During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread
for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
She's on the side of good, but very unscrupulous. Killing soldiers who are mere Unwitting Pawns for the most part, manipulating her own father into giving her his mansion so she can hide tanks in it, and being an asshole to her brother.
But then again, it seems like people are going to discuss Far from Home tomorrow, so might leave for a few days or a week and drop back in when that is done.
Edited by SatoshiBakura on Jul 11th 2019 at 11:52:24 AM
Now that I've upvoted XANA, Sasori and Tsukiyomi... Here he is.
Gone we are from the world of fanfiction, now we're getting to the French-Belgian comics, and more particularly, one of the most underrated Belgian comics. I'm talking about Blake and Mortimer.
And who's the candidate?
Well, he may be omnipresent in the series, but we will talk about his role in only one book, and not the whole series, as I think he wouldn't make it otherwise.
What's the work ?
The Secret of the Swordfish was the first story in the Blake and Mortimer comic album series by Edgar P. Jacobs. It describes how the Yellow Empire (in Tibet according to Jacobs) takes over the world and the adventures of the professor Philip Mortimer and the captain Francis Blake as they try to bring about the development of a weapon, the Swordfish, which will enable them and La Résistance to fight back. Drawing elements from the recent events of World War II as well as the emerging Cold War, the trilogy is set in an alternate reality of the 1950s, in which a Third World War is played out.
Who's the colonel Olrik ? What has he done?
The colonel Olrik is Basam-Damdu's Dragon (for more information about Basam-Damdu, see his CM EP
). He is his military advisor and the head of his secret services. He's also Blake and Mortimer's Arch-Enemy.
In the first volume, Olrik is introduced even before the heroes, inspecting Lhasa's (The Yellow Empire's capital... And an actual Tibetan city
. But then again, Jacobs always tries to show his work, so expect that in every Blake and Mortimer album) military arsenal. During this inspection, he insist on the necessity not to destroy, but rather to conquer, notably when inspecting the nuclear weapons, saying that these weapons should only be used as a last effort. He then leaves to Lhasa's aerodrome. There, he annonces to the Yellow that the Emperor, Basam-Damdu, plans to sneak attack the free world's capitals in two hours, in order to break their will and easily Take Over the World. While Hasso, a Reverse Mole, delivers this information to Blake and Mortimer, he is found out by another Yellow and Olrik immediately shoots him dead before he can say anything else.
The attack, however, also targets the Scaw-Fell base and its factory, where Mortimer develops the Swordfish. The objective is to take over the factory intact. However, Blake and Mortimer out-gambits him by blowing up the base after evacuating it aboard their "Golden Rocket". Aboard his "Aile Rouge" ("Red Wing", in French), Olrik gives chase. The "Aile Rouge" is damaged, but Olrik then tells his squadron to follow the "Golden Rocket". While they fail to shoot it down, they damage it. He also uses the code he found at Hasso's home when he killed him, allowing him to discover the Golden Rocket's objective : to join the second base of La Résistance, where they can finish the Swordfish and finally fight back. He then alerts the Yellow base closest to the "Golden Rocket"'s location : the base sent a squadron. The "Golden Rocket" is evacuated by its occupants through parachutes, but the Yellow squadron shots the parachutes of the falling soldiers, "accelerating" their fall. Had Blake, Mortimer and two Red Shirts jumped at the same time the rest of the soldiers did (they jumped off much later, meaning much farther), they would have kicked the bucket right then and here. Once they safely reached the ground (they're in the Middle East, more precisely in the Iranian-Indian frontier), they played dead... But the squadron saw right through it and shot them, killing one of the Red Shirts in the meanwhile.
Olrik, with his repaired "Aile Rouge" later scouts the surroundings, trying to make sure Blake and Mortimer are gone for good, since while the "Golden Rocket" was destroyed, they didn't found their bodies. He only stops when it's nighttime.
Later, after Blake and Mortimer's escape (mostly due to rivalries between two Iranian soldiers) from the Iranian regiment that captured them (Iran is allied with the Yellow Empire), at the price of the last Red Shirt's life, Olrik sent armored tanks after the truck they stole. If it wasn't for a group of Middle-Eastern partisans of the free world sneak-attacking the tanks, Blake and Mortimer would have kicked the bucket. This allows Blake and Mortimer to steal a tank and continue. However, Olrik investigates the place where the Iranian regiment had captured Blake and Mortimer. He finds a paper that one of the soldiers dropped when he tried to recover Blake and Mortimer's papers. A Yellow also tells him that Blake and Mortimer, after refueling their tank, blew up the station and are heading towards the North. Olrik sent a squadron after them, but wants to capture Blake and Mortimer alive. On the meanwhile, Olrik blocks all accesses to the mountain where Blake and Mortimer are heading to. However, during a storm, lighting stroke the mountain and rocks fell in Blake and Mortimer's tank, forcing them to abandon it, but also to use it to fake their deaths. Olrik inspects the tank, but due to the absence of bodies, remains suspicious and inspects the surroundings with a squadron.
Oh, and on top of that? With the paper he found in the Iranian-Indian border, Olrik deduced where they were heading to (a plane supposed to take them to the base) and promptly placed a trap. If it wasn't for Ahmed Nasir meeting and warning Blake and Mortimer about it, Blake and Mortimer would have been captured by the Yellow. This prompts them to steal Olrik's "Aile Rouge" instead, in which they succeed. Helped by Mohammed Wali and Turbat's Zahan-Kahn, Blake, Mortimer and Nasir hid themselves in Turbat
. But Olrik is also the head of... The Yellow Empire's secret services. One of his spies, Razul, successfully spies on the heroic trio, and warns the Yellow.
In the second volume, the only reason Blake, Mortimer and Nasir evaded capture again in Turbat was because an insurrection against the Yellow was started due to them killing Zahan-Kahn in their attempt to capture Blake, Nasir and Mortimer. Olrik, however, shows his prowess in improvisation and opportunism when he has the Yellow push one of their trucks out of the way (it was blocking the entrance towards Turbat to prevent Blake and Mortimer from fleeing), taking Razul with him, knowing full well that Razul has knowledge of the surroundings, before chasing after Blake and Mortimer, only stopping when it's pointed out Olrik's car won't go far in that rocky desert. He does get angry and threaten to kill the driver, but ultimately subverts the Bad Boss trope, doesn't kill him and listens to reason.
Olrik, however, catches up to them in a bridge, but Blake out-gambits him by destroying it before Olrik can cross it. However, since the other bridge to cross the river is way too far, Olrik deduces that Blake, Nasir and Mortimer are heading towards the coast, more precisely Makran
's cliffs, not far from Jask
.
Having lost the Swordfish documents when he almost fell to his death, Blake was about to go back in the Makran falls to look for them, but Mortimer chose to do so instead... Olrik successfully captures him (Mortimer hides the documents in the falls somewhere, however).
In the second half of the volume, Olrik becomes a Villain Protagonist. Summoned to Lhasa by the emperor, Olrik, on the meanwhile, buys a Yellow Empire flag from a poor man... Who is in truth a member of his secret services. On the flag, it is told that Olrik should be wary of the High Council. As he joins the emperor and the High Council, he makes a report to them, and sugar-coats it in hopes of appeasing The Caligula : The Yellow are having more and more difficulty controlling their new empire; rebellions and acts of terrorism have continued worldwide, and despite their best efforts, they have still not been able to sweat the Swordfish plans out of Mortimer. As chief of the Empire's security service, Olrik is the natural scapegoat for this state of affairs; he therefore decides to take the gloves completely off and torture Mortimer as harshly as necessary, hoping to finally elicit a confession... It's so bad Mortimer fainted. Olrik also asks to reinforce the barbed wire around the prison, which, however, allows Nasir to send a message to Mortimer while pretending to merely reinforce the wire : Mortimer seemingly pulls a Face–Heel Turn and agrees to recreate the plans. Olrik also sweet-talks him, claiming that he chose to help La Résistance in secret, likely to obtain the plans even more easily (after that, nothing suggested that he betrayed them). However, Olrik remains suspicious and has a Yellow constantly keep an eye on Mortimer. He has someone bring a lamp to Mortimer's room in order to make sure that he can work at night. That person turns out to be Nasir, unknown to Olrik. But Olrik remembers that Nasir was the one working on the wires, and is suspicious. When Mortimer tries to secretly give a paper (through a trash bin) to Nasir in order to communicate with Blake, Olrik, under the pretense of using paper to light his pipe, uses... The paper destined to Blake, and burns it to smithereens in the process, completely out-gambitting Mortimer and Nasir. On top of that, once Olrik left, Li, the soldier assigned to watch over Mortimer, forces Nasir to leave. Later, the doctor Sun Fo was sent by the Empire to watch over Olrik's activities. But Olrik is suspicious and tells Li to be wary of Sun Fo. When having to go to Haiderabad to investigate a sabotage, Olrik tells Li to make sure someone is watching when Sun Fo and Mortimer are together. However, when Razul tells him that he saw Ahmed Nasir in Karachi
(where Mortimer is imprisoned), Olrik immediately goes back. However, he's slowed down by a storm (the desert in itself doesn't help either), and by the time he finally goes back Blake's helicopter already came by to free Mortimer.
You'd think Olrik is done, right?
Nope. He isn't. Instead, he's gonna pull one of the best Xanatos Speed Chess I've ever seen.
To find out about the Swordfish, he disguises himself as a prisoner and infiltrates an imprisoned group of La Résistance, under the name of Donald Bell, the supposed brother of Archie Bell, who's a true member of La Résistance. Then, he helps the group to evade and join the secret, underwater base. Then, he steals explosives and destroy several installations in the base. When Mortimer finds out, he's about to steal radioactive products and holds him at gunpoint. Mortimer is only saved from death by the timely intervention of Blake and Nasir, the former threatening to gun down Olrik with his rifle... You'd think it's over for Olrik, right?
Nope. He threatens to crush the radioactive product, which would be devastating if it happened, forcing Blake to release him. But then he throw them the product. But while they take care of it, he gains distance. The whole base is in alert, but Olrik pulls an impressive escape : he reaches the diving suit room. There, he knocks out a member of the group supposed to be sent in the water. He pulls on a diving suit and infiltrates a group supposed to be sent outside the underwater base in diving suits. Once outside, he slowly distances himself with the rest of the group. A giant octopus almost kills him, but Blake rescues him, and Olrik surrenders. But when Blake's foot is stuck by a shell closing itself on it, Olrik takes advantage of this moment and distorts Blake's respiratory system, forcing Mortimer and the rest of the diving suit group to primarily take care of Blake, thus allowing Olrik to escape. He falls unconscious once outside but is recovered by Razul. Once he wakes up (4 hours after his loss of consciousness), he immediately orders an attack on the base. If a first attack fails, he follows with another one with the radioactive gas the Yellow Empire created, allowing them to take the lead. If it wasn't for La Résistance using 2 Swordfish prototypes, Olrik would've won.
He's next seen going back to Lhasa, where he asks the Emperor to launches the nuclear arsenal on the underwater base, now knowing it's location. But due to La Résistance slowly winning and Olrik's failures in catching Blake and Mortimer, Basam-Damdu orders his guards to strap Olrik to the first nuclear missile he's gonna launch to annihilate the world. Fortunately, a horde of Swordfish arrive in Lhasa and bombs it before Basam-Damdu launches the missiles. Olrik's face in front of imminent death? He just gives a mocking smirk to Basam-Damdu and tells him that he's going to be judged by the "infernal judge", even though he's just as likely going to die.
As it turned out in the next album, he survived somehow... But that's for another story.
Oh, and if you want to really know how he survived, read the latest album, La Vallée des Immortels, which also explains how Olrik survived the bombing, as it chronologically happens right after The Secret of the Swordfish.
Is he charming ? Brilliant ?
Olrik is both Affably Evil and Faux Affably Evil. On one part he can be polite even if he is torturing Mortimer, but in the other hand, he can apologize to him and give him whiskey.
This charming part of his personality also extends in Real Life : you ask a French-Belgian comic book fan who he prefers between Rastapopoulos and Olrik, the answer is likely going to be the latter
.
Brilliant? There's a reason he's Basam-Damdu's Dragon : he came close to kill Blake and Mortimer several times, only stopped by the most unexpected factors that, today, would looks like a Deus ex Machina (the partisans, Ahmed Nasir...). Blake and Mortimer acknowledge him begrudgingly as a Worthy Opponent.
Thinking on his feet ?
Just... The whole prison infiltration and underwater base evasion. Just that. In itself, it's more than enough to count.
What about the competition ?
On the evil side? We've got Basam-Damdu, the Big Bad... Who's an omnicidal Psychopathic Manchild Caligula Smug Snake who doesn't even cares about his own empire. Yeah... Olrik is on another level there. Comparing Olrik and Basam-Damdu is like comparing Rosemary Applefeld and Herman Preminger : you don't. One is a wickedly brilliant mastermind, another is a Hate Sink candidate.
On the good side, however, the competition is much more present : Francis Blake, Philip Mortimer and Ahmed Nasir all Out-Gambitted him. That said... He also Out-Gambitted them. Hard. He even Out-Gambitted the entire Résistance when infiltrating their base, even when he was caught. He's that good. In fact, Blake and Mortimer begrudgingly acknowledges Olrik as a Worthy Opponent.
Is he a bastard? Too much of a bastard ?
Following the orders of a CM isn't exactly going to give you any points in being a good person. Add to that being an Ungrateful Bastard and the Cold-Blooded Torture Olrik gave to Mortimer and yeah, saying he's a bad guy would be an understatement.
That said, he never takes actions that makes him personally despicable (maybe except the Ungrateful Bastard part), apologizes to Mortimer for having tortured him (and gives him whisky, something Mortimer loves), and never goes above and beyond his villainy to reaches Basam-Damdu-levels of vileness. Even when torturing Mortimer, he shows no sadism in doing so, even if he is in full Faux Affably Evil mode and would gladly stop if Mortimer talks. His loyalty is ultimately to the Emperor, and it's to get back in his good graces that he infiltrated a group of La Résistance. While this loyalty disappears when the Emperor wants him strapped to a nuclear Missile, it's more than understandable.
Verdict ?
By all means, I'm saying yes. Blake and Mortimer are as good as their Arch-Enemy is. Olrik's sheer popularity made him the mascot of the Blake and Mortimer editions. You read that right. Just look.
◊
Oh, and by the way, Olrik
◊'s physical appearance is based on Edgar P. Jacobs's
◊.
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Jul 13th 2019 at 9:56:39 PM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)Hey guys just arrived at Boston and I now have internet once more so
to everyone i missed
@ Satoshi, Going by memory, I'm still probably going to downvote: as far as I recall the soldiers she killed were firmly in Asshole Victim territory, she pulled that move on her parents to keep them out of harm's way and she isn't so abusive to Alex that it really makes her stand out to me as anywhere near cruel enough. Great Guile Heroine, I don't think quite this though.
So, here's XANA's writeup :
Code Lyoko fanfiction The Games of Moriarty
: XANA, the main villain of the original series, was not only created by Franz Hopper to destroy Carthage, but also Moriarty. Long after Season 4, after barely escaping death by hiding inside William, XANA is still obsessed with destroying Moriarty. Manipulating William and Jérémie into freeing it from the former's body, XANA easily defeated the Lyoko-warriors and Moriarty, and would've killed them if it wasn't for William Fighting from the Inside. Despite being depowered and stuck inside William, it made an alliance with William, and proved to be a valuable, if evil, ally, giving him pixelized human powers to take on Moriarty on Earth, and often saving him from death through sheer power or quick thinking, such as when it noticed a high-voltage metal box that was used to kill Dark Yumi, who was about to kill a depowered William. Ruthless, brutal, unfettered and above all, efficient, XANA was the most competent character of the entire fanfiction.
I'm going to be busy for a while so the other writeups should come during the night or tomorrow.
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Jul 12th 2019 at 7:19:51 PM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
to Olrik
Aright so I just got to my hotel and I have wifi (lucky me) believe it or not but I think I found another candidate from Assassin's Creed: Odyssey that's worth a discussion from the DLC Legacy of the First Blade.
What's The Work?
Legacy of the First Blade is a three-part episodic story arc that delves further into the origins of the Assassins. More specific The Eagle Bearer meets the Assassin of the Persian king Xerxes, Darius and Darius' child Natakas/Neema as they are being pursued by Order of the Ancients. Now then the leader of the Order of the Ancients I give you Amorges, The Tusk of Persia.
Who Is He? What Has He Done?
Amorges, The Tusk of Persia, is the DLC’s Big Bad who was once friends with Darius who helped him assassinate the Persian King Xerxes who was being controlled by the order. However Amorges would later join the Order and prevent Darius from assassinating the next king Artaxerxes forcing Darius and his family to flee Persia.
Eventually climbing up to the ranks of the Order’s leader Amorges would send Pactyas the Huntsman to chase Darius and his family while he himself would travel to Greece posing as a stranded merchant named Orontas, thus establishing the Order’s presence in the Greek world.
Amorges’s disguise works so well that he has fooled the Eagle Bearer and even his old friend Darius into thinking that he was a totally different person. This would allow Amorges to order his entire force to Greece and orchestrate an attack on the village Dyme killing Darius’ remaining child and kidnapping the Eagle Bearer’s infant son Elpidios, planning to raise Elpidios into becoming a loyal soldier for the order.
This would cause The Eagle Bearer to find Amorges and rescue their baby from him. However by that time Amorges has vastly expanded the Order’s influence in the Greek world manipulating the people of Greece, allying themselves with the Cult of Kosmos, eventually taking over the Cult’s role in controlling the Peloponnesian war and backing up Sparta with plans to end the war with Sparta as the victor and through Sparta rule the Greek World.
However the Eagle Bearer would soon come to battle Amorges and with the help of Darius defeat Amorges. Amorges would then reveal where he’s keeping Elpidios before he succumb to his wounds and dies, thus allowing the Eagle Bearer to rescues their child and send him away with Darius so that the Order won’t be able to find him.
Is He Intelligent? Is He Charismatic?
As the leader of the Order of the Ancients, Amorges is definitely intelligent. He’s able to manipulate politics and warfare eventually taking control of the Peloponnesian war by allying himself with the Cult of Kosmos. The fact that he has outsmarted Darius, a cunning assassin, many times also helps.
As for charisma Amorges just started off a grunt for the Order when he defected from Darius’ group before becoming the Order’s leader, uses his charm to sway the public into joining the Order, and would have easily won the war for Sparta if it weren’t for the interference of Darius and The Eagle Bearer.
Speaking of which He also a master of disguise whose so good at it he manages to fool his own former friend Darius into thinking that he was an entirely different person.
What’s the Competition Like?
The only one that match Amorges in terms of cunning and charisma would have to be Aspasia who I previously effort posted. However I think that Amorges is able to stand out on his own in that he’s more active in antagonizing the Eagle Bearer than Aspasia and is more active in his villainy.
It also helps that Amorges is more competent fighting than Aspasia is, despite being and old man, to the point The Eagle Bearer needed help from Darius to defeat Amorges while in all other battles The Eagle Bearer to take out their opponents on their own, including Aspasia.
Is He’s a Bastard? Is He Too Much of a Bastard?
Okay so Amorges would betray his own friend, join a malevolent organization eventually becoming its leader, send men to hunt down his former friend and his family, led an attack on Dyme killing The Eagle Bearer’s Love Interest and possibly others and kidnaps their baby with intent to raise him as a member of the Order. So yeah he’s a bastard.
However Amorges does have admirable qualities. He isn’t shown to be sadistic say like his subordinate Pactyas and his reasons for betraying Darius was because Darius was going to kill the recently appointed king of Persia, to which Amorges thought was unnecessary because the king of still very young and there could be alternate ways that doesn’t involve killing.
He also showed disgust of how chaotic and violent the war cause by the Cult of Kosmos really was to the point that he felt the need to put an end to the war himself, and genuinely believed in the order’s cause of establishing peace through unifying everything. It also helps that he never tortured the baby under his captivity compared to like Chrysis. So yeah I think he can have a pass
Final Verdict?
I’ll leave that to you guys?
Edited by G-Editor on Jul 12th 2019 at 6:40:50 AM
My sandbox of EPs and other stuffI suppose I can say yes to Amorges.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)

Warrior Cats we agreed to wait until someone else reads the relevant sections and can back you thanks to how much seems to be canon in that work.