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Cleanup thread: Magnificent Bastard

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous post 
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

  • Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.

  • What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
    • Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
    • Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
    • Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
    • Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
    • Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.

  • What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.

  • Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.

  • What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
    • Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
    • Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
    • List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
    • The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.

  • How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.

  • What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.

  • What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.

  • What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.

  • Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.

  • What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.

  • Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.

  • What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.

  • Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.

Thread rules

When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.

Resolved items

In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.

However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.

This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.

Definitely an MB

Definitely not an MB

  • South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#16051: Mar 9th 2020 at 5:34:04 PM

Tropers/{{43110}}: Yeah, now that you say it, I should have said that. However, Shadar is able to recover from being outsmarted and even pulls off a Karma Houdini which continues to the sequel. He never loses his magnificence.

Edited by MasterN on Mar 9th 2020 at 5:49:56 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#16052: Mar 9th 2020 at 6:41:59 PM

BTW. I noticed that OVA Eggman is still on the Sonic the Hedgehog page. Wasn't consensus to cut him?

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#16053: Mar 9th 2020 at 7:15:05 PM

Mods hadn't gotten to it yet.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16054: Mar 9th 2020 at 7:35:02 PM

Actually I may have forgotten... lemme double check the locked pages and if not I'll just ask now.

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#16055: Mar 9th 2020 at 9:08:00 PM

[up] Honestly, at this point, I feel like you and ACW should be made mods for services rendered. But that's just my opinion.

GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#16056: Mar 9th 2020 at 11:55:39 PM

Heh, I was about to say that Robotnik wasn't removed yet. You took the words out of my mouth, Awesomekid42 .

That being said, got another EP to try and make up for my fuck-up with Robotnik :

What's the work?

Daddy's Girl is a horror Web Original Fiction written by Jinxyy and released between October 14 and October 20, 2012.

See, Nathan had to raise alone his daughter Sarah Gail when his wife kicked the bucket when she was a baby. When Sarah Gail was a preteen, she eventually remarried Dinah, and tried to bond with Dinah's daughter Nikita, who constantly rejected each attempt to bond with him or Sarah Gail. Cue Nathan reading Nikita's diary, where it's revealed that Nikita wants him dead, thinking that herself and her mom could do without a father figure since her actual father left them. Things go From Bad to Worse for poor Nathan soon after. It starts with his laptop and glasses being stolen, and then it goes as far as a couple attempts to kill him, such as putting peanuts in his food (he's allergic), putting a snake in his car and seemingly pushing him down the stairs.

Despite that, and the fact that Nikita is a Jerkass... She's innocent. Completely.

The actual Daddy's Girl, Sarah Gail? Only has the appearance of being innocent.

Who's Sarah Gail? What has she done?

See, Sarah Gail is a Yandere. Her father raised her alone, and she grew obsessed with her father. So, when her father remarries Dinah, that's a big no non for Sarah Gail, for the same reasons Nikita seemingly wants Nathan dead : they were fine without a remarriage. Why should it happen? Nathan didn't need Dinah before and doesn't need her now. It should be just about Nathan and Sarah Gail forever and ever. That, and she read Nikita's diary as well.

So, shortly after Nathan discovers Nikita's diary, leading to Nikita snapping at Nathan for that during a dinner? Sarah Gail takes advantage of the situation and breaks Nathan's glasses first, leading to Nathan getting suspicious towards Nikita. She then proceeds to steal and hide Nathan's laptop, leading to a first of many confrontations with Nikita, the latter constantly denying for good reason any responsibility for that.

Later on, Sarah Gail put a snake in Nathan's car, before warning him not to get inside it and wondering whether or not it was venomous, thus coming off as a lifesaver to Nathan, who openly believes Nikita did it and grounds her.

Later on, Sarah Gail, donning a white ski mask and a black robe, pushes Nathan down the stairs in what seems to be an attempt to kill him, only worsening his relation with Nikita and Dinah.

By that time, the atmosphere in the house became chilly, with Dinah and Nathan barely talking to each other, and Nikita glaring at anyone in the house. Only Sarah Gail remained the every cheerful person. She then put in Nathan's meal peanut butter. See, Nathan is allergic to that, but is fortunately saved Just in Time.

Finally, Sarah Gail put a knife under Nikita's pillow, and showed it to Nathan as if she just discovered it. That was pretty much the last straw for Nathan, and Nikita, kicked out of the house, is implied to have been institutionalized. However, after doing just that, Dinah comes back home. With no Nikita left to put the blame on, Sarah Gail kills her when she's asleep. Nathan is promptly awaken by Dinah's scream, and can only watch as she dies. Sarah reveals then how she masterminded the whole ordeal because she wanted her dad all to herself. The story ends with Sarah Gail lying down between Dinah's corpse and a Nathan paralyzed by sheer fear, with no indication Sarah Gail got any comeuppance for her crimes.

Is she charming? Intelligent?

Sarah Gail fools everyone start to finish, keeps her innocent Nice Girl act, and her true nature (an Affably Evil manipulator) is only revealed in the very last chapter as a Wham Episode. Her gambit to get rid of Dinah was a Xanatos Gambit : in her own words, "If you thought Niki was trying to kill you, then either Dinah wouldn't believe you and you guys would get so mad that you'd get a divorce, or else you would send Dinah and Niki away.". She plays on her father's paranoia like a fiddle, and makes sure to plant "evidence" on Nikita at the most suspicious moments. The whole snake thing was done when Nikita snuck out of home, for example. Her most blatant mistake, killing Dinah, could've been devastating for her if Nathan wasn't paralyzed by sheer terror of his own daughter's true nature, with no evidence that she'll get any comeuppance for her crimes. She almost fucked up as well when Nathan almost caught her putting in her suitcase his laptop, but Nathan was more focused on Nikita, especially after she seemingly broke his glasses, and merely asked Sarah Gail about Nikita's location.

Thinking on her feet?

When Dinah comes back after institutionalizing Nikita, which was unexpected for Sarah Gail, the latter kills Dinah the literal second she and Nathan are asleep.

What about the competition?

None. Sarah Gail managed to keep her Nice Girl facade through the whole story, while slowly manipulating events in her favor.

Is she a bastard?

Sarah Gail is a manipulator planning to frame Nikita for attempted murder, poisons Nathan in the ordeal and almost kills him, and kills Dinah. The whole reason is because she's a Yandere obsessed with her own father (the end is shown as Nightmare Fuel). Yup, that's enough of a bastard.

Too much of a bastard?

Nowhere near the baseline heinous standard for a horror Web Original Fiction, especially when compared to, let's say, Evangeline. She was perfectly fine with manipulating Dinah and Nikita into merely leaving and only took murder as the last solution, when Dinah came back with no Nikita around to take the blame. Her whole motive is also a clear-cut case of Love Makes You Evil.

Any other mitigating factors?

None that I can think of. Yanderes such as Satou went up beforehand, so, motive-wise, I can't really see anything mitigating about her. Anything remotely rapey or incestuous in the end, with Sarah Gail lying down between her terrified dad and Dinah's corpse, doesn't goes any farther than Fridge Horror.

Verdict ?

I'll let you guys decide.

Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Jan 1st 2022 at 10:42:37 AM

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#16057: Mar 10th 2020 at 4:43:27 AM

Abstain on Sarah Gail.

Spooky2Cute Since: Mar, 2020
#16058: Mar 10th 2020 at 7:07:42 AM

I'm relatively new here, but screw it, I really want to see if this'll work. Hi, by the way, and [tup] Sarah.

What is the work?

Spooky's Jump Scare Mansion is Affectionate Parody that also functions as genuine horror game.

The story is about an amateur historian going to a Haunted House on the hill that has been around longer then the people in town can remember. There, they encounter Spooky, who challenges the unnamed Player Character to go through 1,000 rooms. As I mentioned above, as you move through the mansion, this Affectionate Parody suddenly whiplashes into genuinely scary and atmospheric.

Who is Spooky? What does she do?

In the early sixties, Spooky was a 12-year-old girl with a desire to scare people, but was too cute to do so. Determined, Spooky bought some firecrackers and fake blood, but while she successfully scared someone, they turned out to be a Shell-Shocked Veteran who shot her dead. Spooky wasn't done, however. She still wanted to scare people, and when her dad brought her back, she gained another opportunity.

Starting GL Labs, Spooky has them track down Specimens to make them apart of her mansion. Capturing over a dozen monsters, Spooky has them placed in a Genius Loci mansion that can contain both them and bizarre landscapes the Specimen's can reside in.

Through this mansion Spooky has gotten thousands killed (some of whom are her own scientists) by her specimens for her plans, and intends on making our Player Character one of them. Throughout the game, Spooky will constantly hamper the player's progress, keeping a playfully sarcastic attitude all the way through. When the player successfully makes it through a thousand rooms, Spooky "congratulates" them, blatantly irritated at their survival, only for her confidence to immediately return when she sends the Final Boss at the player, Specimen 9

No matter what the player does, Spooky will always win. You'll either become a specimen, or a ghost to fight in Spooky's army. The latter ending has Spooky ready to take over the Earth with her new army of ghosts, just as determined as ever to prove she isn't cute.

Is she charming? Intelligent?

Yes and yes. It's fake, but Spooky chats with the player in an almost endearing manner, coming off as pretty Adorkable and unassuming. She also keeps up her confidence for the entire game, only dropping it for a few seconds when the player gets through all a thousand rooms. As for intelligence, Spooky can't fail, and she never has. Every time a Specimen has escaped, Spooky was aware and intentionally let the creature escape so she could test it out on her employees, and both endings of the main game end with her on top. The only ending which can be considered a defeat for her is the "No Specimen" ending, but considering the entire point of that version of the game is that there is no threat, it's only there to mock the play for their lack of bravery.

Thinking on her feet?

By all accounts, the Player Character seems to be the first person to give Spooky any real trouble. Though they managed to survive both Specimens and Spooky's attempts to hamper their progress, Spooky will always get the last laugh, turning them into a specimen or getting them killed to recruit them into her ghost army.

Competition?

Spooky is the only character in the game that's given any sort of character. Specimens are essentially mindless killing machines with no signs of intelligence, and everyone else is just victims who leave behind notes. Your character isn't given any character, and even if they were, they're not manipulative or amoral in anyway.

Is she a bastard?

Oh yes, Spooky is a snarky Jerkass at the best of times. From getting thousands killed, to leaving her men to die just to test out a specimen, and finally turning the player into a specimen or killing them for her Take Over the World army, Spooky is demented little thing.

Too much of a bastard?

No. Spooky is funny, chatty, laid back, and pretty entertaining, despite it being Faux Affably Evil all the way through. She comes off as Adorkable on a few instances, and her backstory is shown to be genuinely sad.

Mitigating Factors?

It's clear that Spooky isn't intentionally malicious, as her parents bringing her back from the dead to wish her goodbye resulted in her coming back wrong, so her moral agency is pretty skewered. That said, Spooky still has enough intelligence and character, and she pulls this whole thing off with barely (if any) set backs.

Verdict?

[tup] from me, but I'll let you guys decide.

GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#16059: Mar 10th 2020 at 7:41:34 AM

Welcome Spooky2Cute! Yes to your candidate!

EDIT : After reconsideration, I'll switch to an abstain. Offing thousands for a goal that can be summed up as "wanting to be scary, not cute" comes off as very petty, especially for a video game subject to Mood Whiplash. That being said, if she Came Back Wrong as the EP stated, I'm willing to give her a leeway.

Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Mar 10th 2020 at 5:52:19 PM

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Spooky2Cute Since: Mar, 2020
#16060: Mar 10th 2020 at 10:03:26 AM

[up]Is your issue the body count or the petty motive? I didn't think body count affected considering some of the baddies I've seen he listed have lead to millions dying, but if it's the petty, I understand. Still, I think her Came Back Wrong justifies that, as her Ghostly Goals completely overtook the innocent 12-year-old who just wanted to scare people.

GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#16061: Mar 10th 2020 at 10:28:52 AM

It's more about the motive indeed. The bodycount in itself is of little issue. We have Chayne Prime who attempted to destroy a million worlds. She still counts.

Heck, that would be hypocritical coming from me to say anything about the bodycount. One of my all-time favorite MBs, Olrik, has a bodycount and an attempted bodycount that is largely superior to Spooky's.

Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Mar 10th 2020 at 6:31:36 PM

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Spooky2Cute Since: Mar, 2020
#16062: Mar 10th 2020 at 10:40:55 AM

[up]Yeah, I was going to bring up others with high body counts. That said, again, it is pretty clear Spooky has lost moral agency. There was nothing to suggest she was a bad little girl before she died. In fact, outside of trying to scare people, she was so beloved the reason she came back is because her dad wanted to, at the very least, say goodbye.

Also, there is a little message at the end of the slideshow that shows her origin: "I just wanted to be taken seriously, I just wanted to scare people. They overreacted, but I don't blame them. At least I actually scared someone."

I know theories probably aren't the best for these forums, but I'm pretty sure the message was written by Spooky before got brought back. Spooky, sociopathic little monster that she is, forgiving her murderer compared to the hundreds of innocent people she slaughtered, especially with how serious the message sounds compared to her usual Laughably Evil antics, doesn't exactly sound in character for her.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#16063: Mar 10th 2020 at 10:48:37 AM

Never played the game, so can't comment much.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#16064: Mar 10th 2020 at 10:49:11 AM

I dunno. I'm kinda feeling this one. I mean, the motive by the standard and context of the work makes sense and there seem to be mitigating enough qualities to offset the vileness which is the reason Chayne counts to begin with since in sheer vileness she also lets Complete Monster Naberius operate with some level of freedom and has wiped out the world countless times. It's her charisma and her love for her daughter, plus an Alas, Poor Villain that keeps her here.

We have lots of villains who kill tons of people in varying circumstances or try to end reality, start bloody wars, etc. I think she hits the sweet spot of "not too vile, decent enough character, good enough planner" before it gets to "too much of a bastard" which I usually reserve for supreme pettiness, sex crimes or overly-awful torture.

Spooky2Cute Since: Mar, 2020
#16065: Mar 10th 2020 at 10:53:01 AM

[up]I think the issue is more the petty motivation.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#16066: Mar 10th 2020 at 10:57:30 AM

I feel fine with Spooky's inclusion. Doesn't really strike me as "too vile."

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#16067: Mar 10th 2020 at 10:57:56 AM

I get that but...I don't mind it? Like sure the motive may be more personal but I don't think it's enough to override the style throughout it?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#16068: Mar 10th 2020 at 10:58:43 AM

[tup]spooky.

Honestly we have guys who've done way worse. Plus the style mixed with a legit sad backstory pushes her over for me.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#16069: Mar 10th 2020 at 11:14:20 AM

Yes to Spooky, welcome to the thread Sarah.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#16070: Mar 10th 2020 at 12:28:20 PM

Sure to Spooky. Welcome to the thread, Spooky 2.

Spooky2Cute Since: Mar, 2020
#16071: Mar 10th 2020 at 12:31:56 PM

[up][up]I'm glad this Sarah person also joined the thread with me! [lol]

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#16073: Mar 10th 2020 at 12:47:48 PM

Switching back to a yes to Spooky then!

Any other opinion on Sarah Gail's EP?

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#16074: Mar 10th 2020 at 1:25:13 PM

Unsure with Sarah. With Satou, though, it's made clear that she has her standards. In the manga when her aunt asks Shio if she and her niece took their relationship further, Satou immediately shuts that down saying their relationship was nothing of that sort. That, and it's ultimately a familial one.

GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#16075: Mar 10th 2020 at 2:10:12 PM

Understandable. But similarly, Sarah Gail makes clear that her love for her father, as obsessive as it is, is nowhere near anything remotely incestuous nor rapey. She just wants things to go back the way they used to be : Nathan raising her on his own before Dinah and Nikita came in the picture.

Sarah Gail is a clear-cut Daddy's Girl who's love for her dad drove her to villainy that doesn't comes anywhere near the baseline, especially since, like Satou, she only chooses murder as the last solution, with only one person she actually killed.

Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Mar 10th 2020 at 10:13:53 AM

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)

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