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Cleanup thread: Magnificent Bastard

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous post 
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

  • Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.

  • What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
    • Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
    • Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
    • Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
    • Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
    • Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.

  • What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.

  • Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.

  • What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
    • Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
    • Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
    • List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
    • The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.

  • How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.

  • What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.

  • What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.

  • What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.

  • Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.

  • What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.

  • Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.

  • What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.

  • Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.

Thread rules

When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.

Resolved items

In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.

However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.

This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.

Definitely an MB

Definitely not an MB

  • South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#8777: Apr 12th 2019 at 2:25:56 PM

[tup] Bill and Megatron,also [tup] Shadowman. We may have two MB/CM crossovers going up. Kuja stays.

It looks like a certain trailer revealed that a certain villain we have ultimately downvoted as a MB/CM crossover might not be so dead after all.

Honestly through? It dosen't matter. His previous actions have already established him as way too heinous after taking account of all the material he appears in or had influence in. If he appears as a non-flashback and as the final villain for this movie...it won't give him the opportunity to.

The only worry is that said movie takes him out of the equation CM for giving him a sudden redeeming quality despite him being pretty much one of the poster boys for the CM trope along with the Joker, Darkseid, Brainiac, Kefka and Red Skull. After Xehanort, losing this character to sudden redeeming quality, especially since he never had any side material that presents him as having noble motives at all will be very devastating.

I will have my entries for CM and MB in Kaiserreich up next week.

Edited by xie323 on Apr 12th 2019 at 2:34:12 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#8778: Apr 12th 2019 at 2:29:08 PM

Sure on shadowman

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#8779: Apr 12th 2019 at 4:22:44 PM

guys i am super emotional about the new SW teaser so forgive me if i am a bit confuddled but I am having such feelings I cannot adequately describe.

[tup] Swindle.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#8781: Apr 12th 2019 at 9:28:44 PM

Alright, had this one on the backer for a while. Unsure for the most part, but here it is:

What is the work?

Five Nights at Freddy's: Sister Location is the fifth game in the Five Nights At Freddys series developed by Scott Cawthon. The game, much like with any other in the main series, revolves around an abandoned establishment where this time, the establishment had been placed underground "Where Memories Sleep, Anger is Restless and Secrets Don't Keep." As with the other main games, you must survive five nights with homicidal animatronics, but as often, you do have some assistance. This time, from an unlikely source...

Who is she?

Mascot of Circus Baby's Pizza World & Circus Baby's Entertainment and Rental (formerly owned by Afton Robotics), Circus Baby is the mascot of the establishment who was initially created by William Afton with the sinister purpose of luring children and killing them. Ironically for Afton, his daughter Elizabeth goes against his wishes to secretly see Circus Baby. The animatronic immediately stuffs and kills the girl inside of its stomach cavity, leading towards Circus Baby getting possessed by the daughter. Afterward, the pizzeria was closed down due to supposed gas leaks, and was taken underground.

There, Circus Baby and the other Funtime Animatronics are mistreated by the staff where they are given electrical shocks as a means of "motivating" them into returning to their stages or being sent to the Scooping Room to get their exoskeletons painfully removed from them. This would lead to Circus Baby forming an escape plan.

What has she done?

Throughout Sister Location, Circus Baby would take on the role as the dutiful adviser for the player character ("Eggs Benedict") giving him tips on how to survive the nights. Night 2 sees her instructing the player character into hiding under the desk to avoid being sighted by smaller animatronics nicknamed Bidybabs. She also gives the player the means of avoiding Ballora while going through her gallery by crawling.

Gradually, she manipulates the player into ignoring the orders from the restaurant's HandUnit and during Night 4, Circus Baby "takes" the player and places them in a spare springlock suit from her previous location. She does this as a means of preventing the Funtime Animatronics from killing the player, instructing him to wind up the springlocks whilst ensuring that they make no slip ups.

Onto Night 5, Circus Baby's true intentions for helping the player are revealed. For that night, the player is assigned with fixing Circus Baby and she gives them a code to open her suit. If the player is made to run into the Scooping Room, the animatronics are shown to have all been dismantled. Circus Baby was the mastermind behind the operation, coercing the other animatronics into scooping themselves so that their exoskeletons could be melded together to create Ennard. Circus Baby is still in control over the Ennard animatronic and sincerely apologizes to the player for deceiving them, explaining that her previous escape attempts were unsuccessful, and that they needed a human disguise to escape. After assuring that they wouldn't suffer for long, Circus Baby activates the Scooper and disembowels the player.

For Pizzeria Simulator, Circus Baby returns alongside Springtrap/William Afton, but doesn't do as much of note there. She like her father gets lured to the fake pizzeria and are burned to the ground alongside the player and Cassette Man. However, Cassette Man implicitly does not hold Circus Baby as fully responsible for her actions and states his hopes that she would find rest when the dust settled.

Is she charming? Magnificent? Intelligent?

Given she is one of the few animatronics that spoke? Yes. In Sister Location, she comes off as Affably Evil where she gives the player helpful advice on how to avoid getting killed by the other animatronics and even when her true intentions are out there in the open, she doesn't act sadistic about it and genuinely sounds regretful for having to skin the player and promises him that it would be quick. She also sounds remorseful for unwittingly killing Elizabeth and part of the third night is her telling the player about it. As far as intelligence is concerned, Circus Baby is one of the few sapient animatronics that are able to think. She notes that after several failed escapes from the establishment, she eventually came to the conclusion that a night guard had to be sacrificed in order for her and her brethren to create a skin suit to escape.

As for Pizzeria Simulator, she has a noticeable change in her personality. Here, she is more prone to mock the player and her main initiative is to continue her father's legacy. That, and she gets tricked into entering an inescapable maze that is burned to the ground by the nameless Cassette Man. Admittedly, I wouldn't hold that against Circus Baby because it is made apparent that her animatronic mechanisms are compelling her into doing what she does because the animatronic parts had become entwined with her soul. That would also explain her sudden sadistic tendencies. That, and the game implicates Afton's influence corrupting her. Despite this, she doesn't go anywhere that would kill the "magnificence" such as mutilating the player and laughing her head off.

Competition

The other sapient animatronics to deal with are Springtrap and the Puppet. With Springtrap, it's made abundantly clear that he has no major plans and given how he contains the soul of William Afton, a sadistic Serial Killer in life, he would be disqualified under the grounds of being too evil. As for the Puppet, while it's true that the Puppet was the one to have originally given the animatronics life, it otherwise has no grand plans and its actions tend to cause more harm objectively as its plan amounts to "kill as many night guards there are until we get the right one."

Lastly there is the Cassette Man who was the mastermind behind the fake pizzeria establishment and he also created a device to lure the animatronics into the death maze. However, since he's more relatively minor, I don't feel the need to EP him.

Verdict

As always, I'll leave this for you guys. Think of this as my apology for causing the whole "Depending on the Writer" debate.

Edited by AustinDR on Apr 13th 2019 at 4:01:45 AM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#8782: Apr 12th 2019 at 9:51:46 PM

[tup] to Baby.

I don't think Cassete Mans issue is being too minor, as much as it is that he isn't really much of a Bastard.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Klavice (Elder Troper)
#8785: Apr 12th 2019 at 10:38:09 PM

Palpatine is BACK? Why am I not more surprised? I doubted someone as powerful as him could go down so easily to Anakin/Vader despite being older. I will hate cutting him from the CM trope unless you mean Tarkin. Regardless, one of them will stay.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#8786: Apr 13th 2019 at 12:45:59 AM

....there is no mentioning of him being back whatsoever. The only thing you hear is his laughter at the end of the teaser. That could literally mean everything or nothing.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#8787: Apr 13th 2019 at 1:10:58 AM

His actor confirmed his return at the panal where the trailer was being premiered.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#8788: Apr 13th 2019 at 1:18:35 AM

Still doesn't really mean anything. He could return in a flashback, as a Force Ghost, in an illusion..... It doesn't mean that he is Back from the Dead.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#8789: Apr 13th 2019 at 1:55:45 AM

[up] Theoretically, Darth Sidious couldn't return Back from the Dead since the Sith do not believe in an afterlife and are unable to come back as Force Ghosts. Even when Lucas toyed with the idea of breaking that rule in The Clone Wars, he remained committed to that idea (thanks to Dave Filoni).

However, Sidious was an Immortality Seeker and I wouldn't be surprised if he found a way to ensure his malice to persist in the physical world. We could be dealing with a Calamity Ganon scenario.

Edited by Shadao on Apr 13th 2019 at 1:56:08 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
AgeOfTropeEmpire Handsome Head of Hyperion Since: Nov, 2018
Handsome Head of Hyperion
#8792: Apr 13th 2019 at 12:41:56 PM

[tup] to Baby

Now for the final Transformers Animated candidate.

Who is Shockwave? What makes him a candidate?

Shockwave is one of Megatron's most loyal, powerful servants, a shapeshifting scientist with a knack for manipulation.

Ordered by Megatron to infiltrate the Autobots, Shockwave morphs himself into an Autobot form, dubbed Longarm, and inserts himself into Autobot boot camp, regularly reporting back information that he discovers to Megatron.

During one of his communications with Megatron, Shockwave is overheard by Bumblebee, but Bumblebee doesn't know who the spy is. Approaching Longarm (as he is one of the few Autobots in boot camp that isn't a complete dick), Bumblebee shares his suspicions that the Jerk Jock Wasp is a spy.

Shockwave/Longarm plays along with this idea, encouraging Bumblebee to keep it a secret and expose Wasp himself so he can have all the glory. During a training exercise, Shockwave hacks into the training projectiles and makes them lethal, trying to kill Bumblebee in a "freak accident," but Bumblebee is saved by fellow cadet Bulkhead.

Realizing the clock is ticking on his chance to cover it up, Shockwave/Longarm tricks Bumblebee into breaking into Wasp's locker, where Shockwave has placed "evidence" of Wasp's "treachery."

The innocent Wasp is proclaimed a spy and locked away, and Shockwave/Longarm continues to be the real spy.

Ages later, "Longarm" has become head of intelligence, having eliminated the former head to open up the position, and now uses his last access to Autobot systems and files to orchestrate Decepticon attacks throughout the cosmos.

When Megatron informs Shockwave of his plans to use the Space Bridge system to invade Cybertron, Shockwave strategizes a variety of attacks on Space Bridges across the universe, planning for the Decepticons to flood through them and assist Megatron in taking over, in the process revealing to the captured Bumblebee that Longarm is actually Shockwave, but Megatron is beaten by the Autobots and sent transwarping through space, leaving Shockwave without an objective.

At the same time that Optimus Prime and his Autobots on Earth inform Cybertron of another spy through a faulty communication, Wasp breaks out of prison, seeking vengeance on Bumblebee for locking him away. Shockwave/Longarm convinces the Autobot leadership that Wasp is "obviously" the spy that Optimus was referring to, and positions himself to take all communications from Optimus so he can filter out anything else that could incriminate Longarm, seeing as Bumblebee back on Earth knows of his true nature.

When the Autobot Blurr reveals to Longarm in secret that he has a sample of Shockwave's voice and can compare it to Autobots across Cybertron to find the mole, Longarm asks if he's told anyone else, and Blurr denies it. Shockwave/Longarm then attempts to murder him, sending him fleeing into the tunnels of Cybertron, but this turns out to have been Shockwave's plan, as he then activates electronic walls inside the tunnels to crush and kill Blurr, silencing him from telling anyone else the truth.

Unfortunately for Shockwave, the Autobot leader Ultra Magnus dispatches a covert team to travel to Earth to capture Wasp, as everyone on Cybertron still believes it's him. Shockwave realizes too late that he can't stop the covert team and that, as soon as the team gets in touch with Optimus on Earth, he'll be able to reveal to them that Longarm is the traitor.

Realizing that he's about to be exposed, Shockwave decides "screw it" and attacks Ultra Magnus, mortally wounding him and stealing his powerful war hammer.

Fleeing into the tunnels of Cybertron, Shockwave contacts Megatron and learns that his master now is seeking access codes to the powerful Omega Supreme. Shockwave, having combed through countless Autobot files over the years, remembers that the Autobot Arcee possesses the codes, and begins tracking her.

Coming into conflict with the Autobot Ratchet upon finding Arcee, Shockwave defeats him with a combination of Ultra Magnus's war hammer and his own wits, and their fight ends with the duo crashing into Ultra Magnus's hospital room, where he is being treated for his wounds. Attempting to finish Ultra Magnus off, Shockwave is caught by surprise when Ratchet uses a powerful EMP device to blast him and checks on Ultra Magnus.

In that split second however, Shockwave blasts his way out of the room and grabs Arcee, fleeing with her successfully.

Bringing her to Megatron, Shockwave begins tampering with her mind, attempting to find the access codes. Transforming into Longarm and momentarily convincing her he's an Autobot, Shockwave confirms that she actually has the codes, then plunges her into stasis and continues probing her mind.

Even with the continued annoyances of a jealous Lugnut, who often outright attacks Shockwave in rages, Shockwave finds part of the access codes and uses them to link Lugnut up to 3 Omega Supreme clones. Noting that he'll continue searching Arcee's mind until he finds the rest of the codes that will allow Megatron to control the clones directly, Shockwave notes that Megatron will have to relay orders to the clones through Lugnut.

While Megatron invades Detroit, Shockwave, realizing that an Autobot team consisting of Ratchet, Bumblebee, and Bulkhead is travelling to rescue Arcee, sets up a trap, luring the Autobots into the open to save Arcee before ambushing them, nearly killing them all before he is caught by a surprise attack by Bulkhead and disarmed.

In a last ditch effort, Shockwave transforms into Longarm and attempts to guilt the Autobots into not harming him as he reaches for his gun to blast them, but they don't fall for this trick and destroy his weapon, arresting him and locking him up for good.

Is Shockwave magnificent?

Shockwave maintains a cover as Longarm for years and years, successfully diverting attention from himself to Wasp and even murdering his superior to take his place with never any suspicion on himself. He effortlessly concocts a plan to eliminate Blurr within seconds of realizing he might blow his cover that succeeds, he tracks down and kidnaps Arcee despite Autobot interference, and he nearly kills Ratchet, Bumblebee and Bulkhead with a final trap. On top of all the strategic and scientific assistance he gives Megatron.

When his cover as Longarm grows closer and closer to being discovered, Shockwave does become noticeably more paranoid and nervous, but he still manages to maintain his cover and only finally breaks it when he realizes there is literally no way for him to manipulate his way out of it, and even still manages to mortally wound Ultra Magnus in the process.

Shockwave is fairly loyal to Megatron, but he also spends much of his run doing his own thing, orchestrating the Decepticons on every where but Earth and moving his way through the Autobot leadership, so I'm not sure if one could say he doesn't have ambition. He's most certainly not Just Following Orders, as Megatron just gives him a mission and Shockwave is the one who strategizes and manipulates to succeed.

He does have a moment that could be called something of Bond Villain Stupidity when he reveals to a trapped Bumblebee that he's actually Longarm and so Longarm was the mole the whole time, but to be fair, this was when he was moments away from revealing to everyone, Cybertron included, that he's actually a Decepticon by activating the Space Bridge network and flooding the planet with Decepticons, and only is unable to when Megatron is beaten and the plan is foiled, so even though it was a bit of an arrogant move, it also wasn't something that was completely stupid or unwarranted.

Is Shockwave a bastard?

Definitely, he framed Wasp, kills Blurr, mortally wounds Ultra Magnus, orchestrates Decepticon attacks that get several Autobots killed, probes Arcee's mind, and is fully backing Megatron's plans to destroy Detroit and invade Cybertron.

Much like Megatron himself however, Shockwave isn't performing brutal or downright vile acts, and it's done with some ego but never sadism or outrageous cruelty. He's a villain, and one of the more evil ones in the show, but not a depraved psychopath or monster.

Final Verdict?

I think I can give him a [tup]. The only thing that makes me even a little hesitant is that his ambitions don't seem to go any farther than serving Megatron, but given that he's still an extremely independent operator who wants the Decepticons to rule as much as Megatron, I don't think it is enough to disqualify him.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#8793: Apr 13th 2019 at 12:50:35 PM

[tup]Shockwave

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#8794: Apr 13th 2019 at 12:56:12 PM

[tup] to Shockwave.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#8796: Apr 13th 2019 at 1:17:31 PM

[tup] to Megatron, Swindle and Shockwave

Shockwave may be loyal to Megatron, but he has shown a remarkable independent streak that others like Lugnut do not showcase. I would not surprise if Animated was to make Shockwave closer to his Marvel character had Season 4 came out.

Speaking of Marvel, has Marvel Comics Shockwave been discussed here?

DocSharp Since: Jun, 2011
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015

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