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Cleanup thread: Magnificent Bastard

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous post 
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

  • Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.

  • What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
    • Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
    • Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
    • Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
    • Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
    • Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.

  • What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.

  • Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.

  • What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
    • Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
    • Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
    • List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
    • The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.

  • How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.

  • What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.

  • What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.

  • What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.

  • Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.

  • What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.

  • Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.

  • What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.

  • Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.

Thread rules

When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.

Resolved items

In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.

However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.

This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.

Definitely an MB

Definitely not an MB

  • South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#16301: Mar 16th 2020 at 9:50:08 AM

I'm fine with cutting Neil.

BTW how do we treat full fanfic AUs here. Because I have a cannidate I have been going back and forth on proposing, because in the main work she wouldn't not count at all. But in the fanfic the setting and tone is changed completely. Should I go ahead or not. It's not like a case of Ron the Death Eater or anything. It's just taking a very serious setting and making it more akin to a teen comedy.

Edited by Bullman on Mar 16th 2020 at 11:52:12 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#16302: Mar 16th 2020 at 9:50:26 AM

Much like my own Yashiro, Neil was proposed in a time where a lot more leeway was allowed in the "bastard" part of a Magnificent Bastard, and back then I think he absolutely counted via the criteria.

Now though.... I'm personally gonna have to give Neil a 'Cut' vote. I'm absolutely sure he's an immensely charismatic, willful bastard, but mind raping a guy into cannibalising a child just to—quite literally—prove a point, a point that isn't even well-intentioned or understandable, but actually immensely disturbed and despicable, pushes him over the edge for me.

If he didn't do that act? I could see him keeping. If he did that act but it was for Well-Intentioned Extremist goals? Could also see it. But performing such a horrid act because he wants to prove a point to his frenemy is really fucked.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16303: Mar 16th 2020 at 9:53:04 AM

@ Bull, That's fine—we put up Bebe from that South Park fic—and while I disagreed with that one, the contrast to her portrayal in the original show was not my reason for taking issue with her.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16304: Mar 16th 2020 at 10:52:24 AM

Another thing I wanna get covered today. I revamped Edelgard to actually have the character page links she should have had in the first place:

  • Fire Emblem: Three Houses: Edelgard von Hresvelg is the heiress to the Ardrestrian Empire and successor to her father, Ionius IX as his sole surviving heir and leader of the Black Eagle House. She kickstarts the plot by acting as the Flame Emperor to have the students of Garreg Mach Monastery assassinated by bandits, particularly Claude von Riegan of Golden Deer, and her step-brother, Dimitri Alexandre Blaiddyd of Blue Lions. Her goal: To take back the monastery from the corrupt Church of Seiros. After aligning with Byleth Eisner after they join her, she has them incapacitated so they are unable to stop her from declaring war on the Church as well as the Leicester Alliance and The Kingdom of Faerghus. In the Crimson Flower Route, she ends up killing Rhea, the Archbishop who, was actually the daughter of the goddess, and conquers the entire Fòdlan continent, while executing Dimitri. In the other routes she is bested, and accepts her fate to be executed by Dimitri, or Byleth in the Golden Deer path. Despite her cold and calculating demeanor and seeming perfectionist attitude, those who have earned her respect, such as Byleth are treated to a much warmer side of her. In the end, she succeeds or almost succeeds in bringing Fòdlan to its knees, as well as removing the corrupt influence of the Church and "those who slither in the dark".

But how should it actually look so that it's accurate like it should have been in the first place? This is getting to be an annoying wait and I'd like to see it fixed and put to bed.

Edited by 43110 on Mar 16th 2020 at 2:06:53 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#16305: Mar 16th 2020 at 11:53:50 AM

[down]Give me a few minutes. I hate doing eps on my phone.

Edited by miraculous on Mar 16th 2020 at 12:08:01 PM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#16306: Mar 16th 2020 at 12:06:25 PM

[up] I'm leaning [tup], but could you retype this? There are too many typos and I was having trouble deciphering certain actions.

Edit: My [tup] stands.[down]

Edited by jjjj2 on Mar 16th 2020 at 3:20:56 PM

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#16307: Mar 16th 2020 at 12:16:39 PM

Done. Anyway lets start this again.

New ep from a book I read

Whats the work?

Angel Mage by Garth Nix is a Feminist Fantasy adaptation of the three musketeers set in a fantasy 17th century France where people summon angels for powers

More than a century has passed since Liliath crept into the empty sarcophagus of Saint Marguerite, fleeing the Fall of Ystara. But she emerges from her magical sleep still beautiful, looking no more than nineteen, and once again renews her single-minded quest to be united with her lover, Palleniel, the archangel of Ystara.

A seemingly impossible quest, but Liliath is one of the greatest practitioners of angelic magic to have ever lived, summoning angels and forcing them to do her bidding.

Liliath knew that most of the inhabitants of Ystara died from the Ash Blood plague or were transformed into beastlings, and she herself led the survivors who fled into neighboring Sarance. Now she learns that angels shun the Ystaran’s descendants. If they are touched by angelic magic, their blood will turn to ash. They are known as Refusers, and can only live the most lowly lives.

But Liliath cares nothing for the descendants of her people, save how they can serve her. It is four young Sarancians who hold her interest: Simeon, a studious doctor-in-training; Henri, a dedicated fortune hunter; Agnez, an adventurous musketeer cadet; and Dorotea, an icon-maker and scholar of angelic magic. They are the key to her quest.

The four feel a strange kinship from the moment they meet, but do not know why, or suspect their importance. All become pawns in Liliath’s grand scheme to fulfill her destiny and be united with the love of her life. No matter the cost to everyone else. .

Who is Liliath/Milady ?

Liliath was a nun and angel summoner who was renowned for being a prodigy having discovered the archangel Phalniel. Phalinel and her fell in love and wanted to be together but due to angels being extra-dimensional beings, she could only summon him for short periods of time and desired to be with him forever. So she planned to give him a human host, unfortunately his immense power destroyed said host from the inside and transformed him into a monster, panicking phaelniel went from host to host spread a plague on the citizens where if hit with the presence of angels they'd become monsters called beastlys (The process shattered him into a million pieces). Liliath lead the survivors out of Ystara but began to plot on how to get her beloved back. She discovered that eventually within a few lifetimes, eventually ystarans would be born with their pieces expectantly powerful with phaelniel's essence and would allow her to return him. So she entered a sarcophagus and left an angel to tell her when these would rise.

Anyway a hundred years pass, when four individuals have now been born with it and she awakens and sets off to work. She discovers a group of survivors of the fall of Ystara known as resenters who live in squalor due to the whole will become a monster if coming into contact angel light in a world where angels are used for everything by the upper nobles. She seduces and heals their leader Bisc and uses the big show of their leader being healed to have them follow her. She then does her research of the neighboring land of of sarcane through the library and discovers that a vising noble named lady Dehms from alban is arriving. Dehms doesn't have any family and connections, so Liliath kills her and her servants and replaces them with her and her refusers. Though the children of the house were spared.

Anyway a rival of Bisc called the owl challenges him for control of the refusers, Liliath under the alias Milady decides to be the one to fight her champion in order to straighten her control of the group. As she enters the sewers, she discovers that owl has cheated with other warriors, liliath outsmarts and kills them before capturing and killing the owl for her plan. After a rash of refuser attacks, the four (who due to being phalniels soul fragments are linked and now inseparable) are now sent to investigate, she has two of her agents carrying the owls body come close to them and they race off after them before dumping her near the entrance of the treasure stash which contain three of the royal families jewels summoning icons which they report to the queen. These were stolen by Liliath shortly after the fall of ystara.

Meanwhile before this, Liliath as Lady Dehms makes a sad story on how the refusers stole her family treasure which was this stuff and reports it to the crown while knowing her alban ancestry will throw them for a loop if they were to try to link the ystarn refusers and an native from alban who are peaceful with sarcan. Anyway after the discovery of these, the queen and king summons her where liliath has an attack faked in order to save the queen and win her over. Liliath then seduces the queen becoming her lover and starts to whisper sweet stuff in her ears as well as playing to her love of money in order to get her fund an army to go to Ystara. Even better she convinces her to use the captured refuses as the laborers which gives Liliath, additional troops in addition to her own gang. To avoid suspicion she fakes an illness and leaves a simulacram to both allow her to be able to leave and discuss with her gang and give an excuse why shes not either with the queen or the treasure hunt.

Anyway Liliath attacks the caravan and kidnaps the four planning to sacrifice them in order to use them to revive her beloved which will also take way the angel fragments in the refusers and beastlys. One of the four Dorethea during the ritual though realizes theirs no way to stop it but can prevent this from possibly doing harm. She reverses it to revive Phalnel and instead turn Liliath into an angel herself, allowing Liliath to be with her beloved and curing all beastlys and refusers of their infliction.

Magnificent ?

An elegant, seductive and charismatic villain. Liliath defines The Vamp, using and seducing people beofre playing them like a fool as demonstrated by bisc and the queen. She can also very much think on her feet from plotting to revive herself centuries later since she couldn't do it then after her ritual went wrong by accident to using a corpse of her rival as a way to get the attention of the authorities. Her plan is complex and features various running parts but shes always their to have her hand in and stir it in the right way while avoiding detection by making safety measures like the nationality of her kill and replace to throw people off or the simulacrum. In essence, lady is great. Heck she does get to be with her beloved in the end.

Bastard. Too much ?

Liliath is bad. She launches attacks, murdered lady dehms and her servants and indirectly created the plague which destroyed ystara. Yet at the same time, shes pragmatic, not going out of her way to be evil as possible for the sake of it even sparring the kids. She truly loves phaniel and wants to be with him returned and that drives her quest and what also helps is the fact that the destruction of Ystara was both not totally her fault and legit not planned. In essence it leaves whats arguably her worst crime as simply a mistake which she recovered from rather then a grotesque act of malice for the sake of it. She is steadfast devoted to her cause and love.

Conclusion?

An easy keep IMO.

Edited by miraculous on Mar 16th 2020 at 12:25:46 PM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#16313: Mar 16th 2020 at 1:50:52 PM

[tup] to Liliath

For Neil....typically I'm easier on crossovers as long as there's a purpose, but, forced cannibalism of a child is a bit too much. Cut away

Things are really about to get Fun around here
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#16314: Mar 16th 2020 at 2:11:35 PM

[tup] to Omar Bahir, Krake and Lilath.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#16315: Mar 16th 2020 at 2:50:15 PM

Yeah as much as I enjoy seeing CM/MB crossovers, the fact that Neil mind rapes someone into cannibalizing a child is way too much for me. Vote to cut Neil.

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
MasterGhandalf Since: Jul, 2009
#16316: Mar 16th 2020 at 3:58:14 PM

I'll give a [tup]to Liliath as well.

Klavice (Elder Troper)
#16317: Mar 16th 2020 at 4:10:28 PM

Mind Rape being a disqualifying trait? Maybe Relius ought to go then because in his good ending (it's non canon though) he literally does exactly that to Makoto Nanaya. And Edelgard's new writeup looks good. Thanks 43110, and to that user who requested some changes.

I might end up attempting to effortpost Nagito Komaeda, despite my doubts of him qualifying.

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#16318: Mar 16th 2020 at 4:11:58 PM

[up] If it's non-canon, I don't think he needs to go.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16319: Mar 16th 2020 at 4:19:53 PM

We've discussed exactly that about Relius. There's no sexual undertones to what he does beyond what overly-excited fans put into it. Also Edelgard is not fixed, I just used the character pages to link into it since they just be used over tropes. I need you to correct the factual inaccuracies or at least work with someone who can and get me an entry that details how things actually go down in the game.

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#16320: Mar 16th 2020 at 7:37:03 PM

Just removed Niel Cassidy from Sandbox.CM And MB Crossovers, since we are cutting him.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16321: Mar 16th 2020 at 7:49:18 PM

He looks like he's on his way out but as a rule for myself I'm going to give at least 24 hours after initial post to file the cut, as I've seen enough flips before. I have no problem with taking him off the crossover list since it's much more informal though.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Klavice (Elder Troper)
#16323: Mar 17th 2020 at 3:16:37 AM

I'm willing to cut Edelgard for now and put her on the "wait and see" list like Kokichi. Until we can find someone who has recently played the Crimson Flower route of Three Houses, I'll admit it's been a while for me. I was trying to get the Crimson Flower route of Edelgard to count since it's technically the only route where she "succeeds" or rather, doesn't die.

So yeah, if you're willing to have Edelgard temporarily removed until Lighty or someone else can weigh in and help resolve these contradictions. Honestly, I'm not liking the fact we've been removing my candidates left and right, but it can't be helped.

Is there a "MB re-evaluation" part of the thread where I can take my other examples to ensure I didn't miss anything with them? I hate having to do this, but to ensure I can properly effortpost someone in the future, I'd kind of like a re-evaluation of all of my candidates by people who have played the games.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16324: Mar 17th 2020 at 4:05:07 AM

Not sure we need something as drastic as cutting her. I’ve messaged one of the people who was popped up to question it asking them for assistance.

There isn’t a re-evaluation specific part of the thread but you’re welcome to create a list of the like for yourself.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16325: Mar 17th 2020 at 4:54:11 AM

Also I'm sick again today so fuck it... let's rip this one:

  • Noir: Mistress Altena is a high priestess within Les Soldats who seeks to cleanse both the organization and the world of corruption. Driven by her childhood trauma of having her village destroyed by soldiers, one of whom raped her, Altena raises Chloe as her surrogate daughter with genuine love and sends her to watch over the titular Noir duo, Mirielle Bouquet and Kirika Yuumura, while sending waves of assassins after them to train Kirika and make her stronger. Using Chloe to manipulate the Noir duo, Altena deceives them into eliminating all her rivals, eventually unveiling her true plan to have Chloe kill Mirielle so that Chloe and Kirika can become the True Noir. When Chloe is defeated and killed instead, Altena makes one final stand against Mirielle and Kirika, and when defeated, dies on her own terms, throwing herself into a lava pit. Ruthless yet affable, Altena never loses her chillingly stoic demeanor, even in death.
  • Tales from the Dark Multiverse: In this retelling of Knightfall, Bruce Wayne, Batman, now referred to as The "Broken", failed to regain the cowl after attempting to retrieve it from Jean-Paul Valley. Subjected to a brutal torture, Bruce is left a head and torso hooked up to a life support system, but refuses to crack, criticizing Jean's detective skills and reliance on venom. After being saved by Tourne, Bane's son, and Lady Shiva, Bruce is given a new body made out of Nano-bats, which he uses to help the two battle Valley, who is now calling himself Saint Batman. Revealed to have grown more ruthless since his imprisonment, Bruce kills Valley's Co-Dragons. Cardinal is tricked into decapitating Torchbearer, and then he tears up Cardinal with his Nano-bats before tossing him down the hole he came from, killing him. After Valley is defeated, Bruce suddenly kills Tourne and Shiva, and reveals to Valley that, while he's come to agree with his rhetoric, he hates how Valley relied on others. Stringing up Valley's corpse, Bruce reveals himself to Gotham, and is met with cheers of the people.
  • Dick Tracy: Breathless Mahoney is the main singer at the Club Ritz who secretly becomes the faceless gangster "The Blank". Seeking to get out from under Alphonse "Big Boy" Caprice, Breathless secretly makes plans to undermine his business and takeover while also stringing along Dick Tracy whom she is in love with. She discreetly learns about Big Boy's plans and as Blank, saves Tracy from a trap Big Boy set from him. Wanting to tarnish Tracy's name so he'll join her acquisition of the city and choose her over girlfriend Tess Trueheart, Breathless kills the corrupt DA Fletcher and sets Tracy up for it. She then kidnaps Tess, pins it on Big Boy and then tries to bargain Tracy into killing Big Boy and then joining her.
  • Hogan's Heroes: Marya is a Soviet spy who operates under the cover of being a White Russian émigré. Extremely capable behind her overacting and eccentric behavior, she proves one of the most cunning and charismatic schemers in the series. In her first appearance, she helps the Heroes to spring captured French Resistance member Tiger in order to obtain information about secret German airbases for her country. Subsequently, Marya alternates between working with the Heroes towards a common goal and working at cross purposes towards her own objectives, often using their own scheming to her advantage. Her achievements include destroying or discrediting plenty of high-ranking German officers and scientists, helping to steal a large portion of Hermann Göring's art collection, sabotaging the reputation of an experimental wunderwaffe, retrieving a Soviet scientist, and saving her spy ring from an SS plan to expose it. The only recurring character to consistently get the better of Colonel Robert Hogan, Marya stands head and shoulders above the show's other schemers.
  • Storm of the Century: The courteous yet menacing Andre Linoge is a demonic sorcerer in search of an apprentice to carry out his legacy after his death. Arriving at Little Tall Island, Linoge murders an old woman and allows himself to be arrested so he can demonstrate his power to the town by revealing knowledge of the citizen's dark secrets, as well as magically influencing others into committing murder and suicide. Breaking out of his holding cell, Linoge demands a child, and threatens to kill everyone on the island if they do not fulfil his wishes. Ultimately getting what he wants in the end, Linoge thanks the inhabitants of Little Tall Island and leaves them to live with their guilt.
  • You: Love Quinn is the daughter of a wealthy socialite couple, whose Start of Darkness began when she murdered her babysitter after discovering that she raped her brother, Forty, while using her charms and family's wealth to avoid suspicion. Into adulthood, Love becomes obsessed with Joe Goldberg upon learning about his darker nature, and murders people that could expose Joe, including Delilah Alves when she sees her locked up in Joe's cage and Joe's ex-girlfriend, Candice Stone. Keeping Joe trapped in his own cage, Love tells Joe that she's pregnant with his child to ensure that Joe won't kill her and continue their relationship. When a cop kills Forty for holding Joe at gunpoint, Love pins both their murder on her deceased brother, getting exonerated and allowing herself and Joe to move into the suburbs to start their family.
  • Criminal Case: Omar Bahir, the Sword, is a professor who specializes in Ancient Arabic. Secretly an agent of the nefarious organization SOMBRA, he was hired to sew the seeds of chaos in the Sahara Region to colonize it into a cell. Manipulating several revolutionary leaders into overthrowing their governments, when the Bureau becomes aware of his operation, he shoots Chief Elizabeth Ripley with a poison dart. Bahir then convinces Anir Aznag to assist him with kidnapping 8-year-old Andrew Stern before disposing of him and lures Carmen and the player character to war-torn Iraq to kill them both with a poison grenade after noting he had already taken the antidote. With his twisted genius and sophistication, Bahir stands as one of the Bureau's most deadly, yet intelligent, adversaries.
  • Legacy: In this duology, two of the major antagonists stand out as being the deadliest and craftiest:
    • Shadar, "The Malevolent Shadow", was once the Prince Galahanzer, who faced the god of the world, Proteus, and was driven to despair upon learning the truth of humanity's past as creatures that had rejected their god. Seeking to balance the world by destroying the gods who torment humanity, Shadar became known and feared for killing overpopulated areas to maintain balance, and battles and mentors Slade, allying with him as needed, while outwitting his rivals to always come out on top. Nearly becoming a god before being stopped, Shadar returns in the sequel to implant his soul in Nero, a golem boy, whom he uses to defeat yet another rival and enters the Ether Vein to destroy it and achieve balance. Forced into a stalemate in a final stand, Shadar concedes, content with the balance achieved.
    • The aforementioned Proteus, the god of the world, once created a paradise for humanity and his demi-god children, but after being imprisoned and split into a good and evil half, the latter half became infuriated with his creation's ingratitude and resolved to wipe them out. Manipulating Rhea into becoming his pawn, the evil half of Proteus uses her to eliminate his enemies, getting the drop on Shadar and forcing his good half to engage the heroes personally to test their strength. When faced directly as the Final Boss, the evil Proteus remains undaunted and, even in his loss, merely questions if humanity is able to live on without him. Even then, he returns in the sequel under the alias Dalmar, attempting to destroy the new heroes and take back the world one last time.
  • LiEat III: The Lie-Eating Dragon and the Gold Thief: The titular Phantom Thief Butterfly, real name Cyril Leonhart, is an infamous thief who has stolen artifacts and eluded police around the world. Seeking revenge on both the gang that tormented her in her childhood and her brother Teobaldo for abandoning her, Cyril, with the help of Enos and Gene, infiltrates the showing of the Antique Artifact disguised as Enos and uses ultrasonic waves to disable Efina's power. Stealing the artifact and submerging the building in lies, Cyril forces Teo and Efi to expose Master Wilbur, the party host, and one of his maids as members of the gang, then fights them and corrupts Teo with lies, intending to use him to flood all of Gold Town with lies and wipe out the gang for good. Even in the ending where Efi saves Teo, who apologizes for abandoning Cyril, she refuses and escapes unscathed, promising only to meet them again someday.
  • Spooky's Jump Scare Mansion: The titular Spooky was once an innocent girl who wanted to scare people, after being killed by a Shell-Shocked Veteran she scared, and brought back as a ghost by her grieving father, she becomes something much more ruthless. Creating and funding GL Labs, Spooky has scientists create and capture dozen of creatures known as Specimens, having them placed in her Jumpscare Mansion so they can slaughter people for her plans, completely uncaring of her own employees being killed by these creatures. When the unnamed Player Character arrives at her Mansion, Spooky cheerfully greets them, and spends the entire game hampering their progress. When the player successfully gets through all 1,000 rooms, Spooky is momentarily irritated, but perks back up when she sends Specimen 9 to kill the player. No matter what the player does, Spooky will always win, whether it's turning them into a specimen, or killing them to become a ghost in her army, determined more then ever to prove she isn't cute.
  • South Park fanfic Girls Game: Bebe Stevens is the leader of the girls, uniting them all against the boys. Bebe assisted the child mobster Loogie in his efforts to gain more baby teeth so Bebe can obtain Loogie's loyalty. Bebe also exposed Stan Marsh's disguise by giving him a Groin Attack before ripping out his wig. Gathering everyone to the school gym, Bebe reveals her plan to use a magical fortune telling device to rid her enemies while reshaping reality and time in her own image, which she nearly succeeds until a sudden intervention of Dr. Mephesto's latest creation. The boys then decide to forgive Bebe and invite Bebe and her friends to hang out with them, because they were impressed that she pulled off such an elaborate plan.
  • Edelgard von Hresvelg is the leader of the Black Eagle house and heiress to the Adrestian Empire, as the sole surviving heir and successor to her father Ionius IX. She kickstarts the plot by acting as the Flame Emperor to have the students of Garreg Mach Monastery assassinated by bandits, particularly Claude von Riegan of the Golden Deer house, and her step-brother, Dimitri Alexandre Blaiddyd of the Blue Lions house. Edelgard's goal: to dismantle the corrupt Church of Seiros and after preparing behind the scenes for a year, she declares war on the church, forcing everyone's hand, as she marches towards her grand ambitions. In the Crimson Flower Route, Edelgard ends up killing Rhea, the Archbishop who, was actually the daughter of the goddess, and conquers the entire Fòdlan continent, while executing Dimitri. In the other routes, Edelgard is bested, and accepts her fate to be executed by Dimitri, or Byleth Eisner in the Golden Deer path. Despite Edelgard's cold and calculating demeanor and seeming perfectionist attitude, those who have earned her respect, such as Byleth are treated to a much warmer side of her. In the end, Edelgard succeeds or almost succeeds in bringing Fòdlan to its knees, as well as removing the corrupt influence of the Church and "those who slither in the dark".

Edited by 43110 on Mar 18th 2020 at 11:45:52 AM


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