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Cleanup thread: Magnificent Bastard

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous post 
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

  • Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.

  • What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
    • Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
    • Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
    • Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
    • Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
    • Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.

  • What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.

  • Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.

  • What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
    • Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
    • Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
    • List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
    • The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.

  • How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.

  • What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.

  • What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.

  • What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.

  • Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.

  • What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.

  • Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.

  • What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.

  • Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.

Thread rules

When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.

Resolved items

In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.

However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.

This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.

Definitely an MB

Definitely not an MB

  • South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#69426: Feb 14th 2022 at 2:41:29 PM

Good news. It's consensual in that scene, and he eventually stops the incest entirely and cuts Cersei out of his life. He becomes a far better person, but I agree with Lighty there's still not quite enough there yet.

Everyone has their special sore spot in the from the show, and Jaime's Character Derailment is definitely mine.

Edited by LoreDeluxe on Feb 14th 2022 at 2:42:29 AM

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#69427: Feb 14th 2022 at 2:46:36 PM

Lore, I have the future ones bookmarked, but I'll cut you in for Jaime if he makes it. One I want, honestly, that I'm keeping my eye on? Asha Greyjoy

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#69428: Feb 14th 2022 at 2:49:05 PM

Let's just see where things lead in a few years.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#69429: Feb 14th 2022 at 4:36:49 PM

By the way, I've noticed King!Loki's write up on the MCU page still has the Adaptational Intelligence pothole and sentence ("shows himself to be a far more cunning, competent god than in the Sacred Timeline") when we've approved his sacred timeline incarnation. I don't think this got settled last I brought it up: Are we keeping it or changing it now we have his "original" Variant listed?

Amanofmanyinterests Gotta love Jaws! Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Gotta love Jaws!
#69430: Feb 14th 2022 at 5:18:13 PM

[tdown] to Killua.

Gonna be sporadic in activity this week as I've got exams coming up but I'll check in whenever possible.

"For a second there, I mistook ya for a threat... but you're just a dirty little man!"
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#69431: Feb 14th 2022 at 5:49:00 PM

Alrighty, just gonna sidestep this whole conversation for our very last 1-800-Missing keeper - brief recap, Jess Mastriani helps the FBI solve missing people's cases through psychic visions.

Now that I've binged the whole series, I'm gonna finish it off here and then head on over to the CM thread - so for now, we're finally not talking about one of the villains, we're talking about one of the main characters, John Pollock.

Who is Assistant Director John Pollock? What does he do?

Pollack is the leader of the team in seasons 2 and 3 following a mid-show retool. At first, Pollock seems like an arrogant blowhard who cares for no one but himself, only taking cases that serve his own interests and taking credit for the team's successes when he had nothing to do with them. Over time, however, Pollock peels back the layers, revealing that while he is as arrogant as he acts, he can back up his boasts through his surprising amount of knowledge (especially in the fields of foreign cultures and religions) helping decode Jess's visions, as well as giving his team a lot of leeway if they disobey his orders as long as they bring results. It culminates in his first major gambit in the season two finale when he lets Jess's schizophrenic brother Doug release a fellow schizophrenic to follow them to the location of a dangerous bioweapon, and while it briefly fails because the woman disables the car's tracker, the agents are able to locate her and neutralize the threat peacefully.

Now, Pollock isn't a very linear character since he's in a formulaic procedural (though they kinda gave him an arc later), so Imma just summarize his actions in various episodes in season 3, when he really hits his stride:

    An incomplete list 

"And The Walls Came Down" reveals that he got his career in incredibly shady circumstances - a friend of his, a powerful judge, asked him to get rid of a missing person's case that could've damaged his career. Pollock agreed, but many years later, he gets to redeem himself when he sees through his friend's bullshit, helps avenge the death of the girl that went missing, and ends up even selling the friend out.

In "Last Night", a douchebag teen who kidnapped a child tries to appeal to Pollack's ego, but Pollack, in a rather surprising move, rejects any attempts to appeal to his pride. It's later revealed that when the kidnapper fled to Brazil, Pollock pulled strings to have a General kidnap the kidnapper, even telling them that the father can pay any ransom they like and to do whatever they hell they want with him first. "Looking for Mr. Wright" also features him standing up to the Attorney General of the US and coming out on top after she tries to force him off of the investigation and he ends up rescuing the missing person of the hour.

"Analysis" features him making a deal with a war criminal in order to find a missing woman, though he manages to find the woman in a way that ensures he doesn't have to hold his end of the bargain. Though he's suspended at the end of the investigation for medical reasons (he's mentally spiraling from the death of an agent), the team comes to him for help in two other cases - in the second one in particular, he ends up having a date with the killer of the episode and gives her his PDA; while it allows her to see their movements, it's also a tracker, and it gives them the killer's location.

As he says it: "Dr. Reynolds is great. A master liar, a genius manipulator... I’m just better"

"Cut" then has him blackmail the Hungarian ambassador through his knowledge of the ambassador's previous affairs in his marriage, forcing the ambassador to release the team that's currently incarcerated in Hungary.

And finally, in "Exposure", Pollock basically takes the lead. He not only sees through the Defense Department's attempts to obfuscate the investigation, but also stays a step ahead of the Justice Department throughout the investigation, keeping his agents on track while working his own angle of the case. Later on, to get info out of a reporter, he suggests that the reporter talking might get him an exclusive interview with Pollock himself - and it's only once the reporter spills his guts and reveals another agent's lie that he reveals that he never made any actual promises and there will be no interview. Thanks to him, the FBI come out of the Gambit Pileup on top.

Is he Magnificent?

It takes a long time for his layers to peel back and reveal his good side, but ultimately, Pollock is damn good at his job. His ass-kicking of his agents is a main part of why they succeed so much, but he also proves really intelligent on his own. He's incredibly knowledgeable with foreign cultures and worldwide religions, he's capable of taking on everyone from terrorists to the Attorney General herself without flinching, will often pull his own gambits on cases while the agents work their own angles, and never stops being determined to save lives, even while he's out of a job. He even ends the series in the best place he's ever been in, which his marriage saved and expecting his third child. He's got an ego, but he can back it up (especially in contrast with the guy who takes his job while he's out, who's just as narcissistic but can't actually back up his claims), making him a very key part of the team.

Is he a Bastard?

Slightly, but I think it's there. There are multiple occasions where he outright threatens to kill suspects (though both of them are domestic abusers, but with the second one he goes into grizzly detail about how he'd shoot the guy in the lung to choke on his own blood while he used his connections to get away with it, and the first one is so scared that he's begging for mercy by the end), he got his career for covering up a missing woman's disappearance before he would later redeem himself for that years later, he's generally a selfish dude who only takes cases that benefit him (even telling the agents to ignore other potentially missing people in favor of the ones that benefit him) before his Character Development kicks in, purposefully uses the connections of a war criminal for a case, and has a dude straight up kidnapped in a foreign country (Asshole Victim or not, he tells the general to not only ransom him back to his father because the man can pay it but also to do whatever they hell they want to him first). Pollock's moments of crossing the line are fairly far between, but they're consistently there across his tenure, especially the one that kickstarted his career.

Final verdict?

I think a yes, if only just by our Bastard metric - either way, this show was a trip. What do we think?

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Feb 14th 2022 at 9:18:47 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#69432: Feb 14th 2022 at 6:13:26 PM

Eh, that's probably just enough and just take it out Polar. I'll add it to swaps for this week.

jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#69433: Feb 14th 2022 at 7:13:00 PM

Leaning [tup] Pollack.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
good-morning Lord Something, Forgetter of Cool Titles from Brazil Since: Nov, 2021
Lord Something, Forgetter of Cool Titles
#69434: Feb 14th 2022 at 8:05:05 PM

MagnificentBastard.Marvel Cinematic Universe seems fine, but it includes Hawkeye in the franchise folder. It does mention he becomes Ronin, but I don't think that's the first thing thought about the character, what do you think?

Edited by good-morning on Feb 14th 2022 at 1:07:20 PM

oh hey how are you doing?
DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#69438: Feb 14th 2022 at 9:08:38 PM

[tup] Pollock.

[up]x4 The thread voted and he agreed he counted. Even if it's not the most memorable thing about him, the fact that he was actively a bastard in the present day is enough. See Dumbledore, who is more famous for being "cool old wizard principal dude" but still groomed Harry into being willing to get himself killed, or Oogway, who placed the Furious Five in genuine danger in a canon web video or something.

DocSharp Since: Jun, 2011
#69439: Feb 14th 2022 at 9:14:33 PM

Yes to Pollock.

Here's one of those EPs I promised a while back:

What's the work?

Final Fantasy XIV is a game about time-traveling angel robot castles.

Tonight's subject is the Alexander raid series. A bit of background: one of the main threats to Eorzea, the main region of the world of Hydaelyn that FFXIV takes place, are the Primals, godlike beings that require vast amounts of aether — i.e. the essence of life — to sustain themselves, and are always based off of a pre-existing character in Final Fantasy canon. The Primal for this raid is the traditional holy summon Alexander, a colossal fortress whose very existence threatens to drain Hydaelyn for all she's got.

Thus, the Warrior of Light (that's you!) and their trusted companions focus on infiltrating the mighty being to shut it down for good, but they are hindered by the machinations of the Goblin Illuminati, as well as their leader and prophet Quickthinx Allthoughts, who seek to use the fortress to create their own terrible utopia. However, Alexander isn't quite the mindless machine it seems...

Who is Alexander?

Alexander is a mobile fortress whose design was stashed away within the Enigma Codex, designed by intellectuals who wished to create a utopian paradise for them to thrive and study the mysteries of the world without concern. Three years before the events of the raid, a group of Au Ra tried to use the Codex to make Alexander a reality. It ended poorly - all but two of the Au Ra were killed by Alexander upon his summoning. One of the remaining two, Dayan, was sucked into Alexander's core, while the other, Mide, resorted to trapping him behind a barrier, causing Alexander to disappear and shattering the Codex. Years later, Mide would work with the Illuminati, reactivating Alexander (who is hidden beneath the lake where the summoning took place) and enabling Quickthinx's megalomaniacal desires for the chance to see Dayan again.

In truth, Alexander is a living, thinking being who truly wants a "perfect" world - and not Quickthinx' fascist, destructive idea of one. An actual, perfect world where everyone is happy. Unfortunately, Alexander's very being as a Primal, one that requires a monstrous amount of aether at that, means that anything he does, good or bad, will ultimately destroy the world. Thus, Alexander, from his inception, uses his ability to calculate the future with pinpoint accuracy to orchestrate everything, from his own creation to his own destruction, to minimize his effects on Eorzea and bring about what he views as the best case scenario.

Alexander mainly operates through a clockwork coeurl (read: kitty cat) called "Shanoa" who carries out his bidding, setting up a time loop when Roundrox sends everyone back in time to Alexander's summoning by leaving Shanoa and a journal behind, while also taking Dayan with him, guaranteeing that the events of the raid occur by 1) ensuring the Roundrox of the past finds her own piece of the Codex, 2) ensuring Quickthinx finds the journal and the cat and reactivates Alexander, and 3) ensuring that Mide is so grief-stricken she works with the Illuminati.

Eventually, during the raid's final boss Quickthinx sics Alexander's consciousness, Alexander Prime, on you, but the machine has his own agenda in mind - the battle is a test to see if you are a worthy hero to Eorzea, as the Warrior of Light is the only person whose future Alexander cannot predict, and wants to know if he should entrust the future to you. Should you pass, Alexander sends you back in time during the boss fight to save yourself from the deathtrap Quickthinx locked you in before the fight.

In the end, Alexander kills Quickthinx, blows up the Codex, and has Mide allow herself to be absorbed into his core. Alexander locks himself into stasis, keeping him from harming the world any longer and disallowing anyone to control him ever again, while reuniting Dayan and Mide inside of his core, at some point sending them back into the very distant past to be the creators of the Codex and living happily ever after, ensuring all events come to pass.

Does he hit the marks?

Mmmmmm. So, charm should be an obvious non-issue — Optimus Primal over here is as well-intentioned and good-willed as it gets — buuuuut...

See, here's where this is going to get tricky. Alexander can predict the future with a margin of error of only .02%, making him virtually omniscient. I'm willing to give his intelligence a pass here because actually putting his plans into action requires him to act as subtly as possible, and in that regard he does a damn fine job considering he's a fucking mechanical castle and needs to rely on a teeny tiny robot kitten to act remotely. Plus, since he can't predict the Warrior of Light's future, it's safe to say that he made up the "save them from Quickthinx's deathtrap via time loop" gambit on the fly.

Bastardry is less simple. Remember how MCU Dr. Strange was considered a no go because he could see the future and could confirm there was only one way to win, making his questionable actions not all that bad? Alexander is similar. Every awful thing Alexander does is the result of mathematical calculations to get the best possible future. He's not "doing what needs to be done", he's "doing the only thing that can be done". However, I have a counter for this: the Warrior of Light. Alexander cannot predict them, at all, meaning his actions in regards to them are done independent of any calculations... and that includes dueling them to the death to judge their worthiness, and he will kill you if you fail. So yeah, he's bad enough without his calcs to qualify.

Verdict?

I would understand any hesitance, but I'll say yes.

Edited by DocSharp on Feb 14th 2022 at 9:32:54 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#69440: Feb 14th 2022 at 9:34:49 PM

Yes to Alexander, glad to see another for FF!

PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
#69441: Feb 14th 2022 at 9:37:13 PM

Yes to Alexander. Another character with nigh-omniscient powers who doesn’t abuse them.

Edited by PurpleEyedGuma on Feb 14th 2022 at 12:38:28 PM

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#69442: Feb 14th 2022 at 9:43:59 PM

Yes to Pollock and Alexander.

Let's get these done to get the ball rolling. Proper page placement will come later.

  • A Song of Ice and Fire
    • Mance Rayder, the King-Beyond-the-Wall, was once the greatest ranger of the Night's Watch, but rejoined his wildling kin north of the Wall when he desired true freedom. Recognizing the threat of the Others, Mance uses his diplomacy and leadership to unite the scattered and feuding clans to lead them south to safety, becoming their king in the process. Disguising himself as a skilled bard, Mance often travels into Stark territory right under their noses and uses the strife in the Seven Kingdoms to launch raids against the Night's Watch and eventually force them into parley. He nearly convinces Jon Snow to let his people pass before a surprise attack by Stannis scatters his army. He later works with Melisandre behind Stannis's back to survive his execution and goes to Winterfell in disguise to help rescue Jon's "sister" and weaken the castle for the coming siege.
    • Wyman Manderly is the exorbitantly wealthy and morbidly obese lord of White Harbor, and initially appears to be nothing more than a fun loving buffoon to the other nobility. In truth, Wyman is an ambitious schemer and wrathful father who seeks the downfall of House Bolton and House Frey for murdering his son and his king at the Red Wedding. Playing the role of sycophant, he has Davos seemingly executed but kills another criminal in his place and convinces him to retrieve Rickon Stark in exchange for backing Stannis Baratheon. Placating the Freys to save his other son, he abuses a loophole in guest rights to murder them and bake them into pies, and, in a truly audacious act, feeds them to their kin and the lords Bolton. On a wider scale, Wyman also secretly built a massive war fleet to aid Stannis in the overthrow of the Lannisters and consumate his vengeance.

Edited by LoreDeluxe on Feb 14th 2022 at 9:44:33 AM

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#69443: Feb 14th 2022 at 9:44:09 PM

Btw does anyone mind if I steal this: "The continent of Westeros and surrounding areas, both in books and on television..." from A Song of Ice and Fire for A Song of Ice and Fire? Just an easy way to get the potholes for the franchise and main works.

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#69445: Feb 14th 2022 at 9:47:10 PM

Partly for humor and partly thematically, I basically copied the intro from WarCraft to WarCraft. It doesn't really hurt anything so you should be fine as well.

Edited by LoreDeluxe on Feb 14th 2022 at 9:47:20 AM

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#69447: Feb 14th 2022 at 9:54:56 PM

How's this for a page quote? It's a powerful line and I'm not sure if it fits MB perfectly, but might as well start this discussion.

"My son Wendel came to the Twins a guest. He ate Lord Walder's bread and salt, and hung his sword upon the wall to feast with friends. And they murdered him. Murdered, I say, and may the Freys choke upon their fables. I drink with Jared, jape with Symond, promise Rhaegar the hand of my own beloved granddaughter...but never think that means I have forgotten. The north remembers, Lord Davos. The north remembers, and the mummer's farce is almost done. My son is home." - Wyman Manderly, to Davos Seaworth

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Idisagree Since: Jun, 2011
#69448: Feb 14th 2022 at 10:26:47 PM

[tup] to Alexander. I'd treat his calculations as something akin to a Reality Warper. He can still qualify if he makes great use of it and has a weakness. I mean we've had at least one Villain Sue level Invincible Villain count before.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#69449: Feb 15th 2022 at 12:29:33 AM

[tup] Pollock, Alexander and the Wyman quote

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#69450: Feb 15th 2022 at 1:29:07 AM

[tup]Alexander and Pollock

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

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