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Cleanup thread: Magnificent Bastard

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous post 
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

  • Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.

  • What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
    • Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
    • Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
    • Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
    • Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
    • Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.

  • What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.

  • Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.

  • What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
    • Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
    • Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
    • List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
    • The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.

  • How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.

  • What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.

  • What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.

  • What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.

  • Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.

  • What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.

  • Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.

  • What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.

  • Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.

Thread rules

When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.

Resolved items

In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.

However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.

This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.

Definitely an MB

Definitely not an MB

  • South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM

infernape612 (Green Sprout) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
#16376: Mar 18th 2020 at 3:47:24 PM

Re ~X Vanitas on Fire Emblem, I still have a couple of nitpicks; the entry coldly declares the Church to be corrupt when there's a little more nuance than that, Azure Moon and Verdant Wind are mentioned while Silver Snow isn't, and there are a couple of odd grammatical issues. With that said, I'mma try and combine my version and yours.

After banging my head against the wall to make it perfect, I'm going to post a slightly longer version with more info and more of Tropers/xVanitas' version in it. I'll keep a trimmed-down version in reserve if it's too long.

  • Magnificent Bitch: Edelgard von Hresvelg is the leader of the Black Eagle house and heiress to the Adrestian Empire, as the sole surviving heir and successor to her father Ionius IX. She kickstarts the plot by acting as the Flame Emperor to have the heirs apparent of the other nations, Dimitri Alexandre Blaiddyd of Faerghus and Claude von Riegan of Leicester, assassinated by bandits. Her goal: To dismantle the Church of Seiros, which she views as corrupt. After preparing behind the scenes for a year, she declares war on the church, forcing everyone's hand, as she marches towards her grand ambitions. On the Crimson Flower route, she sways the reincarnation of the goddess Sothis, Byleth Eisner, to her cause, executes or exiles Claude, slays Dimitri, kills Rhea, Archbishop of the Church and daughter of the goddess, and conquers the entire continent of Fódlan. On the other routes, despite being bested, she calmly accepts her execution at the hands of either Byleth (on Silver Snow and Verdant Wind) or Dimitri (on Azure Moon) so that the war can end. Despite her cold and calculating demeanor and seeming perfectionist attitude, those who have earned her respect, such as Byleth, are treated to a much warmer side of her. In the end, she succeeds or almost succeeds in bringing Fódlan to its knees, her actions pave the way for the societal reforms she dreamed of, and she removes the corrupt influence of "those who slither in the dark".

Come to think of it, on Silver Snow specifically her actions actually cause the Church to gain more power since they form the basis of the new ruling government in Fódlan after everyone else dies or vanishes.

Edited by infernape612 on Mar 18th 2020 at 7:08:35 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16377: Mar 18th 2020 at 4:13:04 PM

At this point I'm going to cut slack about the entry's length since she's a big character and trimming seems difficult, so I'm cool with the ~240 that brings her to. I'm going to edit out the part specifying who kills her on which route and just leave it as "Byleth or Dimitri" but I like it otherwise. Anyone else wanna weigh in there?

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#16378: Mar 18th 2020 at 6:14:24 PM

I have returned briefly to say yes to Alice.

I enjoyed the powerful Lesbian Energy.

...no I won't talk about Star Wars unless it gets brought up or I find a candidate from some fanfic or another. I'll leave it at that.

I'm doing mostly OK. Feeling like myself again. But man, that first month or so was hard. I suffered a genuine depressive episode.

Oh, that fanfic I was writing? I think I got too ambitious and will likely not finish it. It probably wasn't gonna be great anyway.

...don't expect too much from me here.

Yes to Prowler, HUNK and Ada by the by.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16379: Mar 18th 2020 at 7:53:53 PM

Welcome back in any case Polar and infernape, vanitas, as I told WHT in PM, thanks for all the work on Edelgard, sorry for the length of time it's taken to get a writeup for her y'all are all happy with but I thank all of you for your tireless attention to detail and flow and hope you'll all be sticking around.

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#16380: Mar 18th 2020 at 8:09:26 PM

Hey guys I'm back from an unintentional 2 week break due to coronavirus keeping me from accessing my laptop.

In any case cut Killian, I've always been iffy on him but I generally don't like trying to cut candidates since I expect people to have already addressed any arguments I could make against them.

Also I mentioned that I wanted to propose Han Solo from the Han Solo Trilogy but I haven't finished the third book yet. I wanted to ask this now so I don't waste time on an EP of him, but I'm not sure if he's enough of a Bastard to count. In the books he's just a smuggler for the Hutts and aside from bribing an empire admiral to loose a battle and sabotaging a slaving operation that's it, he's also largely heroic in his actions outside of being a smuggler. I know that we have character who are only bastards due to being criminals but I'm still not sure on Han.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16381: Mar 18th 2020 at 8:11:12 PM

From what you've said there I'm not feeling he's bad enough unless there's more to it.

Also welcome back, sorry you couldn't get to your computer but I hope you're well otherwise.

Edited by 43110 on Mar 18th 2020 at 11:11:49 AM

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#16382: Mar 18th 2020 at 8:25:31 PM

That's what I thought, unless he does something crazy in the rest of the third book or elsewhere in Legends he doesn't count.

Also I'm healthy, the virus just kept me from being allowed to get my laptop from my dorm since the building is quarantined.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16383: Mar 18th 2020 at 8:33:29 PM

Glad to hear and any feedback on the Char edit while squad works on El?

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Riley1sCool Since: Dec, 2014
#16385: Mar 18th 2020 at 9:40:42 PM

The The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes version of Zemo has a Smug Snake pothole on his character page. Permission to cut? The character is most certainly an MB.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16386: Mar 18th 2020 at 10:20:52 PM

mmm... I remember that was one I really wasn't happy to see go up but if we're really sure he's not a Smug Snake then yeah, cut it. Seriously though, his CM entry gives me more than an eyebrow raise.

Edited by 43110 on Mar 18th 2020 at 1:22:19 PM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#16387: Mar 18th 2020 at 10:28:11 PM

Found this at YMMV.Romance Of The Three Kingdoms:

  • Magnificent Bastard:
    • Cao Cao's the kind of guy who will recite poetry on the Yangtze, murder a nearby lackey who criticizes it, and then bury him with full military honors, all in the same scene. He's unfailingly polite to his guests, even when he's about to have them killed. He's unflappably cool, even after a defeat they'll be making movies about a couple thousand years later. The man is the original magnificent bastard.
    • Zhuge Liang is known as a masterful strategist thousands of years after the time in which he lived. A character holding a fan of crane feathers makes them seem more magnificent, more brilliant etc. by association.
    • Sima Yi reaches this when he gives his speech to Gongsun Yuan's emissary:
      "There are five possible operations for any army. If you can fight, fight; if you cannot fight, defend; if you cannot defend, flee; if you cannot flee, surrender; if you cannot surrender, die. These five courses are open to you, and a hostage would be useless. Now return and tell your master."
    • Zhou Yu whenever Zhuge Liang isn't also in the scene. Puts on an elaborate Feed the Mole plot, complete with a drunken sword dance. Hands Cao Cao his greatest military defeat at Chibi.

I'm genuinely shocked this work hasn't been discussed yet, since it may be the most famous work in Chinese literature.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16388: Mar 18th 2020 at 10:36:53 PM

Lighty's been meaning to get to it. I've talked to him about it before.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16389: Mar 19th 2020 at 6:09:34 AM

Also thanks to ACW I have a bit of a touch up for Haman's first sentence over at Gundam:

From: Mobile Suit Gundam ZZ: Axis warlord and Neo-Zeon Regent for Life Haman Khan came closer to conquering the Earth Sphere than any of the despots to come before or after her in the UC timeline.

To: Mobile Suit Gundam ZZ: Haman Khan, Axis' warlord and the Regent for Life of Neo-Zeon, came closer to conquering the Earth Sphere than any of the despots before or after her.

Everyone else has their name first and I think it's a bit less clunky than the original. For pothole names, since y'all know I'm not great about that, he suggested Anti-Villain, Big Bad or Names to Run Away From... personally I like Anti-Villain given it suits her the most but I'll leave that to the thread.

Thoughts?

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16391: Mar 19th 2020 at 7:09:16 AM

Agreed, she’s handily the least evil Gundam villain and given she seems to fall in love with the protagonist, most amicable as well. I like to think of her as Scirocco if his ambiguous good qualities were explicit instead, so I think AV is what makes her stand out.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#16392: Mar 19th 2020 at 7:27:58 AM

That seems the best.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16393: Mar 19th 2020 at 7:39:48 AM

Cool also Imperial there's enough space for two more potholes for Char and one more for Haman... also we may as well take this opportunity and you can request whatever you'd like for the other Gundam characters as well?

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#16394: Mar 19th 2020 at 2:43:14 PM

Cut this ZCE from Hatoful Boyfriend:

  • Doctor Shuu.

[down]Yes.

Edited by falcontalons on Mar 19th 2020 at 2:54:33 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#16395: Mar 19th 2020 at 2:44:18 PM

The visual novel with the pigeons?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16396: Mar 19th 2020 at 3:03:42 PM

Haven’t played that in years. Shuu was a hilarious Yandere parody and like many such parodies, himself became a prime example of Draco in Leather Pants but I don’t think he’s quite this... as I recall he was just comically insane and kills you in his route.

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#16397: Mar 19th 2020 at 7:34:17 PM

All right, done rewatching Strike Back: Vengeance since it was mentioned some days ago and it's on my To-Do List.

Conrad Knox doesn't count. He almost did, but the last three episodes make it clear he's a high-functioning Smug Snake. As the season progresses, several things go wrong for Knox, but he keeps his calm and manages to improvise rather easily. Up until he's publicly exposed by the daughter of an African democrat he had murdered (long story). From that point forward, Knox becomes more reckless and petty, and goes as far as setting off two nuclear bombs in Johannesburg simply because he was upset that his father's reputation was ruined by the British, and he felt that blowing up a city was the only way to avenge his father. This all culminates with him killing himself in a scuffle out of shame. So definite no to him, despite Charles Dance's wonderful performance as him.

Craig Hanson, the Evil Counterpart to Michael Stonebridge, might count though. If I don't do an effortpost on him in a couple hours, I'll make one tomorrow once I'm home from work.

Gonna start watching the Shadow Warfare season next too.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
227someguy I hate spoilers Since: Apr, 2017
I hate spoilers
#16398: Mar 19th 2020 at 7:35:02 PM

I was once given permission to make Jin an MB, but was told that I needed to explain why he was eligible, which it understandable. So here I go.

Intelligence: After his Start of Darkness, he founded the Organization of Torna, gathering those who also wanted to destroy the world by appealing to there shared hatred (although Mikhail wasn't totally on board with destroying everything). He also kills Haze/Fan la Norne to prevent her from being a problem later.

Villainy: He kills Rex at the beginning of the game and his old friend Haze (albeit as acts of mercy). He kidnaps Pyra so Malos can regain his strength and wants to destroy the world, knowing his driver Lora wouldn't want him to.

Virtues: Jin is a Noble Demon who allows Nia to escape after Rex's first battle with Malos. His "The Reason You Suck" Speech to Rex later in the game wasn't out of anger or spite, it was disappointment. In the land of Morytha, he stops his team from attacking the party out of respect for them, even though they're enemies. Jin is ultimately moved by Rex's resolve and growth after being defeated and sacrifices himself to finish off Amalthus.

Improvising: After failing to secure Pyra at the Spirit Crucible Elpys, he eventually succeeds in doing so while the party is in Genbu. This crushes Rex's resolve and forces him into a 10-Minute Retirement.

Charm: Even though Rex refuses to forgive him, he stills realizes what a Tragic Villain he is and Azurda believes he's a "splendid soul".

Everyone look at my sandbox
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16399: Mar 19th 2020 at 8:26:50 PM

Too tired to really be voting and reading thoroughly right now but glancing that over Someguy, that looks like a good summation and you're touching on a lot of what we see but do you mind giving a summary of his actions from start to end, so we get more immersed in how he handles things, plots, takes his defeat, etc.? Cheers and welcome!

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#16400: Mar 20th 2020 at 9:11:35 AM

Alright, possible crossover with Complete Monster here.

What's the work?

1BeatHeart is the sequel to 1bit Heart (which I discussed on this Magnificent Bastard EP). In it, Misane Mikoto and Yoshi Nanase, detectives in training, go take a vacation at a hotel. But it turns into a Busman's Holiday as a Serial Killer is in the hotel...

Who is Shinobu Kasuga? What does he do?

Shinobu Kasuga seems to just be the hotel gardener who works on floor 4. A mild-mannered and gentle man, he is liked for being very sweet and friendly. Except he is actually the Serial Killer- in fact, Shinobu is just an alias he uses, his real name unknown.

He is unique in that he likes to manipulate other people into killing for him, rather than kill himself. Thanks to his Compelling Voice, he can influence the thoughts of others and have them do what he wants. In the bonus scenario of 1bit Heart, he boards the ship that Misane and Nanase are on. Yoh, one of the cooks, is angry at a magazine interviewer working on the ship because said person had interviewed a friend of Yoh's and been really mean about it. Shinobu manipulates Yoh into murdering the worker via poisoned doorknob, then leaves the detectives to catch Yoh.

At the actual hotel, Shinobu next sets his sights on a little girl, Merue Ujou. She was Happily Adopted by Shitsuna Ujou, and lived a good life with her unnamed sister. But one day, Merue's sister died in a car crash, and Shitsuna tells Merue that You Should Have Died Instead. Shinobu gets her to murder her mother by using a rotating room to hang her. His third helper is Namoto, a member of a trio of famous pianists from the Blue Sun College of Music who recently had a falling out with his friend and fellow member, Sataka Fushimi. He gets Namoto to poison Sataka by giving him a mix of cold medicine and beer. In all three cases, he makes sure to delete their memories of him so the crime cannot be traced back to him.

Once those three are caught, Shinobu goes for his masterstroke. He plans to create a case so baffling that Misane will be unable to solve it, and break her confidence to make her more vulnerable. He puts listening devices on the three cats belonging to the hotel owner’s son, and lets them loose. Through this, he is able to find several people throughout the hotel who have issues in life, some of whom are suicidal. Shinobu goes to them and, with his Compelling Voice, convinces them to kill themselves in a variety of ways, including stabbing, hanging, and self-strangulation. The idea is to create several locked-room mysteries that Misane cannot solve. It works like a charm, and he uses his voice to turn Misane against Nanase, nearly getting her to kill him. But he breaks her out of it, and they go to confront him.

He uses his voice to put them to sleep, pulls a Karma Houdini by running away, and the work “ends”.

Magnificent?

He masterminds the plot from start to finish, manipulates people into murder and suicide (his Compelling Voice helped, but he is a genuine Manipulative Bastard), removed all evidence linking the crimes to him, stayed Beneath Suspicion by acting super nice, created a mystery so impenetrable that Great Detective Misane broke trying to solve it, and gets away with it all. While he says he has no motive, I think he just found the whole thing a fun little game.

Bastard?

He is a Serial Killer who manipulates people into murder and Psychic-Assisted Suicide. Not the worst thing ever, but enough for CM status.

Verdict?

I hate the fact that he got away unscathed, but we have had Karma Houdini MB's before. So, what do you think?

Edited by MasterN on Mar 20th 2020 at 9:26:14 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.

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