During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread
for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
Since Scraggle's been doing Indiana Jones stuff on CM that got me looking at YMMV.Indiana Jones And The Temple Of Doom and found this:
- Magnificent Bastard: Lao Che, who through resources and wit, essentially wins in his Starter Villain subplot and seems to have a pretty jolly time doing it, too.
The dude's a Karma Houdini but he came across to me like a smug, forgettable bad guy. Cutting.
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She is far from charmless, and actually far from heartless too - it's her last scene and how she and Nadja part ways that really sells this. I'll give more details in the EP.
@43110: Vector isn't in the folder, nor is anyone from Arc-V, or Lightning from VRAINS for that matter.
Edited by ANewMan on Jun 29th 2019 at 8:01:48 AM
@A New Man Alright...I'll wait patiently for that EP. Yeah, have to admit its been years since I watched the show that I forget some tangential details about Rosemary.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."This:
- Angel Beats!: Yuri "Yurippe" Nakamura is the leader of the SSS Afterlife Battlefront, a group of dead students rebelling against God, whom Yurippe blames for the unfairness of her life. Fighting opposition from Kanade Tachibana, Yurippe fully acknowledges how inept her subordinates are and thinks up plans around this, being able to fight Kanade to a standstill while ensuring important followers and resources aren't claimed by Kanade, lead a stealth mission to hack Kanade's computer and uncover crucial information from it, and sabotage Kanade's performance on an exam so that she loses her status. Ever Crazy-Prepared, Yurippe also knows how to make good use of her lackeys through intimidating them with twisted penalties for failure, keeping them in the dark about things she knows until an ideal time, and using their own idiocy as convenient distractions in operations. When threats emerge and endanger Battlefront, Yurippe uses her quick wit, decisiveness and skill with weapons to counter them, even breaking a shadow's illusion over her with a heartfelt "World of Cardboard" Speech. As perceptive and caring as she is strong-willed and ruthless, Yurippe earns and keeps the loyalty of her troops through raw charisma and being a fair and inspirational leader in spite of her frequent cruelties towards them.
- JoJo's Bizarre Adventure:
- Battle Tendency:
- Kars is the leader of the Pillar Men, a group that seeks the Red Stone of Aja so as to become immune to the sunlight that harms them and reign as the "ultimate lifeforms." Awakening in the present day after centuries of slumber, Kars dispatches his loyal friends Wammuu and Esidisi to search for the Red Stone, and showcases his love for nature and its creatures when he murders a group of men who tried to kill a dog. Manipulating Joseph into assisting him in his quest for the stone by threatening the life of Lisa Lisa, promising to play fair only to use pragmatic tricks to win the day, Kars obtains the Red Stone of Aja, using it to become a god. Kars gives Joseph the fight of his life, as he constantly adapts to each and every thing the Hamon user throws at him, until he is finally outwitted and blasted into space only by sheer luck on Joseph's part.
- The affable Esidisi is Kars' best friend and the second-in-command of the Pillar Men. Upon confronting Joseph when looking for the Red Stone of Aja, Esidisi quickly proves to be an expert in messing with his opponent, temporarily leaving Joseph unable to get a read on him, and leading to Esidisi nearly killing Joseph with his tactics while praising him for being a Worthy Opponent. Even when Joseph destroys Esidisi’s body, Esidisi reveals his plans went deeper after all, using his surviving brain to possess Suzi Q and mail the gemstone for Kars to pick up. He then shows his conviction to the Pillar Men’s cause by being willing to sacrifice his own life in an attempt to take out the heroes by using the possessed Suzi Q as a boiling blood bomb, earning Joseph’s respect for Esidisi’s devotion to his allies.
- Diamond Is Unbreakable: Yoshikage Kira is a suave, handsome Serial Killer who wants nothing more than to have an "average" existence and live without any distress or worry in his life. Having spent his life specifically seeking third place in any competition or test he took, even planting himself in inconspicuous positions in group photos, just to remain under the radar as neither particularly gifted or flawed, Kira then used his appearance as a normal person to mask his serial killings, murdering women to then take their hands and treat them as "dates" so as to satisfy his hand fetish. Using his Stand, Killer Queen, Kira easily eliminates all evidence of his victims, murders all those who could even possibly stand in his way, and sets numerous traps for Josuke and his friends as they close in on the killer. When seemingly beaten, Kira escapes, kills a man and steals his identity, and gains Bites the Dust, a time-rewinding ability that he uses to murder everyone who could possibly stop him. Even when killed and sent to the afterlife, Kira happily accepts his new "peaceful" existence, only truly losing when the souls of his victims lash out at him and curse him to an eternity of suffering. Though spending much of his time on the run from Josuke, Kira stays one step ahead the whole time, and has such sheer willpower to survive that he unlocks entirely new Stand abilities, a feat nearly unheard of throughout the world.
- Stone Ocean: Enrico Pucci is a charming priest who was plunged into despair after racists murdered his sister due to his own mistakes, and the extremely unfortunate set of circumstances that brought about her demise drove Pucci to hate the idea of an unforeseen future and "fate." Coming to idolize DIO, Pucci collects the man's thoughts and plans for a new way of life called "Heaven," and, after handily pulling the strings of everyone in Green Dolphin Street Prison—taking time to try to genuinely help the prisoners there even as they attempt to rob him blind—Pucci uses his upgraded Stand "Made in Heaven" to begin his final plan: To force every human being to live out their whole lives, and see the entirety of the universe's lifespan, then relive their lives knowing their and everyone else's fates, this enabling them to never be surprised or broken by life's events, knowing beforehand all that will happen. Pucci is easily the most well-intentioned and genuinely caring Big Bad in the franchise, wanting to simply end the pain that comes with not knowing one's fate, and even while dying a torturous death tries to ensure his "Heaven" will carry on, even at the cost of his own life.
- Battle Tendency:
- G.I. Joe:
- G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero (Marvel): Wilder Vaughn is the leader of the Red Shadows, a covert terrorist group seeking the destruction of both G.I. Joe and Cobra itself. Becoming disgusted with the modern governments and military after witnessing a group of American soldiers massacre a village in Asia, Vaughn goes into hiding and carries out a variety of assassinations against the Joes and Cobra, culminating in seemingly killing Cobra Commander and seizing his assets. Utilizing his variety of followers who have infiltrated world governments, Vaughn gains full access to the Umbra systems that he himself developed and that are installed in many of the servers and communications systems around the world. Vaughn plans to wipe out every government, political and religious power in the world, and replace them all with the Red Shadows, who will rule with peace and prosperity in mind, not their own power, and Vaughn very nearly completes his plan, only being taken down due to his own soldiers' failings.
- G.I. Joe (IDW): The brilliant, affably charming first Cobra Commander introduced in the story is the current leader of Cobra, elected the most times in a row out of any Commander due to his efficiency and charisma. Taking time out of his schedule to personally recruit potentials to Cobra, the Commander is a generous boss, always willing to hear out and promote his subordinates for ingenuity, and yet never hesitating to silence or dispose of any Cobra members he finds distasteful or a hindrance to the organization. The Commander outsmarts the G.I. Joes at every turn, blowing up one of his most treasured bases and even abandoning the long-sought MASS device to one-up the Joes, and in his grandest outing seems to convince the former Joe Chuckles to his side, nonetheless keeping the dangerous man always under surveillance, and the Commander is only beaten when Chuckles betrays him after months of loyal servitude.
- Catch Me If You Can: Frank Abagnale Jr. is a born Con Man whose first relatively harmless scheme involved impersonating his French teacher, fooling the entire school for weeks. His later criminal actions consist of acquiring millions of dollars by writing fraudulent checks, sending out fake letters, and posing as air plane pilots, doctors, and lawyers, all to live a lavish lifestyle spent in expensive hotels, throwing parties, and sleeping with numerous women he seduces, as well as a high-class prostitute whom he tricks into paying him for the night spent with her. When the FBI's Financial Crimes unit starts pursuing him, Frank cleverly manages to avoid capture numerous times, such as performing a Bavarian Fire Drill that convinces FBI Agent Carl Hanratty that Frank is a Secret Service agent, and in his most audacious scheme, smuggling himself through an airport filled with FBI agents by recruiting a group of good-looking stewardesses to distract the men supposed to be watching out for him. Although the law ultimately catches up with him, Frank is a Lovable Rogue who is so good at what he does that he's able to elude the authorities for years and all before he was even 21.
- GI Joe Rise Of Cobra: Cobra Commander, once known as Rex Lewis, was a soldier in the US military who was left to die, and takes the opportunity to go into hiding and perfect the nanite technology. Going undercover as "the Doctor", the Commander fools James McCullen into being his pawn, using the man's resources to secretly build his own organization called Cobra that the Commander uses to overthrow McCullen. Able to instantly silence any of his captured soldiers and even quickly using his sister Ana as a hostage to enable his escape from the G.I. Joes, the Commander installs Zartan as the President of the United States and uses him to eliminate the G.I. Joes and wipe out every country's nuclear weapons, at which point the Commander unveils his powerful Kill Sat Zeus, with which he hopes to gain ultimate power over the world, and very nearly succeeds. Cobra Commander escapes at the end of the films with many of his resources intact, and showcases a tremendous amount of manipulation and scheming in his quest to bring the entire planet under a Cobra banner.
- Law Abiding Citizen: Clyde Shelton, after losing his family to the depraved Clarence Darby, schemes for years, studying law and the city to murder Darby himself, and gets arrested, conniving to pull off a series of attacks against all he holds responsible for Darby's freedom. Seeing the judicial system as inherently corrupt, Shelton holds the city in a grip of terror, making his own demands that most are powerless against, to make his statements against what he views as a corrupt system. The good guys assume Shelton saying he has all kinds of connections to hitmen who successfully kill most of his targets on his behalf is true, but in reality, he's escaping his cell and doing it all himself. Even at the end, when he realizes his life is about to end, Shelton maintains sympathy by dying in a dignified manner, only staring at a bracelet his beloved daughter made him before the end.
- It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia: Abby is a con artist who Dennis meets at a water park. Scamming Dennis into giving him money by acting as his neglected daughter in front a woman he was trying to seduce, Dennis takes an interest in her, and decides to take Abby under his wing. After being taught to steal right in front of the victim's face by Dennis, the two go on a scamming spree throughout the water park, putting all the valuables in a locker. Eventually, Abby tells Dennis that she's being forced to leave by her mother, and gives Dennis a memento as thanks for being the first adult to care about her. When Dennis confronts who Abby said was her mother, Dennis finds out that the woman isn't Abby's mother at all, and that Abby took the opportunity to swipe the locker key from Dennis and make off with all their stolen goods for herself, further impressing him.
- The Spectacular Spider-Man: Spiderman has had to take on quite a few intelligent masterminds with these standing above the crowd.
- Green Goblin, Norman Osborn, is the ultimate villain that Spider-Man faces throughout the series. The mastermind behind many of the series' villains, Goblin consistently stays one step ahead of Spidey throughout the series, faking injuries and even death, unleashing various villains and criminals onto him as distractions, and framing his own son as the Goblin all to throw the hero off his scent. Outsmarting all the biggest crime bosses in New York in a fell swoop of manipulation to kickstart a gang war, Goblin moves in and takes control of the city's criminal element before using all his resources in a grand, final attempt at wiping Spider-Man off the map to leave the city for his rule. In his public guise, Osborn builds Oscorp Industries from the ground up, making it into a world-renowned organization, hires Chameleon to masquerade as him to avoid suspicion, and slowly tries to mold his son Harry into becoming a cruel monster like himself. At times a psychopathic, Laughing Mad supervillain, and at others a cold, ruthless businessman, Green Goblin was the most personal and most diabolical villain Spider-Man ever faced, standing in stark contrast to Tombstone's professional brilliance with his own brand of psychotic ingenuity and charm.
- Dr. Otto Octavius was once the meek, milquetoast assistant to Norman Osborn, and created several supervillains with his scientific genius, but upon nearly dying in a lab accident and having his arms welded to him, becomes the genius, diabolical "Dr. Octopus." After his initial defeat by Spider-Man, Octopus grows smarter and more resourceful, creating the villainous team-up of "the Sinister Six", using them to beat Spider-Man to such a point that the hero flees for his life. A gentleman who is genuinely friendly with his fellow villains and willing to allow safe passage to innocent bystanders, Octopus takes over a chunk of New York's criminal underworld as the "Master Planner" from the luxury of a mental hospital he has manipulated himself into by pretending to be redeemed. Octopus's master plan is to take over the computer systems of every piece of technology in the world, and succeeds in doing so to Manhattan before being stopped by Spider-Man. A mastermind so brilliant that he ran rings around every other villain in the series at least once, Dr. Octopus is one of Spider-Man's greatest, most intelligent foes.
- L. Thompson Lincoln, better known as "Tombstone," is the "Big Man" of crime in New York City, running all criminal activities with a flawless, business-like approach. Introduced after sending numerous supercriminals against Spider-Man, Tombstone calmly and charismatically offers to pay Spider-Man to look the other way for some of Tombstone"s activities, and frames the hero as a criminal when he refuses the offer. Displaying numerous moments of honorable qualities, be it helping to locate a bomb at one of his parties at the cost of his own life or even saving the lives of one of his closest henchmen, Tombstone is also an excellent Villain with Good Publicity, convincing the entire city that he is an upstanding, charitable man, despite his monstrous appearance. No situation catches Tombstone off guard for long, as he attempts to be the voice of reason when the Green Goblin starts a gang war, and even publicly assists Spider-Man in dueling numerous villains to keep up his appearance, only to then betray and attempt to murder the man once out of public eye. Unlike most every villain in the series, Tombstone gets off scot-free, easily paying his way out of prison and returning to his former seat of glory, with only surface-level damages to organization.
- Avengers: Endgame (Dragonis Prime): Thanos maintains the guile of his canon counterpart in this alternate telling of the film. After wiping out half of all life in the universe, Thanos retired to the Garden in peace. When the Avengers arrive seeking revenge, Thanos destroys all but the Reality Stone to prevent them from undoing his work. After he's killed by Thor, the Thanos of an alternate timeline learns about the history of his counterpart and sets about to assemble his Infinity Gauntlet more efficiently. He helps start Ragnarok to kill Thor, and murders Eitri before he could forge a weapon that could kill him. Thanos fails to collect the Time Stone and spends the next few years balancing worlds one at a time while crushing the rebellion led by the surviving Avengers. Realizing the main timeline would have the Time Stone he needs, Thanos travels to the Avengers Compound and tries to recruit Steve Rogers to his side. When that fails, he strips Carol Danvers of her powers and has Ebony Maw destroy his home dimension to keep him focused on his new goal of wiping out half of all life across the entire multiverse.
- MagnificentBastard.Sonic The Hedgehog
Thoughts?
Edited by 43110 on Jun 30th 2019 at 9:26:21 AM
Looks Good. Remember to remove the sonic entries that are already in the video game and anime and manga sections since there going to be in there own page.
Also have a quote from spiderman the animated series. Thoughts?
The Kingpin: That's why I'm the Kingpin.
On the subject of quotes, I think this one should be removed.
Maybe it's because I didn't watch the episode, but this feels monumentally petty, and doesn't really display any magnificence.
Mmm... I think this is almost a trope where there are so many facets to touch on that we're either going to have to settle for things that just cover some of them or end up with like five in total. As for the Luthor one? I'm okay with it since he can back up his audacious attitude but I can also sympathize with wanting it gone since it (like most of them, honestly) require knowledge of the character to really get that.
Keep the Luthor quote and yes to the Kingpin one I've been meaning to suggest - it can also work for Xanatos Gambit.
Lex Luthor's speech to the Question is not really a confession of Evil Is Petty as it is him just schooling the conspiracy-nut superhero of how far off he is really to understanding Luthor. Luthor can afford wasting millions of dollars on fake campaigns, and ticking off Superman is part of his plan to send the Justice League into war with Cadmus (which would likely cripple them both and allow Luthor to become a god without anyone noticing), not simply to settle a grudge match from Superman: TAS.
I say keep it.
Keep the Luthor quote. And on that note, could any of these quotes by Cobra Commander work? Never proposed a quote before and not entirely sure what the "criteria" is, so if none of these work that's totally cool, just recommending.
Edited by Ravok on Jul 1st 2019 at 9:04:33 AM
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Here are some unapproved entries I found and deleted over at Honor Harrington. If anyone wants to look into them, be my guest.
- Honor considers Thomas Theisman to be one and Theisman seems to return the favor. Then there is Victor Cachat who proves to be a heavy weight contender for the title with his actions in Crown of Slaves, where he gets Manticoran assets and Erehwon's government cooperating in a scheme that benefits the People's Republic a little more than it does the other participants - one of whom is technically still at war with Haven.
- While above examples are just contenders, Oscar Saint-Just and Albrecht Detweiler are the ones. With emphasis on the "bastard" part, manipulating many millions of people to act to suit their respective purposes.
- Governor Barregos and Admiral Rozsak are able to build up a multi-book long plot to secede from the Solarian League, effectively as Dictator and Admiralissimo of the entire sector- and they spin the announcement of the secession so that the planets under their control elect them to lead the sector. All according to their plan...
- The leaders of the Mesan Alignment are very good at what they do - and undoubtedly a big group of SOBs who plot large wars, insurrections and multiple assassinations just to carry out their plans for galactic domination.
My KP writeup:
- Dragon Ball: Demon King Piccolo formed after the Nameless Namek who would become Kami expelled his evil was the Earth's most dangerous threat yet. His previous reign was thwarted when the martial artist Mutaito performed a Heroic Sacrifice to seal him away. Upon being released centuries later, learning from his prior defeat Piccolo had sent his children to hunt down and dispose of every martial artist in the world as a precaution. When Goku kills his children, rather than shrug their deaths off Piccolo confronts the problem directly, beating Goku so throughtly that his heart stops. Coming into conflict with Roshi, Piccolo lets Roshi hide his Dragonballs and swallows his own. Summoning Shenron to restore his youth, he kills the eternal dragon after his wish has been fulfilled. Continuing his dark reign over the Earth, King Piccolo, all but wins. Even after his death the demon king spits out an egg that carries his reincarnation to finish where he left off. As cool as he was evil, King Piccolo was fondly remembered for being one of the first truly threatening adversaries.
This unapproved edit by Lalalei claims it's accurate beyond the version she had me redo for the character:
- Yu-Gi-Oh! Forbidden Memories: Priest Seto, the Egyptian version of Seto Kaiba, started out as a minion of Big Bad Heishin and subdues Prince Atem for his boss to murder both the Pharaoh and his wife. Giving the Millennium Items to Heishin's guards, Seto intends on manipulating the vengeful prince to defeat and claim them, only for Seto himself planning to defeat the prince and take them for himself. Planning on betraying Heishin to conquer Egypt for himself with the use of DarkNite, Seto gives the prince hints to stop DarkNite when it turns them both into cards, never losing his charm or ability to adapt through all the challenges he faces.
Frankly, I've got half a mind not to run it out of irritation with people deciding it's fun to edit things without bringing them here (given they know the thread exists and what it's procedures are) but if someone can confirm this is more accurate than the previous then I guess I'm fine with it. Pretty sick of this character just not being done with and I'd like to see this laid to rest.
Edited by 43110 on Jul 3rd 2019 at 10:50:06 AM

Hmmmm Rosemary... I honestly need to think hard of her. Seen the show during childhood days and I would get a rather wrong impression that she is a heartless and charmless bitch given what she did to Nadja. But I could be wrong and I'll wait for the EP
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."