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Cleanup thread: Magnificent Bastard

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous post 
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

  • Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.

  • What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
    • Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
    • Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
    • Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
    • Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
    • Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.

  • What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.

  • Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.

  • What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
    • Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
    • Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
    • List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
    • The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.

  • How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.

  • What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.

  • What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.

  • What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.

  • Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.

  • What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.

  • Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.

  • What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.

  • Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.

Thread rules

When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.

Resolved items

In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.

However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.

This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.

Definitely an MB

Definitely not an MB

  • South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#18026: Apr 26th 2020 at 10:44:36 PM

Yeah, it's easier to like a character if they have some kind of sympathetic qualities. Abstaining in the Blaz Blue stuff for now

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#18027: Apr 26th 2020 at 10:45:56 PM

No one, especially not me. Are saying that you "need" audience sympathy. But it does help.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#18028: Apr 26th 2020 at 10:53:26 PM

Yeah, being sympathetic can certainly help, but it's not as essential as being respectable (for lack of a better word)

Riley1sCool Since: Dec, 2014
#18029: Apr 26th 2020 at 11:08:38 PM

See, and I consider murdering your family (Including, once again, his own child who is nothing but kind) because you wanted to make killer robots for your “dream” and they seemed convenient to be pretty far past respectable. Other keepers have done similar things, but they’ve always had either Blue-and-Orange Morality, some reason to do so, or some redeeming quality that make sure up for it. While Relius is theatrical and a master of the Gambit Pileup, he strikes me as being a delusional psychopath, and unlike, say, Thanos, there’s no tragedy or determination to his murder of his family. It’s cruel, brought about only by convenience rather than necessity, and I think it’s a massive factor that puts me over on my cut vote.

Short version: If he had any good reason to do what he does or redeeming qualities, I’d consider Clover badass and admirable enough to be a Magnificent Bastard. As it stands, I just think he’s too far beyond the lines than I can consider “magnificent.”

Edited by Riley1sCool on Apr 26th 2020 at 11:10:42 AM

Klavice (Elder Troper)
#18030: Apr 27th 2020 at 12:00:20 AM

Having played BlazBlue I was puzzled as to why he was this trope. Count me as a [tdown].

I think Darkrai from PMD2 should also be brought up as he tortures a kid (Azurill) as painfully as possible in a nightmare, and almost causes the protagonists (who are implied to be teens/young adults) to kill themselves. Is that really what a MB does? Honestly, I think he's too much of a bastard to count having played Explorers. I think the only reason he was considered for this trope is because he was forcibly given amnesia and thus can join your party. But I don't think that's enough. He just comes off as extremely sadistic.

Compare Dusknoir who is a bastard, no questions, but he has a grander goal, and is considerably less sociopathic than Darkrai, to the point that travelling with Grovyle gives him a sort of purpose, despite originally planning to do a Grand Theft Me and take over the present day, leading to his Heel–Face Turn. Also Darkrai is not a graceful loser at all.

Edited by Klavice on Apr 27th 2020 at 12:11:00 PM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#18031: Apr 27th 2020 at 12:55:22 AM

I can see your point on Relius, though I still think that he should stay since he does have a reason behind the actions that he committed unlike Terumi does does everything For the Evulz and is a brilliant schemer Plus Relius is a major Ensemble Dark Horse within the fan base which shows that he’s a popular villain.

I’d also say keep Darkrai as he’s not deliberately trying to torture Azurill and him suffering nightmares is merely a side effect to Darkrai’s scheming and a lot of other Pokémon have suffered nightmares as well.

Also any other opinions on Alejandro?

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#18032: Apr 27th 2020 at 1:01:15 AM

I'll say cut Relius, all things considered. If it were just the Astral Finisher thingies, I think I'd give it a slide, since it's just finishing animations for VS fights which often are kinda dubiously canon in fighting games, but the combo of that and his pretty brutal actions as a villain involving butchering his family and committing Mind Rape, all together works in tandem to make me say cut.

I was gonna wait on this one until I got a bigger batch going, but I've been in a bit of a slog for effortposts so I'll go ahead and knock this one out so he isn't sitting on the pending for weeks lol.

  • Star Wars: Moff Trachta is a passionate member of the Empire whose noble loyalty to the cause leads to conflicts with even the likes of the Emperor himself. In his introductory story, Trachta saves the Emperor from Gentis's machinations and then schemes with Vader to take back Coruscant from the leaders of a coup, ultimately succeeding thanks to Trachta's charisma and strategies. When Vader murders a group of prisoners Trachta had honorably promised to spare out of respect, a disgusted Trachta spends decades planning a coup of his own against Vader and the Emperor, putting his plan into play in Star Wars: Empire as leader of the Anti-Sith Conspiracy. Secretly training a squad of stormtroopers to serve him right under Vader's nose, Trachta sacrifices part of them in a faked assassination on the Emperor, killing many of his Elite Guard so that Palpatine would request more security, which Trachta would use to allow his trained stormtroopers access to the Emperor to carry out an assassination. Trachta thinks to lure Vader away from the location into a separate trap as well, and nearly gets the drop on his own allies trying to betray him, a betrayal that ultimately undoes the entire plan and proves that Trachta was the genius behind the Anti-Sith Conspiracy as a whole.

Edited by Ravok on Apr 27th 2020 at 1:04:48 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
DarkPhoenix94 Since: Jan, 2015
#18033: Apr 27th 2020 at 1:34:06 AM

The spoilers are important, particularly where Maddie is concerned - it's a major plot point.

  • Child of the Storm: Doctor Stephen Strange a.k.a Taliesin is the Sorcerer Supreme whose Purpose-Driven Immortality is based on defeating Thanos and will take any means necessary to save as many people as he possibly can. Carefully crafting a "reputation for omniscience" over millennia, he uses his inability to lie, abilities a Seer, and careful word choice to ensure people will react as he intends, Strange plays heroes and villains alike, even breaking Lucius Malfoy, a dangerous mastermind who had brought the world to its knees, in a single speech. Setting up his pieces perfectly, Strange has the world organized exactly as he needs for his plans and even tricks Chthon into taking the worst possible host, purging him from the universe. In the sequel, Strange adapts to the temporary loss of his seer powers and manages to destroy various threats to himself and the world, while making amends and earning a happy ending for Maddie, whom he believes he failed more than anyone else. Regretful of his own Necessary Evil but resolved to defeat Thanos no matter what it takes, Strange showcases remarkable ingenuity and charm through all his appearances.

Edited by DarkPhoenix94 on Apr 27th 2020 at 3:35:51 PM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#18034: Apr 27th 2020 at 2:00:51 AM

I was gonna wait til a response on PM, but I'll just make it now as he appears to be busy.

I feel those points on Relius are totally fair.

It sounds like it was still done with a goal in mind. And yes I get "has a goal" isn't an automatic argument. But this isn't like Neil Cassidy, If Neil just had a child killed then while it would still be bad it wouldn't be as visceral as what he actually did(having a child Cannibalized)

Edited by Kylotrope on Apr 27th 2020 at 5:09:04 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#18035: Apr 27th 2020 at 5:08:05 AM

Y’know what? I’m changing to no: his “purpose” is stroking his god complex, I’m not giving him a pass on how awful his mental torture is just because it’s not physical, doing that to his family is terrible and turning the whole world into dolls like that sounds disgusting.

@ Phoenix, The spoiler tags are good, I just don’t write with them. You can put that in the drafts on my sig.

Edited by 43110 on Apr 27th 2020 at 8:10:41 AM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#18036: Apr 27th 2020 at 5:28:39 AM

That's all fair.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#18038: Apr 27th 2020 at 6:44:51 AM

One thing I'm taking out of all of this? We're running into something that's been thoroughly experienced in vastness on CM: cases where an author intended for a character to be this trope but their crimes make a lot of us go "No, that's gross". Of course it can go both ways, Kycilia is supposed to epitomize Tomino's ideal of an unattractive woman but the frostiness with which she's written and ingenious and unscrupulous tactics she uses make her much more charming and respectable of a villain for audiences. Grimmel was supposed to be despised as a dragon hunter but the writers forgot to put in requisite actions to make him detestable and he just came across as a smart bad guy. On the flip side, as I've brought up before, I'm sure Vect is supposed to be this and if you ask enough people I'm sure someone will assert he is but what he does pushed him too far out for our tastes. It's an interesting stepping stone and one we seem to be seeing a lot lately.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#18039: Apr 27th 2020 at 6:53:27 AM

[up]Whose Vect? Moments like this I regret not being as versed in media as everyone else here.

Also cut Relius.

Edited by Bullman on Apr 27th 2020 at 8:54:46 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#18040: Apr 27th 2020 at 6:56:59 AM

From 40k... debonair Chessmaster, Faux Affably Evil to the max, can play anyone, adapts his schemes like there's no tomorrow... and allows a society of hedonistic rapists and slavers to fester and take as much of the galaxy as they can.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#18041: Apr 27th 2020 at 7:07:01 AM

Now as promised.

Whats the work?

V.E. Schwab's The Villains Series begins with Vicious. It tells the story of two college seniors, Victor and Eli, who discover that near-death experiences can trigger the development of superpowers. However, this leads to a falling out between them, landing Victor in jail, and setting Eli on a quest to kill any superpowered person (called EOs in this setting) he can find. Ten years later, Victor escapes prison with his cellmate, a talented hacker named Mitch. They pick up Sydney, a twelve year old with the ability to raise the dead, and with their help, Victor plans to exact his revenge.

A sequel called Vengeful was released September 2018. It picks up five years later, with the characters from the first book dealing with the aftermath of the first book. It also introduces a new group of EOs with their own goals and vendettas.

Who is Victor Vale?

Designed as a loose mix per Word of God of Doctor Doom and Dexter, Vale is an aspiring university student who desires to become a doctor to assert what he wants : control over his life. Vale is weird....Vale was born with the inability to process emphaty correctly, he can understand it but feeling it is difficult. Anyway during College, Vale becomes friends with Eric "Ever" Cardale, an aspiring student and his total opposite, sensing a kinship with him. The two become close friends and along with their friend Angie start to experiment, discovering EO'S, super-powered beings created when a person experiences a literal death and are revived. Eric eventually experiments with himself and gains healing abilities, Victor becomes jealous of his friend and becomes determined to gain powers of his own, he persuades his friend Angie to help him...only for things to go wrong, leading him to pain powers which lead to her accidental death, Eric finding out by accident calls the cops on him. Victor since as I said before he cant process emphtaty knows he should feel bad for angie dying but he simply isnt able to, and this leads to Eric and him fighting and Victor shot near fatally. Victor is later apprehened by a cop named stell who deals in EO's who covers for Eric while Eric makes it much worse for Victor by lying that he was stealing his work.

Anyway while in prison, Victor desires revenge. For five years in solitary, he calmly meditates and makes sure the gaurds think hes fine using patience and calmness to transfer him to general lock up. Their he befriends a Hacker named Mitch whose life he saves and begins to experiment on the other prisoners to discover the extent of his powers. After five years has passed and hes perfected it, he and Mitch use their skills to escape, on the way out they discover a girl named Sydney whose sister Serena and her sister's boyfriend (whose Eric) had tried to kill her for being an EO with the ability to raise the dead.

Victor discovers Eric has become a religious serial killer in the ten years since hes been in prison who hunts EO's viewing them as imperfections from God and disovers hes made himself a Villain with Good Publicity as the city's hero to cover it. Victor begins to forumale a plan as he becomes close to Sydney who he views as his adoptive daughter. Anyway Victor captures a cop whose one of Eric and Stell's goons and after interogating and torturing him, disovers that Serena is an EO with brainwashing powers which she uses to have the police and public worship Eric and that its unbreakable. So he simply shoots him in the head calmly and gets to work. 1st he finds files on possible EO's before fiding one that will work nicely, then he sends a message to Eric that they have a fight at midnight. In the meantime, Victor appraoches said EO (Dominic) with the ability to teleport and hide in shadows, their he charms him and offers to use his powers to take the pain he feels away if he just helps him. So Mitch is sent against Sirena to lure into a trap, they fight and she eventually uses her powers to make him try and kill himself....only for it not work.

Mitch should know; he had checked it three times to make sure. Now he watched the surprise spread across Serena’s face, watched it turn to confusion, and begin to shift into something harder, but it never made it there, because that’s when the darkness parted. The shadows behind Serena Clarke stirred and drew apart, and two men stepped into being out of nothing. Dominic stood, holding a red gas canister while Victor took a single stride up behind Serena, brought a knife to her throat, and drew it cleanly across.

There was a blossom of red, and her lips parted, but he’d cut deep, and no sound made it out.

And Ulysses stopped up his ears against the siren’s song,” recited Victor, pulling the plugs from his own ears as Serena collapsed to the dirt lot, “for it was death.

“Jesus,” said Dominic, looking away. “She was just a girl.”

Victor looked down at her body. Blood was pooling beneath Serena’s face, glistening and dark. “Don’t be insulting,” he said. “She was the most powerful woman in the city. Aside from Sydney, of course.”

“About Sydney…,” said Mitch, looking down at the dead girl.

From this angle she seemed smaller, and with her face turned like that, her hair caught in the collar of her coat, the resemblance was disturbing.

“What are we going to do about this?”

Dominic set the plastic gas tank on the dirt beside the body.

“Burn the body,” said Victor, closing his knife. “I don’t want Sydney seeing it. And I certainly don’t want her getting her hands on it. The last thing we need is Serena coming back to life.”

Mitch had just taken up the gas canister when a gun fired within the building, lighting up the bones of the high-rise like a camera flash.

Victor tricks eli into a fight nd it seems like Victor has Ben outgambbited as eli's healing factor means he doesn't have a scratch....while Victor is in pieces and tricks eli into killing him right in front of the police who...are no longer brainwashed and just see a totally fine person kill a person they butchered. Eli's apartment has the rest of the evidence of his murders....so he's arrested and has his entire life ruined. Victor didn't just want to kill eli. He wanted to make him suffer and see everything built come falling down. And Victor uses Sydney to resurrect him a few days later. End of Book one.

Now onto Vengeful, Anyway stuff starts to go a bit wrong. Victor has sent Dominic to the EON corporation which is charge of studying and containing EO's as a way to keep tabs on them and Eli whose a prisoner in their cells. Victor's resurrection has caused his powers to weirdly start to short circuit, leading to him seziures and dying briefly over and over again. Victor is determined that he will not go out like this and begins to experiment with various drugs and concoctions, robbing and killing douche drug dealers to gt it. He eventually realises that he needs the this was caused by an EO, so can only be fixed by an EO. He begins to hunt down EO's to test their abilities and if it doesnt work , calmly kills them for two reasons : 1) If he could find them then, then EON will too and his secret will be out 2) The stuff Eon pull on EO's is bad enough that he views a headshot as a mercy when they do get out. Though after his latest kill, he begins to feel genuine worries and doubts about the fact he's slolwy morphing to be as bad as eli.

Anyway he eventually comes to a doctor named Dumont. Victor realises that hes not an EO after all using his intelligence and knowledge of EO's. The doctor reveals EON has kidnapped his family and are using them as hostaes to draw him out, Victor escapes with Dumont (Dumont is a bit surprised that Victor didnt kill him. As Victor says. Their was no need to do it. He only kills people if he deems it neccessary). So Dumont shows him how to get out but reveals they'll hurt his family if they find out he helped him...so Victor has him "kidnapped" and leaves him tied to the wheel parked somewhere so they wont know a thing in a Pet the Dog moment.

Anyway Victor is captured by Stell who reveals theyve released Eli to hunt a new Serial Killer EO named Marcella with the power to rot stuff. Anyway Dominic breaks him out and Victor decides to go after Eli. Victor knows he'll escape and Eli is his responsibility, he created him as a badguy so its his responibilty to put him down because of the sheer damage it would cause. Anyway June, a shapeshifter second-in-command of Marcella warns Victor that Marcella intends to kill Sydney. Anyway Eli engages Marcella while Victor ends up fighting her other co-dragon and force field user Johnathan. Victor knows that if he kills Johnthan it means Marcella is finished but since she threathend Sydney well.. He overloads Johnthan and Eli tricks Marcella into her own defeat.

Anyway Eli is kidapppned by an asshole mad sceintist named Hafferty, who reveals hes created a serum which cures eo abilties for a temporary period, ke kidnaps Victor and uses it on him which also cures his sezires. Eli wakes up and kills Hafferty, and duels Victor. Victor doesnt stand a chance in a fight like this since without their powers : Eli is a strong 22 year old college quarterback build while Victor is thanks to the mutiple dyings a sickly 37 year old. Though he holds his own and before Eli is going to finish him off, Sydneny kills him, saving Victor.

Victor says goodbeye as he know needs to go on thr run for now and wants to keep her and Mitch safe. He'll experiment with the forumla to try and replicate it and cure himself but before that he has Stell and leaves a Catch Me If You Can note to the Eon corportaion. And thats how we end for now. The author has said a continuition is up in the air. In essence, who knows?

Magnificent ?

Naturally. Victor is sauve, polite and just cool. Dude dresses in cool black leather outfits and owns. He has this natural swagger to him desoite his coldness and can be quite the snarker. He's very polite and reserved, rarely raising his voice, doesnt indulge in sadism or needless violence, viewing it as wasteful.

And as a planner. Victor is great. He pulls a ten year long plan to escape using patience and carful planning. Upon disovering Eli's hobbies hes able to dtermine how to totally destroy everything hes built. He's even prepared to die for his goals as hes that much of a determinater. The sequel has more issues pop up but Victor still goes through them like a champ, moving past his pain to find a solution even pulling some great moves of brilliance like figuring out how to beat Johnathan and saving Dumont. Dude is charming and can get people to go along with what he wants.

While he comes close to losing in the end its becuase hes outmuscled rather then outwitted and even then it was after a stressful fight and without his powers. So Im willing to give him some leeway their especially as he bounces back later to declare outright war on Eon. Hes coming for them.

Bastard ? Too much?

Victor is bad even if he's the lighter shade of black in the work compared to Eli and Marcella. He accidently kills his friend , experiments on his fellow prisoners with his pain powers, is willing to use torture to gain information and. Later becomes a Serial Killer himself in a way to cure himself of dying. And his revenge against Eli is also due to Eli for putting him in prison and trying to kill him for something he actually did do. He'd probably be the Big Bad of most other works.

Yet Victor doesn't do any of this with sadism or because he can. He does everything with a plan ans is pragmatic. Needless violence is not his thing. Like with Dumont he won't kill anyone unless he feels he needs to. In the case of EO's he gives his reasons for killing them and makes sure it's as painless as possible headshots compared to others like Marcella who rots people alive. He also does realise that's he's made a mistake and sets out to fix it by stopping eli. A problem he created and he knows he needs to fix it to atone. He understands now he's a badguy but wants to be better.

And he genuinely does care about Sydney. He views her as own daughter and will go out of his way to protect her. He also is genuine friends with Mitch and two get along well. Victor saves his life in prison and given him a life of his own.

He also did genuinely care about Eli even if it's gone now and he views his opponents as worthy opponents.

And frankly he's just so cool. Dude is an expert fighter and is about as badass as mix of Dexter and doom would be that you'd think. A true One-Man Army.

Conclusion ?

I give him a yes.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#18042: Apr 27th 2020 at 7:08:39 AM

[up][up]Does he have any accomplice-ship with these rapists and slavers? If he doesn't have any direct involvement in the detestable crimes than I find that a bit of a stretch to downvote him for.

Edited by username2527 on Apr 27th 2020 at 7:09:33 AM

Riley1sCool Since: Dec, 2014
#18043: Apr 27th 2020 at 7:08:54 AM

See, I've always been of the opinion that being too monstrous for Magnificent Bastard status and being cool and entertaining isn't mutually exclusive. Relius strikes me as an example where he's too evil for MB status but still pretty charismatic and intelligent.

[tup] to Victor. "A combination of Doctor Doom and Dexter." Well, that sounds like an interesting story.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#18044: Apr 27th 2020 at 7:18:34 AM

As we discussed, yes there Mir.

User, We are not re-litigating Vect. He uses this society to maintain his own personal power and he's a Complete Monster in the setting of 40k, he has slaves himself and the best thing you can say is he doesn't seem to be a rapist himself. This was all discussed and I'm shutting it down before it gets out of the water.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#18048: Apr 27th 2020 at 7:31:20 AM

Keep Mir's EP in mind as well but anyone else for Relius?

DarkPhoenix94 Since: Jan, 2015
#18049: Apr 27th 2020 at 7:34:27 AM

Strange is in the drafts now, thanks.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#18050: Apr 27th 2020 at 7:38:10 AM

Thank you.

On that note... question for the thread: how do we want to categorize Strange? He's in a crossover from many different mediums so I can't use my regular sectioning. I was thinking maybe just:

And put it at the top?

Actually maybe since it's mostly MCU and ''Harry Potter it might be cleaner to go:

Edited by 43110 on Apr 27th 2020 at 10:58:07 AM


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