“A D score means some people liked it, right?”
Some, but it’s a rather bad rating. Here’s some other stuff that’s fallen in that range: https://www.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/comments/wbwz44/drange_movies_cinemascore/
— some seem like a result of puzzling audiences or horror being marked low, others are just bad.
Only 22 films have ever got an F rating.
Certainly, just that, in theory, since they're somewhat similar, Joker 2 could also fall under there. Since fans of the original, critics, general audiences and the Misaimed Fandom all seem mixed-negative about this film, I doubt it's an American Pyscho situation.
Edited by king15 on Oct 9th 2024 at 1:37:18 PM
I never imagined a movie that would make me think the Joker was done dirty.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.![]()
But then this year had a lot of unprecedented shit going down, so at this point it feels par for the course.
I'm not afraid to admit it: she has bangers. Songs that were popular because they were that good. She's one of the few people attached to this mess that I can see rebounding the easiest.
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It helps that pretty much the only thing being unanimously praised are Gaga and Phoenix's acting (and while the music numbers are divisive, I believe their singing has been praised as well, not that that's a surprise for either of them).
And The Penguin.
Edited by king15 on Oct 9th 2024 at 2:00:00 PM
So fuck it, how do you guys imagine a conflict with Arthur Fleck Joker and Batman would go?
Like pretend comic book shit happened here, Arthur got frozen by Mr. Freeze's dad who also is a cryonics guy, and wakes up to a Gotham with Batman. Who has been in his career for three years at this point.
"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"I think that'd be actually a genuinely interesting story to have this Joker vs. the Pattinson one.
Because I can totally believe Arthur Fleck is confused why Batman would be doing this EXCEPT to get famous.
If I was doing an alternate Joker 2, I'd also make it clear Fleck isn't actually a criminal genius but has a horde of idiots willing to work for him and use as cannon fodder.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Oct 9th 2024 at 9:31:27 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.Plus Arthur's need and desire for love and attention from ANYONE would be a great way to motivate his game with Batman.
"You complete me."
Honestly, a Joker who is just whinging it, has a lot of devoted henchmen, and gets extremely lucky when fighting Batman is a great idea for their dynamic.
Edited by RedHunter543 on Oct 10th 2024 at 12:32:53 AM
"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"Batman punches Arthur in the mouth, sends teeth flying, Arthur folds, quits crime. Finis!
By the end of the first film you could place supervillain hopes on Arthur. By this one he wouldn't make a good Joker henchman, much less a comicbook level Joker. Even Gaggy and Johnny Frost would beat him up without any real problem.
EDIT: Gaggy was competent enough to lead Harley to believe she was being pursued by the real deal. Arthur would likely give up at halfway of what Joker put Frost through in the GN.
Edited by TomWithoutJerry on Oct 9th 2024 at 12:46:01 PM
Please remember that, ultimately, fictional works of entertainment are just that.![]()
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I originally thought that Joker and The Batman were set in the same universe. Granted, The Batman is still more comic-booky, but both films are more grounded takes on the characters (look at Riddler) so Phoenix Joker would fit right in. It would great to see him go against Battinson (especially since they are both people who have struggled with identity and their place in the world). That said, I am excited for the Keoghan Joker.
Edited by king15 on Oct 9th 2024 at 4:47:29 PM
Kind of makes sense in a way. Athur Fleck was always "Joker", not "The Joker". He wasn't the definitive article so to speak.
I'm having fun picturing going up against any batman to be honest.
- Arthur Fleck: Who do you think you're talking to? I'm Joker!Bruce: Sure, you are.
Romero Joker, Nicholson Joker, Hammill Joker, Ledger Joker, Leto Joker stand apart talking in hushed tones. Phoenix Joker sits at some distance twiddling his thumbs.
Romero: I'm just saying we can't just kill him and be done with it! By now people have seen him. What we got to do is have him rehabilitate his name, which is our name, first.
Nicholson: Well, and who's going to waste time with that? I know I've got better things to do.
Ledger smacks his lips and shakes his head slowly: No. No, wait, you're looking at this the wrong way. That guy? That guy's an awful criminal but he's a good performer. What we gotta do is, y'know, put on a good show of him pretending to be worthy of the name. Then we get rid of him. That shouldn't be too difficult. Even for you guys.
Leto: You mean one of us pulls a job and makes it look like he did it? I don't like that. I don't work free for anyone else's benefit!
Hammill: Not even if that anyone else is yourself?
Leto: Why don't you do it then?
Hammill thumbs towards Nicholson: What Gramps says. I've got actually good jokes to be cracking somewhere else!
Nicholson: God knows you aren't cracking them here!
Romero: Heh heh!
Hammill: Shut up! Okay, listen, Hobo here might be on something. One of us does something flashy, he looks like he did the deed, the name is restored. Then we off him. Who offs him?
All of them, Hammill included, raise their hands.
Ledger, after a beat: Hobo? I'm not offended, mind, but...
Hammill: And who helps him out with what comes BEFORE offing him?
All of them, Hammill included, lower their hands.
Hammill pinches the bridge of his nose, shakes his head, closes his eyes: This just isn't working...
Phoenix: How much longer is this gonna take...?
Leto: As long as it needs to!
Edited by TomWithoutJerry on Oct 9th 2024 at 1:01:56 PM
Please remember that, ultimately, fictional works of entertainment are just that.
Bold of you to assume the other Jokers would find Leto Joker worthy of their presence.
None of them would think any of the others are funny, albeit for Ledger it never was about the comedy but about the social experimentation. But at least Leto is a competent enough career criminal in universe. They might tolerate him the way Jokers usually tolerate Gotham's lesser criminals, at least as long as they have what they would perceive as a bigger embarrassment at hand.
Regardless of how much worse Leto is written off universe, in universe they'd see Arthur as a bigger embarrassment just because he's much more of a pushover.
But it's all just a gag anyway.
Please remember that, ultimately, fictional works of entertainment are just that.I would be amused by the different Harleys interacting with each other.
- Margott Robbie Harley: You helped the Joker torture and brainwash a child, why did you do that?
- DCAU Harley: Stop right there, you little hypocrite, I check your criminal record and you helped kill the Robin of your universe.
- Margott Robbie Harley: That record lies, I would never do that, I'm more of an anti-hero.
- Injustice Harley: I am also an anti-hero.
- New series Harley: I also.
- Margott harley: Didn't you unleash an army of Parademoons, killing millions?
- New Series Harley: That's water under the bridge, plus if Injustice's Harley can be an anti-hero after helping kill 5 million, I can be one too.
Edited by Ernestin on Oct 9th 2024 at 1:34:32 PM

Pretty much any movie has some people who liked it.
Ernestin: That idea is not even new, the White Knight series did it with the second Harley. Arguably it even applies to DCAU Harley, there was a run of the tie-in comics where Joker mellowed down from psychological treatment and she pushed him back to insanity because she didn't love him as anything but the Joker. But those were tie-in comics so it's up to you how canon they would be.
Please remember that, ultimately, fictional works of entertainment are just that.