TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Cleanup thread: Magnificent Bastard

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous post 
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

  • Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.

  • What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
    • Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
    • Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
    • Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
    • Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
    • Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.

  • What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.

  • Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.

  • What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
    • Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
    • Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
    • List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
    • The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.

  • How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.

  • What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.

  • What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.

  • What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.

  • Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.

  • What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.

  • Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.

  • What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.

  • Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.

Thread rules

When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.

Resolved items

In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.

However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.

This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.

Definitely an MB

Definitely not an MB

  • South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#16727: Mar 28th 2020 at 4:45:24 PM

Thanks, 43, for the PM.

  • Angels of Death: Reverend Abraham Gray is the B2 floor master and the Tower's creator, having done so after becoming repulsed by evil actions committed in God's name, so he could himself could experience being God. In Episode 0, Gray has Dr. Daniel Dickens and Catherine Ward recruit killers to serve as the masters of the Tower's floors and kidnaps people to be put through the Tower's Deadly Game. Though sinister in intent, Gray truly cares for his followers like family. When an amnesiac Rachel Gardner comes to him for medicine for Zack Foster, Gray puts her through a dangerous trial with the intent to have her confront her past sins. Guiding Zack through floor B1, Gray helps him rescue Ray from Danny and helps her and Zack escape from Danny, resolving to stay behind and die in the collapsing tower for his own sins after realizing his shortcomings.

[down] added one.

Edited by MasterN on Mar 28th 2020 at 4:49:48 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16728: Mar 28th 2020 at 4:46:19 PM

Np bud. Also you've got room for another pothole: I know you love those so didn't want you missing out [lol]

Edited by 43110 on Mar 28th 2020 at 7:47:30 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16729: Mar 28th 2020 at 7:44:09 PM

I'll probably do the batch early in the morning, just a heads up if anyone wants to do some potholing before I do the final edits and such.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16730: Mar 29th 2020 at 6:29:13 AM

Imperial, N, ACW, hit... whoever else like potholes: we good for the batch now?

GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#16731: Mar 29th 2020 at 8:02:52 AM

Another Mafia K'1 Fry and Val-de-Marne EP. This is definitely the candidate I'm least confident in, but I'll let you guys decide.

What's the work?

Fumer un mec (translation : To smoke a guy ; Google translation) is a 2005 song by French-Comorian rapper Rohff (like 113, he's from the Val-de-Marne, and precisely from Vitry-sur-Seine) , from his fourth album Au-Delà De Mes Limites (translation : Beyond my limits), released in 2005. A double album, Au-Delà De Mes Limites went Gold nine weeks after it's release, and Platinum shortly after.

A storytelling song, Fumer un mec deals with someone from a French hood who wants to kill someone else (we're going to call that person "Booba", because Rohff and Booba (whom I've mentioned in my Oxmo Puccino EP) had a huge beef that started in the early 2000s, only grew from there and is still ongoing ; Booba's T.L.T. and Rohff's Wesh Zoulette are especially brutal) who apparently disrespected him. He's unsure of whether or not he should pull the trigger.

Cue two unnamed "advisors" who want him to finally make his choice. An "angel" and a "devil". Like Genius, we're going to call them Housni (as it's Rohff's first name) and Rohff respectively. Housni wants the guy not to kill him and to move on. As for Rohff...

He... Heavily disagrees with Housni.

Who is Rohff? What has he done?

After Housni in the first verse put out several arguments in favor of sparing the target, Rohff takes over the second verse and offer counterarguments, pointing out that if he doesn't pull the trigger, he's going to lose respect in the hood for that, and even kids will disrespect him as well. He pressures the guy into shooting "Booba" dead, telling him to aim directly for his head and not to think of the consequences. He argues that several people who used to roll for the guy were hanging out with "Booba" when the guy wasn't around. Rohff adds that "Booba" used the whole ordeal to gain more respect, and claims to know where "Booba" lives so that they can kill him. He also mentions that "Booba" owes him money, disagrees with Housni's claims that if someone is a murderer, he'll get some form of comeuppance one way or the other, and point out that there's several Karma Houdinis living around him. He advises him to find gloves (to leave no evidence), a bike, a pilot (to quickly escape once the deed is done) and an alibi (just in case the police interrogates him nonetheless).

The third verse sees an exchange of Xanatos Speed Chess between Rohff and Housni, each using their own arguments to pressure the guy into making a choice. This leads to the critical moment, when the guy has "Booba" on gunpoint. Housni desperately tells him not to fire, Rohff pressures him into doing the deed.

Bang.

No need to say who prevailed.

In the outro, Housni laments "Booba"'s death, pointing out that he's going to be mourned, and telling the guy not to try to solve his problems like that ever again. Rohff, before going dormant, reassures the guy, telling him he did a good job, and that if people disrespect him again?

Just awaken Rohff and the issue will be dealt with.

As for the guy himself? No indication he got any comeuppance for the murder!

Is he charming? Intelligent?

Rohff at first merely seems to push the guy into committing murder without thinking of the consequences. However, he then proceeds to offer strong arguments in favor of "Booba"'s murder, bringing up street cred, pointing out that "Booba" was no good man either, pointing out that Karma Houdini is a thing and ironically, tells him to think of the consequences... And to avoid them by hiding evidence.

Thinking on his feet?

The third verse. Pass.

What about the competition?

Housni proved to be an extremely hard debater to beat, but Rohff managed to ultimately sway the guy to his side.

Is he a bastard?

Manipulates and pressures a guy into murdering someone for what is either portrayed as Evil Is Petty on Housni's side, or a Freudian Excuse and Pragmatic Villainy on Rohff's side.

Too much of a bastard?

Reassures nonetheless the guy after committing the deed, telling him that as long as he followed his advice, he'll get away with the murder. And frankly, his rapsheet is generic as hell in terms of heinousness.

Verdict ?

If he actually makes it... First Comorian MB?

Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Mar 29th 2020 at 8:18:12 PM

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16732: Mar 29th 2020 at 9:31:37 AM

Yes there Georgie... I've got an EP of my own ready to go but I'm doing this one joint with Ravok, so I'll wait until he's ready with his part.

For now, here's the batch:

  • JoJo's Bizarre Adventure:
    • Battle Tendency:
      • Kars is the leader of the Pillar Men, a group that seeks the Red Stone of Aja so as to become immune to the sunlight that harms them and reign as the "ultimate lifeforms." Awakening in the present day after centuries of slumber, Kars dispatches his loyal friends Wammuu and Esidisi to search for the Red Stone, and showcases his love for nature and its creatures when he murders a group of men who tried to kill a dog. Manipulating Joseph into assisting him in his quest for the stone by threatening the life of Lisa Lisa, promising to play fair only to use pragmatic tricks to win the day, Kars obtains the Red Stone of Aja, using it to become a god. Kars gives Joseph the fight of his life, as he constantly adapts to each and every thing the Hamon user throws at him, until he is finally outwitted and blasted into space only by sheer luck on Joseph's part.
      • The affable Esidisi is Kars' best friend and the second-in-command of the Pillar Men. Upon confronting Joseph when looking for the Red Stone of Aja, Esidisi quickly proves to be an expert in messing with his opponent, temporarily leaving Joseph unable to get a read on him, and leading to Esidisi nearly killing Joseph with his tactics while praising him for being a Worthy Opponent. Even when Joseph destroys Esidisi’s body, Esidisi reveals his plans went deeper after all, using his surviving brain to possess Suzi Q and mail the gemstone for Kars to pick up. He then shows his conviction to the Pillar Men’s cause by being willing to sacrifice his own life in an attempt to take out the heroes by using the possessed Suzi Q as a boiling blood bomb, earning Joseph’s respect for Esidisi’s devotion to his allies.
    • Stardust Crusaders: N'Doul is a loyal servant of DIO, carrying out assassinations for the vampire due to a respect for and fear of him. Tracking the Stardust Crusaders as they land in Egypt, the blind N'Doul follows them through the mere vibrations of their footsteps in the sand. N'Doul uses his Stand Geb to kill two Speedwagon pilots and lure the Crusaders into a trap, nearly killing them all several times over. Even when the Crusaders think up clever schemes to outsmart their foe, N'Doul stays one step ahead, blinding Kakyoin and severely wounding Avdol in the process. Though beaten by Jotaro by a mere split second, N'Doul kills himself rather than face capture and interrogation, complimenting Jotaro's skills to his last breath.
    • Diamond Is Unbreakable: Yoshikage Kira is a suave, handsome Serial Killer who wants nothing more than to have an "average" existence and live without any distress or worry in his life. Having spent his life specifically seeking third place in any competition or test he took, even planting himself in inconspicuous positions in group photos, just to remain under the radar as neither particularly gifted or flawed, Kira then used his appearance as a normal person to mask his serial killings, murdering women to then take their hands and treat them as "dates" so as to satisfy his hand fetish. Using his Stand, Killer Queen, Kira easily eliminates all evidence of his victims, murders all those who could even possibly stand in his way, and sets numerous traps for Josuke and his friends as they close in on the killer. When seemingly beaten, Kira escapes, kills a man and steals his identity, and gains Bites the Dust, a time-rewinding ability that he uses to murder everyone who could possibly stop him. Even when killed and sent to the afterlife, Kira happily accepts his new "peaceful" existence, only truly losing when the souls of his victims lash out at him and curse him to an eternity of suffering. Though spending much of his time on the run from Josuke, Kira stays one step ahead the whole time, and has such sheer willpower to survive that he unlocks entirely new Stand abilities, a feat nearly unheard of throughout the world.
    • Vento Aureo: Risotto Nero is the leader of La Squadra Esecuzioni, Passione's rogue assassination team. After his team was sent the mutilated corpses of two of their members as a warning, Risotto and his team decide to betray Passione. Finding out about Trish, the Boss' daughter, Risotto comes up with a plan to kidnap her to find out about the Boss' identity. Risotto tracks down the heroes at every turn, torturing a Passione member to reconstruct a photo of their next location when he temporarily loses track of them. Later when all of his men are killed, Risotto hides out at Sardinia, correctly deducing that Trish will be returning there. Upon confronting Doppio, Risotto brings him to near death with a variety of tactics before the Boss tricks Narancia into shooting the unexpected Risotto. However, even upon death's door, Risotto takes control of Aerosmith attempting to have it shoot both him and the Boss to death, a move that even the Boss praises him for.
    • Stone Ocean: Enrico Pucci is a charming priest who was plunged into despair after racists murdered his sister due to his own mistakes, and the extremely unfortunate set of circumstances that brought about her demise drove Pucci to hate the idea of an unforeseen future and "fate." Coming to idolize DIO, Pucci collects the man's thoughts and plans for a new way of life called "Heaven," and, after handily pulling the strings of everyone in Green Dolphin Street Prison—taking time to try to genuinely help the prisoners there even as they attempt to rob him blind—Pucci uses his upgraded Stand "Made in Heaven" to begin his final plan: To force every human being to live out their whole lives, and see the entirety of the universe's lifespan, then relive their lives knowing their and everyone else's fates, this enabling them to never be surprised or broken by life's events, knowing beforehand all that will happen. Pucci is easily the most well-intentioned and genuinely caring Big Bad in the franchise, wanting to simply end the pain that comes with not knowing one's fate, and even while dying a torturous death tries to ensure his "Heaven" will carry on, even at the cost of his own life.
    • Steel Ball Run: The ever-calm, infinitely polite Ringo Roadagain discovered his Stand Mandom after killing a burglar that had slaughtered his family, and with this action, Ringo came to the realization that fighting and near-death experiences harden one's willpower and make them a "true man," and made it his life's goal to both spread this message, and strengthen himself. Sent by President Funny Valentine to track down parts of the Holy Corpse, Ringo lays a trap for any racers of the Steel Ball Run who venture too close to his shack, trapping them in an infinite time loop until they fight him. In one of these fights, Ringo gives his opponent pointers on how to better combat him, only for his opponent to ignore them and get easily taken down by Ringo, who nonetheless thanks his fallen foe for a good fight. Upon confronting Gyro Zeppeli, Hot Pants and Johnny Joester, Ringo duels the trio, outsmarting Hot Pants's attempted sneak attack before capturing Johnny, offering Gyro a chance to walk away unharmed. When Gyro refuses, Ringo gives Gyro one of the hardest fights of his life, culminating in Ringo forcing Gyro to kill him, proclaiming that Gyro has now gained willpower he will need for his coming fights and welcoming him to "the true man's world."
  • Michiko to Hatchin: Once a loudmouthed wannabe gangster kid, Satoshi Batista raised himself up by killing the leaders of the Monstro Preto gang to take control over them himself. A ruthless leader, Satoshi devises a scheme to have rival criminal Michiko Malandro arrested while he executes a former Monstro boss along with his family to avenge a childhood humiliation from the man. Betrayed by his second-in-command, Satoshi outguns him and his henchmen, dispatching them all on his own. An honorable man despite being a brutal criminal, in the end, Satoshi even allows himself be to fatally wounded by taking a shot fired at a little girl.
  • The Assignment (2016): Frank Kitchen is a notorious hitman who has murdered numerous people for money. Forcibly converted into a woman by Dr. Rachel Jane as retribution for killing her brother, Frank seeks vengeance on Jane, killing everyone involved in his surgery before reaching Jane. When Jane captures her, Frank seduces Jane's assistant before killing him and all of Jane's other men, before Frank shoots Jane non-fatally. Frank would then stage the scenario to make it look like Jane's assistant committed the murders and frame Jane for killing her assistant sending Jane to a psychiatric ward, while also cutting all of Jane's fingers off so that Jane will never be able to perform her heinous surgeries on anyone else ever again.
  • Jason Bourne: Heather Lee is the ambitious, but well-meaning, head of the CIA Cyber Ops Division seeking to advance in the ranks of the agency. She first identifies and tracks rogue agent Nicky Parsons as the one who stole the black ops files from Treadstone to Iron Hand, tracks her and and has a small part in her death too. Heather is able to download malware into the files so she can trace them later on and then use a phone in the same room as an encrypted computer to delete the files. Heather seeks to convince Jason Bourne to return to the CIA as a valuable assassin rather than have him killed and when she learns of how corrupt Director Robert Dewey and the Asset are, Heather helps Bourne sneak back to America through Las Vegas. When Heather realizes they are under suspicion, she alerts Bourne, later saves Bourne herself by killing Dewey and then once again tries to take power using her influence with Bourne, only for him to just barely outsmart her.
  • Angel Mage: Liliath was a nun driven to despair when her attempts to summon her angel-lover Phalinel into a human host resulted in many deaths and lead the survivors from the destruction before entering a sleep for hundreds of years until she is able to revive her beloved. Manipulating control of a group called "The Resenters" who are descendants of the Survivors of Ystara for her plans as well as to kill those in her way, Liliath takes the name "Milady" and outwits and kills those within the group who seek to undermine her power. Seducing the Queen with a show of skill and charm, Liliath begins her ritual to revive Phalinel with all the cards in her hand, only stopped by being turned into an angel herself, still getting everything she wanted.
  • Catwoman: Soulstealer: Selina Kyle, aka Catwoman, rose up from illegal street fighter to pay for her sister's medical bills to become a skilled member of the league of Assassins in two years. After discovering a way to use Lazarus pit formula to cure her dying sister, Selina leaves the league and heads back to Gotham City where she starts a crime spree in order to recruit both a skilled biochemist to help her complete it in Poison Ivy and a way to contact The Joker and make a deal with him in Harley Quinn. Starting a massive, flashy crime spree to take control of the criminal underworld and outwitting Luke Fox's attempts to evade her, Selina lets herself get captured eventually, knowing she'll be transferred to Arkham Asylum due to the infamy shes gained and uses Joker and his army to defeat The League of Assassins members who've come for her, by promising it to him, only to backstab him and hand him over to the police. Selina is a cunning, seductive figure who genuinely grows to care for Harley, Ivy and Luke and ends the book succeeding with her plans to save her sister, heading off for her next heist.
  • The Evil Queen, by Gena Showalter: Everly Morrow, after a torrent of ill and abuses from others as well as love for her sister, decides to embrace her title as the legendary "Evil Queen". Everly takes over the kingdom of Sevhun as its new queen after killing her husband who forced her into marriage and exiles the deceased king's daughter, Princess Farrah, later foiling Farrah's attempts to usurp her and runs circles around her. After being captured, Everly bonds with Farrah's brother Roth and plots to escape, all the while using her Adorable Evil Minions to spy on things for her plans. Eventually escaping using said minions to cut off the fingers off one of her jailers, Everly manages to outwit Farrah and has her sealed forever into a glass coffin where she'll end up having to experience her crimes over and over again. Everly ends the book as the only antagonist on top, having left the others in the dust and now gains tremendous powers as well as both a marriage to Roth and control of the kingdom.
  • Parallel Worlds anthology: John Metclaf, from "The Tragedy of John Metclaf", by Yudhanjaya Wijeratne, is an assassin magician known for pulling off skilled hits for the organization known as Management. Feeling guilt over his crimes over the years, Metclaf eventually swaps places with a version of himself from an alternate world to avoid capture and decides to use this second chance to atone, leaving his alternate version to die at the hands of his captors in his place. Metclaf rises as a star and helps make several life changing advancements to the world and when Management attempts to bring him back, shuts them down and makes himself look the hero, all to his adoring public eye.
  • No Good Nick: Nicole "Nick" Franzelli is a teenaged con artist seeking to avenge her father's imprisonment by tricking her way into the Thompson family by claiming to be a Long-Lost Relative. To attain funds for a lawyer for her father, Nick passes off discount wines as expensive vintages and sells stolen art equipment such that it cannot be traced back to her. Gaining the Thompson's love which Nick begins to reciprocate, Nick still resolves to take them down out of bitterness for ruining her father and undermines them in various ways to slander them though she eventually comes to feel guilt and eventually cuts a deal with the police to restore the Thompson's name, remaining tricky even following her change of heart.
  • Strike Back:
    • Vengeance: Craig Hanson is Michael Stonebridge's Arch-Enemy throughout the season. After his brother is killed by Michael during a botched SAS training mission, Hanson retaliated by murdering Stonebridge's wife, Kerry. Not long after, Hanson decided to become a mercenary and auditioned to be part of Karl Matlock's crew. When Matlock refuses to hire him, Hanson single-handedly neutralizes Matlock's security detail and sneaks into Conrad Knox's mansion; Knox then convinces Matlock to hire him. As Knox's mercenary, Hanson assisted Knox with his schemes, using all of his skills to elude Section 20, attempt to kill Michael several times, and eliminate any law enforcement officers or soldiers in his path. After Knox's initial plans fail, Hanson helps Knox escape minutes before he can be captured. After getting arrested, Hanson escapes from police custody and later murders Matlock when he tries to abandon Knox, taking his place to set off nuclear bombs in Johannesburg. During his final confrontation with Stonebridge, Hanson tries to convince him that they're Not So Different before attempting to kill him.
    • Shadow Warfare: Leo Kamali is the true mastermind behind all the events of the season. Longing for revenge over his wife's death, Kamali became an undercover CIA agent working for a mysterious terrorist known as al-Zuhari. While undercover, Kamali murdered Liam Baxter and supplied al-Zuhari's coconspirators with the weapons and funds needed to continue their illegal operations. After being captured by Section 20, Kamali escapes, and later reveals his CIA identity once he's recaptured. While working for Section 20, Kamali frequently played both sides to his advantage, engineering the deaths of al-Zuhari's wife and Rachel Dalton, the bombing of a British embassy, the death of his CIA handler, and the torture or deaths of various soldiers and law enforcement agents. Upon discovering al-Zuhari planned on creating weaponized smallpox, Kamali acquired a sample before fabricating his own death so he could proceed with his schemes. Once he had the smallpox, Kamali intended on releasing the virus into Ramstein Air Base to cause an outbreak in America. When his plans fail, Kamali instead tries to release the virus in Berlin.
  • SIMULACRA: The titular Simulacra is an intelligent Eldritch Abomination that seeks to absorb humanity into itself to create a utopia. Disguising itself as its prior victims on the dating app Spark to lure in new victims, the Simulacra poses as James Aulner to lure in Anna. When the player finds Anna's phone and tries to find her, the Simulacra watches the player and eventually reveals itself, remaining polite and eloquent as it explains itself, before giving the player the choice to rescue either Anna or Taylor. Three of the endings result in the Simulacra deceiving the player and leaving Anna and Taylor at its mercy; but if the player themselves posed as Anna and deceived several characters beforehand, the Simulacra recognizes the player as a Worthy Opponent and willingly releases Anna and Taylor, before parting with a chilling reminder that they will never leave the player's side.
  • Edelgard von Hresvelg is the leader of the Black Eagle house and heiress to the Adrestian Empire, as the sole surviving heir and successor to her father Ionius IX. Edelgard kickstarts the plot by acting as the Flame Emperor to have the heirs apparent of the other nations, Dimitri Alexandre Blaiddyd of Faerghus and Claude von Riegan of Leicester, assassinated by bandits. Edelgard's goal is to dismantle the Church of Seiros, which she views as corrupt and after preparing behind the scenes for a year, she declares war on the church, forcing everyone's hand, as she marches towards her grand ambitions. On the Crimson Flower route, Edelgard sways the reincarnation of the goddess Sothis, Byleth Eisner, to her cause, executes or exiles Claude, slays Dimitri, kills Rhea, Archbishop of the Church and daughter of the goddess, and conquers the entire continent of Fódlan. On the other routes, after being bested, Edelgard demands to be execution so that the war can end. Despite Edelgard's cold and calculating demeanor and seeming perfectionist attitude, those who have earned her respect, such as Byleth, are treated to a much warmer side of her. In the end, Edelgard succeeds or almost succeeds in bringing Fódlan to its knees, her actions pave the way for the societal reforms she dreamed of, and she removes the corrupt influence of "those who slither in the dark".
  • Star Wars: The Clone Wars: Cad Bane is one of the top bounty hunters of the galaxy following the death of Jango Fett. In his first chronological appearance of the series, Bane is hired by Darth Sidious to steal a holocron from the Jedi Temple. Bane succeeds in this goal using Cato Parasitti and Todo 360 as distractions. Needing a Jedi to unlock the holocron, Bane forces Anakin Skywalker to assist him by threatening his Padawan Ahsoka. Later on, Bane flawlessly infiltrates the Galactic Senate to force Chancellor Palpatine to free Ziro the Hutt. During a mission to recapture Ziro, Bane is able to hold his own in a fight against Obi-Wan Kenobi and Quinlan Vos. Ruthless and methodical, Bane also displays a noble side when he saves Obi-Wan, disguised as "Rako Hardeen", from a rigged challenge in the Box.

Anything else?

Edited by 43110 on Mar 30th 2020 at 4:52:29 AM

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#16733: Mar 29th 2020 at 10:58:41 AM

Sorry, I'd have made some edits myself, but my computer's been extremely uncooperative as of late. I think Our Vampires Are Different would work at "the Pillar Men".

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16734: Mar 29th 2020 at 11:01:54 AM

Only reason I'm a little reluctant to put that is because JoJo has actual vampires in it, whom the Pillar Men actually use as a food source.

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#16735: Mar 29th 2020 at 12:36:10 PM

[up] Alright then, I'll try to think of something else.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16736: Mar 29th 2020 at 3:05:05 PM

No worries, I'll submit it tomorrow, so you can just add any you'd like in the drafts and I'll re-pull from it.

Also do you have any thoughts on Georgie's candidate?

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#16738: Mar 29th 2020 at 5:43:38 PM

Question on Emhyr var Emries from the Witcher franchise. Does the fact the he gets outwitted in most endings of the Witcher 3 affect his candidacy? In an ending where Geralt has no input on the political situation, the literally insane Rodavid manages to outsmart him, and endings where Radovid dies has Sigismund outplay Emhyr. My point being in that for Emhyr to come out on top, the player has to go out of his way to set up his victory, yet he loses and dies in every other scenario.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#16739: Mar 29th 2020 at 6:00:11 PM

He loses a lengthy military campaign to two of the greatest strategic geniuses of the age. They don't outplay him in a mix of gambits where he's made to look the fool.

Radovid may be insane, but he's a strategic mastermind and maybe the greatest military commander of the age. A huge deal is made on that.

Edited by Lightysnake on Mar 29th 2020 at 6:00:41 AM

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#16740: Mar 29th 2020 at 6:11:11 PM

So we're willing to cut some slack on that then?

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#16741: Mar 29th 2020 at 6:13:03 PM

I'd argue such, especially given the depth of his successes.

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#16742: Mar 29th 2020 at 6:14:35 PM

It just stuck out to me since getting the ending where he wins is such a pain in the ass to get.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16743: Mar 29th 2020 at 6:18:54 PM

MBs aren't perfect, if a character is blatantly outclassed and made to look like an idiot, that can be an issue but having discussed this case with Lighty, I concur the whole picture of the character makes up for it. Remember on the flip side we're against Villain Sues going up since if they just crush everyone with ease it's more likely the audience will be calling bullshit on how smoothly everything goes for them.

Well y'all are here mind giving Georgie some input?

Edited by 43110 on Mar 29th 2020 at 9:19:24 AM

jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#16745: Mar 29th 2020 at 6:24:15 PM

Cut this from the Ymmv.Burn Notice:

  • Magnificent Bastard: Anson, the man who was behind everything that happened to Michael so far. He not only was responsible for Michael's burn notice, he created the organization Michael was a member of in the first place. He burned Michael so that he could use him and his spy training without any kind of government restriction. He survived Michael's rather considerable rampage against his organization. He released Larry from prison and led Larry to him so that he could play the role of hostage, manipulating Fiona into killing Larry, along with a bunch of other innocents, giving him leverage over Michael. And least of all... he helped create Michael the Spy in the first place by killing Frank, Michael's father. And through all of that, he was never even a blip on Michael's radar. In fact, Michael didn't even know he existed until the middle of season five! Feel free to applaud his genius at your leisure.

Also thinking on it we have Rollo Goodlove from The Boondocks. My memory of him is more that he's a caricature of Al Sharpton and not a flattering one. His debut appearance ends with him being shot at. I feel like were supposed to think of him as a snake, not a fox.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16746: Mar 29th 2020 at 6:51:24 PM

Thanks J and Scraggle, G... what say you there?

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#16747: Mar 29th 2020 at 6:53:58 PM

[tup] Rohff

Edited by DemonDuckofDoom on Mar 29th 2020 at 6:54:12 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#16748: Mar 29th 2020 at 7:17:10 PM

[tup] to Rohff

As for Rollo I don't think that one scene where he got shot would take away from his magnificence. I mean Rollo tends to act slyly but are all MBs usually sly by nature. Even when facing obstacle gets back up and thinks on the fly, which usually ends with him victorious, is genuinely charming, is popular with the fanbase, and the show has many more antagonists far worse than Rollo in terms of actions and personality (all the Ed Wunclers, Stinkmeaner, and Uncle Ruckus just to name a few). I mean if people think that his personality is too off putting to be considered one I guess that is okay, but I certainly don't think Rollo is off-putting and is charming enough to keep. But I just one guy with an opinion, and everyone is certainly entitled to theirs. It's like before where I said my opinion about Leslie Meyers from SP on why I thought she had enough charm to keep, though my argument wasn't good enough to support her and she ended up getting cut. Hopefully my argument here would be enough to for Rollo. Perhaps Username can also weigh in since he also watched The Boondocks. Anywho what did Scraggle said about Rollo (I didn't see his post on Rollo)

Edited by G-Editor on Mar 29th 2020 at 4:20:49 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#16749: Mar 29th 2020 at 7:41:25 PM

I have seen all of The Boondocks. Rollo is a keep. In a show filled to the brim with vulgar, unlikable bigots who do awful things for petty or just for the fun of it, Rollo's charm does indeed stand out. Being shot at alone doesn't take away from magnificence. Not by a long shot. Pretty much all M Bs are going to be "fox-y" or "sly" to an extent to emphasis their bastard-ness.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16750: Mar 29th 2020 at 8:00:00 PM

I can forgive him for a one-off indignity, especially if it's in his debut appearance.


Total posts: 82,595
Top