TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Cleanup thread: Magnificent Bastard

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous post 
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

  • Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.

  • What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
    • Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
    • Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
    • Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
    • Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
    • Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.

  • What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.

  • Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.

  • What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
    • Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
    • Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
    • List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
    • The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.

  • How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.

  • What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.

  • What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.

  • What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.

  • Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.

  • What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.

  • Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.

  • What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.

  • Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.

Thread rules

When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.

Resolved items

In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.

However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.

This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.

Definitely an MB

Definitely not an MB

  • South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#22126: Jun 28th 2020 at 10:14:39 AM

I don't do potholes, I'll let whoever wants to have at it.

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#22127: Jun 28th 2020 at 10:29:09 AM

@ 43110, order by appearance may be best, so first Garak and then Sloan.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#22128: Jun 28th 2020 at 10:30:07 AM

Cool, add him and I'll take care of it.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#22129: Jun 28th 2020 at 1:52:01 PM

This is my suggested tweak. Small but more accurate.

  • Wadsworth in the third ending is the real Mr. Boddy, a ruthless blackmailer who is blackmailing every guest in the house. Having lured them to the manor, he used a body double to fake his own death as a decoy before manipulating every guest to murder his former co-conspirators and destroy the extra evidence so he no longer has to worry about their treachery. After having every impediment to his schemes killed, he reveals he knows the guilt of every single guest and plots to continue blackmailing all of them. Despite his villainy, Wadsworth conducts himself with total charm and a dapper congeniality, pleasant even after he's been shot.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#22130: Jun 28th 2020 at 2:03:25 PM

Is it just the "in the third ending" that needs to go in? I'll just request it.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#22131: Jun 28th 2020 at 2:08:29 PM

Pretty much .

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#22132: Jun 28th 2020 at 2:24:27 PM

Yeah I'll just ask for it on locked pages... see anything on the drafts you'd like potholed btw? I'll submit it in a bit.

SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#22133: Jun 28th 2020 at 3:11:20 PM

Alright, this post is going to take a while. I will put my personal feelings for the character aside and look at him as cleanly and as objectively as possible.

The Heavy of Naruto, Tobi.

(For the most part, I'm using English anime names, though I will occasionally use a different translation)

Who is Obito Uchiha

Obito Uchiha Used to Be a Sweet Kid. A ninja who grew up during the Third Ninja War, Obito was on a team with Kakashi Hatake and Rin Nohara, under the leadership of Minato Namikaze. Obito loved Rin, but hated Kakashi for being better and kind of an ass. On one mission, Rin was kidnapped, and Obito deviated from the mission to go save her, leading for Kakashi to come to his aid and the two finally befriending each other. However, Kakashi lost his left eye in battle, and although Obito awakened his Sharingan, he soon sacrificed himself to save Kakashi from a boulder. His right half crushed, Obito gave his left Sharingan to Kakashi as a parting gift, before being buried beneath the rocks.

Obito was thought to have died that day. But he barely survived, saved by the extremely elderly Madara Uchiha, who helped him recover with the goal of making him his proxy from beyond the grave. Obito wanted nothing more than to escape and reunite with his friends, and when he learned that Kakashi and Rin being attacked by Hidden Mist ninja, Obito left, with the help of one of the Zetsus, and raced over to save them, but arrived to find Kakashi impaling and killing Rin. Enraged, Obito slaughtered the Mist ninja with his newly awakened Mangekyo Sharingan, crossing the Despair Event Horizon and deciding the the current world was Hell.

Returning to Madara, Obito was told of the Moon Eye Plan, in which Madara planned on resurrecting the Ten-Tails and using its power to launch the Infinite Tsukuyomi to trap everyone in a dream world. Obito agreed to help make this world a reality, and as Madara died and left behind Black Zetsu to watch over him, named Obito as his proxy until his own resurrection at Nagato's hands. Obito was to guide Nagato into doing this while gathering up the tailed beasts. And Madara died and Obio took up his identity and a mask, and together with Zetsu hijacked the Akastuki and became its secret leader, while Nagato became a figurehead. The anime also had him responsible for the deaths of the original Akatsuki except for Nagato, Konan, and Yahiko (who died anyway). Obito had no intention on resurrecting Madara, and planned to use the Infinite Tsukuyomi himself to create a paradise for himself, Kakashi, Rin, and everyone who ever existed, even those who died.

Obito eventually decided to take the Nine-Tailed Fox first, which was sealed inside Kushina Uzumaki, wife of now Fourth Hokage Minato, and about to give birth to Naruto. Since labor made the seal weak, the masked Obito attacked and killed their guards and servants, briefly held the baby Naruto as a hostage, and made off with Kushina, extracting the Nine-Tails from her and unleashing it on the Hidden Leaf village. Minato and Obito fought, and although Obito was defeated and his control broken, the Fox still rampaged, forcing Minato and Kushina to sacrifice themselves to seal it inside Naruto.

A few years later encountered by Itachi Uchiha, who was tasked by the Hidden Leaf elder Danzo Shimura with murdering the entire Uchiha clan except for his brother, Sasuke, who would go on to seek revenge on Itachi. Obito, wanting to recruit Itachi and collect Sharingan eyes for his own use, agreed to help with the massacre. Itachi then joined the Akatsuki as a Reverse Mole, yet Obito was well aware of the truth.

In the meantime, taking control the Hidden Mist by manipulating the Fourth Mizukage, Obito discovered the apparent truth behind Rin's death: the Hidden Mist sealed the Three-Tails inside of her in order to destroy the Hidden Leaf village, and she threw herself in front of Kakashi to sacrifice herself. This only hardened Obito's ambition, and as the Hidden Mist grew more despotic, Obito was eventually discovered, but not before recruiting Kisame Hoshigake into his ranks as a future Akastuki member.

After that, Obito decided to use the Akastuki to capture the Jinchuriki in which the Tailed Beasts were sealed, and extract the monsters and trap them in the Ten-Tails husk, the Gedo Statue, this killing the hosts in the process. With Nagato, now known as Pain, as acting leader, Obito joined as "Tobi" a goofy newby under Zetsu's watch.

Eventually, the conflict between Sasuke and Itachi ended with Itachi dying, which Tobi took the chance to approach Sasuke as "Madara Uchiha" and reveal the truth of the Uchiha massacre and Itachi's motivations. This set Sasuke against the Hidden Leaf Village and as a favor, Tobi ordered Sasuke and his allies to capture the Eight-Tails Jinchuriki Killer B, which failed because B left behind a decoy to be taken instead. Tobi also ordered Pain to attack the Hidden Leaf to acquire Naruto, but that failed as well, with Nagato and Konan turning good and the former dying using the Rinne Rebirth on the Hidden Leaf instead of on Madara as initially intended. Which again Obito was fine with since he had no intention of restoring Madara.

Tobi sent Kisame after B and confronts Sasuke, who planned on attacking the Hidden Leaf. Tobi sent Sasuke to the Five Kage Summit in order to kill Danzo, both as a favor and as a way for Sasuke to sate his revenge, secretly ordering Zetsu to reveal Sasuke's presence in order to keep the Kage distracted. In the meantime, Tobi confronted Naruto, Kakashi, and Yamato in order to understand why Nagato turned good, while also informing Naruto of Sasuke's new ambition and giving exposition on the Uchiha's Curse of Hatred. Leaving without a fight, Tobi made his appearance at the summit and after revealing the Moon Eye Plan and trying to no avail to force the Kage to hand over Naruto and B, declared a world war in order to obtain what he wanted. He then helped Sasuke confront and kill Danzo, but failed to steal Danzo's secret Sharingan. Saving Sasuke as he was fighting Naruto and Kakashi, Tobi transplanted Itachi's eyes into Sasuke at his request to grant him the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan, and sent Kisame to track down Naruto's location, which would result in his death later.

Soon after, Kabuto Yakushi approached Tobi and offered to ally with him in the war, granting him an army of reanimated ninja in exchange for Sasuke, forcing Tobi into the deal by threatening to unleash the real Madara upon the world (since Tobi still presented as Madara). Tobi agreed, with the condition that Sasuke be given to him after the war, and went on his way to the Hidden Rain Village to confront Konan and steal Nagato's Rinnegan. The battle was fierce, but Tobi barely won out thanks to using Izanagi to survive a ten minute series of explosions, and killed Konan, making of with a Rinnegan in his left eye.

A confrontation with Anko left Tobi suspicious of Kabuto's true goals and, although Kabuto demonstrated his Reanimation to prove loyalty, has White Zetsu plant spores on him for monitoring. Taking the six reincarnated Jinchuriki for himself, Tobi made his own Six Paths of Pain. The Fourth Great Ninja War begins, and it seems that the odds our in the villains' favor.

However, Naruto and Killer B entered the fray and with the former having obtained the Nine-Tails Chakra Mode. This allowed Naruto to turn things in favor of the Allied Shinobi Forces, leading to Kabuto summoning Madara as a trump card, busting Tobi's claim to being Madara. Confronting Naruto and B and learning of this, Obito quiet anger quickly turned into amusement, since he no longer needed the name "Madara" or indeed any name. Naruto and B took down Tobi's Six Paths, and Kakashi and Might Guy joined the battle against Tobi himself. Discovering the secret to his Kamui, Kakashi is able to allow Naruto to land a hit on Tobi and destroy his mask.

Now finally revealed, Obito was soon joined by Madara himself, who chastised him on deviating from the plan. Ignoring Kakashi's pleas, Obito was able to gather enough Chakra to revive the Ten-Tails, using it kill many opposing ninja, including Neji Hyuga, in an attempt to show Naruto the same despair he went through. However, Naruto refused to give in and separated the Ten-Tails from Obito and Madara. This led to Obito and Kakashi fighting in the Kamui dimension, and although Kakashi tried to reason with him, Obito made it clear that he does not blame him for Rin's death, but rather the world for allowing such a cruel thing to happen. The ensuing battle resulted in Kakashi mortally wounding Obito, who makes his way back the normal dimension. Madara activated a seal on Obito's heart in an attempt to force him to perform Rinne Rebirth to resurrect him, but Obito instead absorbed the Ten-Tails to become its Jinchuriki, as the seal was accidentally destroyed by Kakashi, as Obito intended.

Although initially losing his mind, Obito was able to hang on through his love of Rin, and made preparations for the Infinite Tsukuyomi. However, his attempts to drag the Allied Shinobi Forces into despair kept failing, and his fight with Naruto and Sasuke resulted in him losing control of the Ten-Tails chakra, allowing Naruto and Sasuke, with the help of the entire Allied Shinobi Forces, to create a chain to drag out all of the Tailed Beasts from Obito. Their Chakara meeting, Naruto entered Obito's mind and used Talk no Jutsu to convince him to redeem himself. He gets a “The Reason You Suck” Speech from his own past self and, realizing that he truly regreted his actions, is convinced as the Tailed Beasts were extracted. Obito barely survives and, after a talk with Kakashi and the reanimated Minato, decides to fully redeem himself to perform Rinne Rebirth on the deceased allies.

However, Black Zetsu took control of his body and forced him to fully revive Madara before attempting to force him to give his Rinnegan over to Madara. However, Obito resisted and transported Sakura and a dying Naruto to the Kamui dimension, where he was able to save the boy, before instructing Sakura to destroy the Rinnegan. However, Madara appeared and revealed that he arranged for Rin's death to occur before stealing the Rinnegan, causing Obito to fall unconscious and Black Zetsu to resume control. Then we have the shit with Kaguya Otsutsuki taking over, and Obito awakened, helped in the battle, and then sacrificed himself to save Naruto. From beyond, Obito gives Kakashi his Chakra and two Mangekyo Sharingan in order to defeat Kaguya, and after that, finally passed on to be with Rin for eternity.

Is he magnificent?

First of all, pulling two layers of disguise the way he did is impressive. He was a guy pretending to be a dead guy pretending to be a goofball. And he did it all very convincingly. Many of Obito's actions are accomplished through his words rather than his actions, and it shows. This contrasts with Madara, who only gets as far as he does because he is OP as shit. If someone is trying to outwit him, he can turn it around against them. This is shown perfectly when he manages to seal the Ten-Tails within himself in spite of Madara's attempt at reviving himself. And in the end, Obito only loses because he is convinced to give up by Naruto.

In spite of his actions, Obito has a benevolent goal: to create a world where no one is dead and everyone is happy. And it's not as a means to control people, he truly wants this world to exist. Unfortunately, this means that he doesn't care for the current world, and is willing to kill people under the logic that they will be alive in the dream world anyway.

Obito is rather pragmatic in his actions. If someone is still useful to him, like Sasuke, he will save them from death. If they are no longer useful or turn against him, like Konan, then he gets ruthless. It is because of this that nobody really turns against him. Pain has different plans, but never actually betrays Obito. Sasuke turns good, but only at Itachi's behest. Itachi himself was never loyal to Obito, but Tobi still outwitted him in the end.

Really, the only one who we can say outsmarted him is Black Zetsu, but honestly it's not really fair. How much Black Zetsu influenced him or even how at all is left unknown except for one instance. (Of course, it's because the twist is bullshit, but whatever)

Also note that Obito is well liked in some circles and disliked in others. He is a Base-Breaking Character, not The Scrappy.

Is he a bastard? Too much?

Obito has killed many people to achieve his goals. His actions include attacking the Hidden Leaf Village, helping massacre the Uchiha, taking control of the Hidden Mist, leading the Akastuki, and starting a war. In a vacuum, this stuff would be Complete Monster material (and it really should have been). However, Obito doesn't act out of sadism or revenge. He acts because he is ruthless and unfettered. The people who die don't matter, because they will be alive in the new world anyway. His actions have a reason for being, even if he does go overboard at times. He's extremely ruthless, but not a complete dick.

Now that goddamn Freudian Excuse...

Alright, here is the most contentious part of Obito: his reason for being evil. It's actually a bit more complicated than you might think, but it was butchered by Kishimoto's presentation of it.

In other words, yes he is evil because of Rin dying, but there is more to it than that.

To start off, he was an orphan and was looked down by his peers as well as his own clan. The anime gave him a grandmother who raised and cared for him, but no such character existed in the manga. He had one friend who kept him from sinking into despair. He then nearly dies saving her and another, and when he tries to reunite with them, sees the first friend be killed by the second friend. And keep in mind that he was still a child when this happened. And then he discovered that she was set up to destroy his village.

In other words, the implication is that her death drove him into despair, and circumstances behind it drove him to evil. I do think it was botched in how it was executed, but Obito is correct in a way. What kind of world is it that is willing to turn a child into a time bomb? Obito rightly understands that it is a depraved one. It's just how we wants to solve it is tainted because he is despair.

Of course, that same conversation is weird because it also had Obito denying that Rin and Kakashi are real because the former died and the latter let her, even though he doesn't blame Kakashi. So yeah.

Verdict?

It will mostly come down to what you think of his Freudian Excuse and if you think his actions are too much. If he goes up, I think Obito would be a good example of a bad way to write an MB. If he doesn't go up, fine by me, I just wanted to get this out there.

Edited by SatoshiBakura on Jun 28th 2020 at 6:14:11 AM

jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#22134: Jun 28th 2020 at 3:22:01 PM

I'm abstaining. I remember thinking that the the twist of tobi being obito was masterclass in foreshadowing but I felt like his reasons for being who he was were bullshit.. Ultimately I feel black zetsu is a bit of a cloud over him.

[up][lol]Talk no jutsu... yeah.

Edited by jjjj2 on Jun 28th 2020 at 6:24:28 AM

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#22136: Jun 28th 2020 at 3:40:03 PM

Obito took a major level in badaas when he became Tobi and he did bounce back from Madara's manipulations such as knowing about the seal he placed on his heart and manipulating Kakashi into cutting it out to control the Ten Tails.

And he dies with much more dignity than Madara.

Yes to Obito.

Edited by username2527 on Jun 28th 2020 at 3:40:07 AM

SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#22137: Jun 28th 2020 at 3:48:51 PM

The real irony for me is that I actually like Madara as a character better than Obito, OP-ness not withstanding. He is a man who once had good intentions that were shaped by tragedy, but those good intentions were wrecked by his own blood lust. IMO, even with his excuse, he could have possibly been a good complex CM if not for his ending.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#22139: Jun 28th 2020 at 3:55:55 PM

Obito, huh?

This guy. Oh, man, this guy. This fucking guy.

Full disclosure, I ultimately like none of the Uchihas, so forgive me in advance. So, for that reason, I won't cover him being Unintentionally Unsympathetic.

Sure, he's smart and manipulative, but I feel his magnificence as a whole is undermined. What do I mean? Obito/Tobi benefits sometimes from what I like to call "author-mandated handouts," and that is a recurring thing for people from the Uchiha Clan. Maybe not to the hair-pulling extent as Madara, but Tobi/Obito has enjoyed such privileges like having an unforeshadowed Izanagi eye in his covered eye against Konan (he'd be dead otherwise) note  , being able to Kamui back from the dead (body and thus eyes were destroyed), and brainwashing the Mizukage (Killer Bee stated Jinchuriki cannot be put under Genjutsu, from a Sharingan no less, because of their Tailed Beast within),

Also, his Complexity Addiction allows the Spanner In The Work Naruto to beat him in the end. It is stated that he was facing an internal crisis about his plans, but that doesn't change the end results not looking good in his favor.

While not to the hair-pulling extent as Itachi, he also gets Character Shilling I personally feel is unwarranted (Naruto calling him the "coolest" or "nothing but awesome" depending on translation). It feels Kishimoto wants you to try so hard to feel sorry for him in despite the botched execution that was mentioned in the EP.

So, count me as a no.

Edited by erazor0707 on Jun 28th 2020 at 6:59:18 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#22140: Jun 28th 2020 at 3:56:44 PM

[tup]the coolest guy Obito

I mean hey everything's their. He might not be my favourite character but I can't really say he does anything that would put him out of this

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#22141: Jun 28th 2020 at 4:11:53 PM

I mean, he ain't getting an award for best MB anytime soon but likewise I'm leaning yeah and I think my want to say no is ultimately done away with looking at parallels in characters I've actually enjoyed and we've said yes to both in silliness of plot and undermining factors. He's got a fan base, so that's no issue and it's not so much that Black Zetsu was smarter than him than it was having access to information literally no one else did. Yes to Obito aka how to not write your MB 101.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#22142: Jun 28th 2020 at 4:15:36 PM

Could we add him to the you want to wrote a magnificent bastard. As a case study in how maybe not to do this.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#22143: Jun 28th 2020 at 4:22:07 PM

[up]I second that, if he gets approved. Oh yeah I forgot you can just put him in the treat with caution section regardless of whether or not he's been approved.

Edited by jjjj2 on Jun 28th 2020 at 7:24:08 AM

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#22144: Jun 28th 2020 at 4:22:11 PM

Sure maybe on the tread with caution section if he goes up and just note that he's been approved but doesn't make for a good example to write yourself?

hittheassassin Since: Jan, 2018 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
#22145: Jun 28th 2020 at 4:40:08 PM

I'll choose to abstain on Obito because he really is a contentious character in regards to his actions and motives. Part of me wants to [tup] him because of how competent of the schemer and much like Nagato and Kisame, died on his own terms, rather than go out pathetically like Madara or Black Zetsu. On the other hand, his motives, while admittedly poorly executed, were still centred around the fact that his crush died. Note that his turn to evil was before he found out the truth behind her death.

Btw, now that my entry on Terada is given a solid [tup] so far, since he appears in both 1 and 2, would his entry be under the franchise page or under Yakuza 2 where his role is most active?

Edited by hittheassassin on Jun 28th 2020 at 7:40:35 PM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#22146: Jun 28th 2020 at 4:52:41 PM

Abstain on Obito

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#22147: Jun 28th 2020 at 4:52:59 PM

Abstain on Obito.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#22148: Jun 28th 2020 at 5:20:50 PM

Franchise, he’s technically “series wide” if he’s in more than one.

Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#22149: Jun 28th 2020 at 6:03:44 PM

Ehh...I'm gonna give a [tdown] to Obito. I won't put up a fuss if he goes up, but when the portrayal of his motivation is butchered to the point where it makes someone that's supposed to come off as tragic and noble instead makes him come off as whiny and childish, I can't be comfortable saying yes to him.

Edited by Awesomekid42 on Jun 28th 2020 at 9:19:49 AM

erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#22150: Jun 28th 2020 at 6:08:31 PM

Yeah, this isn't a case where the author lucked up and made a MB by accident. Kishimoto was clearly trying to make Obito one, but still botched the writing in one too many areas I feel.


Total posts: 82,595
Top