TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Cleanup thread: Magnificent Bastard

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous post 
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

  • Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.

  • What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
    • Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
    • Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
    • Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
    • Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
    • Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.

  • What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.

  • Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.

  • What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
    • Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
    • Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
    • List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
    • The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.

  • How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.

  • What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.

  • What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.

  • What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.

  • Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.

  • What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.

  • Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.

  • What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.

  • Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.

Thread rules

When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.

Resolved items

In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.

However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.

This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.

Definitely an MB

Definitely not an MB

  • South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16151: Mar 12th 2020 at 5:28:27 AM

Honestly I agree with Kylo on that point, I know DR and that's the kind of thing it would love to put in given its sense of humour and due to both mistranslation and just what the games will take as Played for Laughs (hi, Genocider Jack) I think he's probably still got a good shot. Let's table this one, just so we aren't crafting preemptive opinions before it gets redone.

Klavice you were asking about cutting him from the page? Go for it... he'll need to be assessed her before he can keep anyways.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16152: Mar 12th 2020 at 6:48:11 AM

Also Spooky I just want to reiterate what Imperial's been saying to you. You've been nothing but helpful here and I value and appreciate your presence here and on CM. While we disagreed about Buck over there I found your counterpoints insightful and interesting so please, don't be hard on yourself about holding a particular view on a fictional character. This could well be the most difficult YMMV trope to argue followed by CM, so we're not always going to align on everything. Just keep up the great work!

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#16153: Mar 12th 2020 at 6:57:58 AM

I'll third that. You're exactly what we want to see in newcomers, and if you propose examples that don't work out? That's the point of a cleanup, we're all here to vet things together.

TiMBer1566 kittykat from Virginia Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
kittykat
#16154: Mar 12th 2020 at 7:50:04 AM

So this is my first posting on this thread...hooray I guess..

But anyway, there is a character that I've been meaning to bring up that I think might have the potential to count. The thing is though, I personally find this trope harder to identify than Complete Monster, so I might need a couple pointers on what truly makes a Magnificent Bastard. So if there's anybody to help guide me, I'd really appreciate it.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#16155: Mar 12th 2020 at 8:03:36 AM

With MB, a balance needs to be struck. A candidate cannot be too clean handed or Noble, but they cannot be too smug, vile or petty.

So, for example, an antihero generally has to do some pretty unethical things to make the cut, while a villain cannot rub their victories in their opponents faces too much, be rapists or politically incorrect villains, or otherwise have their asshole behaviour overshadow their charisma.

Also, for what it's worth, Spooky, everyone has the potential to have a missed candidate, and the effortpost was well written.

If you are interested in any work recommendations, just let me know.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16156: Mar 12th 2020 at 8:16:37 AM

So the comprising parts are technically charming, plotting and adaptable (I'm most forgiving on the latter, since I'm not going to discount someone if their initial plan works or if they maintain dignity even while their plan falls apart, etc.) but the big thing is what's the "feel" you get from the character... Hans Gruber is a certifiable monster but his screen presence is magnetic and his suaveness is always played up over his despicableness from start to finish, contrast Kim Ke-woo from Parasite who while a clever planner looking out for his family, is still emphasized to be a sleazy scumbag in spite of all the tricks he pulls.

Spooky2Cute Since: Mar, 2020
#16157: Mar 12th 2020 at 8:37:45 AM

@43110 and Lighty: Wow, thanks guys. I wasn't expecting this comfort for to a gal who just showed up to recommend Spooky. I think I'm going to like these threads grin

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#16158: Mar 12th 2020 at 8:57:35 AM

I cut this from Body of Lies:

  • Magnificent Bastard: Hani Pasha is both the most charismatic guy in the film, and one of the most cunning.

I have never seen the movie, but I would love to see a MB played by Mark Strong. Has anyone seen the movie to comment?

Edited by Bullman on Mar 12th 2020 at 10:57:50 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16159: Mar 12th 2020 at 10:27:04 AM

Haven't but if you wanna check it out he looks like he might have a shot, just going by the pages.

Klavice (Elder Troper)
#16160: Mar 12th 2020 at 12:46:34 PM

You did AMAZING Spooky. We really appreciate your input. Heck, we've all had an effortpost not go through at one point.

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#16161: Mar 12th 2020 at 1:11:40 PM

  • UFO Robo Grendizer: In Gosaku Ota's version, Science Minister Zuril is the most competent of the ruthless generals of the Vega Empire. A lover of nature, Zuril becomes personally angry at the human race after discovering their pollution of planet Earth and tries to exterminate them to save the ecosystem. After putting entire cities to sleep using special waves, he manages to murder 300,000 civilians on one occasion before retreating due to the unexpected arrival of Grendizer. When his partner Gandal uses said tactical retreat to smear Zuril's reputation, Zuril frames Daisuke Umon as a spy of the Vegans, creating angry mobs that almost succeed in killing Daisuke and his allies. When the Defense Minister Dantos is sent to Earth to replace Zuril and Gandal, they conspire to murder Dantos and his guards. In the final arc, when King Vega himself orders the use of multiple nukes in order to trigger a global nuclear war, Zuril murders the King in a tragic failed attempt to save the planet and stop the battle among his own countrymen. In the last scene, Zuril decides to help the survivors of humanity, saying that as long there's life, there's hope.

Sorry for taking so much

Watch me destroying my country
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#16162: Mar 12th 2020 at 1:14:24 PM

Yeah, I'm gonna follow with 43 and say that the Dangonronpa candidate needs to be shelved for now and re-looked into, it sounds like the skeeviness probably isn't disqualifying, but I'd like to be sure.

Alright, one more MB candidate before my write-ups, this time another G.I. Joe potential.... I'm somewhat skeptical on this one, but the character is easily the most recognizable and badass of all characters in the franchise, and this version of him comes particularly close to this trope, so let's discuss.

What's the work?

G.I. Joe: Resolute is a 2009 animated miniseries that debuted on Adult Swim and was directed by the one and only Warren Ellis. A more mature animated take on the franchise in comparison to the original cartoon of the 80s, our story follows the G.I. Joes and their latest attempt at stopping the eeeeevil forces of Cobra. While the likes of Duke and Scarlett take on Cobra itself, our candidate here takes it upon himself to dispose of a Cobra agent eith whom he has a personal grudge...

Who is Snake Eyes? What makes him a candidate?

Perhaps the most recognizable character in all of G.I. Joe, Snake Eyes is an unspeaking ninja clad in a pure black outfit and armed with his all sorts of deadly weaponry. Trained in the ways of the Arashikage clan by the Hard Master, Snake Eyes made such an impression upon the man with his natural skill that the Hard Master planned to teach Snake Eyes the "Seventh Step to the Sun," a brutal finisher to 7 strikes that can kill anyone with ease.

The Hard Master was so secretive about this technique that he taught it to no one else, even his nephew Storm Shadow (who only knew up to Six Steps to the Sun), which lead to Storm Shadow having the Hard Master assassinated, as he refused to let anyone but himself learn the Seven Steps in total. This also resulted in Snake Eyes taking a bullet through the throat and losing his voice when he tried to save the Hard Master, and, even with this wound, he struck out and knocked Storm Shadow on his ass before fleeing the place, later joining the G.I. Joes.

As the story kicks off in the present, Storm Shadow assassinates a G.I. Joe and leaves his calling card, the symbol of the Arashikage on a piece of paper at the scene. Snake Eyes quickly whips out an ultraviolet light and reveals a secret message hidden on the paper, a challenge from Storm Shadow to meet at their old training school for a final confrontation.

Departing from Joe base, Snake Eyes heads for the island of the Arashikage in the dead of night...as he leaps out of his transportation plane and glides down, he notices Cobra guards all over the place. Snake Eyes quickly and brutally begins dispatching them, first rushing a man on the docks and slashing him, before hiding and waiting for another Cobra agent to pass by, at which point Snake Eyes sneaks up, snaps his neck, then stabs him as he lays on the ground for good measure.

Stringing this Cobra soldier's body up to scare his fellow troops, some of said troops try to cut their buddy down....Snake Eyes left grenades tied to the guy's body, and when the troops try to pull his corpse down, it sets the grenades off, killing several more Cobra troops and leaving one survivor. Snake Eyes slowly approaches the man, and though the soldier fearfully opens fire, Snake Eyes effortlessly dodges the bullets and cuts the man down.

Confronting Storm Shadow at a mountaintop where their old school is located, Snake Eyes duels his longtime Arch-Enemy blow for blow, until he gains the upper hand and slashes each of Storm Shadow's wrists, deliberately scarring him across his Arashikage and Cobra tattoos just to send Storm Shadow into a rage.

When Storm Shadow momentarily overcomes his for, knocking Snake Eyes down and trying to stab him in the face? Snake Eyes holds his hand up, lets the sword stab through his own hand, then redirects the blade into the ground where he snaps it in two, kicks Storm Shadow away, and calmly pulls the broken sword out of his hand without flinching.

Though Storm Shadow is disarmed, he manages to put Snake Eyes in a vice grip and, using the "Sixth Step to the Sun", Storm Shadow smashes Snake Eyes into a wall, sending rubble and dust all around. When Storm Shadow steps closer, he realizes Snake Eyes isn't even there anymore, just in time for Snake Eyes to strike from behind, hitting Storm Shadow with the first Six Steps to the Sun, paralyzing him...though Storm Shadow mocks Snake Eyes that the Hard Master never taught Snake Eyes the Seventh Step, Snake Eyes surprises his enemy by revealing the truth: the Hard Master did teach Snake Eyes the technique before his assassination, and as Snake Eyes uses the technique to kill the crippled Storm Shadow, Storm Shadow dies in shock that Snake Eyes had never used the technique before now, showing Snake Eyes' willpower.

Giving Storm Shadow a proper burial out of honor, Snake Eyes returns to the Joes just in time to save Duke and Scarlett from a Cobra attack, effortlessly dashing up to an entire squadron of Cobra troops and cutting them down even as they scream in terror, before destroying a massive tank they had brought to the fight as well. As Duke and Scarlett step out of cover to see the resulting carnage, Snake Eyes takes a breather from the fighting to comedically give Duke an army salute, before the team finishes the mission and stops Cobra.

Is Snake Eyes magnificent in how he operates?

Absolutely, if there's one word to describe Snake Eyes in pretty much 90% of G.I. Joe stories, it's magnificent.

He can't speak, he wears a mask all the time, and yet, even still? Snake Eyes has plenty of personality here, showing care and loyalty towards the Hard Master and a desire to avenge his death, showcasing immense intelligence and quick thinking, as well as just being an all-around badass.

He dispatches an entire Cobra squadron in seconds of screentime, setting up traps to get them killed, scaring them with the corpses of their fellow troops, dodging literal bullets being shot at him to kill the sole survivor...his fight with Storm Shadow showcases his skills as well, as he stops a sword and disarms Storm Shadow by letting said sword stab through his own hand, he survives the Sixth Step to the Sun (which can break tree trunks in two) with sheer skill, tricks Storm Shadow into thinking he's dead only to pull out all Seven Steps on him...Snake Eyes is a certifiable walking WMD, with both inherent skills and intelligence to show he has cunning, quick-thinking and badassery abounding.

It's not some grand Chessmaster planning, but given he has maybe 15 minutes of screentime, Snake Eyes does a lot with it, and turns what could have just been a plain old fight through troops into a game of cat and mouse, traps, and terror.

Is Snake Eyes a bastard?

This is where things will get tricky for some...Snake Eyes' enemies are all Cobra soldiers, who are willingly serving the batshit psycho Cobra Commander (with some incentive that they'll be murdered if they try to desert, but still), and Storm Shadow is a dick who killed his own uncle as well as a G.I. Joe. So it can't be said that most if not all of Snake Eyes' victims probably deserved it.

However, I think Snake Eyes' methods might put him in the "just enough of a bastard" territory. Snake Eyes picks off literally harmless (to him) Cobra soldiers one by one with zero hesitation or attempt to just bypass them—Storm Shadow's coordinates are miles from where Snake Eyes lands, and he can easily sneak around the troops (as he shows several times), but he deliberately and extremely brutally murders them all while all they can do is scream in terror. He snaps one's neck then stabs him for good measure, he strings up a corpse to unsettle his foes and boobytraps it to blow up the ones who try to get their fellow soldier down, and that's not even getting into his fight with Storm Shadow.

During said fight, Snake Eyes tauntingly slashes Storm Shadow through his wrists along his tattoos just to enrage him, cripples him, then kills him with the Seventh Step to the Sun, just to showcase that yes, he does know it.

Snake Eyes, to me, is different than say, John McClane, who creatively kills and outsmarts terrorists out to kill innocent people. Snake Eyes wants revenge on Storm Shadow, so he infiltrates the island, kills everyone in his way, and then draws out the fight with Storm Shadow so he can wound and humiliate him, before crippling and killing him.

It's not outright villainous, but I'd say it's definitely bastardly enough.

Final Verdict?

I'd say Keep him. Snake Eyes is a brilliant strategist and badass in most works, but Resolute is one of the few where he's going out of his way to be exceptionally brutal and murderous.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#16163: Mar 12th 2020 at 1:21:21 PM

Yes to Snake Eyes, my favorite GI Joe character of all time.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16164: Mar 12th 2020 at 1:26:09 PM

Having talked this one over with you yes to Snake Eyes, I agree he’s just savage enough in dispatching helpless mooks in addition to outright monsters that I’m comfortable saying he’s dark enough.

Spooky2Cute Since: Mar, 2020
#16165: Mar 12th 2020 at 1:32:06 PM

[tup]Snakes Eyes is the best. Also, wow you guys are really good at comforting. If this is how you treat someone who basically just got here, I can’t wait to get to know you all better! grin

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#16167: Mar 12th 2020 at 1:39:08 PM

Okay I am going to ask does anyone mind if I look into Body of Lies? I'm a big fan of Mark Strong, but I don't want to take it if someone else wants to do it.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#16168: Mar 12th 2020 at 1:46:12 PM

[up] Go for it, I guess.

So, my overdue writeups:

  • Legacy: In this duology, two of the major antagonists stand out as being the deadliest and craftiest:
    • Shadar, "The Malevolent Shadow", was once the Prince Galahanzer, who faced the god of the world, Proteus, and was driven to despair upon learning the truth of humanity's past as creatures that had rejected their god. Seeking to balance the world by destroying the gods who torment humanity, Shadar became known and feared for killing overpopulated areas to maintain balance, and battles and mentors Slade, allying with him as needed, while outwitting his rivals to always come out on top. Nearly becoming a god before being stopped, Shadar returns in the sequel to implant his soul in Nero, a golem boy, whom he uses to defeat yet another rival and enters the Ether Vein to destroy it and achieve balance. Forced into a stalemate in a final stand, Shadar concedes, content with the balance achieved.
    • The aforementioned Proteus, the god of the world, once created a paradise for humanity and his demi-god children, but after being imprisoned and split into a good and evil half, the latter half became infuriated with his creation's ingratitude and resolved to wipe them out. Manipulating Rhea into becoming his pawn, the evil half of Proteus uses her to eliminate his enemies, getting the drop on Shadar and forcing his good half to engage the heroes personally to test their strength. When faced directly as the Final Boss, the evil Proteus remains undaunted and, even in his loss, merely questions if humanity is able to live on without him. Even then, he returns in the sequel under the alias Dalmar, attempting to destroy the new heroes and take back the world one last time.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#16169: Mar 12th 2020 at 2:04:17 PM

[tup]snake eyes.

Best Gi joe charcter IMO.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Klavice (Elder Troper)
#16170: Mar 12th 2020 at 2:46:25 PM

Good effortpost on Snake Eyes! [tup] to him.

From his name I assumed he would be some kind of gambler. But I remember him now! Wonderful anti hero.

Edited by Klavice on Mar 12th 2020 at 2:50:55 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#16171: Mar 12th 2020 at 3:13:12 PM

[tup] Snake Eyes.

TiMBer1566 kittykat from Virginia Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
kittykat
#16172: Mar 12th 2020 at 3:42:12 PM

Okay everyone, I reeaaalllyy hope I'm doing this right, because as I previously stated, this trope is harder for me to identify in a work than a CM, so uh, fingers crossed here.

What's the work?

Storm of the Century is a 1999 miniseries written by Stephen King. A powerful storm is hitting Little Tall Island off the coast of Maine. All access is blocked, and no one is able to leave. While trying to deal with the storm, tragedy strikes the island as an old lady is murdered by a mysterious man. Ladies and gentleman, I present to you my first candidate of this thread

Who is he? What does he do?

The Big Bad of this miniseries is Andre Linoge, a menacing stranger who seems to know the darkest secrets of inhabitants of the island and gives no hint of his motives other than the statement, "Give me what I want, and I'll go away."

Linoge is arrested by part-time constable Mike Anderson and taken to the town's holding cell. While in his cell, Linoge proves himself to more than the town bargained for by supernaturally influence citizens of the town into committing murder and suicide. Linoge reveals himself to be a demonic sorcerer and breaks out of his cell. Linoge then performs an enchantment that puts the children of the island into a unawakenable sleep. Linoge then calls a town meeting where he reveals that he desires one of the eight children sleeping. Linoge unveils his true form, a aging old man, and explains that he isn't immortal and is nearing the end of his life. Because of this, Linoge seeks a successor to carry out his legacy after his death. He threatens the town that if they don't respect his wishes he will force everyone to march into the sea, and claims to have done the same to the Roanoke colony. He then leaves to give the citizens an hour to make their decision.

The town ultimately decide to give into his demands, despite Mike's protests. Linoge returns and explain that among the eight sleeping children, one shall be chosen via a test of eight weirding stones (seven white, one black). One parent of each of the children must draw a stone. Whoever draws the black stone, their child will be taken by Linoge. The black stone is ultimately drawn by the mother of Mike's son Ralphie. Linoge thanks the town and suggest that the less they say about him to the outside world, the happier they will be. Linoge then takes Ralphie and the mother accuses Linoge of rigging the game so that he could get Ralphie, saying that he tricked them. Linoge replies by saying "you tricked yourselves", implying that he was lying about his capabilities and they tricked themselves by believing him. Linoge then leaves into the night with Ralphie as his new protege.

Disgusted by the town for giving into Linoge's demands and sacrificing his child, Mike leaves Little Tall Island and settles in San Francisco as a US Marshal. Years later, Mike is walking through the streets, and notices an old man and a teenage boy walking by, humming Linoge's favorite tune "I'm a little teapot". He calls out to the boy, realizing it is his son, now corrupted by Linoge. He chases after them into an alley, but they are gone.

Is he magnificent? Is he a bastard? too much of one?

I'd say the guy is very charismatic, he befriends young Ralphie by complimenting his birth mark and acts very courteous to everyone he meets, not once dropping his polite tone, and acts very reasonable enough to the people he's threatening. Getting arrested was just part of his plan to demonstrate his power to the town citizens, and later shows that he could've broken out anytime he wanted. As far bastard material goes, well... he kills a old lady in a very brutal fashion, forces several citizens into either murder or suicide, threatens to kill the children and everyone else in the town, and may or may not have lied about the full capabilities of his powers when he was threatening them. That said though, the guy comes across, to me personally, as less of an evil monster committing random acts of evil for the hell of it, and more like a figure that has come to make a corrupt town acknowledge their misdeeds, and points out that many of the citizen are sleazy, homophobic, unfaithful, dishonest, and just all around scummy. And with the exception of Mike, the only honestly good person on the island, he's right about all of them.

Any competition?

He's the only antagonist in the film, so not really.

Final Verdict?

My main concern regarding this EP is not if Linoge counts as MB, but whether or not if I can write a good EP on this thread. And if Linoge ends up not counting, I still think he's an outstanding antagonist.

And besides, it would be really cool if we had a Stephen King MB.

Special thanks to Sky Cat 32 and 43110 for giving me pointers.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Perentie Since: Nov, 2010
#16175: Mar 12th 2020 at 5:33:40 PM

Hope I understand correctly that I need to post this here. I think the entry for Magnificent Bitch for Edelgard on Fire Emblem Three Houses https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/FireEmblemThreeHouses needs to be edited slightly due to how I don't see how what Dimitri did to her on Azure Moon can be called an "execution." She basically forced him to kill her in self defense, as he was quite willing to spare her.


Total posts: 82,595
Top