Pathfinder was supposed to be different in some ways. Is there supposed to be a steep learning curve, gameplay-wise?
I do have a lot of source books in my Google Drive so I think I can read up on anything that the game tries to talk about though that does make me curious on how much you need to be familiar with the setting to play this game without major problems in following things along.
Thinking about the first character I'm going to try has me interested in atheism in Pathfinder, as the first few germs of a concept had me go "...you know, it wouldn't be too far out and kinda interesting to play this character as an atheist/misotheist, the sort of person whose base and down-to-earth (probably not the right word for it, it's an attitude more focused on the here and now, the temporary and visible, the things you can have in your hands) attitude towards 'higher' and 'grand' causes is pretty dismissive, apathetic, and somewhat cynical, including the holy ones". I heard there was supposed to be a "Consoler of Atheists"?
...There isn't a "Wall of the Faithless", correct?
Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.Not AFAIK.
I will warn that in both game, the religion your character follows (if any) comes up like 0 times. It's entirely a thing you pick to fill a slot on your character sheet.
You can't even really play as an atheist since gods are kind of a fact. Not believing they exist is sort of like not believing rain exists. Or being an anti-vaxxer. You chose to not being a worshipper of any of them, for sure but like I said the game doesn't react to that (nor does it react really if you ARE beholden to a specific god, except maybe for one specific exception but that might be my memory). But seeing as one of your party member is literally a goddess' right hand angel...
EDIT: Besides the alignment related dialogue, it's probably my biggest quibble about the writing is now a non-entity your character is. Their class and background are never referenced or mentioned. Your race might a few time. Your Mythic path in the 2nd game comes up. But otherwise nothing that defines your character is ever a shaping force in dialogue. You are Hero McProtag and that's all that matters about your character.
Edited by Ghilz on Sep 13th 2021 at 3:31:25 AM
Hmmm. I thought the first game did have more responses to your deity of choice. The second game certainly does. Maybe it's only specific gods? I've had probably a dozen dialogue options as a follower of Desna, and in the second run I haven't really put much time into, there've been a few people who were actually impressed to meet a fellow follower of Abadar. But yeah, it's kind of spotty what Kingmaker will and won't respond to in terms of your class and race. It's mostly concerned with alignment.
Atheism might come up, though. I'm not sure, actually. You won't be alone in your atheism, at least, with Valerie in the party. It also seems like something Harrim might talk about, as someone who talks about in-universe theology a fair amount. Ekundayo wouldn't necessarily talk about it much, but I do wonder if he'd have a reaction to it, being fairly religious, disliking Harrim's blasphemous remarks when it comes to Torag.
No Wall of the Faithless. Pharasma still judges atheists, but seems to reward and punish them fairly.
Edited by Unsung on Sep 13th 2021 at 5:12:17 AM

Speaking of Gold dragon, it's apparently super bugged. People reporting that respeccing breaks after you get it. And also items no longer give out attribute bonuses.
So I'm really hating the Abyss? The map is fucking awful. Like, nigh-unplayable. Whoever came up with the moving buildings (triggered by rotating the camera no less!) deserves to be banned from making video games. The map is SUPER annoying to navigate. Half the locations aren't marked on the area map either. What portal goes where has to be committed to memory coz the map sure as fuck won't note it down. Fast travel is locked behind tokens.
The only upside is there's no crusade.
Edited by Ghilz on Sep 11th 2021 at 9:49:22 AM