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Cleanup thread: Magnificent Bastard

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous post 
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

  • Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.

  • What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
    • Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
    • Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
    • Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
    • Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
    • Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.

  • What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.

  • Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.

  • What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
    • Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
    • Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
    • List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
    • The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.

  • How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.

  • What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.

  • What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.

  • What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.

  • Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.

  • What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.

  • Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.

  • What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.

  • Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.

Thread rules

When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.

Resolved items

In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.

However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.

This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.

Definitely an MB

Definitely not an MB

  • South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#16877: Apr 2nd 2020 at 8:07:23 PM

Here is my 2nd Venture Brothers candidate and one that came to especially after the few Catwoman effort posts. May I present the show's resident Femme Fatale Soviet mercenary.

Who is Molotov Cocktease?

Molotov Cocktease is a Russian professional assassin who serves as the rival and primary love interest of Brock Samson, Dr Venture's bodyguard. Her name, a portmanteau of molotov cocktail and cock tease, should tell you a lot about her personality as she is a Fiery Redhead who loves manipulating Brock by flaunting her looks yet always showing off her titanium-reinforced chastity belt when he actually tries to go beyond second base. She and Brock first met at the Olympics where he and his first partner were trying to protect an ambassador that Molotov and her father were trying to assassinate for the KGB. While distracting Block with her gymnastics routine, she kills his partner while Brock kills her father. This sets off a years long sadomasochistic relationship between the two which leads to such things as tying Brock to a bed and setting the room on fire to Brock cutting out her eye and keeping it as a souvenir. Yet throughout all of this, Brock still genuinely loves her even if her own feelings aren't quite so mutual.

Getting into her actions in the show itself, she is first introduced in the first season when the Ventures go to a Disney-esque theme park called Brisbyland. This naturally leads them into trouble and Brock is drugged and left to die in a tar pit. Molotov rescues him and, after a violent fight and makeout session, she agrees to help him rescue the Venture family. After helping Brock to infiltrate the theme park, she immediately ditches him to go for her actual objective. She confronts Brisby, a Walt Disney expy, and tricks him into setting himself on fire before making off with he pet panda, where it is revealed her whole objective was to capture the panda and return it to its real owner, David Bowie a.k.a the Sovereign. Her next appearance in season two shows just how far Brock actually trusts her as he asks her to babysit the Ventures while he's off on another mission. She does so out of respect for Brock, but simultaneously tries to sabotage his job with them by putting all three through rigorous combat training to make them rely less on Brock. When Brock returns and refuses to leave with her, she leaves disappointed and truly begins looking down on Brock as no longer being the kind of man she was attracted to.

Molotov's true ability to manipulate is fully shown in the third season two part finale as all the events of the episodes were caused by her. She hires three world famous assassins to kill Brock and makes him believe it was the OSI who were actually out to get him. It turns out that Brock's former mentor Colonel Hunter Gathers had a sex change and joined Molotov's new all female mercenary group: the Black Hearts. Hunter tells Brock in the previous episode that the OSI would be out to kill him if he failed in his assignment to kill Dr Venture for discovering an artifact known as ORB. Obviously, Brock didn't go through with it so it makes him believe the OSI are out to get him. During the first half of the two parter, Brock manages to narrowly avoid death multiple times and kill the three assassins trying to take him out. The last fight leaves an incredibly bloody scene that is followed by Brock and the Ventures being arrested by the LAPD. As a final favor for Samson, Molotov hires "The Cleaner" to dispose of the evidence and free them from all from the precinct. She then speeds off with the Cleaner after saying a farewell to Brock. Later on Brock tricks the OSI and the Monarch's crew into duking it out on the Venture lawn only for the OSI to reveal they were coming to save Brock. This and other events lead Brock to quitting both the OSI and as the Venture bodyguard. The post credits scene reveals Molotov was behind everything to kill off the primary rivals of her new Black Hearts and just so happened to weaken the OSI and free Brock from the what she considered was weakening him in the process.

Following these events, Molotov spends all of season 4 watching over Brock and observing the kind of man he has become. She isn't impressed when she learns that Brock still has a moral compass and has joined a revived SPHINX as a vigilante alongside Hunter Gathers, who is a man again after he revealed he did all that to infiltrate the Black Hearts. Molotov gets the better of him though by disguising herself as a rookie agent for SPHINX and doing everything she can to make life hard for Brock. Ultimately ashamed of Brock for not being the man she first fell in love with, she does everything in her power to hurt him. In the season 4 finale, she reveals to Brock she's become the lover of the villain Monstroso for both his looks and money and manages to free him after he was captured by SPHINX. She reveals that the prostitutes that Dr Venture hired for him two sons' prom are actually all members of the Black Hearts and would kill everyone there if she didn't give an abort code by midnight. A high speed chase ends with her spitefully rejecting Brock for a final time and plummeting over a cliff with Monstroso. Thankfully(?), Dr Venture drugged all the assassin prostitutes with an aphrodisiac that turns them into mutant fly monsters that are quickly dispatched by everyone in attendance.

We finally get to Molotov's final appearance on the show so far in season 5 where it is revealed she faked both her and Monstroso's deaths. Having lost all her Black Hearts and realizing the whole Monstroso thing was drying up, she ultimately sells out Monstroso to the OSI and becomes a double agent under their employ. After hiding out on a yacht, they are both captured by the OSI, who recently reabsorbed the SPHINX members. After being taken to the OSI hover base, Molotov "escapes" and kills several OSI agents on board who are revealed to be double agents working for the Guild. Just as Brock defeats her and about to kill her for good, Hunter reveals they hired her as a mercenary and would continue to pay her as a double agent to do all the OSI's dirty business. This was her last appearance and she isn't seen in seasons 6 or 7, but who knows who future seasons will bring.

'Is she magnificent?

Molotov is every bit the Femme Fatale and is incredibly charming and seductive. Her outfit, appearance, and mannerisms are enough to make most men immediately attracted to her, which works well for her in her line of business. As I've shown, she is a master manipulator that has managed to come out on top of every encounter better off than she was. Even temporary defeats only lead to her performing betrayals and manipulations to get back into a position of power.

Is she a bitch?

You better believe it. Molotov is a cold-hearted mercenary at heart and willing to betray or hurt anyone to stay on top. While she at first is shown to genuinely love Brock, she ultimately moves on when he begins developing a moral compass and moves away from the brutal berserker she was attracted to. Her best display of bitchery is her willingness to hurt Brock by having the innocent people at the Venture prom murdered by her assassins. Molotov is squarely on the Heel–Face Revolving Door but is ultimately not a good person.

Any mitigating factors?

While Molotov is obviously a very sexual character, her crimes never devolve into anything truly depraved or horrific, and, while she can be quite petty, she never devolves into a Smug Snake that the audience would truly detest.

As for the competition, she's still nowhere near the level of big players like the Sovereign, the Investors, or Killinger but she damn well makes uses of her own charisma and intelligence to use get on top of any situation she's in despite having no real resources like an evil organization at her beck and call or magic powers.

Final Verdict?

I think Molotov deserves a [tup].

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#16878: Apr 2nd 2020 at 8:15:59 PM

I'm giving an [tup], it's just having watched Operation PROM, I've always wondered whether or not Molotov was bluffing about her assassins being the prostitutes, mostly because earlier in the night she had threatened one who was making out with Brock, and the person in question didn't seem to recognize her. This is just something for the writeup, since if she's telling the truth, that's a point in her favor, if she's bluffing that's a point in her favor.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16879: Apr 2nd 2020 at 8:21:40 PM

Another winner. Also might be a winner for best MB name [lol]

Edited by 43110 on Apr 2nd 2020 at 11:24:58 AM

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#16880: Apr 2nd 2020 at 8:31:27 PM

[up][up]We never hear about the Black Hearts again, so I'm assuming they were the prostitutes who died at the prom. It makes sense that one of her assassins would play along with her threats.

Anyways, I can't think of any other contenders from the show. Colonel Gathers and General Triester aren't enough of bastards and all the other villains don't quite hit the same sweet spot. I was considering Wide Wale, but I don't thing he does quite enough manipulating, and Phantom Limb goes way too off the deep end.

Edited by LoreDeluxe on Apr 2nd 2020 at 8:36:42 AM

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#16882: Apr 2nd 2020 at 8:54:45 PM

Molotov Cocktease? That’s too hilarious a name.

Based on the EP, [tup] to Franco.

I’ll cool it on edits for a while.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Apr 2nd 2020 at 8:55:08 AM

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#16884: Apr 2nd 2020 at 10:41:02 PM

Hey I just noticed something about the subpages. Theater is our smallest subpage at 10 people but on the Other Media subpage, Fan Works, Music, and Visual Novels all have more people in them. Does this mean we should make pages for them?

lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#16885: Apr 2nd 2020 at 10:58:37 PM

Theater will have one more with Franco added.

  • Magnificent Bastard: Franco DiFortunato is the Affably Evil Wicked Fairy Godfather who wagers Lady Tremaine and her daughters' livelihoods on whether or not they can stop Cinderella from marrying Prince Charming by going back in time. Flirting with Lady Tremaine and cajoling the family into accepting his deal with a catchy Villain Song, he uses his magic to shrink Cinderella, then makes Anastasia and Drizella graceful despite his doubts at whether his magic would be strong enough, in the updated show also wiping the Prince's memories and making the slipper fit Anastasia. When Cinderella and the Prince are reunited, Franco gleefully makes the Tremaines his servants for eternity, then leaves to help the Wicked Queen from Snow White. Charismatic and cunning, Franco is never defeated and is pleased with the outcome as he sets off to make another deal.

Edited by lalalei2001 on Apr 2nd 2020 at 11:02:33 AM

The Protomen enhanced my life.
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#16886: Apr 2nd 2020 at 11:33:12 PM

[tup] Molotov

New proposal, from the film adaptations of Night Watch (Series).

Who's the candidate?

Zavulon, head of the Dark Others in Moscow.

What does he do?

Hundreds of years ago, the Light and the Dark went to all-out war. Gesar, head of the Light, realized that the battle would destroy both sides, so he came to negotiate with Zavulon. The two decided that the Light and Dark would leave each other alone, letting every Other choose which faction they would join, and each set up an organization to make sure the other followed through. However, both were biding their time for the coming of an immensely powerful Other to sway to their respective sides.

Cut to 2004, where the truce has been going well for centuries, until the signs of the Great Other start showing up. Zavulon has a vampire couple lure the child, named Yegor, to him, but the boy is rescued by Night Watch agent Anton Gorodetsky, who kills the guy vamp. This pisses Zavulon off enough to try and strangle Anton to death with a mystical chain, his nemesis only surviving because Gesar intervenes.

After Anton manages to stop a magical disaster from wiping out Moscow, the girl vamp captures Yegor. Anton manages to convince her to let him go, but Zavulon confronts them. After he and Anton get in a fight, Zavulon reveals to Yegor that Anton is his father, and tried to cause a magical muscarriage when his mother was pregnant. Yegor, rightfully livid, goes with Zavulon and jpins the Dark.

A couple years later, Yegor has become an impulsive Serial Killer of humans. When he loses his hat fleeing from the Night Watch, Zavulon tries to get Anton to get him the evidence before the psychics trace him. Anton refuses, so Zavulon places a hit on him, ultimately framing him for murder when he learns Anton switched bodies to avoid getting caught. He then uses the terms of the treaty to force Gesar to turn him over, only failing because Anton's girlfriend Svetlana attacks them, and threatens war if the Night Watch doesn't let the Day Watch hunt him down.

Eventually, Anton gets his body back, and confromts Zavulon at Yegor's birthday party. It's revealed that the real killer was a vampire whose son Zavulon promised to make human if he did the deed. The vamp gives himself up to the Inquisition, but the son attacks Zavulon. He places the son in a dancing motion, deftly forcing the knife into the man's heart, and throws both of them out a window. While he lets the son fall to his death, Zavulon uses his magic to float down gently.

As it turns out, all of this was part of a plan to get Svetlana (who is also a Great Other) and Yegor to fight, as one of them spilling the other's blood will start the qar back up. Svetlana does show up, and the fight goes precisely as planned. Chaos erupts as Light and Dark come to blows for the first time in centuries, Zavulon relishing in the chaos. However, Anton uses the Chalk of Fate, a powerful artifact he's spent the film hunting for, to turn time back to 1992 and reject the initial miscarriage spell, hoping to live his life as a normal and not drag Yegor and Svetlana into this mess in the first place. The film ends with Gesar and Zavulon betting that Anton and Svetlana will recognize each other on the street, with Zavulon paying up when he loses.

Intelligence? Charm?

He's a master manipulator who has spent centuries playing the political game, regularly coming out on top. The only thing that stopped his plan from succeeding was a Cosmic Retcon.

Thinking on his feet?

Zavulon explicitly states that he never cries over his mistakes, and any time anything goes wrong in-film he either accepts it or manages to turn the situation so he comes out on top anyways. Even when his main plot fails he laughs it off.

How bastard is he?

He wants to make a cold war hot again, and manipulates an emotional teenager to do so, but he seems to actually care for the kid, and his motive is more being a Blood Knight than anything related to bigotry. He never does anything genocidal or rapey either.

The character sheet says that he's bigoted against Ukrainians and Lithuanians, but that's book only and doesn't show up in the film at all.

Competition?

He has spent centuries playing politics with Gesar, who can hold his own against Zavulon, but he literally wins in the end before the Reset Button is pushed through no fault of his own.

Verdict?

[tup]

Klavice (Elder Troper)
#16887: Apr 3rd 2020 at 1:02:42 AM

I thought Visual Novels only had 3 others not counting the four Ace Attorney examples? I think a new page is only created when it clogs up the main page, and if all of those had a page, Other Media would cease to exist. Zavulon looks like a keeper though.

Edited by Klavice on Apr 3rd 2020 at 1:03:32 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#16888: Apr 3rd 2020 at 2:13:16 AM

[tup]Moltov and Zavulon

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#16889: Apr 3rd 2020 at 3:32:28 AM

[tup] to Zavulon

Edited by G-Editor on Apr 3rd 2020 at 12:32:37 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#16890: Apr 3rd 2020 at 4:46:11 AM

[tup] to Molotov Cocktease and Zavulon.

Morgenthaler Since: Feb, 2016
#16891: Apr 3rd 2020 at 5:34:08 AM

  • The Hunt for Red October: Captain Marko Ramius is a genius Soviet naval tacticician known as the "Vilnius Schoolmaster" for having trained many USSR naval officers. Becoming disillusioned with the Soviet cause after the death of his wife, Ramius uses the launch of the Red October prototype nuclear submarine and its silent "caterpillar drive" to defect to the United States with the rest of his officer staff after murdering The Political Officer by making it look an accident and assuring the crew about the "secret nature" of their mission. Ramius' tactical insight allows him to evade both the Soviet and US navies until he can make contact with Jack Ryan, a CIA analyst who managed to decipher Ramius' real intentions. After evacuating the crew by faking a reactor meltdown and disposing of a GRU stowaway, Ramius manages to turn an enemy Soviet submarine's torpedo against itself and successfully defects with the Red October in tow.
  • Rise of Empires: Ottoman: Sultan Mehmet II, The Conqueror, is an Ottoman prince who ascends the throne after the death of his father Murad II. Descended from both Byzantine nobility and Ottoman warlords, Mehmet sets out to realize his ancestor Osman's dream of conquering Constantinople. Ensuring the fealty of his late father's vizier Halil Pasha to unite the empire, Mehmet orders the construction of great cannons to pummel the city with artillery bombardments to weaken the walls, and has his army build a path through the mountains north of Constantinople to move his navy across land to outmaneuver the Romans. Meanwhile, his beloved stepmother and ally Mara Brankovic keeps in contact with Mehmet from the Serbian court to apprise him of any alliance of Christian states buiding up around him. Feeling a genuine admiration for his arch-enemy Giovanni Giustiniani, Mehmet tries to offer him lordship over the Ionian islands if he joins the Ottomans. Ultimately, Mehmet's determination and sheer will secures a breach of the Roman walls, as he takes the city and converts it into the new capital of the empire, while ridding himself of the trappings of the past by executing Halil Pasha for conspiring against him.

Edited by Morgenthaler on Apr 3rd 2020 at 5:49:07 AM

You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16893: Apr 3rd 2020 at 6:09:30 AM

@ papyru, I’ll leave that to the thread to decide.

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#16894: Apr 3rd 2020 at 7:03:02 AM

Here's the actual numbers on the page

Fan Works: 21 Music: 15 Visual Novels: 13 The Rest: 17

For reference our next smallest page is Tabletop games at 34

Edited by papyru30 on Apr 3rd 2020 at 8:19:06 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16895: Apr 3rd 2020 at 7:10:44 AM

Anyone have any thoughts there? I guess technically putting Theatre into it would be an option but I don't want it turning into a very vast "all the other shit" page. I'd be open to a split or just leaving it.

Also lala, add your thing to the drafts.

Edited by 43110 on Apr 3rd 2020 at 10:19:51 AM

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#16896: Apr 3rd 2020 at 8:06:13 AM

[tup] to Zavulon.

Should think about this.

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#16897: Apr 3rd 2020 at 8:07:05 AM

I found that there have been a ton of unapproved edits to the kingdom hearts YMMV

  • Magnificent Bastard:
    • Xemnas, the Nobody of Xehanort, founded Organization XIII to find worthy vessels for his own Heart. In doing so, he lied to its members into believing that they had lost their Hearts forever, in the hopes of keeping them empty and under his control. To fill them with his essence, Xemnas sought to create Kingdom Hearts by stealing the Hearts Sora released with his Keyblade. When Sora created a Nobody called Roxas, Xemnas recruited him and cloned him to create Xion so he could exploit Sora’s power as much as possible. Even when Roxas and Xion defected, Xemnas simply went back to relying on a revived Sora to collect Hearts for him. Ultimately foiled only because of Ansem the Wise’s intervention, Xemnas later returns thanks to Time Travel, becoming a key member of the Real Organization XIII. Staving off usurpers at every turn with a ruthless lack of emotion, Xemnas is finally defeated for good, lamenting that his first emotion in years was loneliness. In his final words, he expresses admiration for Sora for having the strength to bear the "pain" of having a Heart. A brilliant mind with a stoic yet affable demeanour, Xemnas proves himself a deadly and devious adversary.
    • Axel, the Nobody of Lea and number VIII of Organization XIII, is a quick-witted and smooth-spoken "fixer" for the Organization responsible for silencing those who try to betray Xemnas. Axel acts as a mole for Larxene and Marluxia's scheme, killing loose ends like Vexen and Zexion with an impenetrable smile on his face, while manipulating Sora's group, Namine, and the Riku Replica, eventually dismantling Marluxia's scheme in preparation for his and Saïx's own attempt to seize power from Xemnas. Axel shows humanity and depth unique for a Nobody far earlier than most of his comrades, bonding fiercely with Xion and Roxas, and once his love for them overrides his loyalty to the Organization, Axel goes turncoat. When his attempt to take Roxas from Sora back fails, Axel decides to help him instead, sacrificing his own life to save Sora and paving the way for Lea to ally with the heroes against Xehanort's overlapping scheme. Always ready with a quip and a smile for any occasion, Axel leaves little room for wonder as to how the fandom memorized his name so universally.
    • Master Xehanort, the true Big Bad, Man Behind the Man and Greater-Scope Villain of every game up until Kingdom Hearts 3. Master Xehanort’s goal is to forge the X-Blade to access the power of Kingdom Hearts. And boy, does he have a LOT of plans and backup plans for this purpose. First, he tries to forge it by playing three young keyblade apprentices and their master like fiddles, which ends up with him killing the master, sacrificing another to successfully forge the X-blade, using a second one as a new vessel for himself and almost causing the third one’s death. His first plan almost worked and was barely foiled by one of the aforementionned apprentices shattering Xehanort’s first attempt at making an X-Blade. Does Xehanort let that stop him? Nope. Xehanort knew that his defeat was a possibility and arranged several backup plans just in case. He puts up several new plans via his other incarnations (especially Ansem, Xemnas and His Time-Travelling Younger Self, who themselves are Magnificent Bastards in their own right), which are all foiled by Sora and his friends. Does Xehanort let that stop him? Nope. Instead, Xehanort manages to work his past failures into elements for a new plan, thus profiting and learning from his past defeats. By destroying Ansem and Xemnas, the heroes have ensured Master Xehanort’s return (which was All According to Plan) and he teams up with multiple incarnations of himself via time travel to exact one last plan to forge the X-Blade. However, Sora and his friends defeat all of his other incarnations, leaving only Master Xehanort left. Does Xehanort let that stop him? Nope. As it turns out, Xehanort was counting on Sora and his fellow guardians of light defeating his other selves. However, at the end, it still wasn’t enough to allow Xehanort to forge the X-Blade and the heroes know what Xehanort is planning, so they don’t want to fight Xehanort out of fear that if they do fight him, he’ll get the X-Blade and he’ll win. Does Xehanort let that stop him? You already know how this song and dance goes. Master Xehanort again anticipated that the heroes would figure out his plan, but he came prepared just in case...with Kairi as a hostage. He makes the heroes fight his last other incarnations, then he kills Kairi to enrage Sora and make him attack, this giving Xehanort exactly what he needs and his plan ends up succeeding, which finally gets him the X-Blade. Thankfully, it was a temporary victory and the heroes manage to make a comeback, but it was still a really close call. A genuine master of Xanatos Speed Chess and and proficient, Crazy-Prepared Manipulative Bastard who always had a craptillion backup plans and who always knew how to play his enemies like violins, Master Xehanort was an ambitious and powerful keyblade master who embodied well the traits of his beloved Darkness: ambition, cunning, deception, manipulation and best of all, Hammyness.
      • If his younger self (who is simply just known as “Young Xehanort”)’s actions in Kingdom Hearts DDD are any indication, he’s been a Magnificent Bastard since he was Sora, Riku and Kairi’s age.
    • Luxu, the Master Of Masters’s sixth apprentice. For starters, so far, he’s the only villain in the series to have WON. His role, which was assigned to him by his master, was to ensure that a second keyblade war happened by manipulating a keyblade master devoted to darkness and a keyblade master devoted to light to assemble warriors of light and darkness to wage war in the Keyblade Graveyard once more to spark a second keyblade war. It works even better than even Luxu himself had anticipated. And the best part? Nobody suspected that this whole time, he was the one manipulating both sides...or that he was Xigbar all along. Neither Sora or Xehanort even came close to suspecting that Xigbar wasn’t who he said he was and Xigbar/Luxu got away scot free with having gotten exactly what he wanted out of all this madness. He’s also the true master of the “No Name” keyblade, was just letting Xehanort temporarily use it and could’ve taken it back anytime he wanted. He then later faked his death to make everyone turn their attention away from him, he takes back his keyblade after Xehanort’s final defeat and he gets away scot-free. Luxu was playing Master Xehanort like a puppet all along under the guise of Xigbar and made Xehanort think that he was manipulating Xigbar, when in fact it was the other way around all along. Without him, Master Xehanort would’ve had a much harder time starting a second keyblade war to forge the X-Blade. An ancient and powerful keyblade master who is thousands of years old, Luxu has been pulling strings from behind the scenes and in the end, he’s the only Kingdom Hearts villain so far to have completely succeeded and gotten exactly what he wanted. And to this day, nobody, not even the smartest characters like Yen Sid, Merlin or Mickey know the truth or even suspect that “Xigbar” is still alive...or that Luxu even exists and got exactly what he wanted.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#16898: Apr 3rd 2020 at 8:08:47 AM

First up size.

Secondaly I swear we cut Xenahort for his incoherent motivations and actions.

Luxu/Braig probably counts but I don't think anyone's done his ep yet. Would be open to it.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#16899: Apr 3rd 2020 at 8:10:48 AM

I fixed it on the YMMV and PMed the troper who added Luxu and Xehanort

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#16900: Apr 3rd 2020 at 8:17:26 AM

The only thing stopping me from EP'ing Luxu - or the Master of Masters for that matter - is that we still don't know what they really want.

Otherwise they are very good candidates. Their arcs are also ongoing, likely to be explored further in the next game. So that's something to look forward to.


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