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Bocaj Funny, but not helpful from Here Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny, but not helpful
Sep 2nd 2019 at 3:48:18 PM

Its apparently just one of the writers. Pretty much everyone with a hand in Endgame's narrative has their own position.

My original fictions and Essential Avengers liveblog
RavenWilder Raven Wilder
Raven Wilder
Sep 2nd 2019 at 3:49:48 PM

I still stand by my "Steve totally changed the past, but since all the Infinity Stones remained in place, it didn't create an alternate timeline, thus all the changes were undone once he caught up to the present" interpretation.

"It takes an idiot to do cool things, that's why it's cool" - Haruhara Haruko
Bocaj Funny, but not helpful from Here Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny, but not helpful
Sep 2nd 2019 at 3:51:18 PM

I stand by splinter timelines because I want What If? fodder.

My original fictions and Essential Avengers liveblog
slimcoder Black-Hearted Evil or Brave-Hearted Hero
Black-Hearted Evil or Brave-Hearted Hero
Sep 2nd 2019 at 3:52:27 PM

So this is Steve's life after Endgame then. tongue

Can you see all of me? Walk into my mystery. Do you remember me? Capture you or set you free I am all. I am all... I am all of me
Tuckerscreator from Traveling through the Multiverse Relationship Status: Drift compatible
Sep 2nd 2019 at 3:53:12 PM

The only Steve that makes sense to me is the one that says "If I see a situation pointed south, I can't ignore it."

If your good mood was ruined because you got into an accident with a car...
Bocaj Funny, but not helpful from Here Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny, but not helpful
Sep 2nd 2019 at 3:55:21 PM

The cool thing about stuff not in the actual movie is that we can ignore it and decide our own reality

The text is the text

Also we can ignore the text. What? Some celluloid thinks its better than me??

My original fictions and Essential Avengers liveblog
Sep 2nd 2019 at 4:28:12 PM

That's not news. They've said this a while back, and the directors said the opposite also a while back.

Nothing has changed.

I personally side with the directors on the matter. Its more consistent with the character and works with my understanding on the time travel as depicted in the movie.

It's unlikely this will ever receive a straight answer on film anwyay. The story is done, the character is retired.

Unless they decide to revisit this or build story out of that particular adventure, what actually happened is for the audience to imagine.

Edited by MrSeyker on Sep 2nd 2019 at 4:33:20 AM

TobiasDrake Exposition Dragon from Colorado, USA Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Sep 2nd 2019 at 6:34:53 PM

https://twitter.com/MCU_Direct/status/1168521749933252608

Okay, this is some bullshit. And it makes no sense according to established MCU cannon. I guess the writers just don't give a shit.

As others noted, that's been a disagreement since the film came out. The writers and directors are divided on what happened when Steve went back in time.

The directors say that Steve created a new timeline, lived out his life in that timeline, then used the Quantum Tunnel at some point offscreen to leap back to the original timeline in order to show up for the ending scene.

The writers say that Steve stayed in the original timeline and merely took The Slow Path back to the present. The writers' position is that Steve himself was Peggy's mystery husband back in Winter Soldier.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 2nd 2019 at 7:35:22 AM

Drake's Razor: Never attribute to cold unfeeling logic that which can be equally explained by emotional outburst.
HandsomeRob High Priest of the Holey Brotherhood! from Holey Brotherhood Lair Relationship Status: My elf kissing days are over
High Priest of the Holey Brotherhood!
Sep 2nd 2019 at 6:38:37 PM

This clearly calls for a death match.

Read this post for my theory
Bocaj Funny, but not helpful from Here Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny, but not helpful
Sep 2nd 2019 at 7:46:10 PM

That's not a fair match.

Writers are all scrawny nerds with bad posture and directors have megaphones and might call you bubalah with no warning

My original fictions and Essential Avengers liveblog
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
Sep 2nd 2019 at 7:47:26 PM

On one hand, the former explanation seems like a rather complicated explanation for a single, somber scene at the end of the film.

On the other hand, the latter explanation is just flat-out not how time travel works here.

Oh God! Natural light!
AlleyOop Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Sep 2nd 2019 at 9:29:09 PM

I abhor the writer interpretation. It's extremely out-of-character for what was established about Steve up to the most recent movie with him in it, even if they did want to go on with it and argue it's a form of character development then it'd be a huge Took a Level in Jerkass that doesn't have an understandable Cynicism Catalyst to explain it in-universe, it shits all over Peggy's character development, and, as others have pointed out it's also a terrible inconvenience to fanfiction.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone who likes or supports that interpretation, only a few disgruntled attempts to reconcile it via Fan Wank and the interpretation that Steve is that broken of a man that he'd fixate on it.

Edited by AlleyOop on Sep 2nd 2019 at 12:37:19 PM

Sep 2nd 2019 at 10:36:56 PM

I believe it was Tobias who suggested that a better alternative would be to make it accidental. Cap gets trapped in the past after returning all the stones, and realizes he was always Peggy's mystery husband. He can't change anything, not because he's worried about screwing up the timeline, but because he keeps hitting You Already Changed the Past.

Which, yeah, not how time travel is supposed to work, but still better.

Bocaj Funny, but not helpful from Here Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny, but not helpful
Sep 2nd 2019 at 10:49:42 PM

Doesn't work with the writers' goal of making it Some Kind Of Character Choice

My original fictions and Essential Avengers liveblog
Sep 2nd 2019 at 10:55:51 PM

Besides utterly destroying his characterization, here's something else that makes me think the writers just don't care about their work: Sharon Carter. (this isn't my discovery, I saw someone else make it and felt stupid for not realizing it myself). Sharon is explicitly stated to be Peggy Carter's niece. Well Peggy only had one sibling, a brother who died young in the war, and had no kids. So Sharon would have to be from Peggy's husband's side of the family. But if we accept the writers' claim that her husband was Steve Rogers all along that's a big problem. Because we know Steve never had any siblings. So where did Sharon come from?

I've heard that in the never-released season of Agent Carter it was going to be revealed that her brother actually was alive (which would theoretically give him time to father a child) and mixed up in really bad things somehow, but. Never-released seasons are like deleted scenes; they literally didn't happen, so can't be used to explain things that did happen. I can think of some scenarios that could explain Peggy having a niece she's not biologically related to, but I would be just making things up. The audience shouldn't have to write fanfictions to justify cannon.

See what I mean by the writers just not caring?

alliterator How dare you? from Southern California Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
How dare you?
Sep 2nd 2019 at 10:58:15 PM

Sharon is explicitly stated to be Peggy Carter's niece. Well Peggy only had one sibling, a brother who died young in the war, and had no kids.
It's actually implied at the end of Agent Carter Season 2 that Michael Carter, her brother, is still alive and merely faked his own death. That's what the third season of Agent Carter would have been about had the show not been cancelled.

Also, it's never stated that Michael is her only brother, only that he's her older brother. She could have had other siblings that we never heard about.

Edited by alliterator on Sep 2nd 2019 at 11:00:41 AM

"What, you think I won't fight a dinosaur? Are you crazy? All I want to do is fight dinosaurs." — Squirrel Girl
TobiasDrake Exposition Dragon from Colorado, USA Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Sep 3rd 2019 at 6:03:17 AM

[up][up] In that regard, I don't think anyone on the creative team cared. Sharon dropped off the face of the universe after Civil War. She doesn't even get a token mention in the Infinity films.

Drake's Razor: Never attribute to cold unfeeling logic that which can be equally explained by emotional outburst.
TargetmasterJoe Much more than meets the eye! from The City, USA Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
Much more than meets the eye!
Sep 3rd 2019 at 7:13:58 AM

[up][up][up], [up][up], [up]: Maybe they'll acknowledge that elephant in the room with The Falcon and the Winter Soldier?

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Sep 3rd 2019 at 10:14:44 AM

Status: Evil beware, I have Twitter!
TobiasDrake Exposition Dragon from Colorado, USA Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Sep 3rd 2019 at 7:22:15 AM

They might. Now that Cap's out of the picture, there's no reason not to have her around.

They tried unsuccessfully to make her Steve's Big Deal Love Interest in Winter Soldier and Civil War. It's the same role she has in the comics, where she's the Lois Lane to his Superman. Comic-wise, there is no more iconic Steve Rogers love interest than Agent 13, Sharon Carter.

But the Peggy connection made it an issue. In the comics, Peggy's some two-bit from the WWII era of Marvel Comics. She doesn't matter to anything and hasn't for literally decades. No one cared about Peggy Carter, even if they were among the rare few who actually knew she existed as a character outside of "Sharon Carter's backstory".

But in the MCU, Peggy Carter's a Big F*cking Deal. She was the love of Steve's life in WWII and a badass agent in her own right. She even had her own show that ran for two seasons. The dynamic is completely reversed; Peggy's the one people really care about.

In the comics, Peggy is "Sharon Carter's aunt, who appeared in some comics decades ago but all you really need to know is that 'war hero' runs in the family."

In the MCU, Sharon is "Peggy Carter's niece, who shows up in the films sometimes so that Steve can bang her and it's super creepy."

So the creative team, for Infinity War/Endgame, basically dumped MCU Sharon on the curb (which I approve of) so that they could reinstate Peggy as Steve's love interest (which I do not approve of). But now that Steve and Peggy are out of the picture, I'd be down for Sharon showing up in Bucky and Sam's show. It'd give her a chance to be the cool agent character that her "Just popping in to remind the audience that Steve and I are supposed to hook up!" role in the films never really did justice to.

Drake's Razor: Never attribute to cold unfeeling logic that which can be equally explained by emotional outburst.
alliterator How dare you? from Southern California Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
How dare you?
Sep 3rd 2019 at 8:57:05 AM

Now that Cap's out of the picture, there's no reason not to have her around.
Sharon Carter is, in fact, one of the main characters of Falcon and the Winter Soldier.

"What, you think I won't fight a dinosaur? Are you crazy? All I want to do is fight dinosaurs." — Squirrel Girl
TobiasDrake Exposition Dragon from Colorado, USA Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Sep 3rd 2019 at 11:12:06 AM

Awesome! I look forward to seeing her without the creepy specter of hooking up with her aunt's ex-boyfriend hanging over her head.

That scene in Winter Soldier where she pulled a gun on Rumlow to try and stop the Insight Helicarriers from launching? Easily Sharon's best moment in the whole franchise. Can't wait to see more of that.

Drake's Razor: Never attribute to cold unfeeling logic that which can be equally explained by emotional outburst.
eligram Relationship Status: In denial
Sep 3rd 2019 at 1:26:18 PM

[up]You're wrong, her best moment was teaming up wih Natasha to figth Bucky.

To bad we'll never see those two kicking ass together again.

Edited by eligram on Sep 3rd 2019 at 4:26:55 AM

AlleyOop Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Sep 3rd 2019 at 1:33:03 PM

They were going to have Sharon be in Endgame, and Steve would've been living with her as a couple during the five year timeskip but in an unhappy relationship because Steve finds her unfulfilling. It'd canonize the Replacement Goldfish interpretation, sure, but it feels like they're shitting on Sharon to prop up Peggy when neither of them needs that, not to mention it'd make Steve look even more obsessed with Peggy in a way that the previous movies didn't suggest about his feelings toward her. Talk about taking something sweet and tragic and emotional, and turning it creepy while still insisting that it's supposed to sweet.

My worry for what they'll do with her in The Falcon and Winter Soldier is they're still not quite going to learn their lesson and think the best way to use Sharon is to make her the love interest of one of those two, which would place the specter of the Replacement Goldfish on her yet again by having her, the replacement girlfriend for the first Captain America, who was underdeveloped outside of that role, just wind up dating the replacement for Captain America. They handled her pretty well in Winter Soldier so I'm not sure why they had so much trouble afterward, outside of suddenly changing their minds about what direction they wanted to take Steve in, but not caring that it wasn't set up nor had time for the setup to justify it.

Edited by AlleyOop on Sep 3rd 2019 at 4:57:47 AM

Bocaj Funny, but not helpful from Here Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny, but not helpful
Sep 3rd 2019 at 1:40:33 PM

They just never should have had her and Steve kiss in Civil War.

My original fictions and Essential Avengers liveblog
Ultimatum ◕ Disasturbator from England Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
◕ Disasturbator
Sep 3rd 2019 at 1:42:47 PM

> To bad we'll never see those two kicking ass together again.

Never say never though.

click not | no dont click this either seriously why would you

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