During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread
for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
to Batman. I wonder if there are other versions of Batman that could also qualify for this trope?
If we can have a Complete Monster Batman, we can have any Batman. Also, @Master N, thanks for the input, but I think mine is fine.
'Yes' to Batman (I wouldn't be surprised at all if more versions of him count), Omar, Breathless and Butterfly
Now, before my write-ups I have one last candidate, again from G.I. Joe, specifically the IDW comics. This is a character I've already run by the thread as a non-Keep, but as I've reread his comics for other purposes, I've come to the realization that brushing him off so quickly might have been a bit too hasty, so let's talk.
What's the work?
To plagiarize myself a bit (again), G.I. Joe (IDW) is a reimagining and reinventing of the G.I. Joe franchise by IDW, featuring more mature and long-spanning stories and arcs than many Joe comics.
We've already discussed three bastards from this work (the first Cobra Commander, Chuckles, and Hawk), and now? I want to talk the second Cobra Commander, better known to all as Krake.
Who is Krake? What makes him a candidate?
The man known only as "Krake" is a ruthlessly efficient Cobra operative, one destined to become something more: Cobra Commander himself.
Born in a war-torn country in the Golden Triangle of Asia, the boy named "Tiger Eyes" was birthed to a poor pair of enslaved drug field workers, his father killed at birth and his mother later dying when a child Tiger Eyes accidentally killed her while trying to save her from a group of rapists.
Growing up with a natural fiery determination and willpower, Tiger Eyes was recruited by various drug lords of the country to be a soldier, a career in which he always proved himself—notably shooting down a military helicopter that sent the rest of his teammates fleeing for their lives, all without ever flinching.
Though his squad is captured by the corrupt military, Tiger Eyes is offered a job as an assassin by the reigning general due to his skills, which he accepts. After performing the assassinations, Tiger Eyes is threatened by the general to leave the country or be killed. Tiger Eyes responds by killing the man and taking his entire money bag.
Continuing his mercenary work, Tiger Eyes and three fellow mercs are on a drug run when they are captured by Major Bludd, who informs them he's been hired to take over local drug trade, and that one of Tiger Eyes's group betrayed the others. Tiger Eyes promptly swipes a gun from one of Bludd's men and kills his three partners, with Bludd remarking the brilliance of it. "That was cold. Either you eliminated your security problem or deflected suspicion from yourself."
Tiger Eyes stares Bludd down, calmly telling him that he won't beg for mercy if Bludd plans to kill him. Bludd lets Tiger Eyes go, and Tiger Eyes is later attacked and brutalized by Cobra troops and the Baroness, who tries to force him to work for Cobra, to which Tiger Eyes tells Baroness to piss off while smashing her against a wall even while Cobra troops try to restrain him, proclaiming that he's made his way on his own all his life and has no plans to change that.
When Baroness responds by dumping Tiger Eyes' beaten body in the street and informing his enemies of his location, Tiger Eyes grabs a lead pipe, attacks a group of assassins sent after him, swipes one of their guns and kills them all. Then tracking down Bludd, Tiger Eyes—this time on his own terms—requests entry to Cobra, in exchange for him giving vital information to the current Cobra Commander that allows him to take control of the reigning criminal Triads of the Golden Triangle area.
After manipulating events to hand the Triads' control over to Cobra Commander, Tiger Eyes joins Cobra, undergoing plastic surgery and killing the two doctors who did the operation to hide his new identity, before taking on his new name: Krake. Commended by the current Cobra Commander (himself a Magnificent Bastard par excellence) as a shining example of what Cobra should be, Krake quickly rises through the ranks with his ruthlessness and skills, eventually becoming a candidate for the position of Cobra Commander following the first's death.
When Krake is analyzed by a brilliant Cobra psychiatrist on the "Lome scale," a scale of 1 to 8 that tells how willful, intelligent, charming and naturally talented at leadership one is...the doctor remarks that people like Hitler, Napoleon, and Caesar were 8s. The only 8 he has met personally? Krake. And when the doctor tries to offset Krake by sending a 1—the natural enemy of an 8—after him, name Michael Monk...Krake recruits Monk to his side, stunning the doctor at Krake's charisma, and though Krake at first kidnaps Monk's wife and child to further his cooperation? When Monk shows sufficient loyalty, Krake gives them back to Monk without issue.
Up against the likes of Baroness, Major Bludd, and nearly half a dozen other potential candidates for Cobra Commander, with their goal being "deal the most damage to G.I. Joe," Krake realizes he needs a way to truly impress the Cobra Council and gain their election votes for himself...Krake seemingly fails the contest, as it comes down to the final three of himself, Major Bludd, and Arashikage ninja crime lord Oda Satori.
Though Major Bludd is initially named the new Cobra Commander, as Krake reveals? He had Oda Satori assassinated a year ago and replaced with Master of Disguise Zartan, using Zartan to control the Arashikage ninjas and carry out his strategies. So all of Satori's crimes against the G.I. Joes—which include destroying their entire home base and forcing them on the run—were orchestrated by Krake, along with Krake's own successes, such as killing innumerable Joes and rescuing Baroness from capture.
As the Cobra Council itself says: "You have revealed yourself to be a treacherous, devious, and Machiavellian schemer. To win the game, you have altered the game. All of which makes you the perfect choice to be the next Cobra Commander."
Elected as the new Cobra Commander, Krake immediately begins changing the game, ordering the decommission of Cobra prison camps and having the prisoners executed to prevent future threats, having the entire Cobra Council assassinated by the Baroness, and, for the first time in history, having Cobra come out of the shadows, invading the Golden Triangle country of Nanzhao, which is ruled by a dictatorship and is one of the world's prime drug trafficking locales.
Beginning to take over the country and killing members of the dictatorship, allying with the country's rebels to assist in their schemes. Krake begins talks with the likes of India's world leader and others to inform them that himself and Cobra are not threats to them, and are merely destroying one of the world's worst drug trades. To reassure the India leader that Cobra is not planning anything ulterior, Krake has the rebels Cobra allied with for the takeover executed and begins burning the drug fields en masse.
Then flying planes all over the country and dropping flyers by the thousands across the place, the flyers order every citizen of Nanzhao to evacuate...becaude Cobra is going to nuke it to hell.
As Krake reveals to his personal aid, Savane? He's going to turn Nanzhao into an irradiated wasteland once most of the populace is out, and this will serve multiple purposes: painting Cobra as heroes who took down a horrible dictatorship and one of the world's most massive drug trades, showing the world that Cobra is a nuclear power to be respected and feared, causing mass confusion and fear by flooding other countries with Nanzhao's evacuating refugees, and also limiting the world's drug supply—leaving the drugs from China controlled by Cobra to skyrocket in price and income.
This genius gambit ends up working, as though G.I. Joe is able to stop one of Cobra's nukes, Krake had half a dozen backups, and annihilates the biggest cities of Nanzhao once they are evacuated. Oh, and while the refugees evacuate? They are systematically approached by Cobra's top recruiter, Serpentor, who Krake orders to entice as many people as possible into his Cobra cult known as the Coil. This gets Krake hundreds of more soldiers for Cobra, too.
After Krake has won, he has Zartan become the "face" of Cobra, painting themselves as a flawed by ultimately well-intentioned organization, and framing the G.I. Joes as a crooked military group. Krake later manipulates, bribes and blackmails an entire town into becoming a Cobra base, killing anyone who refuses his rule, and plans to destroy the entire town and frame G.I. Joe for it. G.I. Joe saves most of the civilians, but Krake succeeds in destroying half the town and framing G.I. Joe for it.
With all of this straining G.I. Joe funding, Krake driees the hammer home by using a senator in his pocket to get the leader of the Joes—Hawk—removed from the team, who Krake later tries to have assassinated (an act that only fails because Hawk is a certified badass mofo and the Cobra troops sent after him underestimate him).
When confronted by the new Arashikage leader Storm Shadow over Satori's death, Krake coolly deescalates the situation, offering a new partnership with Storm Shadow and the Arishikage. Of course, Krake doubts Storm Shadow's allegiance, and when an Arishikage ninja nearly assassinates Zartan and confirms Krake'd suspicions, Krake lures Storm Shadow into a trap by pretending to be defenseless, but then swarms the ninja with Cobra troops when Storm Shadow tries (and fails) to kill Krake. When Storm Shadow swears that Krake won't get away with this, Krake simply replies "Defiant to the last. So sad that no one will ever know of it."
Luckily, Snake Eyes Arrives on the scene, and manages to barely save Storm Shadow's life, at the cost of one of their closest friends Rika thanks to the overwhelming force Krake had ready for them.
Later, at Baroness's suggestion, Krake plans to buy himself an entire country, leaving the transportation of the money in Baroness's hands. When she loses said money, Krake, calling out of her recent failures and ego-driven schemes, informs her that her connection with Cobra is terminated, and orders her be killed. Though Baroness falls into a rushing river, and Savane notes that she is no doubt dead, Krake quickly corrects her, ordering his troops to continue scouring and searching for her, refusing to believe she is dead until he has her corpse before him.
When Krake learns that one of his partners, Destro, has been working with G.I. Joe to dispose of his rival Michael Monk, Krake declares war on Destro, even allowing Baroness back into the fold when she seemingly betrays Destro—and though Destro manages to escape with his life, Krake successfully overwhelms and takes over his cherished "Castle Destro."
In his final appearance in the comic, Krake is approached by the brilliantly manipulative and persuasive woman known as "Siren," who promises to help Krake with his goals of being a Villain with Good Publicity if he will save her son from a gang of human traffickers...dispatching Baroness to help Siren in exchange for her service, Krake's forces end up taking down a massive trafficking ring and saving dozens of children, but Siren's son? Baroness has him kidnapped by Cobra troops after saving him, informing Siren that Krake wants Siren working for them permanently, and that so long as she cooperates, she can be with her son, who is placed in a Cobra youth training camp.
After this, Krake disappears. 5 years pass in-universr in a flashforward and Krake is mysteriously gone, with Cobra run by other members and Krake's whereabouts never given. Oddly enough.
Is Krake magnificent in how he operates?
Absolutely positively. Krake is a brilliant strategist, a badass fighter, a charismatic leader and a threatening presence. He's not the Affably Evil, Wicked Cultured personality of the first Cobra Commander, but rather a militaristic leader, one who inspires either fear or respect from his troops and even trusts them to have independent goals and schemes (When Zartan has become a problem and disrespectful? Krake calmly tells Savane "I tire of his threats. I wish they would cease." and when she asks him if that's an order for Zartan's murder, he responds "No one advances solely by taking orders. Take the initiative, Savane.")
Krake pulls off several genius gambits that work, has zero problem performing heroic acts if it furthers Cobra's Villain with Good Publicity status, shakes his head at putting theatrics or ego over efficiency, and though he's a completely different type of Commander than the first, Krake is his own brand of awesomeness. He stares down death, he gives grandiose speeches, he kills entire groups of assassins with his bare hands, he very rarely loses his temper, he refuses charity and he crosses the likes of Baroness and Major Bludd and comes out ahead, something very hard to do against their kind.
Is Krake a bastard? TOO much of one?
This is why I initially said Krake didn't count—from my memory at the time, he was far too evil, and his Complete Monster write-up that I myself made calls him an "egomaniacal psychopath."
Having reread his comics? This is....inaccurate, as are several parts of his write-up, which I intend to correct very soon with a rewrite. Krake is brutal, efficient, and definitely is a Complete Monster, however, calling him egomaniacal is flat-out wrong, and psychopath implies a level of sadism or evil that Krake just doesn't have. Krake doesn't go for drawing out deaths or causing pain, he can and will always take the Boom, Headshot! over any other methods, and it's how he runs his organization. He doesn't go out of his way to hurt people or kill his own men, but if it serves his purposes, he absolutely will kill hundreds of people, and at one point coldly executes two of his troops just to scare a third. However, his Freudian Excuse is also just messed up enough to give him some leeway as to his crimes, but also not at all absolving or explaining them all away (hence, Complete Monster).
Contrary to his write-up, Krake does not have slavery camps, and in fact decommissions those from Cobra usage when he sees no use for them. Krake also doesn't regularly indulge in mass murder, even though he's fine with it—trying to drop a plane onto Paris is done on a Cobra agent's own accord, even though Krake is chill with it. Even nuking Nanzhao is with the addendum that he gives everyone in the country 24 hours to evacuate.
The only thing that can give pause? Cobra does have a "Cobra Youth Training Camp," where orphaned kids or the children of Cobra agents can be sent, where the kids are put through rigorous training to one day grow up to be Cobra troops, and some of them are noted to be "indoctrinated." Indeed, the G.I. Joes show up to save some of the kids, and one of them vigorously fights the Joes, proclaiming he really does love Cobra and swearing to kill anyone who threatens Cobra. The camp never is shown to outright hurt the kids, merely give them Cobra propaganda while training them like a boot camp would.
This is tough, especially because it happens in literally the last arc where Krake is in charge, and nothing before that reached the levels of "too much bastard." But something I'd note? Krake never personally is shown interacting with or commissioning the camp. The camp is run by a Cobra agent named Big Boa, someone Krake never interacts with either, and Krake is never even seen in the arc.
This, to me, probably gives enough distance from Krake and this crime that, considering how absolutely perfectly he hits the makes for Magnificent Bastard otherwise, this can perhaps be allowed. If Krake was on-scene, training the kids or overseeing it, or even mentioning its existence? Then it would be tougher, but given that Krake allows a lot of autonomy in his group, there's a high disconnect between him and this crime, so I honestly don't think it goes the extra mile of pushing him into "too much of a bastard" territory. It's still heinous that he's allowing it under his banner, but given how distant it is from him personally?
This could easily differ for some, which I would understand if so, but personally? I'm of the opinion that Krake being so utterly disconnected from the camp lessens its effect to his bastardry, and could allow him to be declared 'not too much of a bastard', even if he is still a Complete Monster.
Final Verdict?
I've gone back and forth on Krake, talked to Tropers about him, but ultimately, with this effortpost, I'm saying I think Krake can count for both CM and Magnificent Bastard. He is a brilliant, brutal mastermind who takes Cobra out of the shadows and still succeeds in a shit ton of plans, he changes the entire game for every character in the comic, and his disconnection from some of his more nasty crimes (attempted mass murder, the child training camp, etc) all work together to, I think, let him slip in smoothly.
But that's just me, and I'll understand dissenting opinions, so let's discuss!
Edited by Ravok on Mar 14th 2020 at 5:14:45 AM
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
To Krake. Wow we haven’t had a CM/MB crossover in a while, and I always love it when a Complete Monster can also become a Magnificent Bastard
Having talked this one thoroughly through with Ravok, I’m going to abstain but wouldn’t mind him going up—much as I hate crossovers—some of the shit he gets up to is nasty but he’s just removed enough from them I’m not sure they make him too detestable and he is charming and brilliant. I’m looking forward to seeing where this one goes!
Krake, I guess.
Okay, this is something that's been bugging me for a while, namely Bebe from the South Park fanfic Girls Game, effort-posted here
. To clarify, I'm ambivalent on whether she counts or not. That said, having read the fic, there were a few things the effort-post, eh, misinterpreted a bit. This one I specifically want to talk about, since it's also in the write-up.
"Bebe has Karen Mc Cormick deliver the baby teeth to Loogie knowing that her brother Mysterion AKA Kenny will be too distracted to stop Bebe's plan by making sure Karen is safe from Loogie."
That's....simply wrong. It's Loogie who has Karen deliver the teeth because "She looks trustworthy, and more importantly someone who looks like you'd want back", with Bebe simply going along with it. That, and it doesn't even work; Mysterion still uncovers Bebe's plan with little difficulty and comes up with the plan that ultimately foils it.
Like I said, that doesn't really disqualify Bebe, but that was an element I think should've been pointed out due to how the effort-post misconstrued it.
Edited by Clown-Face on Mar 14th 2020 at 5:59:39 AM
Why so serious?Didn't Dimento take the characters to a place that made everyone in it stronger, somehow completely ignorant to the fact that that would also make them stronger, as well? This resulted in him getting his ass kicked, and he has play it off as what he intended to not look like an idiot.
Point is, a single mistake, even one as colossal as that, isn't enough.
It's been a while since I read that fan fic, though despite the error I made during my effort post and trying not to sound biased I'd still lean to keep Bebe due to everything else said about her is true (at least how I remember it). Anywho I cant believe that I read that event completely wrong (I would never try to lie in my effort post ) and I thank Clown-Face correcting that error and I hope that this issue won't dissuade you all from voting on potential keeps that I might find in any South Park fan fics, and the canon South Park shows and video games if I ever find any in the future . With that here's a more accurate write-up for Bebe:
- South Park fanfic Girls Game
: Bebe Stevens is the leader of the girls, uniting them all against the boys. Bebe would also assist the child mobster Loogie in his efforts to obtain more baby teeth to gain Loogie's loyalty. Bebe would also expose Stan Marsh's disguise with a Groin Attack and ripping out his wig. Gathering everyone to the school gym, Bebe reveals her plan to use a magical fortune telling device to rid her enemies while reshaping reality and time in her own image, which she nearly succeeds until a sudden intervention of Dr. Mephesto's latest creation. The boys then decide to forgive Bebe and invite Bebe and her friends to hang out with them, because they were impressed that she pulled off such an elaborate plan.
@Clown-Face: Feel free to point out any other errors. Also since you also read that fan fic to, do you think Loogie could also qualify?
Edited by G-Editor on Mar 14th 2020 at 4:40:32 AM
My sandbox of EPs and other stuffI'I'm kinda bewildered Dimentio got approved at all. He's a HUGE sadist, practically getting off on causing Mario, Mr. L, Bowser, and Peach's deaths and is EXTREMELY unlikeable. I don't see he as charming. I see him as a Hate Sink. Plus he tries to blow up the Multiverse after losing showing he's a Sore Loser. Isn't it a requirement for an MB to at least admit defeat without throwing a Suicidal Cosmic Temper Tantrum?
There's quite a few approved entries I've seen approved which seem to have failed at least one mark on the MB checklist.
As for Edelgard, yeah she has a few issues but it wouldn't be MB if a character was nice all the time. Plus the reason she tried to kill Dimitri was similar to Sephiroth, not that she's a Sore Loser, but because of Taking You with Me with Dimitri due to Dimitri also being too far gone.
Edited by Klavice on Mar 14th 2020 at 8:22:27 AM

Oh, and I added one line to the Spooky writeup:
Spooky 2 Cute, is this okay?
Edited by MasterN on Mar 14th 2020 at 9:41:32 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.