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Cleanup thread: Magnificent Bastard

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous post 
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

  • Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.

  • What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
    • Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
    • Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
    • Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
    • Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
    • Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.

  • What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.

  • Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.

  • What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
    • Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
    • Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
    • List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
    • The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.

  • How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.

  • What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.

  • What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.

  • What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.

  • Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.

  • What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.

  • Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.

  • What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.

  • Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.

Thread rules

When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.

Resolved items

In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.

However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.

This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.

Definitely an MB

Definitely not an MB

  • South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#15601: Feb 12th 2020 at 1:19:14 PM

[tup] to the quote and image

You know I bet there are still plenty of magnificent bastards to be discovered in both Star Wars and G.I. Joe

Edited by G-Editor on Feb 11th 2020 at 11:22:48 PM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#15602: Feb 12th 2020 at 5:22:40 PM

Right, here goes...

What is the Work?

6 Underground is a 2019 action film distributed by Netflix. Directed by Michael Bay, it chronicles the exploits of a team of vigilantes.

Who is the Candidate and what do they do?

One (Ryan Reynolds) is the codename of an unnamed genius billionaire (no word on playboy) philanthropist, the central character, and the leader of the Ghosts. One made his fortune in neodymium magnets and became aware of the plight of a Central Asian country known as Turgistan, led by President Rochav Alimov. One day, One is at a makeshift refugee hospital when he witnesses the Turgistan air force gas-bomb the hospital. Four years after the attack, One fakes his death and recruits five other individuals to fake their deaths, take code names, and form a vigilante squad to take down terrorists and governments when no one else will. They are: a CIA spook known as Two, a Professional Killer called Three, a Le Parkour thief called Four, a doctor called Five, and a driver called Six.

The Ghosts' first objective is to get any information out of the lawyer of Turgistan's top generals; they remove his eye and One uses it to unlock his phone. The Ghosts escape, but Six is killed. One finds a US sniper named Blaine suffering from Survivor's Guilt and persuades him to fake his death and join the team. After explaining his own past (but not his name), One reveals his plan to depose President Alimov and replace him with his brother Murat, who is more popular and nicer. One gets the top generals into Las Vegas and sends them a bunch of hookers to distract them while Two and Three lie in wait to assassinate them. When that's done, the Ghosts travel to Hong Kong to extract Murat. The operation succeeds, but Four is pinned down and nearly killed until Seven bails him out by shooting his attacker just before they get out of range. After One and Seven argue about One's policy of leaving people to die, the team decides to reveal their first names.

Sneaking into Turgistan during the Day of the Dead festivities, One hacks the official news channel so Murat can inspire a revolt. The Ghosts plant bombs around the city to flush Rochav out, forcing him to flee to his yacht. Stowing away on the yacht, the Ghosts engage Rochav's guards in a brutal firefight, during which One activates a magnetic device that pins most of the guards to the walls. Four finds himself in trouble and One has to decide to rescue him or pursue Alimov, eventually deciding to rescue Four. Alimov attempts to flee, but the Ghosts commandeer his escape helicopter. One flies him to the refugee center that was bombed, then drops Alimov into the crowd, allowing them to beat him to death. The Ghosts part ways until their next mission, with One visiting his son in New York to pass his fortune to should he die.

Is he intelligent and manipulative?

Yes. He's an inventor, chessmaster and strategist. He's taking the initiative to take down Alimov, sends prostitutes to soften up the four generals as a distraction, and makes sure there's someone in place to run Turgistan once Rochav Alimov is out of the way.

Is he a bastard?

Yes. While not a Villain Protagonist, he's not a nice person and is perfectly okay with leaving a team member to die if they find themselves with no way out and has to learn to be more trusting. He also causes numerous deaths with his magnets when they pin Mooks to walls and they get impaled by various implements. And then he dumps Alimov into a crowd of people to be beaten to death. Granted Alimov is a genocidal paranoid Jerkass who'd try to kill his brother at any moment, but still.

Too much?

No. One was a philanthropist before going to Turgistan and wants to help the world in any way he can. He's definitely not the largest bastard in the film (that title belongs to Alimov being a Complete Monster) and he's undeniably going up against someone far worse than he.

Competition?

Not much. Alimov's a Complete Monster and One is the most active planning force.

Verdict?

[tup].

Edited by k410ren on Feb 12th 2020 at 8:40:00 AM

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Klavice (Elder Troper)
#15608: Feb 12th 2020 at 6:31:14 PM

Anyone think a picture of Edelgard as the Flame Emperor or Black Knight Zelgius would make a good page image for the Fire Emblem page? Yes to One and the Star Wars and G.I. Joe pages btw.

Edited by Klavice on Feb 12th 2020 at 6:31:56 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#15609: Feb 12th 2020 at 7:39:39 PM

Yes to one and @ Klavice, maybe, you're going to want something with Chess Motifs or the like going on.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#15611: Feb 13th 2020 at 5:26:01 AM

[tup]One

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#15612: Feb 13th 2020 at 5:42:36 AM

Was Satan from Devilman discussed here?

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#15613: Feb 13th 2020 at 5:46:48 AM

I think he's on the Anime and Manga subpage IIRC.

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#15614: Feb 13th 2020 at 6:26:05 AM

Would I have clearance to start a MB killcounts sandbox?

And do I have enough votes to draft One?

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#15615: Feb 13th 2020 at 7:50:43 AM

@k4 That's about ten votes, so yeah, you do.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#15616: Feb 13th 2020 at 8:44:44 AM

Yeah I just forgot to update pending.

Also I’d be game for any trivia tab you’d like to keep K410, as I liked the CM ones you made.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#15617: Feb 13th 2020 at 8:51:13 AM

Feel free to do anything or nothing with this, but I feel with the Speed Grahper dude, Well-Intentioned Extremist should be somewhere in his entry. Maybe around "completely erasing the corrupt upper class and causing a massive financial crisis to completely break their hold on Japan forever."? Or if that's too much, maybe just around "completely erasing the corrupt upper class".

Mind if I give it a shot?

  • Speed Grapher: Chōji Suitengu is a man who flaunts his extensive wealth via using expensive yen notes as cigars, believing everything "has its price", especially human life. In truth, Suitengu is dedicated to overthrowing the social order of Japan, manipulating all the upper echelons of society with his Roppongi Club that caters to a variety of fetishes. Constantly planning ahead of series hero Saiga, Suitengu also manipulates his lover, Shinzen of the powerful Tennozou Group and later disposes of her when she attempts to betray and kill him. Revealing his tragic past to his Arch-Enemy, Prime Minister Katsuji Kamiya, when the latter tries to kill Suitengu and take over the Roppongi Club, Suitengu kills him and enacts his master plan: causing a massive financial crisis to completely erase the corrupt upper class and completely break their hold on Japan forever.

It's at the Drafts; do with it as you like.

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#15618: Feb 13th 2020 at 10:59:46 AM

Draft for One.

  • 6 Underground: One is the codename of a philanthropist who witnessed the massacre of a civilian hospital by Turgistan President Rochav Alimov. He then fakes his death and recruits five specialists to form a vigilante squad known as The Ghosts, with the caveat that they'll be left to die if their mission is in jeopardy. Masterminding a scheme to depose President Alimov and replace him with his more sympathetic brother Murat, One recruits a sniper to replace one of their lost crewmembers before luring Alimov's generals to Las Vegas, using hookers to distract them before the team kills them. After freeing Murat from armed guard in Hong Kong and deciding to make the team more cohesive after an argument, One hacks Turgistan's network so Murat can inspire a revolt, then flushes Alimov out with a series of bombs. When the team pursues Alimov to a yacht, One uses a device to turn the entire ship into a giant magnet, killing many of Alimov's men before capturing Alimov and dumping him into the same refugee camp that was massacred, allowing the refugees to beat Alimov to death for his crimes.

Edited by k410ren on Feb 13th 2020 at 5:55:38 AM

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#15619: Feb 13th 2020 at 2:33:02 PM

ACW I'm cool with it; K410 that's over-potholed and we don't put in The Chessmaster, since it's redundant for MBs... can you play around with it a bit?

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#15620: Feb 13th 2020 at 2:54:47 PM

Sure. Just took out some of the potholes.

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#15621: Feb 13th 2020 at 9:57:08 PM

'Yes' to the One

And now, before I get to a duo written by a fellow Troper....to justify that G.I. Joe page? Let's talk our seventh Keeper, from the original G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero (Marvel) comic series by Larry Hama, our first to come from the original man himself's pen.

Who is he? What makes him a candidate?

The man known only as Kwinn is an Inuit native who has worked for the CIA, KGB, and even MI-6 over the years, training and honing his abilites to the point that he is now a freelance Special Ops agent, willing to do most any kind of work for the right amount of money.

Kwinn is renowned for his tracking skills, fighting capabilities, and honorable nature,—always fulfilling his contracts, refusing to lie, and never divulging information on his clients to any living person.

We first meet Kwinn alllllllll the way in the mere second issue of the comic, where he has been hired by Russians to track down a research lab in the North Pole and recover a transmitter that has the capability of literally spreading fear and paranoia...Kwinn easily tracks the base across the frozen wastelands and recovers the transmitter, leaving a bomb to destroy the evidence.

As the G.I. Joes—also hunting the transmitter—track down Kwinn to a campfire, they pull their guns on him, only for it to be revealed that Kwinn set up a decoy to distract them. A decoy laced with plastic explosives, tied to a trigger that, should Kwinn let go of, will explode and kill them all. Smashing the Joes' radio and stealing their guns, Kwinn reveals the details of his mission to them out of respect at their obvious skills, and when they mention they thought Kwinn never told anyone about his contracts, he corrects them....he never tells living people the details of his contracts, before leaving them to die in the snows.

The ever-skillful Joes, however, track down and lay a trap for Kwinn, one that he easily sees through before beginning to duel the team, complimenting their fighting styles but nonetheless bragging that they are nothing compared to the actual polar bears Kwinn has fought, and won, against. When Snake Eyes manages to retrieve one of the group's stolen weapons and tries to shoot Kwinn, Kwinn reveals he took the firing pins out of all of their stolen weapons and put them on his necklace as a good luck charm against bullet fire, noting happily that it's worked.

Though beating the Joes, Kwinn nonetheless expresses intense respect for the group, and notes that he truthfully dislikes his current mission due to his belief that fear is the greatest source of evil in the world, but remarks his ethics prevent him from reneging on his contract.......later, Kwinn, having left the Joes behind, meets up with his Russian contacts at the edge of a water pathway, where they are waiting for a boat to pick them up in a few hours. Kwinn gives them the transmitter in exchange for his money....then informs them that the Joes are coming. The Russians demand Kwinn to protect them, but Kwinn notes that his contract is over, and leaves the Russians while revealing that he left the firing pins one mile from their location to give the Joes a fighting chance, as Kwinn truthfully wants the transmitter destroyed.

Later appearing in #12, Kwinn is working for Cobra, assigned to the vile Dr. Venom as his personal bodyguard. When several Joes show up and capture Venom, Kwinn pops out, disarms 3 of the Joes, then remarks that he didn't disarm Snake Eyes simply because he can tell from a glance that Snake Eyes' gun is out of ammo, and implores the Ninja to surrender quietly and no one will be hurt. Venom, being the massive dick that he is, viciously pistol whips Snake Eyes repeatedly, seemingly to death...a very displeased Kwinn notes to Venom that, as soon as his contract his up, he has plans to teach Venom a lesson for being such a little shithead.

When a surviving Snake Eyes tracks his captured teammates to a Cobra base, Kwinn is the first one to notice Snake Eyes' presence through sheer heightened senses, and puts the Joes on the run...though Venom nearly shoots Kwinn in the back during this distraction, Snake Eyes saves Kwinn due to their mutual respect.

Kwinn then saves the life of himself, Snake Eyes and, by extension, Venom, by shoving them into a secure bunker when Baroness tries to blow them all up...the bunker becomes sealed, and Kwinn convinces Venom and Snake Eyes to work with him to escape, though Kwinn never once trusts Venom, taking to calling him "the weasel". Working together, the group are able to open the door to the bunker as it sinks, with Kwinn single-handedly holding the heavy steel door open, but from this vulnerable position, Venom is able to smash Kwinn's head with a wrench and seemingly leave him to drown.

When Venom and Snake Eyes surface and are captured by Cobra troops who plan to kill them, a rather annoyed Kwinn rises out of the water as well, instantly massacring the Cobra troops and saving Snake Eyes and Venom, sparing the latter only so he can pilot the plane to their freedom. As the trio flee, Venom tries to throw Kwinn and Snake Eyes out of the plane, which Kwinn single-handedly prevents. He only spares Venom at this point because, in his own words, "A man who whips his dog will pull a sled of own someday".

Though arrested by authorities after the plane crash lands and they are betrayed by Venom, Kwinn breaks himself and Snake Eyes out of jail with a hidden sawblade in his boot, before the duo use a single hundred dollar bill to con a group of gamblers out of their car. Tracking Venom down by interrogating the Cobra agent Scarface, Kwinn and Snake Eyes are ambushed by a small army of Cobra soldiers....while Kwinn holds them off, Snake Eyes hops into Cobra armor to help him fight, but unfortunately, Venom takes control of the armor and uses it to incapacitate Kwinn and lock him in a set of armor as well, that Mind Rape(s) the user the whole time they wear it.

As Kwinn and Snake Eyes are forced to march on G.I. Joe base and attack them, Snake Eyes manages to break free of the suit's control and Kwinn, having spotted weaknesses in the armor, tells Snake Eyes where to shoot his own suit to free him. Once freed, Kwinn grabs up the fallen cannon of a massive turret, uses it to blast Venom's tank, and grab the snivelling coward who begs for mercy.

It is at this point that Kwinn realizes, as he realizes how truly pathetic "the weasel spirit" has made Venom, that Kwinn himself has been allowing his inner "weasel" to control his actions and thirst for vengeance, and proclaims that he is going to spare Venom's life "to squandor it as he will."

As Kwinn calmly turns his back on Venom and leaves the man in his patheticness, Venom grabs a gun and shoots Kwinn in the back...even as Venom mocks and taunts Kwinn and his beliefs, Kwinn simply replies "There is no anger left in me. I've made my peace with the weasel. Kwinn will not harm you as long as he lives, I promise", before he falls down dead.

Venom then realizes....Kwinn was holding a live grenade this whole time, only able to go off if he released it. And as Kwinn drops dead, he releases the grenade, which rolls right up to a horrified Venom, who uses his last words before the grenade kills him to realize that Kwinn was correct—he wouldn't harm Venom as long as he lived. As soon as he died, however.....

Kwinn gained such respect from the usually stoic Snake Eyes, that the ninja gave Kwinn a proper Inuit burial afterwards.

Is Kwinn magnificent in how he operates?

Very much so. Kwinn is a stellar character and example of a wise Eskimo for the 80s, being thoughtful, spiritual, and well-spoken, while simultaneously brutal, efficient, and villainous (to a point). Kwinn often speaks in parables and refers to forces of cowardice, vengeance, and just plain evil as "the spirit of the weasel", and acknowledges how he is letting it consume him in his quest for Venom, before finally coming to terms with the fact that he doesn't want to feel such anger and hate, coming to terms with "the weasel" and letting go of his hate—while simultaneously getting his revenge on Venom even in death.

Kwinn is smart, resourceful, respects enemies who are deserving of it, and honorable in following his contracts, even to the likes of Venom. Venom's slimy intelligence now and then allows him to get the drop on Kwinn, but it never lasts, as Kwinn always comes out on top of their confrontations right to the very end, where Kwinn practically allows Venom to kill him so as to then destroy Venom.

Is Kwinn a bastard?

I'd say yes. Kwinn works for the baddies (be they Russians or Cobra), and though he never kills an innocent person (even noting that he hates killing anything he can't consume for sustenance), he still can and will ruthlessly try to murder the Joes, as well as his quest for vengeance against Venom involving threats of mutilation to Cobra soldiers as interrogation methods, and killing Cobra troops by the dozen. And despite his disgust at his employers' actions, Kwinn will always fulfill a contract, even if afterwards he works against his employers to prevent their ultimate success.

Final Verdict?

I think Kwinn is a fine Keep, our latest for G.I. Joe.

Edited by Ravok on Feb 13th 2020 at 10:00:47 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#15622: Feb 13th 2020 at 10:16:01 PM

[tup]Kwinn

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#15624: Feb 13th 2020 at 11:09:31 PM

[tup] to Kwinn

Edited by G-Editor on Feb 13th 2020 at 9:12:06 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature

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