During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread
for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
Alejandro never dies but as stated before the karmic retribution he receives at the end of World Tour isn't at all dignifying (Being kicked in the groin, pushed off a volcano, trampled on, burned alive, and forced into a robot suit). Then again, All Stars goes back to reminding us that this guy is a badass that you DON'T mess with (that scene where he reveals that he can walk before using the immunity idol he took up under Heather's nose to eliminate her remains one of the most badass scenes in the season). He is by far the biggest threat Mal had in the season.
Going to bring up two new candidates in short order. First:
What is the work?
Charlie Wilson's War, a political satire about Congressman Charlie Wilson's efforts in the 1980s to organize a covert war against the Soviet Union by supplying the Mujahideen with arms to counter the Red Army.
Who is Gus Avrokatos? What has he done?
Gust "Gus" Avrokatos, a snarky, no-nonsense CIA agent played by Philip Seymour Hoffman. Gust is introduced telling off his immediate boss at the agency for costing him a job in Helsinki, then smashing his window and telling him to go fuck himself for suggesting that a man who has been shot at for the past 20 years to stop communist insurgents and threats to American security has divided loyalties because his dad was a Greek immigrant.
Gust comes into contact with Charlie (who prefers to call him "Gus") after learning that he doubled the covert ops budget on a whim, first messing with the Congressman by listening in to one of his private conversation by bugging a scotch bottle he gifted him. Gus is pretty frank with Charlie that the people running the Afghanistan operation ATM are pretty stupid and incompetent, and puts Charlie in contact with weapons experts before taking a trip with Charlie to Israel and Egypt to buy Soviet military material from them to supply the Mujahideen (obviously, if captured guerilla soldiers were found with American-made weapons, that's a recipe for World War III). Charlie, his high class friend Joanne Herring, and Gus convince the head of the Defense Appropriations subcommittee which Charlie sits on to authorize a massive increase of the covert ops budget, which will just be rubberstamped by Congress since the whole body has to vote on it blind. By the end, the Red Army is forced out of Afghanistan after losing dozens of expensive planes, helicopters, and armored personel carriers. However, Gus warns Charlie that their actions may have unintended consequences down the line...
How do his actions and personality show he is a Magnificent Bastard?
Gus is very effective at his job, fully committed to serving US interests by arming islamic militants against the Soviet Union. He does't take any bullshit from anybody, with a personality that is just magnetic to witness. While Charlie himself is equally amiable as a Deadpan Snarker Mr. Vice Guy, it's clear that Gus is his intellectual superior, even foreseeing what effect arming religious zealots will have by telling Charlie a parable of the Zen Master. "Oh, how wonderful!" "We'll see." "Oh, how awful!" "...We'll see."
Mitigating Factors?
Not that I can see.
Verdict?
Keeper.
Edited by Morgenthaler on Apr 28th 2019 at 10:46:55 AM
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"I feel like I'm watching the duality of man right now. Over on the Complete Monster forum I see Syndrome finally reaching the finish line with countless people cheering him on, and meanwhile over here we evidently spent way too much time talking about literal poop.
A very easy yes to Gus and a hearty thank you to Morgen for getting us back on track.
Next.
What is the work?
Star Trek: Enterprise, specifically the Alternate Reality Episode "In a Mirror, Darkly", which features none of the main cast. Instead, it's centered on the Mirror Universe counterparts of the Enterprise crew, and their continuing mission to seek out new worlds and conquer them for the glory of the Terran Empire!
Who is Mirror Hoshi Sato? What has she done?
The episode's plot is set against the background of the Terran Empire fighting an alien insurgency after expanding beyond the stars. The Enterprise, headed by Captain Forrest with his second-in-command Jonathan Archer, is part of the Assault Fleet with Hoshi, who used to be involved with Archer, having graduated to Forrest's bed. Archer, who has gained intelligence about some sort of superweapon discovered by the hostile Tolians, stages a mutiny against Forrest together with security chief Reed and space marine Mayweather after Forrest refuses to send their ship on what may well turn out to be a wild goose chase. Hoshi pledges her allegiance to Archer, who agrees to let her live as her language skills will prove vital to communicating with a captured Tolian alien. Archer is later overthrown when Forrest retakes the ship with the help of his second officer T'Pol. However, he agrees to go through with Archer's mission to capture the weapon, which turns out to be the TOS-era ship the Defiant which has been sent back through time. Forrest dies defending the Enterprise from the Tolians before it is destroyed, while Archer and an away team seize the Defiant.
After escaping the Tolians and dealing with a Gorn stowaway who threatens their mission, the Defiant ends up saving the Assault Fleet from complete destruction. Archer, realizing that the ship is powerful enough to take over the entire Empire, kills Admiral Black and pilots it back to Earth, only set back by an attempted insurrection by T'Pol and other aliens who were forcibly assimilated into the Empire. However, just as victory is within his grasp, Hoshi poisons Archer during nookie time, then sends in Officer Mayweather and makes out with him in front of Archer. By the end, as the ship approaches Earth, Hoshi declares herself Empress and tells the Admirality to await further instructions before she starts leveling their cities.
How do her actions and personality show she is a Magnificent Bitch?
To be clear, the Main Universe version of Hoshi is a shy Nice Girl. Her Mirror Universe self is a scheming Social Climber who prefers Sleeping Her Way To The Top. First by using Archer, then moving on to Forrest when he outlives his usefulness, then helping him to maintain power over the Defiant, then killing him and humiliating him as a cuckold. She can also hold her own in battle, even engaging T'Pol in a vicious Knife Fight. In the end, the only real person she's interested in serving is herself, essentially becoming king by her own hand. Considering what a nest of vipers the mirror universe characters are, that's impressive. She's also a cut above most of the others, with many other mirror universe counterparts being mere Smug Snakes (Worf, Kira, Forrest), sadistic bullies and brutes (Phlox, Odo, Kirk), or both of the above and insane to boot (Archer), and in the grand scheme of things her villainy just isn't flat-out revolting, especially by the standards of her own universe.
Mitigating Factors?
No.
Verdict?
All hail Empress Sato!
Edited by Morgenthaler on Apr 28th 2019 at 6:28:36 AM
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"Oh, wait, it's Sunday:
- Underworld: Lucian, the first Lycan to ever be able to retain human form and intellect, fell in love with Sonja, daughter of the vampire overlord Viktor. After her execution by her own father along with their unborn child, Lucian rallies the Lycans to victory and devastates the vampire covens. Knowing he cannot defeat the vampires himself, Lucian fakes his own death by using the vampire Kraven as a cover, going underground to rebuild the Lycans while kidnapping descendants of the first immortal Corvinus to experiment on while aiming to make himself a powerful hybrid between vampire and werewolf. Coordinating the elimination of the vampire elder Amelia, Lucian finally obtains a perfect specimen in Michael Corvin, and even when mortally wounded leaves The Heroine Selene the way to turn Michael into a hybrid, gloating even to the treacherous Kraven that his will is done regardless of his fate.
- The Wicker Man (1973): Lord Summerisle, the ruler of the island, was in charge of the island's crop production. Upon last year's harvest proving to be unfruitful, Summerisle arranges for the 12 year old Rowan Morrison to go missing until an anonymous letter is sent to the mainland's authorities. When police sergeant Neil Howie arrives to the island to investigate the disappearance, Summerisle appoints his subjects with misdirecting Howie in preparation for their island's May Day festival where Howie is sacrificed in the eponymous Wicker Man under the islanders' impression that doing so would enrich their harvest. Charismatic and respectful of Howie's Christian beliefs despite their conflicting views, Summerisle stands as one of Christopher Lee's finest performances.
- Assassin's Creed series:
- Juno is a calculating Isu scientist whose manipulations have caused every event in history. A member of the Capitoline Triad tasked with finding solutions to save their world from a Solar Flare Disaster, Juno also plotted for world domination. When Juno's treachery is exposed and she is sealed inside the Grand Temple, Juno tampered with Minerva's device so that the device that would save the world would also free Juno. When Minerva decided not to use her world-saving device to keep Juno imprisoned, she manipulated the human genetic code with her husband's DNA, creating the Sages and form the Instruments of The First Will, having them orchestrate conflicts for millennia, while she would use the Pieces of Eden to directly manipulate numerous others into her schemes. When Juno's deceit was exposed by Minerva, Juno forces her to reveal Desmond Miles the Bad Future if he didn't save the world from a second solar flare, forcing Desmond to free her at the cost of his life. Finding herself in The Grey she would collaborate with a Sage to posses a research analyst before deciding to create her own body of her own. Using the Shroud of Eden from Abstergo's Phoenix Project and another Sages DNA to create for body, she would then declare her plans to "save humanity".
- Assassin's Creed I: Both halves of the Big Bad Ensemble are equally brilliant and charismatic:
- Robert de Sablé is the Grand Master of The Knights Templar Order, whose manipulations have controlled the Third Crusade. Leading the expedition to uncover the Apple of Eden, Robert sought to share its power with his nine co-conspirators. Aware that Al Mualim would have him killed and try to steal the Apple for himself, he defends himself from the Assassins sent by him before orchestrating a counterattack at Masyaf to retrieve the Apple. As his eight remaining co-conspirators get killed by Al Mualim's top Assassin Altaïr Ibn-La’Ahad, he comes up with calculated plan to defeat his enemies. He would lure Altaïr into a trap at Majd Addin's funeral placing his best soldiers and having one dressed as him, to distract and kill Altaïr, while he travels to Arsuf, to unite the feuding Crusaders and Saracens against the Assassins. Only losing after an enduring battle with Altaïr, Robert uses his dying breath to reveal Al Mualim's treachery before gracefully passing.
- Al Mualim is The Mentor of the Levantine Assassin Brotherhood and a member of The Knights Templar Order. Uncovering the Apple of Eden along with the others Templars, Al Mualim, not wanting to share its powers with them, has his assassins steal the Apple from them. He would them manipulate his student Altaïr Ibn-La’Ahad into assassinating the nine targets that were formerly his allies, and deter Altaïr's suspicion of him by telling half-truths about the Templars, carefully leaving himself out. When Altaïr learns of Al Mualim treachery, he uses the Apple to brainwash the people of Masyaf to kill Altaïr before fighting his former student himself. Upon being defeated, he uses his dying breath to mock Altaïr for not destroying the Apple, proving that he too is just as mesmerized by the Apple's powers.
- Assassin's Creed III: Haytham Kenway had the Loyalists and the Patriots in his pockets, influencing decisions throughout The American Revolution, wherever he saw fit. Haytham had plans running all over Colonial America, from stealing tribal lands to an assassination attempt on George Washington and several other leaders of the Continental Congress. The Templars under his leadership nearly wiped out the Colonial Assassins, and even after his death he established a permanent Templar presence in America for the years to come. The best part was Haytham started the Revolutionary War allying himself with the British, but they turned out to be mere pawns, he intended to remove them from the Colonies and establish America as an independent nation under the Templars. The only reason Haytham loses in the end is his love for his son Connor preventing him from killing the young Assassin. Even in defeat, Haytham holds true to his ideals, complimenting Connor one final time before he dies.
- Assassin's Creed: Unity: The Prophet Francoise Germaine successfully orchestrated a coup within the Templar Order to become Grandmaster himself, and then manipulates the young Templar Arno to eliminate his remaining enemies whilst playing every faction of The French Revolution against each other to make the entire nation tear itself apart. Setting himself against the local Templar Grandmaster and the Assassin Order, Germaine orchestrates their downfall and defeats to weaken both orders while setting Arno against targets loyal to his enemies. With this achieved, Germaine settles back to enjoy the chaos of the French Revolution, intending on seizing control no matter which faction comes out on top.
- Kaiserreich: Legacy of the Weltkrieg
- Emperor Pedro III is the emperor of Brazil, ascending to power after the way was cleared for his ascent to the throne by the Brazilian Integralists. Upon taking power he launches a massive purge of the Syndicalists and establishes the paramilitary Imperial Green Guards to suppress the far left and enforce religious fundamentalism, while indoctrinating the population through the distribution of Integralist propaganda and the creation of youth movements to indoctrinate the youth. Despite these measures however, Pedro III stands out as one of the more benevolent National Populist dictators in the setting, using his powers to weaken the powers of local governors and oligarchs in order to give the population as much individual rights and freedoms as possible; ruling through charisma and . Emperor Pedro is also noteworthy for his anti-racist policies, as he institutes laws protecting indigenous tribes and Afro-Brazilians from racial discrimination within Brazil in order to create a new cosmopolitian culture blending both Portuguese and Afro-Brazilian traditions.
- Huey Long—also known as The Kingfish—is a populist from Louisiana who despises syndicalists while also desiring to save the American economy with his "Share the Wealth" program, which he perceives as America's only defense against Syndicalism. Popular in the American South due to his bombastic style, Long allies with far right racist groups in order to create a anti-syndicalist power block in the form of the America First Party despite his relatively tolerant views for his time, being so charismatic that his death would mean its dissolution. When the Second American Civil War starts, as either him rebelling against the democratically elected syndicalist Reed viceversa or due to Douglas MacArthur's military coup, Long serves as the face of the American Union State. If the AUS wins, Long declares himself President for Life and purges his most despicable allies, comma while allowing his Minutemen to harass Syndicalists. Despite being a dictator struggling between his own altruism and his growing authoritarianism, Long's charisma and relative benevolence made him stand out from most dictators.
- Anscarid d'Ivrea, the Free Count of France
: In this Crusader Kings 2 After-Action Report, Guy d'Ivrea shows how far intelligence, charisma and patience can take somebody. Starting as the ambitious Count of Mâcon, he works to gain power and prestige in an increasingly divided and turbulent France. Becoming House de Bourgogne's chancellor at an early age due to his silver tongue, Guy increases his demesne through private wars and establishes cadet branches for House d'Ivrea. During a long and brutal Civil War, Guy becomes a duke and gains widespread respect among the French. When King Renaud unexpectedly demands Mâcon from Guy and brands him a traitor when he refuses, Guy quickly turns the situation in his favor, defeating him in war and taking the French throne. Now King, Guy works towards France's benefit, expanding its territory and taking steps to safeguard his successors' power. By the time he passes on, Guy has set a good example for his heirs to follow and returned the Anscarid dynasty to its former glory.
Anything else?
to Gus and Hoshi
I apologize for how long it took to get these, had a block
- Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2003): Agent John Bishop is the leader and founder of the Earth Protection Force, an anti-alien task force Bishop designed after undergoing trauma and experimentation at the hands of aliens. Believing that all aliens and mutations are enemies of humanity, Bishop keeps himself alive for centuries to secure humanity's "safety", creating an entire clone army under the U.S. government's nose and even successfully staging an alien invasion to gain more funding for the EPF. Bishop is as dangerous in combat as he is in strategy, as he dances around entire groups of trained combatants including the Turtles, Karai and Hun, always using nothing but his surroundings and quick-thinking to get the upper hand and keep up. By the year 2105, Bishop has come to see the error in his hatred of all aliens, and develops a peace treaty between several alien worlds and Earth, becoming the beloved President of the new galactic federation and keeping the peace with a gentle but firm hand.
- Transformers: Animated:
- Megatron is the leader of the Decepticons and the Arch-Enemy of the Autobots. A brilliant tactician who kickstarted the entire Decepticon cause into an organized, deadly army and initiated the Great War, Megatron was reduced to but a head after the betrayal of his lieutenant Starscream, however even this doesn't stop Megatron, as he manipulates Isaac Sumdac and several other humans to reconstruct his body and return to life. Megatron is constantly updating and adapting his plans, going from trying to steal the Allspark to using its shattered fragments to create a Space Bridge with ease, and uses the mole he planted in Cybertron ages ago, Shockwave, to construct Decepticon uprisings so as to distract Cybertron and let Megatron invade. Rarely losing his cool and his plans always being foiled only by an outside source he couldn't have predicted, Megatron makes one final scheme by using rudimentary tech to take control of Omega Supreme, create clones of him, then use them to conquer Cybertron before expanding the Decepticon rule across the cosmos.
- Shockwave is Megatron's "most loyal servant", a manipulative shapeshifter who infiltrates Cybertron as the Autobot Longarm. When Bumblebee learns that there is a Decepticon spy in their midst, Shockwave first tries to murder the bot before framing the innocent Wasp as the spy, successfully protecting his identity to such a point that he murders the current head of Cybertron intelligence to get himself the promotion with no suspicions. Shockwave manipulates the Autobot leadership for years as he orchestrates Decepticons across the galaxy, and always pounces on any potential leaks of his identity, leading Blurr into a lethal trap when he tries to investigate Longarm and cutting off communications with Optimus Prime when his team learn of Shockwave's status as a mole. When realizing he is moments away from being exposed, Shockwave deals a fatal blow to Ultra Magnus, kidnaps Arcee and uses her memories to help Megatron with his plans to clone Omega Supreme, only being beaten after he lures an Autobot team into a trap and nearly murders them all by playing on their compassion.
- Swindle is a fast-talking, smooth arms dealer who plays both sides of the Autobot-Decepticon conflict to bring himself the most profit. Introducing himself by manipulating a group of human villains into building a powerful EMP weapon, Swindle betrays them all and tries to sell the weapon to Megatron, demonstrating its abilities by easily incapacitating the entire Autobot team. Though he is captured thanks to a surprise attack, Swindle bounces right back as he stages a breakout of an Autobot prison ship, taking control and planning to use the Autobot crew as hostages before harvesting their parts for extra cash. Swindle is always ready with a new gadget or weapon to get out of any situation, such as arming the Decepticon prisoners or disabling Jetfire and Jetstorm in a cinch, and he ultimately gets away scot-free, using an Autobot rescue attempt to distract his cohorts, looting the entire prison ship's belongings, and fleeing into space while remarking how much he "loves a shopping spree."
to Sato and Gus
Edited by G-Editor on Apr 27th 2019 at 11:43:32 PM
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
to Sata and Gus.
It's been a long time since I've posted anything here. But before and after Avengers Endgame I've been on a Marvel Comics binge, and I was looking through Marvel Heroes. It is a massive shame that the game had to close down. It's better than imo many of the Marvel games they've been releasing nowadays.
Marvel Heroes started out with one overarching story, with Dr. Doom being the Big Bad of the game when it first started.
What does Doom do?
Dr. Doom seeks to bargain with Dormammu (yeah, laugh it off guys) in exchange for power which turns sour. Deciding to turn to a more reliable source, Doom hacks into Stark tower and steals Tony Stark's archives on the history of foes the Avengers have faced. It's then Doom discovers the existence of the Cosmic Cube, and quickly plans a way to harness its powers for himself. He travels to the Savage Land where the Cube is hidden, and takes out the Eternals guarding it and swipes the Cube with no one the wiser.
Doom employs HYDRA to stage a breakout at the Raft, in order to keep the heroes occupied while Doom continues his plans. He secretly began gathering various magic artifacts right under the heroes' noses, and promptly destroys them once he collected them all, all to ensure that they won't be used against him. Doom also employs Mr. Sinister to gather up several powerful mutants, including Bishop who Doom intends to use as a conduit to safely absorb the Cube's powers. Though the heroes liberate the mutants, Sinister escapes with a backup clone of Bishop for Doom to use.
With the final pieces in place, Doom uses the Cube's power to summon several of the supervillains over the course of the story, offering them to be his lieutenants by empowering them with the Cube's energy. He promptly destroys both the Watcher and Dormammu when they try to intervene as a show of force, and the villains promptly join him.
But with the massive energy the Cube is emitting, Doom finally flies under the heroes' radar and they travel to Latveria to stop him. Unfortunately, Doom begins to lose control of the Cube's powers when the heroes began pushing him back. This results in him apparently being disintegrated by the Cube, with only his mask remaining.
But as it turns out, Doom was transported into space, where he's kept prisoner by Thanos who intends to claiming the Cube's powers for himself. Doom escapes Thanos's custody and returns to earth, forming an Enemy Mine with the heroes to warn them of a Skrull Secret Invasion.
Is he Magnificent?
This version of Doom is nowhere as bombastic as his many incarnations, but he's primarily based off Doom from The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes voiced by Lex Lang. He makes up for the lack of ham in exchange for a soft-spoken, calculating Cold Ham who rarely loses his cool.
His plan is to use every supervillain he knows of as an Unwitting Pawn while he gets the items and tools he needs without any of the heroes being aware of his involvement. Employing HYDRA was not just to cover break out the villains, but to make the heroes think HYDRA is the Big Bad they should focus on. Once HYDRA is taken out, Doom steals their leader The Mandarin's Ten Rings and uses them to destroy the artifacts he'd gathered. That's a Xanatos Gambit right there.
He also learned from the mistakes of past villains who used the Cube. Rather than handle the Cube's powers himself, he makes use of Bishop's clone as a conduit to safely absorb the Cube's energy. He only loses control when the heroes began to push him back.
Unfortunately, Doom ends up being an Unwitting Pawn by Loki (who I may or may not be discussing another time) who steals the Cube's energy for himself. But nonetheless, everything is according to Doom's plan, and it turned out exactly as how he'd planned it.
Is he a Bastard?
This is Doom we're talking about, so there's quite a few dastardly things he's done here and there. The first example is how he brutally murders Uatu the Watcher when he tries to interfere, or when he destroys Dormammu though that's more of a Kick The Son Of A Bitch moment. Then there's him using the Bishop clone as a conduit, even as the clone is in complete pain during the process.
He does have the redeeming traits of his comic book counterpart though, such as his love for his mother which was his Berserk Button when Dormammu brings up her deal with Mephisto. He also willingly works with the heroes to stop a greater threat, though ultimately it's to serve his own agenda and not out of the goodness of his heart.
Conclusion?
Overall, I'd say Doom can qualify.
Probably going to say yes but can you clarify about how "everything is according to Doom's plan, and it turned out exactly as how he'd planned it" when he is simultaneously an Unwitting Pawn to Loki at one point?
Sorry, though its more like Loki just waited from the sidelines before swooping in. Doom did all the heavy lifting nor was Loki's involvement brought up until The Stinger.

Holding off commentary on the Leslie Meyers comparison 'cuz that one still sketches me out but I think most of us are aware of the... biological tendency for cadavers to defecate but I think it's a fair counterpoint that it's fiction we're dealing with and if a writer decides it's pertinent to write a body soiling itself into the work, we shouldn't ignore the implications that gives for how we're to read the scene and the deceased character in question.
Anyways, Hans' death scene is a whole other ball game compared to Bertram's but I think we get that, so I'm not gonna go further on that one.