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Cleanup thread: Magnificent Bastard

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous post 
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

  • Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.

  • What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
    • Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
    • Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
    • Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
    • Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
    • Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.

  • What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.

  • Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.

  • What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
    • Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
    • Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
    • List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
    • The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.

  • How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.

  • What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.

  • What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.

  • What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.

  • Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.

  • What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.

  • Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.

  • What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.

  • Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.

Thread rules

When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.

Resolved items

In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.

However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.

This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.

Definitely an MB

Definitely not an MB

  • South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#11076: Jul 14th 2019 at 6:21:26 AM

Don't have a whole lot of time so I'm going to fire this out real quick:

  • Ashita no Nadja: Rosemary Applefield, believing Nadja was stealing the princess life Rosemary had always dreamed of away from her and casting her aside, becomes a willing participant in Hermann Preminger's schemes and proves herself a deceptive, manipulative, and ruthless schemer in her own right at only age 13. Pretending to be the long lost Nadja Preminger to the Duke and to Nadja's mother, Rosemary charms everyone with her elegance, courtesy, and seeming innocence, which proves useful when implicating the real Nadja, the Black Rose, and even the Applefield orphanage in alleged crimes against her. When Nadja confronts her, Rosemary feigns being an Unwitting Pawn before shredding Nadja's most cherished dress right before her eyes. In a later meeting Rosemary emotionally agitates Nadja into nearly assaulting her, which gets the police to go after Nadja. Nadja returns to prove her identity, but Rosemary counters her claims with quick thinking and skillful manipulation of others in the room. After getting what she'd wanted but finding Victory Is Boring, Rosemary is quick to denounce her alliance with Hermann, who himself has come to fear her, and when proven to be a fraud, she shows herself to be a Graceful Loser and imparts advice to Nadja before leaving the manor of her own accord, receiving no punishment for her actions and even earning Nadja's respect.
  • Death Note: L Lawliet is the world's best detective and the Arch-Enemy and only intellectual equal of Light Yagami aka Kira. Introducing himself by tricking Light into revealing his location by sacrificing a death row inmate, L goes on to pursue Light with unfettered ruthlessness. With only mundane resources at his disposal, L manages to constantly evade Light's supernaturally-backed attempts to kill him and becomes ever-closer to exposing Light for his crimes. Even when Light deliberately loses his memories of his work as a Serial Killer, L continues to close in on his enemy and is only finally killed when Light convinces a Shinigami to take out L by giving its own life. Having left a fail-safe to inform his successors of his passing, L's posthumous machination leaves Near and Mello the field to finally take down Light, leaving his rival to scream and plead for his life before his own death.
  • Dragon Ball: Demon King Piccolo formed after the Nameless Namek who would become Kami expelled his evil was the Earth's most dangerous threat yet. His previous reign was thwarted when the martial artist Mutaito performed a Heroic Sacrifice to seal him away. Upon being released centuries later, learning from his prior defeat Piccolo had sent his children to hunt down and dispose of every martial artist in the world as a precaution. When Goku kills his children, rather than shrug their deaths off Piccolo confronts the problem directly, beating Goku so thoroughly that his heart stops. Coming into conflict with Roshi, Piccolo lets Roshi hide his Dragonballs and swallows his own. Summoning Shenron to restore his youth, he kills the eternal dragon after his wish has been fulfilled. Continuing his dark reign over the Earth, King Piccolo all but wins. Even after his death the demon king spits out an egg that carries his reincarnation to finish where he left off. As cool as he was evil, King Piccolo was fondly remembered for being one of the first truly threatening adversaries.
  • Blake and Mortimer: In The Secret of the Swordfish, the colonel Olrik, Blake and Mortimer's nemesis, is the military advisor of Basam-Damdu, the emperor of the Yellow Empire. One of his first acts is to immediately kill a Reverse Mole the second he learns about him. Pursuing Blake and Mortimer to gain the plans of the Swordfish (La Résistance's weapon, which should allow it to retaliate once finished), Olrik is relentless, scouting the surroundings when Blake and Mortimer's damaged vehicles were found, suspecting the duo of faking their deaths. Through his smarts, he almost killed Blake and Mortimer several times (trapping the location they were supposed to go, sending armored tanks after their truck), only stopped by exterior elements. He also captured Mortimer, and outsmarts one of his attempts to communicate with Blake by using the paper Mortimer wrote his message to light his pipe. When Mortimer escapes, Olrik disguises himself as a prisoner and infiltrates a group of prisoners members of the Resistance, helps them escape, infiltrate their underwater base, sabotages it, and escapes even when found out, thanks to his adaptability. Ruthless and talented, Olrik was begrudgingly respected even by his nemeses.
  • The Wire: Omar Devon Little is a "stick-up man" in Baltimore who robs drug dealers for a living. His first episode has him robbing one of Avon Barksdale's Stash houses. Avon puts out a hit on him and his crew and manages to succeed in killing one of his crew and torturing Omar's boyfriend to death. Over the course of the next three seasons, Omar retaliates against the Barksdale organization, culminating in him killing Stringer Bell, Avon's right-hand man. In part due to Omar's actions, the Barksdale organization collapses soon after. In season 4 Omar robs Marlo Stanfield, a new westside kingpin. Marlo, wanting revenge, frames Omar for murder. Omar beats the charge, and then blackmails Proposition Joe, another kingpin, into giving up Marlo's new drug shipment, though Omar double-crosses Joe and then steals a much larger shipment instead of Marlo's. Omar then sells it back to Joe and announces his retirement. In season 5, Marlo, who still wants revenge, has Omar's mentor killed. Omar returns to Baltimore, but he is briefly outgunned. He then goes on a warpath and calls Marlo out to face him. While he dies before this can come to fruition, the taunts prove to be very effective, as by the end of the series Marlo has faded into obscurity whereas Omar has become a legend.
  • Legacy of Kain:
    • Once a petty noble in the world of Nosgoth, murdered and revived as a vampire, Kain has chafed at the tyranny of fate. Establishing a vampire monarchy, but wishing for a way to save the world without sacrificing his own life, Kain condemns his right-hand man Raziel to the Abyss, knowing Raziel will survive and return as a wraith, allowing Kain to manipulate him, the one being with true free will, into changing fate to the point of even averting his own predestined death, as well as saving Raziel from his own fate of being consumed by the Reaver. Kain proceeds to overcome a multitude of dangers with his wit and skill, constantly able to keep pace with the most powerful players in Nosgoth to the point he is able to even defeat the monstrous Eldritch Abomination, the Elder God, who has been responsible for all the bloodshed and horror Nosgoth has endured for eons, while never losing his sardonic wit or dark charm.
    • The Necromancer Mortanius of the Pillar of Death helped to lead a rebellion that overthrew the vampires before he became aware of the Hylden being held back by the Pillars of Balance. Possessed by the Hylen leader, the Unspoken, and used to murder the Guardian of Balance, Mortanius sets the events of the series in motion by having the petty noble and heir to Balance, Kain, murdered and revives him as a vampire to kill the brigands who slew him to begin with. Once this is achieve, Mortanus manipulates Kain to steadily purge the Circle, ending with Kain killing him as well, all with the intent of returning the Pillars to vampire ownership.
  • Echoes: In a fanfiction full of characters and universes, these characters have distinguished themselves through their morally dubious, but brilliant feats:
    • Sasori, eclipsing his canon counterpart, is "The Puppet Master" in more ways than one. Promoted to chunin as a child after single-handedly killing 50 enemies by poisoning their water supplies, Sasori, in adulthood, joined the Arashi clan with his student Chibaku (Puppeeter!Naruto) and his subordinate Kabuto. Sasori proved to be valuable : in Kitsune's world, he effortlessly blackmailed the Hokage into giving them Kitsune (Insane!Naruto). Through quick thinking, he forces Tsukiyomi to reveal more of his techniques even though he was losing, which proved to be useful when fighting Amaterasu (who has similar abilities) in the Wave-Verse, briefly crippling him. When most of the Arashi clan was imprisoned in a nigh-inescapable prison in the Cloud-Verse, he and Chibaku successfully broke out the entire group from the prison with their plan. He discovered most of the truth about the Dystopia-Verse by spying on an ANBU and had the perfect seal to defeat its dictator. When the Third Kazekage tries to use Sasori's body against Chibaku, Sasori self-destructed to save Chibaku. Called a Magnificent Bastard by Chibaku, Sasori has more than lived up to the name.
    • The aforementioned Tsukiyomi, AKA Kazama's world's Madara Uchiha, deserves his name of "The Deceiver". Wanting to harness Kazama's power and to destroy Konoha for "betraying" him, Tsukiyomi successfully destroyed Kazama's devotion to Konoha through Half Truths, also implanting Amatsu-Mikaboshi inside Kazama to further corrupt him. When Kazama was separated from his friends and ended up in the Ame-Verse alongside Susanoo and Tsukiyomi, the latter pulled an Enemy Mine with Kazama and trained him, resulting in both Kazama taking over Ame and finally snapping and destroying Konoha, thus fulfilling Tsukiyomi's life-long objective. Having grown to sincerely care for Kazama, he followed him in the "Road to Ninja" world and sacrificed himself to help Kazama overcome Amatsu-Mikaboshi. Willing to negociate, affable, polite and ruthless, Tsukiyomi was the most successful villain of the fanfiction.
  • Code Lyoko fanfiction The Games of Moriarty:
    • Jérémie The Eternal and Omnipotent is the result of Moriarty's mind-rape of Jérémie in the first chapter and Jérémie being kicked out of the group for releasing XANA from William's mind. Becoming obsessed with destroying Moriarty at all costs, Jérémie creates the "Holmes" program to do so. When he realizes Holmes is also damaging the entire Internet (thus causing bugs and damaging the nations' relations with each other), he reasons that he must become humanity's guide/god/master to ensure that they stop fighting each other. As such, when Holmes is on the brink of starting a nuclear war, Jérémie plans to virtualize himself in the Network, destroy Holmes, Moriarty and Odd (Moriarty's unwilling minion), and then conquer the world as he would be seen as humanity's savior, all of this while remaining under the radar. When his former teammates discover his evil plan, Jérémie uses the power he previously gave himself to easily defeat them, despite them having Moriarty's help. His failure was only caused by errors he made dues to his insanity. As smart as he was unstoppable, Jérémie's short villainous moments left a permanent mark on his teammates, the entire world and Moriarty's plans.
    • XANA, the main villain of the original series, was not only created by Franz Hopper to destroy Carthage, but also Moriarty. Long after Season 4, after barely escaping death by hiding inside William, XANA is still obsessed with destroying Moriarty. Manipulating William and Jérémie into freeing it from the former's body, XANA easily defeated the Lyoko-warriors and Moriarty, and would've killed them if it wasn't for William Fighting from the Inside. Despite being depowered and stuck inside William, it made an alliance with William, and proved to be a valuable, if evil, ally, giving him pixelized human powers to take on Moriarty on Earth, and often saving him from death through sheer power or quick thinking, such as when it noticed a high-voltage metal box that was used to kill Dark Yumi, who was about to kill a depowered William. Defeating the Dark Lyoko-warriors with William, XANA played an important role in Moriarty's defeat. Ruthless, brutal, unfettered and above all, efficient, XANA was the most competent character of the entire fanfiction.

    Sonic 
"The advantage I have is time. As an immortal, I can wait you out. I may not defeat you, but you will never know peace. Nor will your children...Or their children."

In this franchise, Sonic the Hedgehog and his companions have had to go up against many brilliant and adaptive opponents.

Unmarked spoilers below.


Eggman
  • Dr. Ivo Robotnik, better known as Dr. Eggman, frequently showcases himself as one of Sonic's most magnificent foes throughout his various appearances Depending on the Writer:
    • SegaSonic the Hedgehog: Dr. Eggman's objective in this game is to kill Sonic, Mighty and Ray. He starts out by successfully kidnapping them before imprisoning them in Eggman Island, an entire island designed to kill them. Then, he attempts to kill them in their prison with an advancing wall of spikes. When they escape, Eggman tries to kill them in the most over-the-top ways through the levels, with a giant ball of lava, falling giant stalactites, collapsing sand areas, giant rolling cylinders, boulders, trapped ladders, water and spike mines. He also traps the bridge leading towards his tower, expecting the heroes to cross it, and said trap ends up working. When the heroic trio confronts him, he successfully escapes and activate the tower's self-destruct sequence with only 20 seconds to spare. Leaving Sonic, Mighty and Ray screaming and panicking through the whole game, Eggman, despite being hammy, reminded them that his I.Q. of 300 wasn't for show.
    • Sonic Adventure: Dr. Eggman's objective in this game is to destroy Station Square in order to build his own city, Robotnikland. To do so, he freed Chaos and turned him into his ally. Since Chaos grows stronger by absorbing the Chaos Emeralds (and would eventually destroy Station Square once he has all seven), he decides to collect them. As such, he attacks Sonic and Tails to steal their Chaos Emerald. Despite his defeat, he succeeds in stealing the Emerald when they are distracted. He then revealed to them his plan, expecting them to collect the Emeralds before him, which would allow him to easily steal them. While his plan works, he also collect two emeralds by himself, obtaining 6 Emeralds. When Chaos 6 is defeated by Sonic and Knuckles, Eggman fires a missile at Station Square, only falling because of the missile malfunctioning and Tails' interference. Despite his silly, over-the-top attitude, Eggman remained constantly a step ahead of the heroes for half of the story, reminding you why he's Sonic's archnemesis.
    • Sonic Lost World: This version of Dr. Eggman starts off with complete control of the Deadly Six through the use of the Cacophonic Conch and only loses them due to Sonic's recklessness. Now stripped of his machines and resources, Eggman decides to ally with Sonic and Tails and take advantage of his past habit of uniting against a stronger force. He even goes so far to save a suspicious Tails's life to make his alliance seem completely altruistic. In the climax, Eggman seemingly sacrifices his life so Sonic can defeat the Deadly Six, but Eggman faked it by using a jetpack to break his fall. Spending the time beneath notice building a mech powered by the energy the Extractor had absorbed, Eggman claws his way back to Final Boss status in a stunning display of manipulation and patience.
    • Sonic Forces: In this work Dr. Eggman researches the Phantom Ruby in his attempt at world domination. Recruiting Infinite through promises, he implants him with a Phantom Ruby prototype and christens him as the Eggman Empire's high commander. With everything in place, Eggman lures Sonic into a savage beatdown, and with him out of the way, conquers the world in a matter of months. Eggman proceeds to display foresight and cunning in trying to keep his iron-fisted hold on the planet—ordering his forces to destroy any remaining prototypes, keeping multiple power sources unbeknownst to his enemies, and targeting critical points in the Resistance. He also factored in multiple ways to eliminate the Resistance outright, culminating in a virtual Colony Drop when they were gathered in one place. Even in the final fight, Eggman pulled out all the stops, having kept the real Phantom Ruby with the whole time and had to be stopped by the combined might of Sonic, Classic Sonic, and the Avatar.
    • Sonic the Hedgehog: The Movie: Dr. Eggman is Sonic's Arch-Nemesis. His objective is to hurl the Land of the Sky into outer space by destroying the planet's ice network, and then take over the world. To do so, he took hostage Sara and the President, forcing Sonic and Tails to try and rescue them. Then, he sent them to the Land of Darkness, claiming that if Sonic does not shut down a generator there it will destroy the planet. In truth, it was a brilliant gambit: either he wins against Sonic as Black Eggman, or Sonic wins, reaches the generator, and then Sonic's DNA can be copied to finish Hyper Metal Sonic, Eggman's latest robot. When the latter case happens, Metal defeats Sonic in their first fight and takes the lead in their second fight. When Tails tries a second time to use his device to overload Metal with Sonic's data, Eggman destroys the device. Upon Metal's defeat, Eggman reveals that he kept a CD with Sonic's data, and plan to create a better Metal, lacking the original's flaws. Beneath his nice, funny and seemingly oafish behavior, Eggman is once again a brilliant mastermind.

Other Video Game characters

  • Sonic Adventure 2: Shadow the Hedgehog was an Ultimate Lifeform that lost his best friend Maria and his creator Dr. Gerald Robotnik when they were killed by the government. Imprisoned but eventually released by Gerald’s grandson, Dr. Eggman Robotnik, Shadow enacted a plan to destroy all of humanity as revenge. Playing on Eggman’s ego and his grandfather’s legacy, Shadow manipulated the doctor into gathering Chaos Emeralds, misdirecting everyone into thinking it was for powering a Kill Sat. This diverted everyone’s attention from his real plan of performing a Colony Drop. He even manages to expose Rouge as a government agent. Shadow’s plan is only foiled because Amy Rose helps him remember Maria’s final request for Shadow to protect the people of Earth and so he decides to help stop his own scheme, almost sacrificing himself. Shadow, in his first appearance, was as devious as Sonic villains come and even as a hero is one of the franchise’s most competent characters.
  • Sonic Heroes: Metal Sonic gains enough sentience to overthrow Dr. Eggman and graduate into a much more serious threat. Flawlessly impersonating his creator, Metal Sonic issues a challenge to Team Sonic that would either end in him obtaining their data in their counterattack or conquering the world to start a "robot kingdom." Disguising himself as the real Sonic, Metal Sonic kidnaps Chocola Chao and Froggy to gain the data of Chaos and its shapeshifting abilities. He also lures Team Sonic with the Egg Albatross in Bullet Station to buy time for the Egg Fleet to deploy. Despite the involvement of four different capable teams, Metal Sonic takes everything in stride under the radar, acquiring more data than initially planned and playing them all until Dr. Eggman's real location is discovered. Although his statements as Metal Overlord bring his sanity to question, Metal Sonic remains one of Sonic's most dangerous foes. Even after being reprogrammed to be obedient, Metal Sonic showed his penchant for undercover gambiteering when he copied the data of all World Grand Prix participants for one final Extreme Gear race.
  • Sonic Storybook Series: From Sonic and the Black Knight, Merlina the Wizard flawlessly masterminded the entire plot of the game completely beneath notice. Summoning Sonic from his world to slay a corrupted King Arthur, she takes the arcane Scabbard of Excalibur to utilize its power of immortality, casting a powerful spell on the Kingdom of Camelot. Having foreseen the ruinous future of her world, a despairing Merlina places Camelot under a kind of magical stasis, fueled by the dark forces from the Underworld, in hopes of keeping it eternal. Showing absolute conviction to her cause, Merlina even fights back against Sonic and Caliburn as the Dark Queen. Although ultimately defeated, Sonic spares and convinces Merlina to abandon her nihilistic outlook, proving her to be a lost, if understandable soul who needed her hope restored after resorting to extreme measures to keep her world intact.

Archie Comics' Sonic the Hedgehog

  • Mammoth Mogul is a cultured, ancient wizard with a persistent desire to Take Over the World. It is he who founded the Order of Ixis as one of many attempts in gathering an army to serve him in his conquests. A mammoth with powerful rhetoric, Mogul is not above convincing people to his side through words alone while simultaneously planning on how to use them for his own ends. This is best displayed when Mogul led Mighty, Tails, and Mina to suicidal situations to make Sonic submit and become part of his new Fearsome Foursome. Even so, Mogul is all too willing to make the universe bow to his will, shown when he becomes the all-powerful Master Mogul and tried to take over alternate universes. After one too many defeats despite his variety of schemes, Mammoth Mogul contents himself with living the life of a businessman, patiently waiting until Sonic and his allies grow too old to oppose an immortal wizard like himself.

Sonic X:

  • Dark Oak, supreme leader of the Metarex, is a chilling combination of power and tragedy. Originally an alien lifeform named Lukas, he fell out with his lover Earthia and parts of his own species trying to save his world from destruction. His ambition and sound intentions eventually corrupted him to become Dark Oak, an Evil Overlord bent on creating a galaxy free of war and conflict by annihilating everything except plants and botanical lifeforms like himself. Introduced trouncing Super Sonic in an attempt to get all seven Chaos Emeralds, Dark Oak strays to the background and creates strategies to systematically crush his opposition that, even in failure, will give him an idea of what they are capable of. Dark Oak's cruelest but most ingenious act was forcing a sleeper agent within the ranks of Sonic and crew from the very beginning. Said person had a tracking device that relayed valuable information to the Metarex as they captured the Chaos Emeralds and the Planet Eggs for "Forestation." At the end of a hard-fought battle, Lukas dies realizing the errors of his ways and reconciles with Earthia in the afterlife.
  • Shadow the Hedgehog, the Ultimate life form, lost his best friend Maria and his creator Dr. Gerald Robotnik when they were killed by G.U.N. in the Space Colony ARK. Desiring revenge, when Gerald's grandson Dr. Eggman released him, he manipulated him into gathering all seven Chaos Emeralds and putting them in the ARK's Eclipse Cannon, which in truth would lead to a Colony Drop. Shadow's plan was only foiled when Chris convinces him to help save the world. He would have died doing so if Eggman didn't save his comatose body. Amnesiac, he returns and saves Chris from death, destroys a Metarex and retrieves an Emerald for Eggman out of gratefulness. Learning that Cosmo is a sleeper agent for the Metarex, he tries to kill her. In his attempt, he outsmarts Tails thrice by hacking into the Blue Typhoon's heat source search program, then into the ship's camera system when Tails locks the heat program and by teleporting back in the ship when Tails launched him into space. Only stopped in his attempt by Cosmo's amulet teleporting him, Shadow helps the heroes in the final battle against the Metarex. After attempting to save Cosmo from Final Mova, he sacrifices himself by moving everyone to safety as Final Mova exploded. Ruthless but caring, Shadow surpassed his game counterpart in sheer audacity and brilliance.
  • Rouge the Bat is a thief obsessed with jewels, starting a stealing spree upon appearing on Earth. Once she learns the location of a Chaos Emerald, she misdirects Sonic while she collects the emerald. However, it was a trap from G.U.N. : she improvises by accepting to become a G.U.N. agent and in return, is granted immunity and keeps her loot. When E-70 Noizi almost defeated her by using her weakness to sound, she used a bomb attached to her wrist to win. Unlike her game counterpart, she succeeds in stealing the Master Emerald during the "Shadow Saga" and joined Eggman and Shadow while hiding her loyalty to G.U.N.. When she later participates in a tournament for a Chaos Emerald, she fights Tails who's stronger than expected. She wins by kissing him and then throwing him out of the ring. When facing Knuckles, she has him agree to fight inside a dark tent, making him fight blind. During the Metarex Saga, she blackmails Bokkun into suggesting to Eggman a plan to obtain an emerald for himself, while she plans to swoop in and steal it. Skilled and manipulative, Rouge was one of the anime's most competent characters.


    Yu Gi Oh page 
"I have found that, given the proper incentive, anyone can be made to play my game."
Maximillion Pegasus, Yu-Gi-Oh!

Throughout the various entries of the Yu-Gi-Oh! franchise, several villains have shown that their strategic mind isn't restricted to card games.


Manga and Second Anime Series
  • Dark Bakura/Yami Bakura is the malevolent spirit of the Millennium Ring who seeks to gather the seven Millennium Items and use them to resurrect Zorc, his ancient alter-ego. Beyond this he has no set plan and just plays Xanatos Speed Chess as opportunities present themselves; he attacks a weakened Pegasus to take the Millennium Eye, he cuts deals with Marik to get his hands on the Millennium Rod, and infuses a piece of his soul in the shattered Millennium Puzzle so he can enter its complete form. He does all this while either (in the manga) faking a Heel–Face Turn and fooling even his own host Ryo Bakura into letting him help, or (in the anime) pretending to be his host so well almost no one realizes which Bakura they're talking to. Any defeat or setback he suffers never sticks, Yami Bakura always finds his way back from the shadows and gets his Ring about Bakura's neck to take control of him again and keep scheming. He's such a good schemer that he ends up being the final villain of the series, surviving up to the final story arc when he initiates his final game against Yugi and his friends, the Shadow RPG, and almost destroys all of them.
  • Maximillion Pegasus was one of the series' most fondly remembered Big Bads. The inventor of Duel Monsters and CEO of Industrial Illusions, Pegasus used the mind reading powers of his Millennium Eye to control the few things his billions of dollars could not. Making a deal with the Big 5 of KaibaCorp, Pegasus set up a plan to defeat Yugi as a means to gain control of the company and use its technology (and in the dub Yugi's Millennium Puzzle) to resurrect his deceased loved one. Stealing the soul of Yugi's grandfather, Pegasus lured Yugi to his Duelist Kingdom Tournament, where he pitted him against other Duelists and his handpicked team of Player Killers/Eliminators, designed in a way that would leave Pegasus the winner of the tournement no matter what. When Seto Kaiba came to the island for his brother Mokuba, Pegasus used him as a catspaw to damage Yugi's confidence before claiming the former World Champion's soul as well. Only narrowly defeated by Yugi and Dark Yugi/Yami's tag-team dueling strategy, Pegasus set a high bar for subsequent villains to aspire to, and whether as a duelist, corporate raider, or user of Shadow magic, always seemed to be holding all the cards.

GX anime

  • Sartorius is the head of the Society of Light, corrupted to evil by the Light of Destruction. Born with the power to see the future, he seeks out promising duelists with the power to defy fate and turn them to his cause so they can't stand in his way and derail his plans. He does this through a combination of lectures and brainwashing, telling his victims that only he can help them get what they want, convincing them they want to join the Society. Through these methods he takes over the top dorm of Duel Academy, makes all of its students his loyal followers, and plans to use a Kill Sat to destroy the world (mind control humanity in the English dub) in the name of cleansing, purifying light. Collected, affable, soft-spoken, and using his prediction powers to stay ahead of the game, Sartorius proves himself the most charismatic and intelligent enemy Jaden and his friends ever faced.
  • Yubel is a demonic Duel Spirit and the mastermind behind the seeming main villain of Season 3, Professor Viper. Making a deal with Viper to revive his dead son in exchange for gathering Duel Energy to regenerate her body, she disposes of Viper and transports Duel Academy to another dimension to continue her plans herself, possessing the body of student Marcel as a host. She orchestrates Jaden's horrific Trauma Conga Line in order to awaken his dormant alter-ego, the Supreme King, so Jaden can complete the Super Polymerization card and then she can take it for herself and use it to fuse the twelve dimensions into one. Due to being in love with Jaden's alter-ego in his past life, Yubel was willing do anything to rule over the multiverse with Jaden and keep him all to herself.
  • Adrian Gecko, the champion of East Academy, had a desire for power since he was a child. Infiltrating Viper’s lab after a series of manipulations, Adrian finds out about Yubel. Agreeing to spy on Jaden for her in exchange for a portion of her power, Adrian eventually finds the seal of Exodia, intending to make it his servant and betray Yubel. Upon finding out that the sacrifice of a loved one is required, Adrian convinces his childhood friend, Echo, to sacrifice herself to break the seal. Adrian later takes the opportunity to duel a weakened Yubel, declaring that he’ll become the king of the alternate dimension. During the duel, Adrian reveals that his motive is to create a utopia where nobody has to suffer. Cunning and adapting to almost any setback, Adrian proved to be willing to go through any length to rule as a benevolent king.

5Ds anime

  • Rex Godwin is the head of Sector Security and a member of the secret society of Iliaster. He rose to this position after being stranded and forgotten in the slum of Satellite, and has single-handedly turned Neo Domino City into a classist technological utopia under his control. Using his power he begins gathering the prophesied Signers and awakening their powers, then presents himself to them as a mentor and benefactor who would aid them in their war against the Dark Signers led by his brother Roman. However, Rex is playing both groups against each other to make his own play for power, allowing Roman to kill him so he can become a Dark Signer, and then using Roman's severed arm bearing his Signer Mark to make himself a Signer. Transforming himself into a Yin-Yang Bomb with the power of both groups, Godwin seeks to destroy the world and remake it in his image, and almost succeeded if not for The Power of Friendship overriding his willpower to force the Signer marks to obey him.

Video Games

  • Yu-Gi-Oh! Forbidden Memories: Priest Seto, the Egyptian version of Seto Kaiba, started out as a minion of Big Bad Heishin and subdues Prince Atem for his boss to murder both the Pharaoh and his wife. Giving the Millennium Items to Heishin's guards, Seto intends on manipulating the vengeful prince to defeat and claim them, only for Seto himself planning to defeat the prince and take them for himself. Planning on betraying Heishin to conquer Egypt for himself with the use of DarkNite, Seto gives the prince hints to stop DarkNite when it turns them both into cards, never losing his charm or ability to adapt through all the challenges he faces.
  • Yu-Gi-Oh! The Duelists of the Roses: C. Seto Rosenkreuz, leader of the Yorkists, is a brilliant tactician who aims to combine his army's White Rose Cards with the enemy Lancastrian's Red Rose Cards to summon a godly being and rule the world for eternity. When the Rose Duelist is summoned to aid the Lancastrians, Seto presents them with a compelling argument to join his forces and calmly works in the Rose Duelist's decision, regardless of whether or not they take him up on his offer. Dismantling the Lancastrian forces if the Duelist joins the Yorkists, Seto succeeds in his goals to summon a spirit but instructs the Duelist on how to return it, realizing it is not the one he seeks. If they side with the Lancastrians, Seto summons the spirit even after they best him in a duel, and escapes once it's beaten as well. Seto continues seeking the true Card Guardian, honoring his promise to send the Duelist home and remains the single most intelligent, charismatic character regardless of which campaign the player chooses.

    Assassin's Creed page 
"The King is... merely a symbol. A symbol can inspire fear, and fear can inspire control - but men inevitably lose their fear of symbols. As you can see. This was the truth de Molay died for: the Divine Right of Kings is nothing but the reflection of sunlight upon gold. When the Crown and Church are ground to dust, we who control the gold will decide the future."
François-Thomas Germain, Assassin's Creed: Unity

In Assassin's Creed's historical war between Assassins and Templars spanning a millennia these manage to standout with their brilliance, charm, and audaciousness.
  • Juno was a brilliant Isu scientist who plotted for world domination while the other members of the Capitoline Triad were tasked with finding solutions to save their world from a Solar Flare Disaster. When Juno's treachery was exposed and she was sealed inside the Grand Temple, Juno tampered with Minerva's device so that the device would free Juno as it saves the world. When Minerva decided not to use her world-saving device to keep Juno imprisoned, Juno manipulated the human genetic code with her husband's DNA, creating the Sages and form the Instruments of The First Will, having them orchestrate numerous conflicts for millennia, while she would use the Pieces of Eden to directly manipulate numerous others into her schemes. When Juno's deceit was exposed by Minerva, Juno reveals the Bad Future to Desmond Miles should he not save the world from a second solar flare, forcing Desmond to sacrifice his life to save the world freeing Juno in the process. Finding herself in The Grey, she would collaborate with a Sage to possess a research analyst before deciding to create a body of her own. Creating a body by using the Shroud of Eden from Abstergo's Phoenix Project and another Sages DNA, she would then declare her plans to "save humanity".
  • Assassin's Creed I: Both halves of the Big Bad Ensemble are equally brilliant and charismatic:
    • Robert de Sablé is the Grand Master of The Knights Templar Order, whose manipulations have controlled the Third Crusade. Leading the expedition to uncover the Apple of Eden, Robert sought to share its power with his nine co-conspirators. Aware that Al Mualim would have him killed and try to steal the Apple for himself, he defends himself from the Assassins sent by him before orchestrating a counterattack at Masyaf to retrieve the Apple. As his eight remaining co-conspirators get killed by Al Mualim's top Assassin Altaïr Ibn-La’Ahad, he comes up with calculated plan to defeat his enemies. He would lure Altaïr into a trap at Majd Addin's funeral placing his best soldiers and having one dressed as him, to distract and kill Altaïr, while he travels to Arsuf, to unite the feuding Crusaders and Saracens against the Assassins. Only losing after an enduring battle with Altaïr, Robert uses his dying breath to reveal Al Mualim's treachery before gracefully passing.
    • Al Mualim is The Mentor of the Levantine Assassin Brotherhood and a member of The Knights Templar Order. Uncovering the Apple of Eden along with the others Templars, Al Mualim, not wanting to share its powers with them, has his assassins steal the Apple from them. He would them manipulate his student Altaïr Ibn-La’Ahad into assassinating the nine targets that were formerly his allies, and deter Altaïr's suspicion of him by telling half-truths about the Templars, carefully leaving himself out. When Altaïr learns of Al Mualim treachery, he uses the Apple to brainwash the people of Masyaf to kill Altaïr before fighting his former student himself. Upon being defeated, he uses his dying breath to mock Altaïr for not destroying the Apple, proving that he too is just as mesmerized by the Apple's powers.
  • Assassin's Creed III: Haytham Kenway had the Loyalists and the Patriots in his pockets, influencing decisions throughout The American Revolution, wherever he saw fit. Haytham had plans running all over Colonial America, from stealing tribal lands to an assassination attempt on George Washington and several other leaders of the Continental Congress. The Templars under his leadership nearly wiped out the Colonial Assassins, and even after his death he established a permanent Templar presence in America for the years to come. The best part was Haytham started the Revolutionary War allying himself with the British, but they turned out to be mere pawns, he intended to remove them from the Colonies and establish America as an independent nation under the Templars. The only reason Haytham loses in the end is his love for his son Connor preventing him from killing the young Assassin. Even in defeat, Haytham holds true to his ideals, complimenting Connor one final time before he dies.
  • Assassin's Creed: Unity: The Prophet Francoise Germaine successfully orchestrated a coup within the Templar Order to become Grandmaster himself, and then manipulates the young Assassin Arno to eliminate his remaining enemies whilst playing every faction of the French Revolution against each other to make the entire nation tear itself apart. Setting himself against the local Templar Grandmaster and the Assassin Order, Germaine orchestrates their downfall and defeats to weaken both orders while setting Arno against targets loyal to his enemies. With this achieved, Germaine settles back to enjoy the chaos of the French revolution, intending on seizing control no matter which faction comes out on top.
  • Assassin's Creed: Odyssey: In Ancient Greece these two prove themselves to be bright predecessors to the most brilliant and charismatic of the Templar Order:
    • Aspasia was once the leader of the Cult of Kosmos who controlled the Peloponnesian War between Athens and Sparta through Athenian Politics and Greek mythology. Becoming the lover of Perikles, she abandoned her original plan of killing him after developing genuine feelings for the ruler of Athens and instead manipulated him into supporting her agenda. After having her leadership position removed in favor of Deimos and the Cult killing Perikles, Aspasia would use Deimos' sibling, The Eagle Bearer, to kill off all the members of the Cult before revealing her true identity to the Eagle Bearer and offering them a chance to join her goal in creating a prosperous future where humanity would finally be united by a wise and philosophical king of Aspasia's choosing.
    • Legacy of the First Blade DLC: Amorges, The Tusk of Persia, was once friends with Darius before foiling Darius plans to assassinate King Artaxerxes and join the Order of the Ancients. Becoming the order's leader, Amorges would send men to hunt down Darius and his family, while he would travel to Greece himself to establish the Order's presence greatly expanding it's influence throughout Greece, by allying with the Cult of Kosmos hijacking their role in manipulating the Peloponnesian War to where Greece would be united under an Order-controlled Sparta, all while under the guise of the stranded merchant Orontas, fooling even his former friend. Amorges would then lead an attack on the village Dyme killing Darius' remaining child and kidnapping The Eagle Bearer's infant son in hopes of raising him to become a loyal soldier to his order.

There.

Edited by 43110 on Jul 14th 2019 at 9:30:59 AM

SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#11077: Jul 14th 2019 at 6:45:07 AM

Crap, I realized that I forgot to add Diva’s write up until too late.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#11078: Jul 14th 2019 at 6:55:23 AM

Sorry, I probably forgot to put that on your pending... I've been out of it.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#11079: Jul 14th 2019 at 8:55:20 PM

Also, unapproved entry on YMMV.Gone With The Wind:

  • Magnificent Bastard:
    • From what we hear of Rhett, he manages to manipulate both sides of the Civil War to his own massive profit, speculating, blockading, and swindling his way into millions, without any significant personal consequences. Scarlett just happens to be his Achilles' heel.
    • Scarlett qualifies as well. She promises to do anything—lie, cheat, steal or kill—to protect her land and her family, and she bloody well makes good on that promise. Even while the things she does are terrible and she hurts many people including herself, you can't help but be impressed by her.

And deleted.

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#11080: Jul 15th 2019 at 12:29:49 PM

Can I please delay the Far From Home discussion? Need a little more time due to how busy I am.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#11081: Jul 15th 2019 at 12:31:38 PM

I'm fine with that even though having seen the film for myself, I have some issues there that I'll explain when the time comes to discuss the film.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#11082: Jul 15th 2019 at 12:32:45 PM

Sure man go ahead.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#11085: Jul 15th 2019 at 8:05:48 PM

Fine by me Polar. I too have issues, but will wait until you're ready.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#11086: Jul 15th 2019 at 8:41:21 PM

Also, another quick cut, from Anime.Blood C:

  • Red Shirt: The entire town besides the main cast is specifically designated as this by Fumito.

YMMV pothole on the main page, unapproved example and as for Fumito himself? While I think he does actually stray towards this I lean that his stalker-y behaviour towards Saya makes him a tad too creepy for my comfort (though genuine enough to keep him from CM) and the show's terrible writing really doesn't help his qualifications. I'm just going to remove the referencing pothole.

xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#11087: Jul 16th 2019 at 5:26:43 AM

Take your time Polar. I can’t wait for this ep despite upvoting Mysterio as a CM as I myself think he’s be a fine crossover with MB

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#11088: Jul 16th 2019 at 9:51:50 AM

Ripping a few more bad ones out:

YMMV.Zatoichi 2003:

  • Magnificent Bastard: Ichi is so ridiculously competent and badass that is hard not to think of him as such.

YMMV.Yumekui Merry:

  • Magnificent Bastard: Hercules. He's clearly scheming something much more well thought-out than just supplanting the humans.
    • He wants to create a world where Dream Demons can physically exist without vessels.

YMMV.Yona Of The Dawn:

Nothing approved, all going for now.

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#11089: Jul 16th 2019 at 10:11:25 AM

I think I'm dropping Far From Home.

My take on Mysterio is so different from almost everyone else's on these threads that I just can't think of a way to reconcile it all. My argument rests on him not being listed as a CM, yet if he is listed? What can I do?

I could maybe be convinced to do it... but for now? I'm dropping him.

May whoever picks him up do a great job, because I don't think I'm the man for it.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#11090: Jul 16th 2019 at 10:19:54 AM

Has Barty Crouch, Jr., from Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire ever been discussed?

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#11091: Jul 16th 2019 at 10:20:24 AM

Honestly? Even with that... I have a lot of hesitations to see Mysterio qualifies as an MB. From what I read in the E Ps, he seems a lot hatable. He may worth a shot in Hate Sink trope but MB. I don't know... I'll give a preemptive no for him

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#11092: Jul 16th 2019 at 10:21:02 AM

@43110: Ask G about Yona. I know he's read it.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#11093: Jul 16th 2019 at 10:21:34 AM

Barty is a Death Eater and thus a bigoted racist. Nah there.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#11094: Jul 16th 2019 at 10:21:42 AM

My problem is Mysterio is too much of a petty, childish sociopath who while funny lacks considerable charm and was overconfident with his abilities. Then trying to sadistically kill Peter and his friends and taunting Peter with an illusion of an undead Tony are simply fucked up.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#11095: Jul 16th 2019 at 10:26:09 AM

Fair point, Polar, although from what I've seen of the movie, he lacks the Fantastic Racism of his cohorts, and is more motivated by a shared hatred of his and Voldemort's respective father figures. Although, I think he may still be too sadistic for this trope.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Jul 16th 2019 at 1:43:34 PM

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#11096: Jul 16th 2019 at 10:26:17 AM

@Austin DR That's what I think. For Hate Sink? I believe he can make it.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#11097: Jul 16th 2019 at 10:28:42 AM

Beck may be one of the most personally repulsive and pettiest to ever debut on the MCU so him getting approved as an MB rather then a CM is just not gonna happen.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#11098: Jul 16th 2019 at 10:37:04 AM

Austin already said my problems with Beck. So yeah I don't think he counts as this.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#11099: Jul 16th 2019 at 10:37:30 AM

Well I never really saw Beck as a hate sink or totally repulsive tbh even through I went “this guy is a clear CM” once I finished with the movie(I actually hoped he’d be a crossover). He did have a rather cool villain monologue, was fun to watch and I did view his crimes as having a specific purpose in mind as to not get exposed. But if you’re not comfortable with doing this EP fine with you and a case could be made that he’s way too petty.

Edited by xie323 on Jul 16th 2019 at 10:39:11 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#11100: Jul 16th 2019 at 10:41:43 AM

Based on his monster EP, I really don't think he is worthy of discussion, tbh. Ravok listed his deeds in such a way that made it clear how petty he is supposed to be.

No offense to anyone who wants to discuss him.


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