During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread
for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
Doesn't look like it so I'll say yes there and as for the points on Edelgard... I saw a number of edits indicating there may have been errors in her entry and I just wanted to see it all get discussed here so we find out exactly how it should go. Klavice you did her entry and EP, if Perentie is correct in their assessment I'd suggest you just go to the drafts and correct whatever errors there are.
The long and short of it is: what should Edelgard look like, accurate to what's important about her in terms of meeting the criteria and to how things go down in the game? I'm not sure why this wasn't reported accurately in the initial writeup but what should the writeup look like so I know what to ask for changes when the time comes to request it on locked pages?
Edited by 43110 on Mar 12th 2020 at 9:58:41 AM
@Klavice
You got the roles of L and Light backwards. Light's the protagonist and L is the antagonist
Alright. I want another keeper for something and HS is too easy to do, so I’m going for it:
What is the work?
Dick Tracy is a 1990 film adaptation of the comic strip about a 1930s era detective constantly fighting against the mob violence of the city. The movie is well-known for its visually arresting style both costume and set wise, having been directed by Warren Beatty who also stars in the title role. In this movie, Tracy tries to figure out if he can have a true personal life beyond his job while he's trying to keep the mob from taking control of the city.
Who is she and what has she done?
Breathless Mahoney is the headline singer at the Club Ritz run by her mob boss boyfriend Lips Manlis. After she calmly tells him his disgusting eating habits is making her feel sick, they’re both abducted and captured by Flattop and fake cops on behalf of rival mobster Alphonse "Big Boy" Caprice. As Big Boy viciously has Lips executed by means of Cement Bath after forcing him to sign away everything he has, Breathless calmly allows Big Boy to hit on her and take her as his own.
During a practice session, Breathless endures both verbal abuse and a slap from Big Boy for talking back at him. Once Tracy tries to arrest and charge Big Boy, she sidesteps Tracy’s requests to testify that Big Boy killed Lips while flirting with him and taking him off guard, which she does on more than one occasion too. Breathless decides to take on the persona of a literally faceless new gangster called the Blank and observes Big Boy’s meeting with the other gangs of the city (as well as Tracy eavesdropping on it). She also observed during a secret meeting that DA Fletcher is in Big Boy’s pocket and watches intently from the stage while performing (something she’s never distracted from ever) while Tracy makes another attempt to stifle Big Boy.
Seeking to remove Big Boy and take over the city as the new crime lord, Breathless as Blank meets with piano player 88 Keys about him making a deal with Big Boy to enact a plan that will remove Tracy discreetly (while also keeping her name and Blank’s out of it). Big Boy at first rejects the plan because he doesn’t trust whoever 88 Keys is in league with. Breathless watches and pretends to be ignorant of the whole scene. During a trap Big Big set for Tracy, Breathless then as Blank saves Tracy from two of Big Boy’s men by shooting one of them. Out of options, Big Boy tells 88 Keys he will accept the deal from the unknown person offering it.
Thus, Breathless makes Fletcher think Tracy is wanting to extort him and arranges a meet at a hotel room. During which, Breathless as Blank abducts Tracy’s girlfriend Tess Trueheart and sedates Tracy himself. Blank then enters the hotel room while wearing Tracy’s hat and coat and then shoots and kills Fletcher. She and 88 Keys then leave the blackmail evidence, make it sound like Tracy and Fletcher argued and then leave Tracy behind to wake up. He’s literally caught with the gun in his hand.
Tracy is arrested, but later escapes and learns that Tess is in Big Boy’s vault. Breathless clearly put her there and then as Blank, calls the police to report Big Boy kidnapping Tess. Caught red handed for "the one crime you didn't commit", Big Boy flees with Tess and while Big Boy’s men are all shot and killed by the police, 88 Keys is arrested too. Breathless points out where Big Boy escaped to Tracy and wishes him luck. It’s blocked off, but eventually, Tracy finds and fights Big Boy while trying to save Tess.
Blank interrupts by threatening both men with a gun and demands Tracy kill Big Boy and take over the city with her. Tracy is unwilling to do that and Blank apparently prepares to shoot him for refusing, but is knocked down by the Kid (now Dick Tracy Jr.). Big Boy takes the opportunity to grab a gun and fatally shoots Blank, but is killed by Tracy immediately after by being pushed over the railing. Tracy unmasks Blank as Breathless and as Tess and the Kid go to get help, Breathless tells Tracy he was her one weakness, gives him one last kiss and sadly succumbs to her wounds.
Is she Magnificent?
She’s able to keep a low profile while literally being in the spotlight, keep Big Boy’s focus on just her singing and her appearances and work solely behind the scenes with no one ever suspecting a thing. Her actions result in trouble for both Big Boy and Tracy that the latter is only barely able to get out of. She’s able to keep composed during both Lips's execution and Big Boy berating her, Big Boy’s organization crumbles significantly as a result of everything she’s done and she’s damn near succeeded in taking control of everything herself. Being tripped up by Tracy bluffing her and the Kid knocking her down don’t hurt her too bad because even though Breathless admitted she wouldn’t shoot Tracy, she kept up the appearance that she would after only slight hesitation and she didn’t know the Kid followed Tracy there. Yes, it left her open to Big Boy’s attack, but again, it’s only a slight oversight. Heck, she’s even controlling Big Boy without him knowing it too given him enacting her Frame-Up scheme without knowing it.
Bitch? Too much?
Breathless never has any kind of personal cruelty like Big Boy AND each of those she’s killed were an Asshole Victim. One of those she killed was to save Tracy (who she clearly does love and care about) and framing him was only to get him to become a criminal so he’d choose her over Tess and run the city with her. She’s not even pretending to care about Lips anymore in the dinner scene right before they’re both captured, but is not overly harsh and is simply calling him out for being a slob. Again, Breathless also finds it more important to survive and feel valuable rather show she’s horrified by how Big Boy is killing Lips (a power play and a damn good one too). While her advances on Tracy trying to get him to leave Tess for her come off strongly and she is trying to break them up after that with her kidnapping of Tess too, she understands that his feelings are his feelings and rather than try to force him to change them, only manipulates circumstances for that purpose instead.
Verdict?
I say she’s a
.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 13th 2020 at 10:10:33 AM
Btw lighty theirs an example from dresden files I was thinking of bringing up here. Well the more obvious one I'll save till the new book is out but somone that would fulfill an interesting unclaimed spot on the mb tree. Mind if I pm you.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Oh yes to breathless. Fun film.
So new ep from a ya novel Villain Protagonist I read. Its a long one due to the plot being complex and a charcter only really becoming a badguy at around the halfway point so bear with me.
the Evil Queen by Gena Showalter is an adaptation of snow white from the evil queen's pov which incoprtates elements from game of thrones and once upon a time.
Once upon a time in the magical land of Enchantia, a queen sat in her turret, dreaming of a new life. One of hope and fulfilment rather than dread and emptiness. She was not alone. Whether a royal or a peasant, a newly married woman had twelve months to conceive a child. If the clock ran out, a husband had the right to end the union—with the wife’s beheading. The queen had been married for eleven months, had seduced her husband time and time again...to no avail. Desperate to survive, she joined forces with four other women trapped in similar situations. Another queen, a princess, a witch and an oracle. The five females scoured the earliest Annals of Enchantia...and learned of the mystical Tree of New Beginnings. Owned by a cruel king, the tree possessed a trunk both towering and broad, its ebony-black limbs displaying snow-white leaves and bloodred apples. A mesmerizing triad of colors. The king guarded his treasured possession mercilessly. Eons had passed since the consumption of an apple. A shame, for legend claimed the apples restored lost power, strengthened magic, healed physical injuries and aided a woman’s quest to conceive. The legend provided warnings, as well. Apple babies—forever known as bonum et malum— would wield more power and magic than any of their peers... But they would also suffer a tragic end. The hopeful mothers-to-be chose to believe the blessings and dismiss the curse. Risking everything, they stole and ate one apple apiece. Except for the second queen. She ate two apples, just to be doubly sure. Nine months later, on the same day, each woman gave birth to a healthy, beautiful baby girl. Actually, Queen Doubly Sure gave birth to two healthy, beautiful baby girls. The new mothers rejoiced...until the oracle spoke a prophecy of doom and darkness, claiming the six newborns would one day play a part in “Snow White and the Evil Queen,” the fairy tale a road map for their fates. First, though, they had to escape the cruel king. When he learned what had happened, he ordered the executions of the mothers and their children. One of the queens ran away...and died at the hands of a dangerous sorcerer. The oracle and the witch went into hiding...only to be found and killed. Thankfully, their daughters survived. Terrified, the princess and the other queen enacted a desperate plan to secret their girls to the mortal world, where the king would never think to search. But there was one thing that they did not yet comprehend. Evil never came dressed as a devil; evil came disguised as a dream, as tempting as the shiny red apples they’d once consumed. If they weren’t careful, they would succumb..
Who is Everly Morrow/ The Evil Queen ?
Anyway Everly was one of these babies that was hidden in the human world by her aunt (her father being king stephen himself who tried to kill her). For years shes lived a quite happy life with her cousin (who she thinks is her biological sister Hartly) and whom she is very protective off. At least till her powers start to activate at 17. Everly is a sorceror. Sorcerers drain the magic of others to keep themselves alive even if its not actually something they can control. After her mother ends up passing due to this, Everly on advice of her uncle Nicholas flees to Enchantia in order to protect her sister as well as stake her destiny from her magic mirror which she discovers. She then meets her biological mother who has recently killed stephen and taken over...who promptly declares a wicked thing compared to her actual biological twin sister Truly who the queen favours more. So sends a bunch of trolls to kill her. (yeah..).
Anyway Everly kills the troll and ends up in the camp of Prince Roth, she decides to join their party which is looking for a way to save Roth's father who has been hit by an illness. He currently has departed with his friends including Truly who Everly tries to bond with her. Truly well bethord with roth is actually in love with his sister Farrah. Anyway she and roth bond because romance book... and she discovers his mother and elder brother were killed by a prior scorer king (whose everly's grandfather btw) giving him a major hate for them. Anyway things are working well till Truly gets into trouble and in order to save her, Everly taps into the and siphons from roth who unforenlty finds out as well as her whole lineage and the fact she lied to him, discovers that she is the way to save his father. So she ends up captured and sent their well he is stuck here for a bit (though he didnt know what his father was planning).
Now roth is busy with having to deal with centaurs who are attcking the kingosm so leaves Everly with his friends to take her back to heal his father where she meets princess farrah (fairest of them all> Hah) who they seem to gte along. Well their Roth's father hears from his oracles that the safekeeping of his kids can only be ensured by a forced marriage to everly which roth wasn't aware of he was going to pull being fair to roth. As well as the fact that she tries reaching out to farrah only to get this response.
Anyway Roth's father after marriage inteds to drain her power through the use of a coven of witches which would lead to her death in order to replinsh himself. Gaining an absoutely burning hatred of everyone in this cermeony who let this pass. One of the oracle whose given said king this advice hough is a bit more ambitious then the poor foold realises. She says to everly not to use not use her powers as the ceremony happens. Its then that everly figures it out on her own, as the various witches are beginning the draining their shields are down and since their not from this kingdom, her geas not to harm anyone from here doesnt apply. She drains them dry and roth's father dies from strain but out of kindness she does tell him that if his kids dont hurt her, she wont hurt them . Anyway Everly has decided after that since everyone has treated her as a monster , she might as well embrace it. She starts with putting the gaurds under foot by threathing their lives and has Farrah whose heartbroken over her father dying kicked out while crying over her father's corpse from her kingdom expect hartly who gets sent to Everly's old prison room. Now she sets off to turn the kingdom to her liking. So we know get the banning of the whole decpatation of your wife sthick (she did replace it with a new law where now a wife could instead decapitate her husband though which was kinda a joke), as well as the freeing of most of roth's father chalon's prisoners while covering in case she needs to escape by having a mirror placed in to teleport out. Anyway Everly's Co-Dragons (its difficult to explain) have trapped roth and his friend saxon (who spends this entire book getiing his ass kicked by every character) in a mirror dimesnion and giver her the choice whether to free him, anyway she decides to at least let him go. Anyway Farrah tries a coup for venagnce for dad, only for everly to outsmart her by using the illuiosn that end up distracting her as well as using ilusions of farah to distract her, she tries to bury the hathc with farrah but farrah still reeling over her fathers death says no and when truly tries to defend her sister, farrah turns on her too. Anyway before she escapes she s captured by saxon. Anyway farrah whose kinda devolved over this book into a ranting pyscho womanmanchild has Everly whipped in direct oppostion with her brothers orders. Honestly in roths case , dude si caught between a rock and a hard place since he actually does the sister to do well and for everly to be safe, so comes up with a sort of compromise where he keeps her locked in the tower and away from each other.
Anyway Everly is not one to let anything stop her, well in said tower, she starts to have her pet spidercoprions (spider/scoprion hybrids) bite her contsnalty in order to eventually give her immunity along with the verminous things of the kingdom to keep her compamny like magma ants. She and roth also talk and discuss stuff over months I think. In the meantime, she sues her powers to spy on the residents and spidercorpians to do her bidding, for example she discovered one of the courtiers was getting handsy with the female servants, so had them slice off all his his fingers and have the tumb taken to her, the lock on her imprsionment touch is magic finger print codieed to the servants so now shes free, she uses a mirror piece which she had her pets have it placed in her pocket. This causes her to freak and come to the tower and get her ass kicked with Everly tying her up, she then enters the ball that roth is attenting as a sort of final goodbye before leaving only for to let her go since she did spare his sister, anyway she asks when her ants (she well truly cherishes those monsters) nearly drown as they saved her life. The two sorta reconicle after this and everything seems well.
Well anyway, her uncle Nichloas though has let his hatred of everly due to his wifes accidental death turn him bitter and (in a very weird betrayel since he actually helped save her life earlier in the book) and teams up with violet who captures her allies and has Farrah murder the siren princess whod attended to steal her Enthralling voice, now having fully lost her mind, she mind controls the army and orders them to slaughter as much as want and spitefully murders Everly's genunily innocent sister Hartly out of spite (This has been a diffuclt ep due to how complex a plot this). This off course fully pisses off everly who decides to throw morality to the wind due to being the last straw, she ends up mocking farrah and inetnionally sets her off, in a blind rage farrah accidentaly stabs Truly which causes her to breakdown and everly's forces send her on the run. Nichloas decides with his forces smashed and everything turned against him to just run.
Anyway in order to save Truly, makes a deal with the forest nymph allura who bestoys on her a boost, she has Farrah and crew bound, before theatrically declaring to be their executioner (I would love to show you this speech honestly. Its great), anyway before she is about to kill farrah , roth though whose being trying to covince her to not sink to that level, When shes about to feed her the poiosned apple, roth sacrfices himself by eating it instead and as part of bis sarfcie, she spares Farrah and instead has her eternally bound to a glass coffin which will force her to experince eveyrhting bad shes ever done over and over and over again which I guess is supposed to be better (being fair if she were to ever realise she was wrong and feel guilt it would free her but since she's a Taugl Templar)....
Anyway long story short, Everly finds an antidote to roht's posion and revives him with the forest of good and evil ith the two set to now be in control of savon and the forest with things having actually worked out in her favour being the one on top as far as the villain order goes.
Magnificent ?
Well yes in terms of charisma she's got that in spades She is very much a player of theatrics and Large Ham and Deadpan Snarker. She easily owns the room in this novel. Now I admitted that she does stumble occasionally but she always picks herself up: nearly getting drained, she figured out. A way to reverse it, leaving multiple ways to escape should things go sour and even when captured she spends and manages to perfect a way to escape using her Adorable Evil Minions. Like stuff does go wrong as you can see....but she always bounces back.
And even when Nicholas , violet and farrah trie to get one up on her, she manages to still get on top albeit with heavy losses even playing in farrahs The others lose everything due to a mixture of rash decisions mixed with selfishness and . She also doesn't go in the ranting, long breakdowns that violet and Farrah go into. Nicholas uh dunno dude does end up in the run with his betrayal being honestly conning out of nowhere to the point he ends on the fact that his revenge and conquering plan has blown up in his face. Compare that to Everly who having now taken control over the forest of good and evil has ensured to be on top. And uh I'd edge her over him.
Bastard. Too much ?
Everly can do some genuinely bad things if it mean sHe gets ahead or her loved ones do well. As you may have noticed from cutting off every finger on a dude to farrah and hers or trapping farrah into Magic coffin or the banishment thing . The entire book,runs on the idea that mortality isn't black and white and that in a conflict everyone can do evil things if they believe themselves right. But she still manages to be the the least evil of that group despite everyone trying to force her their as well. She genuinely loved her adopted mother and sister(s) 's And she did try to reason with people to stop this multiple times before giving up and the ending she hasn't quite crossed the line like the others had. In essence I think off her as more of a antivillaim with standards bit is still will ing to do villainous acts if it means winning.
Conclusion ?
All yours.
In the meantime. I am preparing an ep here in a few days if a version of milady De winter from a new adaption of the three musketeers where she's bumped up to Big Bad with richelau kinda demoted. One of the prototypical The Vamp characters in fiction. Which will be fun.
Edited by miraculous on Mar 13th 2020 at 3:07:39 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Yes to Breathless and , having read the book, easy yes to Everly.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
to Morrow
to Cotton
Edited by G-Editor on Mar 13th 2020 at 3:26:01 AM
My sandbox of EPs and other stuffHow many Disney MB s now including Breathless?
Not 100% about this one, but I'm hoping for the best:
What is the work?
Scream 2 is the 1997 sequel to the 1996 Horror hit Scream. The original film focused on the teenaged Sidney Prescott and her friends being stalked and tormented by a serial killer (or rather killers) called Ghostface wearing the famous screaming ghost Halloween mask. In this film (the second one), someone else (or rather two people yet again) dawn the Ghostface persona a year later to torment Sidney yet again while she is at Windsor College. The third film from 2000 has a new Ghostface (this time, only one person) targeting Sidney and others on the set of another film in LA inspired by the killings (I love Scream 4 from 2011, but it has nothing to do with this discussion for the record). Each and every one of the seven Ghostfaces (two from the fourth film) in some way or another have either been too petty and cruel in their actions or too subservient to the other one to count for this. However, there is a character who is NOT Ghostface that I think is worth discussing.
Who is he and what has he done?
Cotton Weary is a Woodsboro resident who is one of many to have an affair with Sidney’s mother Maureen and during the events of the first film, he has been both falsely tried and convicted for raping and murdering Maureen and now faces execution by gas chamber for it after a year in prison. Reporter Gale Weathers has been working to try to prove his innocence and gotten trouble from Sidney for it whose witness testimony helped finger Cotton as the killer. However, the movie’s Ghostfaces Billy Loomis and Stu Macher are revealed to be the real perpetrators (with primary planning done by Roman Bridger, the sole Ghostface of Scream 3) and they are both killed by Sidney.
In the second film, it has been about a year and Cotton has been exonerated. Despite that, his life is still in shambles as a result of being an accused rapist and murderer and seeks to get Sidney to help turn everyone’s opinions of him around. Cotton has Gale arrange an interview and thinks Sidney agreed, but she actually did not and it ends up an ambush instead. He is at first happy, but then quickly dejected when he realizes Sidney was not actually on board and expresses his frustration about wanting to set the record straight with everyone. He later confronts her in the library after Randy Meeks is killed and when she rejects the offer to do a joint Diane Sawyer interview, he becomes loud and frustrated to the point that police question him about the killings.
Cotton later on finds Dwight "Dewey" Riley having been brutally stabbed and tries to help him. He is later seen with the blood on him by Gale and tries to explain, but she thinks he did it. Cotton eventually gets a hold of a gun and threatens both Sidney and one Ghostface Mrs. Loomis (alias Debbie Salt) with it while they are fighting. Mrs. Loomis offers to help Cotton get fame and not be looked at accusingly anymore if she lets her kill Sidney and Cotton seems inclined to agree. He suggests the Diane Sawyer interview again and the moment Sidney says "Consider it done", Cotton shoots and kills Mrs. Loomis. He then gives Sidney the gun and they help Gale up onto the stage where the other Ghostface Mickey Alterri wakes up from being shot by Mrs. Loomis and Sidney and Gale gun him down. Cotton is initially shocked and then he and Gale look on as Sidney fires one more shot into Mrs. Loomis’s head "Just in case". Sidney then gives Cotton all the credit to the press and he silently thanks her.
By the time the third film comes around, Cotton is now a highly-successful talk show host with "100% Cotton" in LA. While he is on the phone with his agent negotiating how much he would be paid to have a cameo in the third Stab movie, he is called by a woman who hits on him and he leans into it at first, until it is revealed to be Roman as Ghostface. Roman demands to know where Sidney is hiding and threatens Cotton’s girlfriend Christine Hamilton if he does not tell him. Cotton refuses and then races home to save Christine who has been fooled by Roman into thinking HE is the one attacking her. She hits Cotton with a golf club and after Roman stabs and kills her, Cotton fights him off briefly and then ends up stabbed and killed himself.
Is he magnificent?
Was on the verge of being executed for crimes he didn’t commit, but was proven innocent. I’d say that’s pretty magnificent. He is also the only non-Ghostface character besides Sidney, Dewey and Gale to kill a Ghostface as well. While he is constantly expressing his frustration at how he is still being treated as a pariah even though he did not rape or kill Maureen, his goal is to try to get the media to stop coming down on him for it. Also, while he is taken aback a bit by Gale ambushing Sidney with him, he seems more interested in getting her to agree to an interview no matter what though, to the point that he is on the campus confronting Sidney and gets accused of being the new Ghostface for his troubles too. It’s not the best approach, but it makes him more than a Guile Hero and he is definitely NOT a Hate Sink.
There is also finding Dewey wounded and trying to help him too where he ends up accused of being Ghostface again, but still played a part in Dewey surviving too apparently. A lot of this does admittedly seem circumstantial, but Cotton is constantly trying to control the narrative too though. He also manages to take the credit thanks to Sidney and get his own high-rated talk show for it too where his life until he is killed improves significantly. There is the matter of him being fooled by the voice changer and taken off-guard when it is used to fool Christine too, but he is not the only one fooled by it throughout the movie and he held his own against Roman in a fight for as long as he could.
Bastard? Too much?
His intercourse with Maureen was consensual, so he didn’t really resort to anything disgusting during it clearly. He has every right to be upset that for a year, he was imprisoned and then almost executed for crimes he never committed, but rises above that and does not become a killer for it. When he kills Mrs. Loomis, it is to save Sidney and while it seemed like he only did so because she agreed to the interview finally, he swears to her he would not have and the proof is that he protected her when he and Christine were both threatened by Roman later on, meaning he did truly not want Sidney hurt.
Yes, he might have considered cheating on Christine when he was initially called by someone he thought was another woman, but he still clearly cared and did the right thing by racing home and trying to save her. Also, it’s possible he just wanted to play along with the scenario not knowing what would end up happening. Cotton also seems to be a controversial talk show host too. On one such occasion stating in the intro of one of this shows that he was arranging for people with road rage to come on his show and be confronted about their problem. Given the popularity of his show, the things he has been doing have worked really well and it helps that he took the PR nightmare of his former conviction and managed to reshape it in the process.
Verdict?
I will say
for now.
Breathless, Cotton, and The Evil Queen. Is that the Queen you mentioned on the CM Forum, miraculous? Glad to know she both got an MB and a CM write up for the week. Speaking of which, after my Dark Multiverse Joker was a success (just ignore the Darkseid that went nowhere) I decided I'll give some (I mean one) unlucky, but brilliant duckies of the Dark Multiverse a shot.
What is the work?
Tales from the Dark Multiverse: Knightfall #1!
Who is Bruce Wayne/Batman/THE BROKEN? What does he do?
After having his back broken by Bane, Bruce leaves Jean-Paul Valley in charge of being the caped crusader. When he recovers and realizes Valley is taking things too far, he attempts to take the mantle back, but fails.
Captured by Valley, he subjects Bruce to a brutal torture, cutting off a single limb every year he doesn't agree he is what Gotham needs. By the time of the story, 30 years have gone by, and Bruce is a head and torso held up by wires and a machine. Does this break him?
Bruce is just as defiant as ever, and criticizes Valley's detective skills, as well as his reliance on venom. Valley is left unable to argue his points, and just leaves.
Later, Bruce is saved by Bane's son, Tourne, and Lady Shiva, who give him a new body made of nano bats! With it, Bruce helps them in their battle against Valley and his men. During the battle, Bruce shows that being out of commission for decades doesn't take away your ability to scare the crap out of baddies, and gets Cardinal, one half of Valley's Co-Dragons, to accidentally kill Torchbearer (the other half) by decapitating him, then he tore him up with his nano bats before tossing him down a hole, killing him.
After Valley is defeated, Lady Shiva and Tourne speak of reconnecting Gotham to the world and giving it hope, again. Then Batman says it is too late for that, and without revealing his intentions, or even letting get an inkling of what he's talking about, Bruce tears Tourne and Lady Shiva to pieces. Then he walks over to Valley and reveals he actually has bought into what Valley was saying, but dislikes Valley for his reliance on others. Victory in his hands, Bruce ties up Valley's corpse, and reveals himself to Gotham, greeted by the cheers of the people.
Look at it! Look upon all of its glory!
He is charming? Intelligent?
batman! Batman! BATMAN!
Have I mentioned I'm a huge Batman fan, yet? I'm definitely one those fans who thinks Batman can be anything, even though I'm self aware to know he actually can't 😅
Anyway, charming!
It's Batman. Yes, he is. Through out the whole thing, no one, on either side catches on to his true motives, because he actually keeps them under wraps until he is in a position to reveal them. Even then, he makes sure the people he reveals this too won't be able to tell anyone, as he immediately kills them in every instance.
Is he a bastard?
Betraying and killing the people who saved you from an And I Must Scream fate and liberated your city, just so you can become the same dictator? Yeah, he's kind of a dick.
Too much of bastard?
Nope! It's still Batman! He's badass, defiant, and smart. Plus he's a Well-Intentioned Extremist.
Verdict?
x ♾ for me!
Edited by Spooky2Cute on Mar 13th 2020 at 6:17:19 AM

Isn't Linoge on the list already? I coulda sworn...