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Cleanup thread: Magnificent Bastard

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous post 
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

  • Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.

  • What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
    • Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
    • Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
    • Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
    • Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
    • Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.

  • What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.

  • Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.

  • What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
    • Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
    • Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
    • List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
    • The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.

  • How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.

  • What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.

  • What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.

  • What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.

  • Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.

  • What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.

  • Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.

  • What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.

  • Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.

Thread rules

When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.

Resolved items

In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.

However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.

This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.

Definitely an MB

Definitely not an MB

  • South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#79526: Aug 8th 2022 at 6:26:24 AM

Alright now we move onto main villains of Power Rangers Time Force

Who is Ransik?

The most dangerous and powerful criminal in the future of 3000, Ransik is the leader of tvr mutant criminals. In the future, humans are genetically perfected to ensure no disease or corrupted DNA in labs, at least till it went wrong and one specimen mutated. So was born Ransik, he was shunned for his appearance and not being "perfect" and forced to live on the streets where he would eat garbage. Ransik was infected with a virus by a hello mutant called Venomark, he was found and cured by a kind scientist named Dr. Ferricks but Ransiks heart had been filled with hate for mankind at that point that he sadly rejected Ferricks kindness and left him to die in his laboratory. Ferricks would become Frax. He created an entire army of the other mutants to take over this world as payback for what happened to him.

Introduced accquring a time travel device to go to the past in order to conquer it. Ransik is apprehended by Time Force Red I Alex, and put on trial and given a life sentence. But we'll he has an ace up his sleeve. On transport to the cryogenic prison, the rangers stop on the road as the see someone injured. They go to help and it's reveleaed as Ransik's daughter Nadira who uses this distraction to knock them out and have her ally Frax knock the truck of the road and release Ransik as planned. He then uses the same route they were taking to get to the cryogenic prison and defeat the guards and take over the place. But not before fighting and besting Alex in one on one combat to settle the score (with a really cool move off parrying his sword attack and than removing a new bone sword from his neck to strike down Alex).

Anyways in the year 2001, he orders his minions and generals to steal the city's money and jewellery. Before leaving them to handle it after the Rangers suit up. Anyway, he later decides to highjack a television broadcast to aaccouce his plans of world domination to the world, to truly shock them with his arrival. He broadcasts a message for them to surrender well using a Motw who is able to laser destroy stuff as a warning what will happen if they don't give in. Capturing Wes he reveals his backstory to him, but Wes throws it back in his face and Ransik leaves after getting

Over the series he comes up with several plots to defeat the rangers and become richer. From hiring a bounty hunter and old enemy of Jem to get them to releasing a car jacker Mutant to rob the city blind and use the scrap funds to finance his operation. He's also a pretty loving father to Nadira. Always going out of his way to help her and trying to make her happy even lettering her use his army at times for her personal stuff.

Anyway well watching a TV broadcast he notices the Quantam Morpher at a dig site. He sends Brickneck to retrieve it before the Rangers and he expertly does. In fact he only gets stopped by Eric. After that fails, he takes the loss and focuses instead on using his new time travel Mutant to go back in time and acquire the Quantasaurus Rex (the Quantam Ranger Zord). He succeeds and Ransik orders him to destroy the city as the first stage of his world domination plan. This one gets stopped too but hey it came pretty close.

He later sends a monster named Contempera to mind control the male rangers into falling in love with her. This means they won't interfere well he decides to attack the city himself to conquer silver Hills . He's able to easily overpower both female rangers with them on their own and match all their moves. In fact he would have won but his illness kicked in and they destroyed the cure he has on him.

Anyway he sends the monster Cinemicon to trap the rangers in a bunch of corny flicks. Even asking him to get Nadira in one when she wants it

  • Ransik: So Mr Director. I was wondering if you would mind getting Nadira a job on the set?

  • Cinemicon: Uh the film is already done. No can do.

  • Ransik: But shed really like one? Come on?

  • Cinemicon: Well but..
  • Ransik: Ahem let me make this more clear. She is going to be on this film?

Anyway Ransik enters the film as a Mad Max road warrior (get it since Vernon Wells was in that film and commando )

Anyway they duel on bikes and eventually Ransik is defeated but just exits gracefully with a dramatic fake death scene. And giving a thumbs up to Cinemicon.

Anyway Ransik discovers that Frax his second in command Robot is Ferricks who destroys his antidote. Ransik enters and retrieves new samples from Mr. Collins (Wes's father). Well bringing up how badly Collins had been treating Wes.

Anyway in Nadira's dream date, Nadira falls in love with the Blue Ranger Lucas. So Ransik swallows his pride and tries to get him to shower her with love and presents to make her happy (he even tells him what to give her and gives him thumbs-ups?). Even going as far as sabotaging a monster attack on said ranger to keep him safe. When Lucas breaks it off he orders him to go after him to make Nadira feel better.

Anyway out of mutants, Ransik releases serpicon to sabotage the city's power plant and finish Silver Hills and the Rangers once and for all.

When thus fails, Ransik is informed by Gluto that he has found the position of Frax. Ransik captures him and removes his human memories to have him control Doomtron to destroy the city. He has his forced attacks and destroy the Ranger base. His daughter Nadira reveals she's been having second thoughts and ask him to let go off the hate but he refuses as he states it all he has. The Rangers beat Doomtrom and Ransik take them on. He was actually winning till one of his blasts hit his daughter who was saving a baby. She's fine but it causes him to stop what hes doing as he harmed through said hate the one person he cared about. She shows him said baby and their not that different. And ransik let's go of it. He turns himself in and tells Jem he's ready to atone for what he did. He'll he was winning so the impact of what he did can't be underestimated.

Anyway in the next season wild force, they contact Ransik to deal with a group called the Mut Orgs (combination of Orgs and Mutants). Ransik reveals that as a young man he met the Orgs and they gave him his power to remove bones from his bodies and forge Swords. In return his Mutant DNA went into them and turned them immortal. Anyways, he apologies to Jem for what he's done. Anyway Master Org and Mut Orgs plan to blow up a nuclear power station and irritate the planet killing every living thing on it. Ransik sacrifices himself by absorbing and neutralising the Mutant DNA of both himself and the Mut Orgs. Rendering them able to be killed. Ransik is revealed to have survived and with his infection and mutation gone and well gets at least some happy ending with his daughter.

Magnificent?

Hes sauve, cool, funny and awesome. What's not to like?

Like he can deal a curb stomp battle to the rangers and out think them with ingenious plans. Better yet he's the only main villain that was never beaten by the rangers in direct combat. He was winning before he gracefully surrendered.

Bastard?

So Ransik is pretty tame for the most part. Destroy the city and you know the world is quite tame for a PR Big Bad.

Alright I'll talk about what happened with Ferricks. Okay this is bad, killing a guy who had just saved his life. But keep in mind that Ransik had already become far too cynical about people at that point after his rejections.

I also think what happened after needs to be taken into account. Ransik let go off his own hate and nearly gave his own life to save the planet. He basically dedicates the entirety of his life to trying to fix it and taking his punishment. He also loves his daughter dearly. And you keep in mind he's also in between Queen Banssheera and Master Org. Their far worse than him without the FE or redemption. Org is way pettier and frankly viler and Bansheera gives no shit about her kid like Ransik does.

So I think if you take everything he does keep.

Conclusion?

Honestly happy yes.

Edited by miraculous on Aug 8th 2022 at 7:00:36 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#79527: Aug 8th 2022 at 6:27:18 AM

[tup] to Ransik

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#79528: Aug 8th 2022 at 6:36:59 AM

So let's go with my next Fire Emblem candidate and let's look at the first GBA game, Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade and talk about the right-hand man of the main villain Zephiel, the towering General Murdock.

What is the setting?

Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade is the first Fire Emblem game in the GBA. Taking place in Elibe, the story is about Roy, the noble son of Eliwood Marque of Pherae, and his journey of liberating his nation against the invading forces of Bern led by King Zephiel, gathering a ragtag bunch of warriors of all kind to his army, all the while learning a secret plot involving the legendary dragons which has ruined the worlds.

In his journey to defeat Bern, Roy encounters a number of powerful foes where despite every situations he faces, he manage to overcome it. In his journey to confront and defeat Zephiel, he ends up having to face the king's main army, led by his personal retainer, the renown general of Bern, General Murdock.

Who is Murdock and what does he do?

Murdock is the personal retainer and bodyguard of Zephiel ever since he was a boy. Appearinf first timeline wise in te prequel story, he was a former peasant who rose to the ranks with his skills and talent, he was look so fondly by the royal family he was given his position in Zephiel's side. Even Desmond saw Zephiel as a great soldier and planned to spare him from his attempted assassination fo Zephiel, sending Murdock away in a mission during the night the Black Fang was gonna kill Zephiel. Learning about what happened and horrified that he was trick and Zephiel could've killed for it, Murdock became so much more attentitve then after, giving a warp staff to Eliwood's group before he decides to approach Queen Hellene about what happened to Zephiel. This drove him and his liege to concoct a plan to put an end to Desmond targeting Zephiel.

Their plan was to fake Zephiel's death and pretend Desmond's plan work, with Murdock planning the whole funeral and the scenario that led to the announcement of his demise. However Desmond being paranoid as he is demanded the coffin in the funeral to be open and finding out it was empty, only for the real plan to be revealed, that Zephiel would ambush Desmond during his funeral and kill his treacherous father. As that catalyst of Zephiel's villainy, Murdock then joins his master in his conquest to replace the world with dragons as the leader one of the 3 generals and the leader of them and with his skills help his liege conquer most of the continent, him being put in charge of the invasion Ilia and help support the invasion of the Lycia.

Manage to conquer most of Ilia and managing to drive Lycia to the brink, Murdock manage to maintain his responsible until the incompotence of Narcian gave Roy the chance to regroup the Lycian army against Bern which led them to liberate the other nations which include Ilia. Seeing what has happened, Murdock decide to force Narcian into trying to defeat Roy's army, where if he does succeed their biggest threat will be eliminated, while failure means the disposal of an incompotent general, and his own lieutenant, Wyvern Captain Galle, will take it place. The latter happened after the group defeats Narcian, and while this happen Murdock maintains his hold on Ilia, until he was recalled back to Bern by Zephiel after buying him enough time for his plans to give the world back to the dragon.

Setting down in the upcoming final battle against Roy's army, Murdock awaits in the Shrine of Seals along with Galle where he expresses great intrigue by Roy's strength and awaits to battle him, although showing regret he is also force to fight his own countrymen like Milady and Zeiss. With his massive army at hand with countless reinforcements of wyverns, cavalier, knights, and infatry, as well as having Galle and potentially Pereth, Murdock is able to stand as one of the most challenging foes towards Roy's army in his formation alone, when fighting him, Murdock proves that he's no slouch either, with a great set of weaponry and having more health then possible for the game to have, Murdock stands as a mighty wall for the army to face. In the end when Murdock is defeated, he shows great respect to the enemy and only regretting he can no longer Zephiel, coming out of the battle as a worthy adversary for Roy's forces to face.

Is he Magnificent?

Murdock is considered one of the most powerful and respected soldiers in Bern and he showcases why with ease. Being a towering and skilled soldier, Murdock is able to go toe-to-toe with anyone and everyone being one of the most difficult bosses in the game, for his extremely high HP which breaks the limits of the game, his multiple arsenal of weapons which can counter most forces, and his fortifide position leading the main army of Bern against Roy, dealing one of the hardest levels in the game because of how dangerous he is and the neverending reinforcements of elite soldiers he got in his disposal including another boss Galle. Don't be surprise to potentially lose a unit in this fight.

And to show how charismatic he is, Murdock's own men are still willing to fight for him even after his death. Aside from that, Murdock does show he can stand in the same footing as Zephiel when it comes strategy and leadership, having used his position to force Narcian into a battle that corners Roy's army but also could remove the narcassitic and provenly incompetent general while being of use, and even sending Arcanun to his death after hating the guy's cowardiness.

Too much of a Bastard?

Murdock is probably one of the nicest antagonist in the series, being honorable, kind, and generally an affable leader to his men, to the point his men were willing to serve him even after his death. Even in his battle, he shows no contempt, praising Roy as a worthy enemy and lamenting fighting Milady admitting he doesn't want to fight her, but will since she is with the enemy.

However for all his virtue, Murdock is still an antagonist and does still support Zephiel in his actions which includes some pretty reprehensible operations like massacring armies and supporting unsavory associates, although Murdock himself has step out of boundaries to arrange their demise out of personal disgust.

Final Verdict:

I say this guy is another solid keeper and after him I got one more person to consider.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#79530: Aug 8th 2022 at 6:59:14 AM

[tup] Ransik and Murdock the Immovable Object!

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#79531: Aug 8th 2022 at 7:01:32 AM

[tup]Murdock

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#79532: Aug 8th 2022 at 7:38:19 AM

Yes to those two, and one of my own: From Spartacus, Blood and Sand:

Spartacus.

Who is Spartacus?

A Thracian warrior, engaged in conflict with the Getae. This Thracian allies with the Roman legions under Gaius Claudius Glaber to defend their homeland, but ultimately Glaber betrays them for his own glory. His wife Sura, a seer, warns her husband thus: he will see rest only under a red serpent. The Thracian double crosses Rome in turn to defeat the Getae, but Glaber's spite sees him captured, his wife sold to slavery and the Thracian sent to Capua for execution in the arenas. He wins, bought by Quintus Batiatus and given the name...

Spartacus. A brilliant gladiator, killing for the pleasure of the crowds, Spartacus cares only for saving his wife Sura, while also embarrassing Batiatus. Spartacus fights his way from the darkest pits to face the strongest gladiator, the Spartan Theokoles. Through his genius? He wins, and becomes honored by Batiatus. Batiatus reunites Spartacus and Sura, but has Sura murdered as not to lose Spartacus as a gladiator. Things get dark, when the fallen gladiator Ashur has another gladiator murdered, leaving his lover at the mercy of a vicious rapist named Gnaeus. When the boy kills himself, Spartacus murders Gnaeus on the spot. Spartacus is forced to have a practice match with his friend Varro...but the capricious Romans demand Varro be killed, and Varro tells Spartacus to do it or they'll both die.

Realizing the depths of Batiatus's evil, Spartacus plots a rebellion. Spartacus is forced to a fight with the other top Gladiator, Crixus, but instead connives a way to escape and initiates a massacre of Batiatus's men, ending as he faces Batiatus and spits his words of fate back to him before opening his throat. Now on the run, the gladiators, Spartacus begins to liberate slaves and keep ahead of Glaber, who's returned.

Spartacus manages to assist the rest to the best he can, saving slaves from the mines and even infiltrating Rome to the arena itself to initiate a massacre of Roman soldiers and to save the captives there. Spartacus uses his men, posing as Romans, to liberate more slaves and swell their forces, also allying with a force of German warriors . Fleeing to Mt. Vesuvius, Spartacus awaits the return of none other than than Glaber, luring his army to a trap and smashing it, ending as he and Glaber duel personally and Spartacus dealing a final blow to his nemesis.

Now leading a vast army that threaten Rome itself, Spartacus infiltrates another city, gets the drop on the Roman consuls and kills them.Things fracture from rebel factions as the Roman Marcus Licinius Crassus faces Spartacus...Julius Caesar infiltrates the rbeels and sows dissent, while Spartacus keeps his rebellion together. While cornered, Spartacus keeps his men on the front and escapes. Unfortunately, Crixus takes a force to ravage Italy and is killed by Crassus's forces, prompting Spartacus to force captive Romans into death matches to honor his friend.

Realizing they can't retreat further, Spartacus makes a stand against Crassus, in a pitched fury. In the resulting battle, Spartacus realizes they can't prevail against the discipline of Roman troops, but makes a charge for Crassus himself, knowing only killing him will turn the tide. Entering a personal duel with Crassus, Spartacus manages to overcome him (crassus is no wimp, the man is an expert warrior who trained with gladiators specifically to beat them), but before Spartacus can kill him, Crassus's men intervene and hurl three javelins in Spartacus's back. Crassus praises him, telling him he wishes Spartacus was a Roman. Spartacus? "I thank all the gods that was not so."

Spartacus's remaining friends manage to rush in and take his body, where Spartacus slowly dies in the company of loved ones, relieved he will return to his wife at last, dying a symbol of freedom for so many centuries to come.

His gravesite marked by an armband with a red serpent upon it.

Mitigating issues?

Hell. No. Spartacus is a hero with a LOT of brains. He organizes a slave revolt. His tactics are brilliant. Spartacus is undoubtedly one of the best fighters in the series, but his brains and strategic acumen are given heavy emphasis. His utter charisma is what keeps the rebels following him in both actors who portray (sadly his first actor Andy Whitfield died of cancer between seasons, but urged the showrunners to recast the part because he wanted the story told.)

Spartacus does a lot. I've had to truncate this down because almost every episode he's doing something cool and intelligent. Now, at the start of S1, he dances on Batiatus's string until he learns of the man's treachery and overcomes him (Batiatus DOES NOT count for MB, do not even ask, the man routinely rapes his slaves).

The only slight issue is Spartacus's involvement in the rape of Glaber's wife (bear with me)....gladiators are sometimes given to noble women for pleasure, with both parties masked. Illythia requests a specific gladiator and Spartacus is made to go along with it. Neither knows the other's identity and Batiatus specifically makes the switch to blackmail Illythia. (And Spartacus HATES Illythia and Glaber), so Spartacus is as much a victim as Illythia, he's sickened and furious when the mask comes off).

Spartacus makes mistakes, but his emotional pathos, his love for his friends....and yeah, he's bad enough. Easily bad enough, in fact. What he does with forcing captive soldiers into fatal gladiator games is a war crime and while it's nowhere near the atrocities Rome commits on the daily, it's easily bad enough for this.

Spartacus is full of characters I'd love to see for this if not for serious issues (ESPECIALLY Glaber's rival Solonius who is an amazing schmer but is overcome by Batiatus in the end, even if his death is fantastic,) but Spartacus himself? I think he hits it well.

Conclusion?

I.

Am.

SPARTACUS

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#79533: Aug 8th 2022 at 7:40:26 AM

All hail Spartacus.

EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#79534: Aug 8th 2022 at 7:41:19 AM

[tup] Spartacus, Murdock, and a hell yes to Ransik.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#79535: Aug 8th 2022 at 7:51:23 AM

He is, indeed, Spartacus. [tup] to him

It's Spooky Month!
PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
#79536: Aug 8th 2022 at 7:57:53 AM

Yes to Ransik, Murdock, & Spartacus.

I think the Moonshine Mob already needs a rewrite. No offense to Rhino, as I’m pretty sure it’s their first, but it’s way too long for what it admits is a 2-minute boss fight, and the last two sentences are just gushing.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#79537: Aug 8th 2022 at 8:03:23 AM

[tup]SPARTACUS

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#79538: Aug 8th 2022 at 8:04:45 AM

Feel free to make some suggestions Guma.

Yes to Ransik, Murdock and Spartacus himself.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Riley1sCool Since: Dec, 2014
#79540: Aug 8th 2022 at 8:21:18 AM

Yes to Ransik, Murdock, and the man himself Spartacus.

We seem busy. I'll hold off my next EP until tomorrow. I just hope it isn't too much of a boar.

PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
#79541: Aug 8th 2022 at 8:24:40 AM

How about:

  • The Moonshine Mob are a group of criminal insects who guard the Distillery Dough, one of the Wondertart's ingredients. First to fight the cups is the Spider, who summons bombs and reinforcements at the press of a button, followed by the Light Bug, who seduces the police to attack the cups while emitting harmful soundwaves from her gramophone. Last is the Announcer Snail, the Mob's boss, riding the giant Anteater who attacks with his tongue—sometimes faking out—and by flinging the insects he's eaten. After the Anteater's defeat, a fake knockout screen is shown before the Snail bombards the cups with his own soundwaves from his megaphone.

Edited by PurpleEyedGuma on Aug 8th 2022 at 11:28:30 AM

DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#79542: Aug 8th 2022 at 8:33:28 AM

[tup] to Murdock, Ransik and Spartacus.

[up] Looks good.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
Melinda Since: Dec, 2019 Relationship Status: Puppy love
#79544: Aug 8th 2022 at 10:33:09 AM

[up] to Ransik

Hope your both doing well Bull and Tell.

jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#79545: Aug 8th 2022 at 10:43:05 AM

[tup]Ransik, Murdock, Spartacus.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#79547: Aug 8th 2022 at 12:26:09 PM

Yes to Ransik, Murdock, and Spartacus.

On to my next WarCraft candidate, one of the OG characters, and one of the greatest Chessmasters of the franchise.

Who is Medivh?

The Magus and the Last Guardian, Medivh is one of Warcraft's oldest and most iconic characters dating back all the way to the original RTS game from 1994. Medivh is the son of previous Guardian of Tirisfal, Aegwynn, and the court mage of Stormwind, Nielas Aran. The Guardians of Tirisfal were an order of powerful sorcerers dedicated to protecting the world of Azeroth from the demonic hordes of the Burning Legion. Aegwynn was the most powerful Guardian in history and defeated an avatar of Sargeras, the Legion's master, but secretly Sargeras implanted himself in her womb and possessed her unborn son Medivh. Medivh was left in the care of his father after his birth and raised alongside his childhood friends Anduin Lothar and Prince Llane Wrynn. When he became a teenager, Sargeras's spirit fully awakened inside him and tried to take over, but Medivh's will was powerful and he spent much of the rest of his life constantly pushing back the Dark Titan's control over him. While it was ultimately a losing battle, it speaks volumes of Medivh's mental strength that he was able to hold back a god's influence for so long.

He would eventually take over ownership of his mother's tower of Karazhan and periodically fall into comas where Sargeras took control. Sargeras made contact with the orc warlock Gul'dan and worked with him to create the Dark Portals that bridged the worlds of Draenor and Azeroth, allowing the Orcish Horde to invade. In the meantime, Medivh took on an apprentice named Khadgar and took in an orcish ambassador named Garona who was his contact with Gul'dan. During this time and during his brief bouts of control, Medivh mentored Khadgar and slowly tried to shape him into someone who could discover his possession and stop his plans, and also fell in love with the half blood Garona and fathered a child with her named Med'an. Khadgar and Garona eventually discovered the truth and worked with Lothar to invade the tower and put Medivh out of his misery. At his death, his spirit became free of Sargeras's influence and he began wondering Azeroth spying upon the machinations of the Burning Legion and their new pawn, the Undead Scourge.

Witnessing the slow rise of the Plague of Undeath, Medivh knew no one in the living world could hear his warnings and thus instead sought out his mother to resurrect him. Sending his mother dreams of ravens, Aegwynn recognized her son's spirit was free from demonic influence and successfully revived him. Thus, Medivh began his long game of preventing the Legion's second invasion from being successful. Knowing the Legion's end goal would be the World Tree in far off Kalimdor, Medivh knew he would have to convince as many people as possible to travel there to both protect it and to escape the coming Plague of Undeath. Taking the identity of a mysterious prophet, Medivh gave dire warnings to King Terenas Menethil of Lordaeron and Archmage Antonidas of Dalaran. After they wouldn't listen, Medivh granted nightmarish visions of the Legion to the current orcish Warchief Thrall and successfully convinced him to take his people across the sea. He then tried to convince Prince Arthas Menethil to quit his path of self destruction and go as well, but he ultimately settled for the Prince's mage companion Jaina Proudmoore after allowing her to witness the horrors of the Scourge.

While Jaina took what people she could gather across the sea, Medivh abandoned the rest of Lordaeron to its doom realizing time had run out. Taking the guise of an oracle, he would come before both Thrall and Jaina and prevent them from engaging in open conflict and convince them to work together. Seeing the Night Elves native to Kalimdor beginning conflict with the orcs and humans, Medivh sent dreams to their leaders Tyrande and Malfurion to meet with Thrall and Jaina and combine their forces. Finally revealing his identity, he masterminds a final plot to end the Legion's invasion and destroy their acting military leader, Archimonde the Defiler. While the forces of the humans, elves, and orcs create bases to hold off Archimonde's advance up the World Tree, Malfurion will gather up the power of the forest and summon hordes of wisps that destroy Archimonde. With the Legion's invasion halted, Medivh leaves to wander the cosmos to fight other graver threats with his great power. To further help the people of Azeroth, he leaves behind a shade in Karazhan that would help later individuals to fight threats like the Legion and the Old Gods including his son Med'an, his apprentice Khadgar, and the black dragon Wrathion.

Is he magnificent?

Medivh is a brilliant strategist that devised a long term plan to halt an entire demonic invasion in its track, and had the powerful strength of will to hold of an evil god for most of his life while still working against him in his moments of lucidity. When not possessed, he was a kind and wise mage that wanted to make up for his past failings. He's easily got the intellect and personality for this.

Is he a bastard?

Obviously, I'm not going to include any of the evil he does while possessed against him, but his later interactions do show he's not above being underhanded to get his plans moving forward. He encourages Thrall to fight and kill humans trying to prevent the orcs from escaping Lordaeron. More shadily, he emotionally manipulates Jaina by waiting until she has been mentally broken down from seeing Arthas spiral into evil before coming to her and convincing her of crossing the sea. Ultimately, he was even willing to abandon the rest of Lordaeron's people to death when their leaders wouldn't listen to him.

Final Verdict?

I'm thinking an easy [tup] for Warcraft's original Chessmaster.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Klavice (Elder Troper)
#79548: Aug 8th 2022 at 12:59:44 PM

Yes to Spartacus, Ransik, Murdock and Medivah.

As for the multiple lords as MB, it wasn't until Micaiah that we had a true morally Grey lord with the majority being All-Loving Hero.

Edited by Klavice on Aug 8th 2022 at 1:01:08 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#79549: Aug 8th 2022 at 1:34:34 PM

[tup] to Spartacus, Ransik, Murdock and Medivah.

So I'm in my hotel room and since I have time I got a EP up and running, so lets discuss. This candidate comes from the movie 22 Jump Street so lets talk about it.

What’s The Work?

22 Jump Street is a 2014 American buddy cop action comedy film, serving as a sequel to Film/21JumpStreet. The premise here is that cops Morton Schmidt and Greg Jenko go undercover in a college as students in order to find a supplier of a new drug called WHYPHY. They eventually find who the mastermind behind the WHYPHY drug operation and her name is Mercedes.

Who Is She? What Has She Done?

Mercedes is the daughter of the infamous crime lord The Ghost and is the mastermind behind distributing of the WHYPHY drug throughout her college campus having people sell her drugs to students there which gets the attention when one her dealers gets killed by using her own drugs.

This would lead to cops, Schmidt and Jenko to go undercover at her campus to figure out whose the mastermind behind the drug distribution ring, though they never come close to figuring out Mercedes being the true culprit, initially believing Zook to the culprit (Zook was only a buyer), while Mercedes manages to avoid their suspicion and gets away with making snarky insults towards Schmidt, and framing her psychology professor for her crimes.

However Schmidt and Jenko would soon learn about Mercedes’s plan to distribute her drugs during a Spring Break party and would spot Greg and Jenko spying on her. Mercedes would having her goons attack the cops while she and her father would flee from them, with Mercedes taking their captain Dickson hostage as she flees from Schmidt.

Schmidt would pursue Mercedes and eventually fight her allowing Dickson to escape from being Mercedes’s hostage only for her to hold Schmidt hostage as Dickson holds her at gunpoint. Luckily, Dickson’s daughter, Maya, knock’s Mercedes out from behind freeing Schmidt, allowing him to help Jenko to stop The Ghost, and foil his and Mercedes’s plan.

Is She Intelligent? Is She Charismatic?

As the daughter of a notorious criminal, Mercedes proves herself to be very cunning and charismatic, being the mastermind behind distributing her father’s drugs throughout her campus, having her father’s men and recruiting students to distribute her drugs for her, and manage to evade the duos suspicion while continue her drug operation under her nose and successfully frame a college professor for her crimes.

It helps that Mercedes proves to be a calm and cool badass herself managing to hold a police captain hostage and fighting a cop herself all while hardly ever loosing her cool (she does have an awkward moment where her face is close to Schmidt’s before backing off, but she quickly retains her composure and remains calm throughout the movie). In the end she’s only stopped because Maya caught her by surprise.

What’s The Competition Like?

Mercedes is probable the smartest and arguably the most level-headed and badass villain in the film series. While her fathers pretty badass and intimidating, he’s not much of a thinker, while Mercedes is the brains behind their operations.

the first film’s Big Bad, Mr. Walters, doesn’t count as he’s gets an undignified end by having his penis shot by Schmidt and subjects Eric Molson to Prison Rape in the sequel, so yeah Mercedes clears the competition by being the smartest bad guy while suffering no slapstick or humiliation throughout the movie.

Is She a Bitch? Is She Too Much of a Bitch?

Well Mercedes willingly partakes in her father’s criminal activities, distributes illegal drugs all over her campus, frames an innocent professor for her crimes with her reasons for targeting that professor being that he gave her a bad grade, tries to have two of her dealers killed for getting high on her own drugs, shoots Captain Dickson in the foot before taking him hostage before taking Schmidt hostage and preparing to kill him, so yeah I’d say she’s a bitch.

That said Mercedes does not commit any atrocious pointless, nor disgusting crimes, does seem to care for her father having an civil working relationship with him, her reasons for ordering her two subordinates kill was for pragmatic reasons in that they took her drugs which bring unwanted attention to her, and while she does target her professor for something disproportionate, she does need someone to frame her crimes or else cops while continue to be searching until they find their culprit so it works out for her, so yeah not too much of a bitch.

Final Verdict?

I’ll leave it to you guys.

Edited by G-Editor on Aug 8th 2022 at 4:35:45 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#79550: Aug 8th 2022 at 1:56:48 PM

Yes to Medivh but no to Mercedes, she's a parody of an asshole roommate for much of the film and airs her petty grievances in her framing. You can glean some intelligence from her being her father's cohort but I don't think there's enough emphasis beyond just being a comical underling with her sexual frustrations towards Schmidt.


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