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Cleanup thread: Magnificent Bastard

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous post 
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

  • Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.

  • What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
    • Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
    • Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
    • Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
    • Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
    • Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.

  • What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.

  • Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.

  • What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
    • Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
    • Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
    • List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
    • The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.

  • How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.

  • What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.

  • What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.

  • What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.

  • Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.

  • What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.

  • Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.

  • What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.

  • Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.

Thread rules

When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.

Resolved items

In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.

However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.

This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.

Definitely an MB

Definitely not an MB

  • South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#69851: Feb 19th 2022 at 1:35:24 PM

Cheers, thank you for understanding.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#69852: Feb 19th 2022 at 1:36:21 PM

Oh yeah I remember now Quagmire mentions to Brian that cats uses their poop to brainwash people. That is easily militating. I hope my video clip also help things

Edited by G-Editor on Feb 19th 2022 at 4:44:48 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#69853: Feb 19th 2022 at 1:41:29 PM

Question: because we have animal keepers, would any of the Graboids be viable?

[tup]Macready

Edited by nwotyzal on Feb 19th 2022 at 1:44:07 AM

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#69854: Feb 19th 2022 at 1:42:08 PM

On The Thing (1982) ([tup] for MacReady by the way), is there any chance that The Thing itself might count (1982 version only)? The character page indicates in an Adaptational Intelligence section that this one is the most devious iteration yet by deliberately avoiding too obvious suspects (Clark and Garry) and messing with the blood supplies. Plus, assuming one of the last two survivors is a Thing, the last scene where a bottle of whiskey is shared is apparently a Worthy Opponent scene.

Edited by k410ren on Jun 14th 2022 at 11:04:10 AM

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#69855: Feb 19th 2022 at 1:48:28 PM

I don’t think it counts. The thing itself is purposely made quite mysterious and some of the details on how possession works are unclear, giving us next to nothing on how it thinks and operates internally.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#69856: Feb 19th 2022 at 1:59:06 PM

[tup]Mac Ready

You know fun fact the whole Toxoplasma brainwashing people through cat poop Is actually true to an extent. I learned that from my parasite studies

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#69857: Feb 19th 2022 at 2:08:48 PM

[tup] Mac Ready

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#69858: Feb 19th 2022 at 2:09:05 PM

Agreeing with 43 that I think the Thing itself is way too ambiguous on how it operates, some tie-in materials make it appear to be one entity, only for others to very explicitly stated "the Thing" is not one creature, but just a duplicating parasite that transforms people into more of its kind. It's very much a mysterious entity and on top of how the film very much plays up the sheer disgusting, vile horror of what it is, I can't see it for this.

On a similar 80s movie note though, major love for the new pfp, 43!

In regards to Family Guy and frankly all adult comedies, we're much more likely to find candidates in things like The Simpsons or Inside Job than Fam Guy or South Park. The latter two are basically built around shock, gross-out humor as years have gone on. It's like looking for a horror Keeper in a bloody, gorey schlocky flick, you're gonna have much more luck with something more reserved and dignified.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#69859: Feb 19th 2022 at 2:48:48 PM

Yes to Macready. I actually had The Thing on my mind a couple days ago. Not for the thread, just wondering about its themes, the purpose of the Body Horror (LONG LIVE THE NEW FLESH), what the alien is, whether it's truly malevolent or just acting in self defence etc. The film's remained popular for a reason.

The Thing itself (lol accidental Philosophy reference) is indeed not really characterised enough. Like, we have many Predators up (I remain proud of getting the Jungle Hunter from the first Predator up myself) and we have some Xenomorphs up, but there we get a little more characterisation, even with the Xenos since those are mostly from video games where we have a first hand look at what they think.

I know we got some keepers from Rick and Morty, but yeah, adult cartoon comedies are not generally conducive to this thread and R and M managed it by having enough of a dramatic core so that not everything is a joke about how life is pointless. Yeah, maybe you can get an MB from Family Guy but would it be worth the effort? Maybe just focus on, like Ravok said, stuff like The Simpsons.

Edited by PolarPhantom on Feb 19th 2022 at 2:49:33 AM

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#69860: Feb 19th 2022 at 2:53:39 PM

Speaking of adult animated comedies, I have been thinking of Charles Offdensen, the band manager, from Metalocalypse.

Edit: After looking over his character page and being reminded of a few episodes, I think he would be an easy keeper if I did an effort post.

Edited by LoreDeluxe on Feb 19th 2022 at 2:58:19 AM

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Idisagree Since: Jun, 2011
#69861: Feb 19th 2022 at 3:15:53 PM

[up] Speaking of Metalocalypse (I'm a fan of that show), I heard there's finally going to be a Series Finale movie coming out. I think we should keep an eye on Mr. Salacia. Depending on the finale, he could easily keep. Charles is probably our best current bet though so go for it.

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#69862: Feb 19th 2022 at 3:20:20 PM

I'd honestly lean Salacia more towards CM by the end of the current show.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#69865: Feb 19th 2022 at 7:42:44 PM

[tup] Macready

Would anyone be worth looking in the 2011 Prequel? I only remember the most antagonistic character being a Smug Snake

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
Amanofmanyinterests Gotta love Jaws! Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#69867: Feb 20th 2022 at 12:21:46 AM

Oh right, to give anyone who wants it time to do the proposal before Tuesday, I'mma just give up my reservation for Catwoman: Hunted here. There is absolutely a proposal worth doing, and I haaaaad intended on handling it, but I'mma be honest, considering I spent the entirety of the film laughing my ass off at ridiculous animations, gawking at poor story choices and spamming people I know with the hilarity of it all, I have pretty much zero desire to rewatch pertinent scenes for the proposal that I have already forgotten lol so y'all have at it

Edited by Ravok on Feb 20th 2022 at 12:22:11 PM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Klavice (Elder Troper)
#69868: Feb 20th 2022 at 1:13:27 AM

Yes to Macdaddy Macready.

I'm gonna stay out of the Family Guy discussion. There's a reason we banned discussion on South Park, I've watched almost every episode played the two games, and while I do like it, I think it's best to focus on shows that are tame with adult jokes with exceptions being Rick & Morty, The Boondocks, and Archer for example. Shows that don't involve a literal HC joke involving an Apple device and Steve Jobs.

I'm claiming discussion on the recently announced MLP A New Generation series if nobody else has claimed it. I know MLP is a touchy subject here and on CM but I'm biting the bullet and taking it on especially since I didn't mind the film. It helps some of my favourite voice actors were in it like Kimiko Glenn.

Edited by Klavice on Feb 20th 2022 at 1:14:43 AM

TotemGenitor Bye Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#69870: Feb 20th 2022 at 7:14:21 AM

[up][up][up] So it's not good then? grin

[up][up] I think there is more leeway with an MB in a show like this rather than a CM. Sponge Bob has some MB characters, but doesn't have any CM characters.

Yes to Mac Ready.

Edited by Overlord on Feb 20th 2022 at 7:16:47 AM

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#69871: Feb 20th 2022 at 8:33:28 AM

Writeups! Sorry these took so long, I got hugely distracted on the CM thread, but here ya go. I'm gonna slightly restructure the tree since we've now got two keepers from the same comic, so here it is (nothing changed in the existing entries besides the formatting, just for the record):

  • Green Arrow:
    • Professor Merlin, the "Dean of Deviltry", is the first of Green Arrow's villains to ever escape the legendary archer. As the lead professor of the "Crime College", Merlin runs a tight carjacking operation, having stolen thousands of dollars in merchandise over the years. When Green Arrow catches on to him, Merlin stays one step ahead of him, catching him off guard and even breaking his bow during their confrontation before escaping. Later recruited by the Hand, Merlin is hired to steal gold from Cactus Mike, managing to fend off Green Arrow the entire time and even letting the hero go when his goal is in his sights.
    • More Fun Comics:
      • Issue #79, "The Boomerang": The Boomerang, formerly an attorney named Martin Flint, is a revenger for hire who specializes in karmic vengeance. Introduced managing to have a judge's door electrocute him at the same time that someone he sentenced to death is electrocuted, the Boomerang is later hired to judge Warden Lawson, having him break rocks just like his prison's chain gangs. Managing to trick Green Arrow and Speedy into joining him, Boomerang later pulls a complex gambit to trick Green Arrow into thinking he's retreating, when in reality he's simply biding his time to "rescue" him. Coming closer to killing Green Arrow than any other villain he faced, Boomerang later falls in the water during the battle, leaving Speedy certain that he'll one day return for them.
      • Issue #96, "The Weather Prophet": The Timer is a meteorologist who uses his supreme predictions of the weather to commit crimes, introduced doing so by robbing a loan company and driving straight into an unpredicted snow storm, surviving thanks to the skid chains on his car. Later robbing a jewelry store, the Timer then escapes from Green Arrow and Speedy thanks to a nearby river flooding, allowing him to use a boat he'd planted the previous day. The Timer then tricks a plane leaving the treasury into diverting to an airfield he's taken for himself, outsmarting the heroes along the way and even cutting the lights on the airfield when the try to land, causing their plane to crash.
  • 1-800-Missing:
    • Assistant Director John Pollock is the leader of the Missing Person's Task Force and, despite his arrogant demeanor, proves to be far more capable and intelligent than he lets on. Coming into his own when he releases a dangerous criminal so she'll lead them to a dangerous weapon, Pollock uses his knowledge and connections to benefit any case he can, using varying strategies like going on a date with a suspect and giving her his PDA to track her; blackmailing an ambassador through the knowledge of his affairs; having a fleeing criminal kidnapped by a Brazilian General, even telling the General to do whatever he wants to him; and often working his own angles on cases while the rest of the team works theirs. Whether it's kidnappers, murderers, or even other departments of the government, Pollock knows when to fight and when to back off, always ensuring that the FBI comes out on top of any other agency or person that tries to take him down.
    • Everyone else

And also, a potential quote, though I can go either way:

John Pollock: I gave her my Bureau PDA.
Acting AD Jim Michaelson: Oh, that's brilliant. So this highly disturbed woman is going to pick up all our communications. She's gonna know every move we make.
Agent Antonio Cortez: And we know where she is.
Agent Nicole Scott: Every second. That thing you gave her has tracking on it, doesn't it sir?
Pollock: Of course. I've also told Dr. Reynolds that she's your prime suspect. At the moment she's probably getting out of dodge... Follow the signal from my PDA and you'll find the girl.
Jess Mastriani: You're great, sir.
Pollock: Dr. Reynolds is great. A master liar, a genius manipulator... I'm just better.

YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#69873: Feb 20th 2022 at 9:11:02 AM

  • The Thing :R.J. MacReady, the team's gruff, alcoholic helicopter pilot, proves to be the one person on the research capable of matching wits with the Thing. When the Thing begins assimilating the team one after another, MacReady deduces not only the alien's nature but that it poses a threat to all life, leading to him taking command of a paranoid, mutinous crew to stop the alien no matter what. So ruthlessly pragmatic he'd sooner burn the entire board and all of its players than risk a loss of his own, MacReady ends the film doing exactly that, surviving a one-on-one fight with the Thing and annihilating the research camp so it can't go dormant. Accepting his impending demise from Antarctic cold with a bottle of Scotch and cool stoicism, MacReady is the most levelheaded character in the movie and one of the most badass action survivors put to film.

ANewMan A total has-been. Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A total has-been.
#69874: Feb 20th 2022 at 9:14:13 AM

[ THIS PART OF THE THREAD HAS BEEN MOD-REDACTED] -Synchronicity

Belated second Star Driver EP (and since I decided to throw away my to-do list, possibly the last EP I will ever contribute to this thread, we'll have to wait and see. sad). The character has an entry on the YMMV page right now, so if she makes the cut, I'll see about possibly revising it.

Who is Kanako Watanabe? What has she done? - Kanako Watanabe is the leader of the Adult Bank faction of the Glittering Crux Brigade, under the moniker of "President." Her civillian identity is well known at Southern Cross High not only for her odd tendency to give male students a "kiss through the glass", which is what she calls it when she kisses the transparent window out to the hallway while a male student is standing in said hallway, but for being a "High School wife." And yes, they mean that literally, for Kanako is, at only age 15, currently engaged to a much older but very wealthy man who allows her access to a large portion of his private fortune, which she's used to buy several assets. She proudly shows off her wedding ring whenever she can, and freely admits that she's a Gold Digger in a mutually loveless marriage that's held together "by the unbreakable bonds of greed."

As herself, Kanako tends to act like a flighty, airheaded floozy and while generally laid back and friendly, can be an insensitive jerk to others far below her social standing even when she seldom every intends any malice in her words and actions. This is actually a cover for how astute, competent, and brilliant the girl truly is. She owns a large yacht with a pool on its top deck and even a pet crocodile, and she has multiple servants keeping it regularly clean and the crocodile regularly fed. We're shown how savvy she is in her husband's business world and how good she is at weighing financial decisions for the company she co-owns. As President, she's just as laid back but also a very shrewd pragmatist: her perspective on the Crux's actions, as she sees it, is that any action is justified in order to preserve the world and regulate the vast power of the Cybodies, no matter how personally regrettable it might be. That said, she does draw lines when she has to, as shown in Manticore's plan with the Cybody Ayingott, and the schemes of Keito and Head that involve Samekh. We also see that she is often monitoring her assistants/underlings and knowing what other people are planning or doing but choosing to not act so long as she senses no threat for any possible outcome in the immediate future.

At the midpoint of the show, Kananko's personal maid and underling in Adult Bank, Simone Aragon AKA Secretary, makes a bid to betray Kanako, with it being revealed that Simone is actually Pamela Watanabe, the daughter of Kanako's husband, Leon Watanabe, from another woman. She only learned the truth from her mother about a year before the events of the series and, blaming Kanako for "stealing" from a family that was rightfully hers' and for keeping her parents apart, secretly schemed to take revenge. But it turns out to be All for Nothing when Simone's older sister reveals to Simone that their father marrying Kanako was their mother's idea to start with, partially in gratitude for Kanako having saved Simone from a terrible vehicle accident a year back. Kanako also knew the whole time who Simone really was and what she was really after, but played dumb so that Simone never suspected a thing. When Simone asks Kanako why she helped her recover from the accident, accepted her to work for her, and let her continue working for her if she knew all along pretended not to know that "Simone" was only pretending to be her loyal servant, Kanako responded with a simple answer: It Amused Me. Despite claiming to still hate Kanako, Simone's respect and secret liking for her goes up following this event.

In the following episode, it comes Kanako's turn to fight against Tauburn and we see not only how strategically gifted she is, but that she's been training her fighting skills every day via boxing, to the point where she's a champion level boxer who's able to knock out her practice opponent in a single right hook jab. She puts up one of the most competent fights out of all the Crux members against Takuto, and when he gains the upper hand through moves she wasn't ready for, rather than get infuriated, Kanako gets ecstatic and is thrilled to be giving it her all against Takuto all the way to her defeat, which she accepts with grace. The next day, she drives by in her limo to greet Takuto on his way to school, and to "reward" him for the fight, she offers a kiss through the glass of her car window....only when Takuto leans in for it, Kanako rolls the window down and actually kisses Takuto on the lips, successfully stealing his first kiss and being all too pleased about it.

During the final arc of the series, three members of Kanako's faction - Takeshi/Banker, Madoka/Needle Star, and Kou/Window Star, have gained marks and betrayed her by defecting to Vanishing Age. Kanako chooses to not pursue vengeance for this, allowing the three to continue working for her business in their off time. This pays off when eventaully not only do Madoka and Kou end up leaving the island, but Takeshi decides that working for Kanako was better for him than working for Head, so he returns to Kanako, who is very forgiving to him and encourages Simone to follow suit with some very wise words "If you wish to become truly strong, learn to forgive those who have wrong you. Only the truly strong are able to do that."

Finally, we learn in the penultimate episode leading into the Grand Finale that the large yacht that she owns? It's not just to show off how rich she is; she always knew that should Zero Time be broken, the volcanoes on the island connected to Zero Time would all erupt and Samekh's power would also be unleashed, so ahead of the final battle she orders everyone to be rounded up and invited on board her yacht in the case of this happening, as it would serve as the escape vessel that could get everyone safely away from the island. Kanako asks Simone and Takeshi "Why did you think I bought such a large boat in the first place?", surprising and impressing them both with her Crazy-Prepared foresight. In the final battle itself, Kanako is one of the Crux members who gains a mark of her own and leads a charge against Head and Samekh, with her maturity and wisdom having clearly rubbed off on Simone by this point as well.

Is she charming? Intelligent? Able to think on her feet? - Check, check, and triple check.

Is she a bitch? Too much of one? - She is very much a greedy, underhanded, often self interested and seemingly callous bitch, but is far from being too much of one. Not only is she mostly a nice, friendly person to other students in class, a respectful Worthy Opponent to Takuto, a true caring friend to Simone despite their rough relationship ("That girl is my shining gem", as Kanako puts it), and with Pragmatic Villainy, Even Evil Has Standards, and Pet the Dog moments to offset how devious and nasty she can be, but a long term plan of hers revolves around saving all the lives on Southern Cross Island as she's able to during a predicted crisis.

The competition? - Same as Head's. Aside from him, no one else stacks up.

Final Verdict? - I believe she keeps, but since I'm no longer sure I have too good a handle on this trope, I'm not sure how much that's worth. tongue

EDIT: Scratch that last remark. This is actually the less debated recent EP. Go figure.

Edited by ANewMan on Feb 20th 2022 at 1:32:14 PM

Synchronicity MOD (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#69875: Feb 20th 2022 at 9:35:11 AM

~A New Man, in case the thump you got after the incident did not make it clear, this thread cannot move on from it if you keep posting about it. Enough with the pity party, please.


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