TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Batwoman Series set in the Arrowverse

Go To

NotSoBadassLongcoat The Showrunner of Dzwiedz 24 from People's Democratic Republic of Badassia (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Puppy love
The Showrunner of Dzwiedz 24
#126: May 19th 2019 at 7:59:21 AM

Jesus... That trailer is pretty much Have I Mentioned I Am Very, Very Lesbian Today. It's like the creators are desperately trying to prove they're progressive, except they are not and they don't really want to, but there's that pressure. Like "Arf, I'm half Berzerkeley and half brass knuckles! I'm more butch than a butcher!" It's almost as cringeworthy as watching a conservative preacher being violently shaken out of the closet.

"what the complete, unabridged, 4k ultra HD fuck with bonus features" - Mark Von Lewis
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#127: May 19th 2019 at 11:25:31 AM

That trailer is pretty much Have I Mentioned I Am Very, Very Lesbian Today.
Aside from one scene where we see her kissing another woman, where, exactly, does the trailer say she's a lesbian over and over again?

Also: imagine if you fought a bunch of bad guys, but were immediately thought to be someone else — of course you would want recognition. Saying "I don't want a woman's work to be taken by a man" is slightly on the nose, but completely in character. I mean, again, there is a reason she wears a bright red wig in the comics.

caivu Since: Sep, 2014
#128: May 19th 2019 at 11:34:34 AM

Also: imagine if you fought a bunch of bad guys, but were immediately thought to be someone else — of course you would want recognition. Saying "I don't want a woman's work to be taken by a man" is slightly on the nose, but completely in character. I mean, again, there is a reason she wears a bright red wig in the comics.

This is just for clarity's sake, but it's in-character only for this adaptation of Kate, and in her early days. She doesn't have that sort of motive or rationale in the comics.

My stories on AO3.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#129: May 19th 2019 at 11:37:19 AM

This is just for clarity's sake, but it's in-character only for this adaptation of Kate, and in her early days. She doesn't have that sort of motive or rationale in the comics.
Yes, she does. Again: she wears a bright red wig in the comics, too. She very clearly wants people to know that she's Batwoman and not Batman (and again, she came in during a time when Batman wasn't there — during 52, the year without Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman).

She didn't become Batwoman to get famous, that's true, but it doesn't look like she did that in the show either. In the comics, she was looking for a purpose for her life after she was kicked out by West Point (and after she had a "lost year"). It looks like the same happened in the show, but she becomes Batwoman after a former girlfriend is kidnapped.

caivu Since: Sep, 2014
#130: May 19th 2019 at 11:48:08 AM

Yes, she does. Again: she wears a bright red wig in the comics, too. She very clearly wants people to know that she's Batwoman and not Batman (and again, she came in during a time when Batman wasn't there — during 52, the year without Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman).

She doesn't wear a wig in the comics so people will know she's a woman, she wears it because it's a distraction tactic. And being a Bat-anything wasn't even her idea, but Jacob's. On her own, she never adopted any sort of bat-related insignia for herself.

She didn't become Batwoman to get famous, that's true, but it doesn't look like she did that in the show either.

TV!Kate explicitly wants recognition, which has never been something comic!Kate has cared about.

My stories on AO3.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#131: May 19th 2019 at 11:49:54 AM

She doesn't wear a wig in the comics so people will know she's a woman, she wears it because it's a distraction tactic.
It's both.

TV!Kate explicitly wants recognition, which has never been something comic!Kate has cared about.
She wants people to know that it's a woman, not a man, who saved them. That's true in the comics, too.

Also, yes, there has been a massive comment bombing.

Edited by alliterator on May 19th 2019 at 11:50:30 AM

caivu Since: Sep, 2014
#132: May 19th 2019 at 11:56:26 AM

That's true in the comics, too.

Seriously, where are you getting that from, specifically? I honestly can't remember that point coming up anywhere.

My stories on AO3.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#133: May 19th 2019 at 12:03:04 PM

It's implied, just like it's implied that Batman wants criminals to know it's him. Hence why he dresses up like a giant bat.

caivu Since: Sep, 2014
#134: May 19th 2019 at 12:19:15 PM

[up]If you're saying

She wants people to know that it's a woman, not a man, who saved them.

Then... no, that's simply, flatly wrong. I dunno what else to tell you. Kate is motivated by service and does not care about having that acknowledged in any way.

But if you mean that she wears a unique suit so she's recognizable as a Bat, that's different.

My stories on AO3.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#135: May 19th 2019 at 12:21:57 PM

Once again: she wears a bright red wig. If it was only for distraction (if criminals grab the hair, it will come off), it wouldn't be bright red. But it is. She wants people to know she's Batwoman.

She's not motivation by recognition, sure, but that doesn't mean she doesn't want it.

But if you mean that she wears a unique suit so she's recognizable as a Bat, that's different.
How is that different? She could wear completely black, but she doesn't, she wears a bright red bat on her chest, too. She's clearly visible to people when she wants to be.

Edited by alliterator on May 19th 2019 at 12:22:52 PM

caivu Since: Sep, 2014
#136: May 19th 2019 at 12:30:29 PM

Once again: she wears a bright red wig. If it was only for distraction (if criminals grab the hair, it will come off), it wouldn't be bright red. But it is. She wants people to know she's Batwoman.

It's not actually as bright in-universe as it looks to us. Jacob specifically says that the red of her suit "doesn't pop". The red we the audience see is an exaggeration just like Kate's skin and real hair are.

My stories on AO3.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#137: May 19th 2019 at 12:34:31 PM

It's not actually as bright in-universe as it looks to us.
That's some weird justification bullshit. What we see is what we get. Hell, when Renee Montoya first sees Batwoman, she goes, "That's not a Batgirl, that's a Batwoman."

Also, in the comics, Kate Kane's skin is super pale like that. That's...kind of her whole thing. She's super pale with red hair (cut in a buzz cut).

Edited by alliterator on May 19th 2019 at 12:35:14 PM

caivu Since: Sep, 2014
#138: May 19th 2019 at 12:52:10 PM

That's some weird justification bullshit.

Except no, it's not. That's literally what is said on-panel. Jacob used red for her suit because "It's a good color. Doesn't pop during night ops." It's supposed to be subdued and not obvious.

Also, in the comics, Kate Kane's skin is super pale like that. That's...kind of her whole thing.

Her skin's colored that way, yes, but she's not supposed to be literally paper-white, just like her hair isn't literally fire engine red. Here's a quote from JHWIII about it.

My stories on AO3.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#139: May 19th 2019 at 12:59:49 PM

It's supposed to be subdued and not obvious.
Well, then, someone didn't tell the colorist, because it comes out as bright red and everyone who reads it sees it as bright red.

Also, I've been just having this conversation in the MCU thread - Word of God is meaningless, I only go by what's on the page.

caivu Since: Sep, 2014
#140: May 19th 2019 at 1:07:58 PM

[up] Except they did tell the colorist. It's not a mistake or something. They're exaggerating her hair and skin because it looks neat.

And a big 'ol double bird to the idea that Word of God is meaningless. evil grin

My stories on AO3.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#141: May 19th 2019 at 1:50:25 PM

Unless it's a dream or hallucination, what's on the page is what's on the page. It's not "exaggerated" or anything like that. It's literally what's on the page. You can't say "Oh, what's on the page isn't what actually happened because of what the characters say," because that's stupid. The characters could say anything and the page could display something completely different, so which are we supposed to go by? The actual art.

Also, once again: Word of God is useless, considering how many writers there have been on Batwoman and other characters.

caivu Since: Sep, 2014
#142: May 19th 2019 at 2:27:43 PM

[up] What characters say is also "literally what's on the page," so why are you saying that doesn't matter?

Edited by caivu on May 19th 2019 at 5:28:32 AM

My stories on AO3.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#143: May 19th 2019 at 2:43:38 PM

Then he is talking about how the bright red doesn't pop. Makes sense, he might not be able to see color well.

Also, what issue does that come from?

Edited by alliterator on May 19th 2019 at 2:43:56 AM

caivu Since: Sep, 2014
#144: May 19th 2019 at 2:50:27 PM

[up] It's from Detective Comics #860. And now you're just reaching; Jacob has bad eyesight, really? What happened to "literally what's on the page"? tongue

But seriously: Jacob is a pilot and therefore has to have good color vision.

Edited by caivu on May 19th 2019 at 5:53:53 AM

My stories on AO3.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#145: May 19th 2019 at 2:59:43 PM

[up] It's an explanation for why he thinks the bright red doesn't pop. Also, he was a pilot when he was younger; he's a lot older now. Eyesight fades.

In any case, it doesn't matter, because what's on page is what matters. And on page, it's clear that she wants people to recognize her as Batwoman.

caivu Since: Sep, 2014
#146: May 19th 2019 at 3:17:04 PM

It's an explanation for why he thinks the bright red doesn't pop.

An explanation that is not on the page (plus he's still perfectly capable of flying and landing a plane, so it holds that his eyes are fine).

Do you hold to this...

because what's on page is what matters.

...or not?

And on page, it's clear that she wants people to recognize her as Batwoman.

Then please show me where, because all you've said is that it's implied. I've cited my sources, please do the same.

Edited by caivu on May 19th 2019 at 6:23:49 AM

My stories on AO3.
NotSoBadassLongcoat The Showrunner of Dzwiedz 24 from People's Democratic Republic of Badassia (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Puppy love
The Showrunner of Dzwiedz 24
#147: May 19th 2019 at 5:52:09 PM

Aside from one scene where we see her kissing another woman, where, exactly, does the trailer say she's a lesbian over and over again?
That trailer goes out of its way to show how it's supposedly feminist, progressive, etcetera, with all the artistry of a checklist and all the subtlety of a jackhammer, including that scene where Kate presumably gets a BCD. "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" be damned. Why do this if the alt-right chuds already boycotted the series and harassed the star on Twitter long enough for her to shut down her account?

I won't be surprised if the showrunner turns out to be a racist, homophobic jackass on par with The 100's Jason Rothenberg, who not only pissed off the fans by shoving several important minority characters into the fridge, but also pretty much made Ricky Whittle quit the show.

Yes, she does. Again: she wears a bright red wig in the comics, too. She very clearly wants people to know that she's Batwoman
And Batgirl had her hair out of the cowl half a century earlier. So Watsonian explanation be damned, it was a shorthand to make the comic reader know that the character is female when viewed from any angles that could be drawn and make sense.

"what the complete, unabridged, 4k ultra HD fuck with bonus features" - Mark Von Lewis
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#148: May 19th 2019 at 9:34:17 PM

That trailer goes out of its way to show how it's supposedly feminist, progressive, etcetera, with all the artistry of a checklist and all the subtlety of a jackhammer, including that scene where Kate presumably gets a BCD. "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" be damned.
Kate getting kicked out of West Point due to DADT is straight out of the comics. Also, what's wrong with having a feminist, progressive show about a lesbian superhero? Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#149: May 19th 2019 at 9:37:05 PM

The military thing is a pretty cool detail & part of Kate’s character. You don’t see something like it often which makes it interesting.

Also I really don’t have an issue with what they are doing. Sure they don’t nail some lines but it’s not a dealbreaker or anything.

Edited by slimcoder on May 19th 2019 at 9:37:18 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#150: May 19th 2019 at 10:03:44 PM

Was the announcement of Supergirl's series met with anywhere near as much butthurt vitriol?

Do not obey in advance.

Total posts: 1,146
Top