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Cleanup thread: Magnificent Bastard

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous post 
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

  • Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.

  • What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
    • Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
    • Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
    • Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
    • Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
    • Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.

  • What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.

  • Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.

  • What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
    • Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
    • Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
    • List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
    • The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.

  • How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.

  • What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.

  • What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.

  • What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.

  • Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.

  • What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.

  • Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.

  • What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.

  • Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.

Thread rules

When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.

Resolved items

In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.

However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.

This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.

Definitely an MB

Definitely not an MB

  • South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#80851: Aug 31st 2022 at 8:47:44 PM

Thanks Rav!

Forgot to mention Lawson has been in business for about 30 years. Gonna put both writeups at the bottom and then move each to the drafts once I'm satisfied the requisite number is in for each. That'll certainly get the job done.

Anyway, here's the other one now:

What is the work?

Better Call Saul is the six season prequel/sequel series of 2008's Breaking Bad which ran from 2015-2022. The show depicts the humble and downtrodden beginnings of lowly James McGill trying to find success as an attorney years before the events of the original series takes place, applying con man techniques from his shady past and eventually spiraling down morally and emotionally to become the highly successful, but sneaky and slick "Saul Goodman". Along the way, he meets many criminals who've made a successful living out of all they do in the underworld and here's one of the notable lower tier guys from that particular show right now—though probably not so low tier actually.

Who is he and what has he done?

Dr. Caldera, "the Vet", is a seemingly normal veterinarian running a clinic, but while legit, it's also a front. As it turns out, Caldera is a surprisingly knowledgable middleman for numerous criminals throughout the city providing his services so that prospective clients can achieve the services of those they wish as well. Reputable in the criminal world for that catalogue he discreetly keeps in a little black book, Caldera often has clients come to him for those services at his clinic who inquire about pet or animal matters as a means of further adding to the subterfuge.

Caldera first has dealings with Mike who he first treats for a bullet wound injury so he can get medical attention without police involvement and offers to help him get quick work for money. Mike at first turns him down then gets a shelter dog and then brings said dog to Caldera to be treated while also indeed inquiring about those opportunities he presented. Caldera suggests jobs that would pay well like a bodyguard gig, suggests taking a higher earning one like enforcer for a loan shark if he really wants something that'll pay well and while keeping in touch with Mike as he gives him jobs—charges for "after hours" and helps with a tracker—still makes it a point to ask about said dog.

Jimmy himself then brings a goldfish to obtain Caldera's services about first getting a pickpocket—Jimmy's introduction to Huell Babineaux—as well as then needing a thief to pull a job for him—which Caldera respects the wishes that his contact at first asks to not actually do said job. Around this time, Leonel and Marco Salamanca—the Twins/Cousins—acquire Caldera's services to treat a life-threatening bullet wound Nacho received during a shootout during which he does so while also providing a contact who will quietly provide the remainder of the treatment and then insists no one from the Cartel contact him again as he does not wish to be further mixed up with them. Eventually, Caldera tells both Jimmy and Kim Wexler that he wishes to retire as an intermediary and just focus on his work as a vet—where his real passion lies—and that he'll sell his book full of contacts when he does (which clearly it goes to Jimmy eventually AND of course also contains the all-so-important card for Best Quality Vacuum).

Is he magnificent?

Caldera is a go-to on just about anything be it needing money, needing work to make cash on the side, robberies, treatment for bullet wounds and needing to disappear, etc. While it seems like it'd be trivial to do something like this, Caldera being able to keep track of everything, keep it all quiet and hidden and have an answer for just about anything anyone needs to the point that they all need him as much as he needs them. Caldera even having his legit vet clinic and loving what he does too also is very reminiscent to Gus's own legit love of making Los Pollos Hermanos as great as restaurant as it is as well.

Bastard? Too much?

The man is essentially a city-wide criminal bookkeeper making money not only off of his associations with all these criminals, but enabling and aiding them all in their abilities to do what they do and remain quiet as well. Caldera is not a malevolent man in any way shape or form though and much like Ed, he simply provides a service while not wanting to really get too many details on how or why he's providing the service unless pertinent to his profit as well as making sure the rules are always followed too. Heck, even with refusing to get caught up in work with the Cartel, Caldera even still saves Nacho rather than letting him die and that's further proof he's indeed a clear man of honor even with all he has his hands in.

Verdict?

Understated and worthy of a [tup]!

  • Lawson is a veteran gun manufacturer who both legally and illegally sells guns when requested to and firmly supports the usefulness and security that they provide those who use them. At first working with Mike on allowing him access to shotguns and not charging him for anything when he changes his mind, Lawson then later sells a sniper rifle to Mike and helps to teach him how to properly use it as well—skills Mike definitely utilizes massively later on. When Walt later inquires about buying a thirty-eight snub, Lawson advises a legal purchase if it's not for anything illegal and then later sells an out of hiding Walt a new car with an M60 gun in the trunk along with instructions Lawson found online—that Walt soon uses to perfection for his elaborate revenge against Jack Welker and his gang—and after getting confirmation the gun won't cross the border or leave town, Lawson wishes Walt luck on his venture.
  • "The Vet" Dr. Caldera is a tried and true animal doctor who runs an actual clinic where he does what he really loves while being a highly-successful and go-to intermediary for any and all criminal contacts. Being a regular advisor to Mike who he treats for a bullet wound, Caldera—while passionately checking out, tending to and treating Mike's adopted shelter dog—advises him on jobs he could get on the side that would provide a requisite amount of money including as a bodyguard or muscle to a loan shark. Advising Jimmy on a goldfish as well, Caldera is then recruited by him to provide both a pickpocket and then a burglar—while showing he'll only arrange the job if the contact wants it—and breaks his rule about working with the Cartel one time in order to help Nacho with a life-saving surgery. Passing on all his well-hidden and coded criminal contacts to Jimmy in the future, Caldera makes the decision to get out of the game and focus on only being a veterinarian from that point forward.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#80852: Aug 31st 2022 at 8:55:54 PM

And a yep to the Vet, great job overall!

Amanofmanyinterests Gotta love Jaws! Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#80854: Aug 31st 2022 at 10:28:06 PM

[tup]Okada, Lawson, Caldera.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#80855: Sep 1st 2022 at 12:24:37 AM

[tup]Okada, Lawson and Caldera.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Hardcorebatmanfan Since: Mar, 2021 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#80856: Sep 1st 2022 at 3:14:23 AM

[tup] to Ocada, Lawson and Caldera (a really memorable sidecharacter).

despoa Since: Aug, 2012
#80857: Sep 1st 2022 at 3:57:54 AM

So here's an effortpost.

What is the work?

RRR (2022) is 2022's biggest action spectacle that's been hitting the West. It's an epic piece of historical fiction where two historical figures who never met before in real life, Alluri Sitarama Raju and Komaram Bheem, meet and form the strongest bromance bond you've never seen before. Komaram Bheem in this movie is an Indian village leader who's tasked to rescue a girl that a British general enslaved from his village, and Alluri Sitarama Raju is an ambitious police officer who wishes to climb the ranks of the British Raj police forces. After a chance encounter where they work together to rescue some people using their Charles Atlas Superpowers, they become the bestest friends that are the bestest best ever best. Unfortunately, what the two don't know is that the two are supposed to be opposed to each other, police officer and rebel.

Bheem could count as one, but I'm not doing him as I find him too heroic and straightforward. What I'm doing is Raju.

Who is Alluri Sitarama Raju?

As before, Alluri Sitarama Raju is an ambitious police officer that's been trying to climb the ranks. How he got to that point is another story.

Raju as a young boy was trained by his father a part of a secret rebellion against the British. His father however would not give him a gun until he has proven that he can wield it, and also due to their scarcity of ammo. Raju does by secretly going out at night with a rifle and shooting a bullseye nearly 100 meters away with his first ever shot. Impressed, his father gives him a gun and trains him to shoot with it. These skills come into play when the British invade Raju's village to put down the rebellion. Outnumbered and outgunned, Raju's father decides to do a suicide bombing against the British and coerces Raju to shoot the bombs attached to him to set them off.

Impacted by his father's heroic suicide, in his late teens/early 20s (?), Raju decides to leave his village but makes a promise that he will come back one day with enough guns and ammunition to arm all of the villagers and take down the British. For the next 15 years, Raju works his way up British Raj society and infiltrates himself into the British Raj police forces, hoping to get into a high enough position that he will be able to do weapons inventory and secretly ship caches of weapons and ammo back to his village. As he's an Indian in a mostly white police force, he has to work extra hard to stand out and get the promotion he needs. Case in point is his task to arrest an Indian revolutionary in a really large mob of protesters. He does so alone, outnumbered one to hundreds, and successfully, and he still doesn't get the promotion.

This is where Bheem enters the picture. Bheem is a highly wanted man in the city, but nobody there aside from the secret rebels knows his true name, and descriptions of him are vague. By getting this guy, Raju might finally get the promotion he needs to arm his people. That's the tragedy of their friendship; they are two people who are actually supposed to be opposed to each other, even if they have similar goals to help their fellow people, but nobody but a select few can know Raju is a mole, not even Bheem, as he risks blowing his cover.

During one night where Bheem put into action his fire and animal fueled plan to rescue the village girl, Raju steps into action and arrests Bheem after an hard and intense battle. This is the achievement that finally gets Raju that promotion he needs. Raju is then tasked with the public flogging of Bheem in an attempt to have him verbally take back his action, which only gets Bheem sing in defiance to a crowd of onlookers. This incites yet another riot from these outlookers and puts an even bigger burden of guilt on Raju. To make up for this, Raju decides to give Bheem an opportunity to escape with the village girl under the pretense of an execution, which will be personally witnessed by state administrator Scott Buxton. He sets up an ambush on the road to the execution site, but Scott quickly deduces what Raju is really doing and derails the plan. Bheem and the village girl manage to escape, and Raju tries to join them but Bheem, under the impression that Raju is trying to kill him, fights him off.

For the next couple months, Raju is in a maximum security military barracks, fed only once a week and regularly beaten by the guards. Bheem eventually learns the truth Raju's real plans from Raju's fiance, who came to the city to get closer to Raju. Bheem, overcome with guilt and sadness, decides to break into the military barracks to rescue Raju. I could put details on how he did it, but that's for a possible effortpost from someone else.

Raju and Bheem then escape the prison and Bheem subsequently heals Raju's wounds, putting Raju back into tip-top physical condition. Together, the two fight off every British soldier sent to fight them with a combination of traps, guile, and sheer superhuman skill. They soon take the fight to Scott Buxton, where they kill him and his wife for enslaving the village girl and any other crimes they committed against the Indian populace. They then steal a large cache of weapons and have it personally shipped to Raju's village, readying them for an even bigger revolution.

Is he Magnificent?

Raju plays the role of The Mole almost flawlessly. Nobody suspects that he even is one for 15 years as he performs every task the state gives him with results beyond what an ordinary human can do. It's only due to a surprisingly quick deduction and course of action from Scott Buxton that his plan to have Bheem and the village girl was derailed, and even then it still succeeds but at the cost of his arrest. Even during his imprisonment, he is just as defiant as Bheem and resists everything the British can throw at him. And as for his fighting and action skills, this guy comes up with plans that seamlessly synergizes with Bheem's when they work together. The two are unstoppable together.

Is he a Bastard?

In his quest to arm his village, he had to do some pretty bad things in order to get his promotion. The British Imperial Police Forces weren't exactly kind to the Indian populace, so he had to engage in some Police Brutality himself, even if he feels guilty inside. This is best shown in his scene where he arrests a rebel in the middle of a large mob, where he has to beat them off as they dogpile him and literally drags the rebel back to the police station. And then there's his arrest of Bheem, where it's very clear that the two are heartbroken by this betrayal, but Raju can't hold back and has him submit with the news of Scott's threat to kill the village girl. As for Raju's final battle with Bheem against the British forces and Scott Buxton, it's clearly a case of Pay Evil unto Evil in their revenge murder of Scott Buxton and his wife.

Conclusion

Yes, he is one.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#80858: Sep 1st 2022 at 4:00:14 AM

[tup]Raju

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#80859: Sep 1st 2022 at 4:38:00 AM

Yes to Raju.

Oh, yes to the Vet too... sorry future and thanks for the writeups!

Edited by 43110 on Sep 1st 2022 at 7:39:01 AM

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#80860: Sep 1st 2022 at 4:52:00 AM

[tup] Raju and The Vet

So I have one more Fire Emblem candidate, someone I wasn't sure I was gonna EP since this guy is an ally and never really directly confronts you so I was wondering if he was bastard enough, but considering some of the characters we got and their level of bastardly really pales to what this guy does, I feel he's worth taking a look. We'll be checking out Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance and check on our favorite "Fireman", I present Volke.

What is the setting?

Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance is the 1st game in the Tellius duology release in the Gamecube. Taking place in a whole new land, the story revolves around the mercernary Ike and his squad the Greil Mercernary as they assist in the mission of liberating the kingdom of Crimea from the Empire of Daein under the employment of Princess Elincia.

During this ardorous journey, the mercernary team end up recruiting a number of soldiers from all over the world and one of them happens to be a mysterious thief who offers their services to them after the death of Ike's father Greil. Unsurprisingly, this man turns out to be more then he seems and we'll be taking a look at him as our next candidate, the "Fireman" Volke.

Who is Volke and what does he do?

First showing up when liberating a Daein prison to free a number of prisoners of wars, Volke curtously shows up to offer his services to Ike as a simple thief who can help him pick locks needed to open the cells for the mission. While you can reject the offer, it's highly recommended considering how importants his talents are for the mission, so as such Ike ends up accepting it, and Volke ends up traveling the group as the teams main thief in exchange for money for every lock he picks. However unlike other units you can recruit, Volke remains a complete enigma aside from his disdain of social gatherings, and it's only until Ike manage to gather a huge amount of gold before he learns the truth of Volke.

Paying a hefty 50,000 gold to the thief, Volke reveals that he's not actually a thief but an assassin hired by Greil to kill him if he ever goes berserk because of how legendary Volke's skill are in the art of murder, telling the tale of Ike that Greil's medallion, the Lehran's Medallion Mist inherit, actually contains great power inside to whoever touches it. However while the power does turn someone incredibly powerful in combat, it also causes them to mad with the power and lose control, desolating anyone and everyone who stood their way and many years ago, this is what happened to Greil which not only killed countless soldiers but also the mother of Ike and Mist. Fearing his power, Greil contacted Volke to kill him if it would occur again, and because Volke told him he can't with how powerful he is normally, Greil decided to cripple himself intentionally so when Volke has to do it, he can, which is why Greil never uses a sword despite it being his speciality, rather an axe with help contribute to his death early in the game.

As the professional he is, Volke decides to stick with Ike because of him paying his services and making the same agreement to Ike he had with Greil by promising to Mercy Kill Ike if he does end up going mad as well. As an assassin, Volke shows exactly why he is consider a legend becoming easily one of the group's most powerful fighters thanks to hsi evasiveness and his unique skill, Lethality, which has a chance to instant kill any opponent. We also learn more about Volke when recruiting Bastian who reveals Volke is one of his most trusted weapons during the never-ending strife between nobles, as his regular assassin. Once Ike and his army manage to liberate Crimea from Daein, Volke ends up disappearing since his job is done, not seen until the sequel.

In Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn Volke doesn't play as important of a role as he did in the previous game but we do learn more about this assassin. We learn that in the end of his support conversation with Bastian in the previous game, Volke was hired by the Crimea nobel to hunt and capture Izuka who has been terrorizing around the land with his experiments creating the Feral Laguz. When entering Izuka's labatory, the Crimea army encounters Volke who sits there waiting until he gets payed before he joins the group to end Izuka once and for all where he reveals if you have him fight Izuka, he'll reveal he used to work Izuka which also terrifies him knowing how capable his skills are. We also saw glimpses of Volke having standards since Bastian finds it odd that Volke requested a much cheaper offer to kill Izuka, showing even he finds the man disgusting.

And for the rest of the game, Volke remains mostly in the background as an extremely useful assassin who's worth using late in the game, although he does return some of the money to Ike as part of their professional contract. Also Volke still demands payment for his services in the army despite it deciding the fate of the world so kinda tells you Volke is really in it for the money still. Once it's all said and done and Ashera is defeated, Volke quietly returns to his regular life as an assassin in the shadows.

Is he Magnificent?

Absolutely, an utter professional of an assassin, Volke is a man who can get the job then in the most efficient way possible while putting away any personal feelings to be as cordial yet distant towards client making him a very reliable professional killer. Hell, he was so respected Greil personally selected him to be his assassin if he ends up berserk showing how good Volke is.

And while don't know much about Volke and his personal ambitions, we do know Volke only cares about two things. His reputation and money and Volke earns them in space, taking advantage of Ike's situation to make so much money out of him while maintaining his deal with Greil to show his reliability and trust to get a job done. And once it's all said and done, he earns quite a hefty pay check for his troubles as he continues his legendary career as an assassin.

Also small thing, Volke is also one of the few non-essentially units who will never die if he loses all his health, at that point Volke will just cut and run, abandoning the job realizing it became too much for him to handle. Say what you will but even in the worse case scenario guy is able to come out of it good.

Too Much of a Bastard?

Now while make no mistake Volke doesn't do anything directly against the party, Volke is still a very much an opportunistic killer at heart. While professional, Volke will still take jobs from even the worse people if paid enough like Izuka despite his dislike, and even kill genuinely heroic people like Greil and Ike if the need occurs, granted it is a Mercy Kill but in the conversation with Ike, Volke admitted the only reason he didn't take Greil's offer was not for how good of a person he was, but rather he didn't think he had a good chance beating him and he does't take jobs he doesn't think he can accomplish.

Add in he does exploit gold with the main group, and really only does what he is doing for the money, and it's clear Volke mainly looks at his own self-interest. That said Volke is never malicious, at best he'll be a bit snarky, and he does seem to show genuine gratitude to Ike in Radiant Dawn, and he still has some standards considering he personally was willing to make a discount to kill the mad scientist.

Overall Volke is still a very dangerous hitman, but one in your side so you ain't in the other end of his work.

Final Verdict:

My last Fire Emblem candidate for a while and hey glad it's one of my faves in the series.

Edited by TheImmortalAngelNewton on Sep 1st 2022 at 8:48:29 PM

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#80861: Sep 1st 2022 at 6:07:03 AM

[tup] to the Vet, Raju, and Volke

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#80862: Sep 1st 2022 at 6:25:23 AM

Yes to Volke. I know we talked about Tallahassee once from Zombieland but rewatching the first here I think I've got another.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#80863: Sep 1st 2022 at 7:09:17 AM

[up]I think I know who you mean… Haha.

Was the concern about Tallahassee that he was too racially ignorant to count? If he's not though and it really is not something to judge him harshly by if at all, then great!

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Sep 1st 2022 at 7:17:44 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#80864: Sep 1st 2022 at 7:12:15 AM

I actually don't remember what happened with Tallahassee?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#80865: Sep 1st 2022 at 7:18:51 AM

[up]Whoever said they wanted to do him had doubts, but I don't remember exactly what was said.

Forgot to mention that when Caldera tells Jimmy and Kim he's calling it quits as a go-between, it's while he gives them the thing that they requested: a drug that'll dilate Howard's eyes and make him look high. I'll fit that in very briefly. It won't be hard.

Also, fun fact: There's a deleted El Camino scene where after Jesse gets the rest of the money and goes with it to Best Quality Vacuum, Ed almost instantly changes his tone and helps him anyway he can.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#80866: Sep 1st 2022 at 7:21:23 AM

I don't think there were concerns with Tallahassee... he gets tricked early on but bounces back well enough. He's just one we're waiting to get to.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#80867: Sep 1st 2022 at 7:26:03 AM

[up]I don't think getting tricked had anything to do with it. I thought maybe part of him was a little racially insensitive as I said before—such as thinking he's Native American because a small part of his DNA is—but as I said, those things are definitely not done out of malice and don't really harm his overall character if you ask me.

Since we now have seven keepers, we want to get started on the header/description and quote for the Breaking Bad page or wait for the rest to come in first?

[down]Those points are pretty infrequent. Also, he still will pick fights with other survivors when they get in his way, so he probably can inch by at least.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Sep 1st 2022 at 7:32:16 AM

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#80868: Sep 1st 2022 at 7:26:28 AM

I thought the issue with Tallahassee was that he could become a bit of a baby when under pressure - “DONT KILL ME WITH MY OWN GUN” being one such instance

Also, is he really a Bastard? Like, he kills zombies, but they’re just zombies, it’s not like the recent Lex where they could be saved and he just doesn’t go for it

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#80869: Sep 1st 2022 at 7:31:20 AM

[tup]Volke

I swear I already voted on this one.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#80870: Sep 1st 2022 at 7:33:13 AM

Either the Nacho or Lalo quote will work great—unless someone has a better one—and here's a description idea:

"Many highly intelligent and troubled criminals like Walter White and Saul Goodman exist in the city of Albuquerque and take half measures, but these ones here are the ones that are nearly flawless and go full measure all the time."

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Sep 1st 2022 at 7:34:37 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#80871: Sep 1st 2022 at 7:35:13 AM

For formatting. How about these categories.

In General

Breaking Bad exclusive

Better Call Saul exclusive.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#80872: Sep 1st 2022 at 7:38:57 AM

May I propose a slight tweak?

"As Walter White and Jimmy McGill navigate the dangerous criminal underworld of Albuquerque, they encounter many particularly devious masterminds who always take full measures to ensure their success."

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#80873: Sep 1st 2022 at 7:40:34 AM

[up]I like it!

[up][up]This is how the current Breaking Bad keepers would be separated then in that case:

In General: Gus, Old Joe, Lawson, Ed.

Better Call Saul: Nacho, Lalo, Caldera.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Sep 1st 2022 at 7:41:08 AM

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#80874: Sep 1st 2022 at 7:42:58 AM

I shall go ahead and make the page then while throwing in the templates unless there's any objections?

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#80875: Sep 1st 2022 at 7:44:36 AM

@STAR I got none.

The order for the In General section good or do we want to tweak it a little?

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Sep 1st 2022 at 7:45:58 AM


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