During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
That's why I tend toward much older works so as to not worry about reservations.
Speaking of older works, my next big project will be a concise look through of Fallout 1-4 so we can get more candidates from some game besides New Vegas. My first foray into this will be Fallout in which I'll start with a doozy by effort posting the Vault Dweller, Player Character of the first game, as his memoirs included with the second game canonized who and what he did.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Well, I was hoping to wait for 30 more minutes to make it official. But I guess I'll post this since most of the US is already in September 23. Without further ado.
What is the work?
Splatoon 3 is the third installment of the Splatoon franchise. The game is Third-Person Shooter where you play as cephalopods made of ink, Inklings (Squid) and Octolings (Octopus), trying to cover as much ground as possible with your color ink in a sport called Turf War. That's the basic premise, but the world of Splatoon has a darker premise than its colorful look lets on.
The first game revealed that the franchise takes place in 12,000 years after humanity and most of the mammals went extinct in a climate disaster, allowing the cephalopods to evolve and take over the as the dominant sentient lifeforms, and there has been animosity between the Inklings and Octarians/Octolings over past grudges regarding shrinking territory and power shortage. DJ Octavio, leader of the Octarians, stole the Great Zapfish to depower the city of Inkopolis and fuel his Great Octoweapons, but was thwarted by Cap'n Cuttlefish and the New Squidbeak Splatoon (composed of Callie, Marie and Agent 3).
The second game expanded the lore with a horde of migratory Salmonids that threaten to overwhelm civilization, and a shady company called Grizzco that has been exploiting the threat of the Salmonids for Golden Eggs. The Octo Expansion DLC saw many Octolings deciding to emigrate from their oppressive Octarian homelands to live with the Inklings in Inkopolis and elsewhere, ending most of the feud.
This leads us to Splatoon 3, which takes place five years after Splatoon 2 in the Splatsville and the Splatsland, the new hub for Inklings and Octolings to play Turf War. Cuttlefish recruits you as the new Agent 3 to help him recover the missing Great Zapfish again, which he believes to be the work of DJ Octavio. But surprisingly, after defeating DJ Octavio as the first boss, the Octarian leader reveals that he is not responsible for stealing the Great Zapfish this time, and his army has been stolen too. You then end up falling into Alterna where you and the New Squidbeak Splatoon unravel the mystery of this ancient civilization and the Fuzzy Ooze that seems to be spreading from it. Halfway through the game, you discover that the real Big Bad of the campaign is none other than your boss and CEO of Grizzco, Mr. Grizz.
Who is Mr. Grizz?
Mr. Grizz is revealed to be a real grizzly bear, one of the few mammals in the Splatoon universe still alive (the other being Judd and Lil' Judd). He was once known Bear #03, the sole surviving specimen of the doomed human space shuttle, Ark Polaris. Awakened by the crash after his 12,000 year hibernation, where he gained sentience and ambition, Bear #03 was horrified to discover he was back on Earth, but now devoid of almost all mammals and instead ruled by sea life. His attempts to find other mammals eventually led him to the lost human colony Alterna, which had special liquid crystals that gave rise to the Inklings and Octolings long ago. Bear #03 discovered that he could create Fuzzy Ooze by mixing these liquid crystals with his fur. The Fuzzy Ooze, in turn, could transform any living creature into mammals. It was there that Bear #03 began plotting for the return of the mammalians.
In present day, Bear #03 renames himself as Mr. Grizz and establishes Grizzco Industries to recruit Inklings and Octolings to enter into restricted Salmonid zones and collect Golden Eggs for him. According to the official website, the Golden Eggs are "potent energy source" and would "contribute to the Inkling world's energy supply". These are all Blatant Lies as the Golden Eggs are actually used to create Fuzzy Ooze, being a very important ingredient to the formula. And by enticing these young cephalopods with promises of exclusive rewards, payment, and thrills of splatting Salmonids, Mr. Grizz has a steady supply of Golden Eggs, which often reaches to the thousands thanks to players all around the world.
After collecting enough Golden Eggs, Mr. Grizz proceeds to Phase 2 of his grand plan. He steals the Great Zapfish from Splatsville and the Octarian Army from DJ Octavio. The Great Zapfish is used as a power source for the rocket lying in center of Alterna, while the Octarians are used as test subjects for his Fuzzy Ooze and convenient mooks to protect the rocket from intruders. Mr. Grizz kidnaps Cuttlefish and locks him up at the Alterna Space Center. As the Squidbeak Splatoon makes their way to the rocket base, Mr. Grizz monologues of how he's going to rebalance the world with a rocket full of Fuzzy Ooze to coat the entire world. He also wants Cuttlefish's brain, since it contains the essence that would give Grizz "the vessel, the spirit, and the wisdom of ages" needed to complete his plans. He ends up dehydrating Cuttlefish to a mummified squid and then reveals his true nature as an oversized grizzly bear covered in Fuzzy Ooze before the Squidbeak Splatoon (Don't worry, Cuttlefish is alive,albeit permanently stuck as a squid).
Mr. Grizz launches the rocket into space with him onboard, ready to coat to planet with Fuzzy Ooze (but don't call it Hairmageddon... HR doesn't like it). New Agent 3 manages to get onto the rocket with the help of idol group Deep Cut's eels and a rocket-powered Megaladon. Using some of the Golden Eggs laying around the rocket, they manage to damage Mr. Grizz, but Grizz decides to cut the carp, absorbs all the Fuzzy Ooze on the rocket, become a kaiju-sized bear and deliver the ooze to Earth personally. Agent 3 and Smallfry get knocked off the rocket, but they are suddenly rescued by DJ Octavio, who has decided to help the Squidbeak Splatoon both to defend his home and get revenge for his stolen Octarian army. Big boss fight ensues with Calamari Inkanation 3mix song transforming Smallfry into Hugefry to distract Mr. Grizz and DJ Octavio and Agent 3 using the Octobot King to suck up all the Fuzzy Ooze and turning into a powerful laser beam of ink to defeat Mr. Grizz.
Realizing that he has lost, Mr. Grizz somberly laments that his dream of restoring the mammals will never come to pass and calmly accepts that the future will move forward without them. Of course, he declares that he will not give Agent 3 severance pay before the rocket explodes, leaving him adrift in orbit of Earth, with no apparent way back. Meanwhile, Grizzco Industries still continues as an active business, with only a new radio depicting Hugefry eating Mr. Grizz. Rumor has it that Li'l Judd has taken over Grizzco after Mr. Grizz's presumed death, but that is a story for another time.
Is he Magnificent?
Mr. Grizz is an experimental Uplifted Animal, developing sentience and advanced problem solving skills through his 12,000 years of endless dreaming while cryogenically frozen. This allows him to not only operate (and fix) complex machinery and science experiments, but also know about business lingo and business management in general.
As the CEO of Grizzco Industries, he exploits Inklings and Octolings' love of battles and fresh new gear by promising special, exclusive rewards (and money) for doing his part-time Salmon Run job shifts. Through a bear radio, he acts like your typical Corrupt Corporate Executive and Bad Boss (namely being anti-union and giving blunt orders). But a closer look to his Salmon Run (prerecorded) lines suggest that Mr. Grizz is more of a Benevolent Boss. He offers helpful advice on dealing with Salmonids (especially when it's a special event) and isn't really mad if you fail to reach the quota (unless you got no Golden Eggs). At worst, he's disappointed by the results but admits it's not as bad as it could be and simply gives you advice on how to be better next time. And if you're great profreshional employee, then Mr. Grizz will praise you and even consider a raise for your efforts. This benevolent persona, along the exclusive rewards that Murch himself could not give to you, is a manipulative tactic to keep these part-time employees continue working for Grizzco despite the shady nature and grueling task of defeating Salmonids (and to prevent them from asking sensitive questions). And he's gotten away with it for five years, with thousands upon thousands of Golden Eggs already delivered, and more on the way with Salmon Run: Next Wave in Splatoon 3. My personal Golden Egg score is 20,162 in Splatoon 2.
Bastard? Too much?
Yeah, he's a bastard. Aside from being a Corrupt Corporate Executive, his ultimate plan is to forcibly convert all marine life into mammals like him. And if the It's a Wonderful Failure is any indication, the Fuzzy Ooze might go much further than Grizz intended, given that it turns most of the Earth into a fuzzball. It's even possible that our cephalopods might have not survived the transformation process given the sounds they were making. With that said, Mr. Grizz makes it clear it's not his intention to wipe out the Inklings and Octolings off the face of the planet. Unlike Commander Tartar, the villain of the Octo Expansion DLC campaign, Mr. Grizz simply believes that dominant lifeforms would be better off as mammals, which is why he tells Cuttlefish that they'll be working together for a brighter future and why his oceanic slurs are at a minimum (whereas Tartar wants to completely wipe out sentient life to start over and never shuts up of how much it hates oceanic life).
Mr. Grizz is a true Well-Intentioned Extremist. While it's quite obvious that his reasonings are rooted in his personal trauma of being the apparent last mammal, everything he says and does is framed in business terms. He is seeking to make a better, brighter, fuzzier future for everyone and he does believe that his plan is the way to go. Even when he's finally defeated and his plans lay to ruins, Mr. Grizz doesn't undergo a Villainous Breakdown unlike Tartar. He accepts that his plans were all for nothing and that Earth's future belongs to the marine life. He embraces the new status quo in his final moments and his only act of pettiness is denying new Agent 3 any severance pay. But in the Japanese text, he apparently just congratulates you on your hard work, so it's clearly a localization joke.
Verdict
Oh yes, Mr. Grizz gets a ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
in my employee book.
Edited by Shadao on Sep 22nd 2022 at 11:57:09 AM
I just finished the story mode the other day, and absolutely to Mr. Grizz, who is basically a much more compelling and brilliant Tartar without the misanthropic hatred.
Lord of Space
to Mr. Grizz.
The wifi here sucks
Yes to Mr. Grizz.
Mr. Grizz sounds like a to me… Also, did I just read the words “rocket-powered Megalodon”?
Speaking of prehistoric creatures, I’ve decided I want to revoke Quetzal and Dark Eye from Age of Reptiles. I’ve been thinking it over, and I’d say they’re more like intelligent predatory animals rather than magnificent predatory animals. I don’t think they display enough planning, and besides, jjj2 made a good point about them biting off more than they can chew.
On the other hand, the Allosaurus is absolutely fine. The comic shows him planning clever strategies to overcome his foes. He’s also ruthless enough for the ‘bastard’ part, and it helps that he finishes off one of his mother’s killers by straight-up disembowelling him.
So yeah… It sucks that my duo have to go, but the good news is I’ve found a surprisingly strong potential from a rather unlikely source…
Lord of Space
You sure did.
Also, to say my favorite quote from Mr. Grizz: "Don't call it "Hairmaggedon". HR doesn't like it."
Goku Black
Mr. Grizz.
Die, Jarrod, Jesse and Grizz
Cut Quetzal and Dark Eye
to Mr. Grizz.
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
Laurel, I am interested in your unlikely source.
Revoke Quetzal and Dark Eye.
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates
So I wanted to address Samuel Hayden from Doom, who in the Ancient Gods DLC is revealed to be the Seraphim, Samur Maykr, and so I believe his entry should be changed to better fit this new implemented lore. So here's before:
- Dr. Samuel Hayden is the brilliant CEO of the Union Aerospace Corporation. A genius scientist and powerful Cyborg, Hayden is the discoverer of Argent Plasma, an unlimited energy source mined from Hell itself that ended Earth's dependance on fossil fuels. An ardent believer in The Needs of the Many, Hayden views the lives of individuals as meaningless on their own and is more than happy to work his employees until they die, put them in the crosshairs of demon attacks, and perform unethical experiments on them in the name of human progress. When one of his scientists, Olivia Pierce, goes rogue and makes a deal to give Earth to the demons, Hayden awakens the Doom Slayer to fight against her, but grows angry with the Slayer's destruction of the Argent Plasma refining machinery. Though the Slayer eventually succeeds in his mission, Hayden betrays him in revenge for the Slayer's sabotage of his systems, steals the Crucible from him, and teleports him to parts unknown, ending the game the unquestioned victor of this three-way battle of wills.
And here's after:
- Samur Maykr, better known as the Seraphim, aligned with the Father eons ago to defeat the Dark Lord Davoth and seal away Hell. Tasked with hiding the Father's life sphere, Samur, upon witnessing the Doom Slayer's battle prowess and willpower, assisted in helping him defeat the Dreadnought Titan by using the Divinity Machine to transform the Slayer into a legendary warrior and king, intending to use his skills and power later to revive his master. Coming to Earth years ago, Samur transfers his consciousness into an artificial human body, taking the name Samuel Hayden and becoming a powerful scientist who assisted mankind in discovering and harnessing Argent energy at the cost of many lives. Becoming the CEO of the Union Aerospace Corporation, Samur as Hayden releases the Doom Slayer when his understudy, Olivia Pierce, goes rogue and makes a pact with the Dark Lord in order to defeat her, then later assists him in locating Urdak to take down the Khan Maykr. Upon regaining his original body and being betrayed by Doom Slayer when he destroys the Father's life sphere, Samur fights the Slayer himself to prevent the Dark Lord's resurrection.
Edited by RaynForce58 on Sep 23rd 2022 at 2:00:08 AM
Goku Black
Btw for One Piece weren't we supposed to move some people. Like Send Crocodile and Kaido to the recaps where their the main villain rather than their arc of debut.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Alrighty:
- Yes to Grizz, the grizzly bear;
- Cut the dino duo;
- Sure to the Hayden expansion but he's got a few too many potholes now;
- For One Piece I'm game, can anyone play around with the sandbox and adjust the header to show me how they'd like it to look?
Ah yes, it's also the 23rd. No one counts in Cobra Kai: Terry Silver's plans fall apart and he's outed as the Smug Snake I knew he would be and his right-hand he recruits, Kim Da-Eun, is parodic in how anti-American and racist she is (She's got a scene where she confuses Johnny for Daniel); Kreese on the other-hand had a strong season in undermining Terry's plans and breaking out of jail but that doesn't undo the decades of racism that are under his belt or the fact he's almost always been played as an ultimately broken man and that aspect could easily resurface any moment.
Yes to Mr. Grizz; cut Quetzal & Dark Eye.
Edited by PurpleEyedGuma on Sep 23rd 2022 at 8:32:14 AM
Yes to Grizz.
Please remember that I proposed a video example.
Sorry bro, definite yes there and great work getting that one!
Goku Black
That video.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Grizz
Caesar
Yes to Grizz and naturally the Luthor vid! Good thinking on it, Riley!
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
The Moron
Yep to Grizz and the Luthor vid.
Alrighty, in the latest update to my endless RWBY fic binge, The Self Made Man ended yesterday. Now, the version of Jaune from that fic is already up for his appearance in Arc Royale, and as I expected, he's an easy keep in his home story as well, so how do we want to do this? He does a lot in the home fic, so do we want a second EP to cover that story or do we not care enough and thus I can just rewrite the entry? I'm cool either way.
Is it part of the same canon story? If so I'd say expand, otherwise I vouch for another EP and writeup.
The wifi here sucks
Hell yes to the Luthor vid btw
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]")
You could probably PM him if he didn't see this.
Everyone look at my sandbox