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Cleanup thread: Magnificent Bastard

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous post 
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

  • Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.

  • What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
    • Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
    • Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
    • Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
    • Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
    • Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.

  • What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.

  • Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.

  • What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
    • Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
    • Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
    • List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
    • The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.

  • How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.

  • What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.

  • What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.

  • What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.

  • Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.

  • What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.

  • Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.

  • What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.

  • Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.

Thread rules

When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.

Resolved items

In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.

However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.

This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.

Definitely an MB

Definitely not an MB

  • South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#62501: Nov 13th 2021 at 1:42:40 AM

[tup]Korrina, Starr, and Pickman

I'll sadly go with a [tdown]Question. As I don't think he's bad enough (he tries to kill Lex....but like it's Lex and and the other thing is just trying to kill someone already attacking him).

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#62502: Nov 13th 2021 at 1:46:23 AM

[tup] Sooga, Ximena, Kisa, Starr, Pickman and Korina

[tdown] Question and Martin

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#62503: Nov 13th 2021 at 2:46:10 AM

[tup] Korina, Pickman, Starr, and Martin

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#62504: Nov 13th 2021 at 5:02:18 AM

So I started us off with a cm post from this work.

What's the work ?

Wicked Saints is a 2019 fantasy novel by Emily A. Duncan. It is the first book of the Something Dark and Holy trilogy.

The book follows the adventure of a young cleric, Nadezhda "Nadya" Lapteva, from the religious Russian-inspired country Kalyazin, as she wrestles with her faith in a "land of heretics", the Polish-inspired blood magic kingdom Tranavia, with which Kalyazin has been at war with for decades. She ends up involved in not only the politics of the war between the countries, but between the gods whose voices she can hear.

Here is my candidate for here. Who also appears in all three books of the trilogy.

Who is Veylos ?

The Affably Evil God of war, darkness and the dead. Veylos lives for that which he does not have for fun and to amuse himself. Long before the series, Veylos ambition was so great he planned to topple heaven itself but was instead defeated and imprisoned inside an amulet.

But Veylos is ever patient and works to free himself and get his revenge on the Top God Maryzana for imprisoning him. He forsees a great evil is coming in the omnicdial Chyrzog and comes up with a plan to possibly both kill Maryzana and seal Chyrnog. You see Veylos is aware that mortals have forgetton how the four clerics sealed Chyrnog and that Chyrnog has been concoting events to take advantage of that ignorance to free himself. Veylos helps create the four songs, a prophecy and nursery rhyme which fortells how to seal him in hopes of people eventually using it to defeat him. If nothing is done, the world will burn.

His amulet ends up in the hands of the witch Pelgyia who he stirs onto giving it to heroine Nadya and telling her that she should use it if she gets in trouble.

She uses it which as planned, allows Veylos a greater reach into the mortal world. Now he gains a connection to Serren and the ability to speak to him who also has one to Chrynog (long story) after serren dies and comes back to life. He helps mold Serren into helping kill an empowered Malachiaswz who know poses a threatt by visiting him inside his shadow world (Serren has to temporarily die to get there if your asking why he doesn't get out himself. He can only communicate his voice to the outside world from inside it). Through some Training from Hell , Veylos empowers Serren to be able to have and use a god killing blade and tricks him into bringing the group to the place where the fallen gods like Veylos are sealed as well as the only place a god can die as a result . The shed blood of a God will open the seal and free them as planned. Chrynog though decided to intervene and takes over Serren so he can body jump into Malchaiswaz. He then kills Maryzana which functions as the same thing and hence frees everyone. Which is what Veylos wanted...if wanting to kill her himself.

Anyway Veylos keeps in touch with Serren who he's grown to like. He helps the heroes to identify and destroy the various rising minions of Chyrnog that were among the freed. When the serren is killed, Veylos steps in and helps resurrect him. In the land of the dead, he asks whether Serren will become a god or keep his mortality. Seren chooses the latter which is what Veylos was hoping for as four mortals are required to seal Chyrnog. Anyways he leaves in peace after they defeat Chrynog as he planned for so long. And is implied to have even resurrected Serren one last time after he fell in the fight as a final favor to a person he views as a genuine friend.

Magnificent?

Oh yeah, the entire series was set up by him. He created the prophecy and four songs to warn of what's coming and that is vital to besting Chyrnog. He stirs Pelagia into giving his amulet to Nadya. Knowing shell calls on it and it will give him a chance to create a connection with Serren and continue his plan. He then uses him to free him for real and later aids the heroes by helping them take out their enemies. In the end, he also even helps stir Serren into making the right choice to his delight and ends the series free with his revenge fulfilled and the world saved.

His manipulations and how subtle they seem but how far-reaching they are cannot be underestimated.

  • Veylos: Of course you’re being watched. The gods, the freed, the never caged, the old ones, we all watch. We wait to see how you will shift the world on its axis. If you will balance it or plunge it further into chaos.”
  • Serren: Did Pelageya start all of this?
  • Velyos laughed. “The witch? Pelageya has power enough to become a god if she wishes, but every day she turns away from that path. Pelageya is many things, but where you are is no more her fault than it is yours, or that cleric’s, or that Vultures. The world turns. Choices are made. Yes, I had hoped someone would set me free. Yes, I called Pelageya to take the pendant and place it somewhere it might be used. Yes, she complied.”
  • Serren: So, it’s your fault, then.
  • “I have always been one for mischief,” Velyos replied.
  • Serren: This is a little more than mischief. You got what you wanted. You got your freedom and your revenge; what about this four songs nonsense? That was you, wasn’t it?
  • Veylos: “Chyrnog has worked for far longer than I. He has been nudging the pieces of this game for a millennium and you have all complied exactly as
he wished. Mortals are predictable.
  • Veylos: “The four songs? Yes, that was me. Chyrnog was always going to break free. Chyrnog was always going to need to be contained. That’s the way it has always been, but it has been so long since he last escaped that the world forgot him. You mortals thought if you no longer spoke of the terrors of the deep, they would be condemned to myth and no longer ravage the world. Alas, it’s not so easy. This was all inevitable.”

Bastard?

Veylos is a strange fellow. Not evil yet not good either. On the one hand, he seemed to topple the heavens and put himself in charge. On the other hand, Veylos worked for centuries to engineer the defeat of Chyrnog as he wanted to save the world. On the one hand, he does what he does for mischief, on the other hand, he proves himself empathetic to humanity and Seren in particular. But yeah through it all he remains courteous and affable. He orchestrated the events of the entire trilogy and compared them to the utterly evil Chyrnog. He shines as so much better.

Conclusion ?

Definite keep.

Edited by miraculous on Nov 13th 2021 at 5:35:49 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
HighfalutinQuelea Since: Sep, 2016
#62505: Nov 13th 2021 at 5:12:53 AM

I've several characters I'll like to propose from Red Notice. Probably 3 weeks notice or something, just reservin'.

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#62506: Nov 13th 2021 at 5:24:32 AM

So since this seems acceptable, let's talk about this amazing Fire Emblem fanfic, Queen of Sorrow. Let's go with the central character herself, Elincia.

What's the setting?

Queen of Sorrow is a Dark Fic that explores an alternate universe where instead of the Greil Mercenaries saving Lucia from being hanged in Radiant Dawn, they were just too late to save her leading Elincia in a downward spiral that culminate into Elincia going from the kind and merciful if wide-eye idealist to the ruthless and ambitious Queen of Crimea, force to commit some of dark and heinous things in order to protect her kingdom even if it means sacrificing and betraying her old friends in a long web of politics and ideals.

As you can guess, the candidate I have in mind is Elincia herself.

Who is Queen Elincia and what does she do?

The Queen of Crimea, Elincia like in the main game was the kind-hearted Queen desiring to protect his people, facing the inner rebellion led by Duke Ludveck. When her close friend Lucia ended up taking hostage and was threatened to be hang unless she released Ludveck, like in the actual narrative Elincia defied the offer, however that ended up becoming the catalyst of her dark journey, while in the game the Greil Mercenaries were able too save her, in this fanfic they didn't show up and Lucia was hanged. Enraged, Elincia had her soldiers attack the rebels and ordered the immediate hanging of Ludveck without a trial.

With Ludveck dead and his rebellion destroyed, Elincia planned to return to the way things used to be and honor Lucia's memory... unfortunately the information she learned after the battle along with a number of deviation changed that. Learning her friend Bastian knew about the rebellion but kept it hidden, along with him holding the enemy general Betram in his care without her knowledge which ended up resulting in a number of innocent people killed when he escaped, Elincia was pressured by her council of nobles to have Bastian executed for his mistakes despite having banished him before. Threatened the resources she needs to keep Crimea and its people safe, Elincia ended up caving in and hired his assassin Volke to have him killed and beheaded to comply with there demand. While this all happened Elincia had a deep desire to make herself look stronger so she couldn't be cowed like before, which pushed her further into her dark path.

Falling into a spiral from all this pressure and having her close friend killed to the point of having a massive breakdown, Elincia tried to salvage what she could in her situation, such as having Betram who's really her uncle Renning, restored back to normal by Izuka, but after being tricked once more which ended up destroying Betram's mind for good, Elincia's kind self has completely shattered, deciding to use her broken uncle as her weapon and changing her view as what it means to be queen. Facing the impending war between the Laguz and the Begnion Senate which end up broiling to her borders, along with pressure from Vice-Minister Lekain of Begnion to submit to him, and the never-ending attack from Kivlan sent by Lekain and pressure from her noble council, Elincia decided to use extreme methods to face them.

Liberating a number of her towns from Begnion's army with the use of Geoffrey and Bertram and realizing the Laguz and Begnion's massive fight will also claim a great number of her people, Elincia had Leanne and Senator Valtome kidnapped and taken as political hostage although she did end up killing Valtome in a fit of rage, which she had Zelgius taken hostage when he went to retrieve Valtome and defeated him with Betram and herself. Now facing Lekain and her corrupt council's threat, Elincia began a new movement to upheaval her political system while sending Volke to behead Lekain and steal his Blood Pacts after learning of there power from her scholar when Lekain tried to have her sign one. While this, Elincia began embracing her morally corrupt side and became a more cold-hearted and jaded individual.

Using the Blood Pact, she force Naesala and the Kivlan under her heel, using it to kill 1000 Kivlan as an example for Naedala to heel and become her servant, and then use the same on Micaiah to make Daein submit to her. Having completely embrace her inner evil, she then settled with her Council next, out-gambitting Councilor Alm by using Bertram to sadistically threaten and kill his council, taking advantage of there cowardliness to give her the info needed to stop his attempted coup which ended with Alm death. Facing retribution by Begnion soon afterwards, Elincia force Daein and the Kivlan on her side, all the while having hired the Greil Mercenaries in her side, where by the end she decided to have the enemy completely massacred despite surrendering in order to cripple Begnion's might and protect her kingdom in the long run.

This finally earned the irked of Ike and his group, which ends up having Gallia's Laguz, Begnion, and the Greil's Mercenary to form an alliance to overthrow Elincia and despite being pleaded by Ike himself to abdicate the throne as demanded, Elincia denied and face the new coalition. With her wit, Elincia ultimately won by taking advantage of Ike's unwavering belief for her and getting him to touch, after falsifying an honorable battle between the two, the Lekhan Medallion which drove him mad and ended up killing the alliance from inside, while her own protected and safe.

With a decisive victory against her remaining enemies, Elincia ultimately unites the world by bounding the rest of the nation with the Blood Pact earning the respect of Lekhan and Dheginsea and being named the Queen of Tellius. It ends with Elincia trying to maintain the hard earn peace she made all the while reminding herself of the sins she committed to do them, placing the grave of Geoffrey in front of her window where she'll always see it first every morning as her great reminder. She doesn't know if the peace will last, but at the very least she can enjoy it as long as she could.

Is she Magnificent?

Yes, with wit and cunning, and her willingness to do anything, Elincia was able to beat all the odds and out-gambit all of her enemies to submission, from her Senate which she uses there cowardliness against them, to Lekain with the help of Volke, and finally Ike by using the Lekhan Medallion and his hope for her to defeat him. She also enjoyably wicked, when she fully embrace her darker side she can be entertainingly cruel to her enemies, but even then she usually only shows it at genuine malicious people, where against a more grey opponent she's cordial if ruthless.

Admittedly Elincia has made many hiccups throughout the story, like believing Izuka or going hysterical after ordering Bastian's assassination to the point she rave like a lunatic to Geoffrey, but those were early on when Elincia was border lining from her kind self to the more ruthless Queen she wants to project to her people, but by the end Elincia was able to fully take responsibility for her misdeeds and does them in a calculating way for what's best for her people.

There's also possible interpretation of Elincia getting mad with power by the end considering people see her as a 2nd Ashnard, but as explained every action she made is calculating and has a purpose, and ultimately she still succeeds in protecting Crimea by putting them in power over every potential threat.

Too much of a Bastard

I'll list down Elincia's atrocities and reasons she did them.

She had Bastian assassinated, but it was at the behest of her council and it drove her mad to the point of hysteria but in the end accepted what she did. She kidnap Leanne, but that was to make her a political hostage to remove the laguz in her lands and she did let her go afterwards. Killed 1000 innocent Kivlan as a show of force to make Naesala heel especially after he invaded her lands even though it was force by Lekain. Massacred the Begnion Army as her way to cripple them permanently to stabilize Crimea's might and put them at even ground. And finally driving Ike mad to kill his own army which was her way to make sure no more of her allies and people has to die from war. All horrible but for every Elincia does have a reason for them.

And aside from that, Elincia is genuinely kind to his own people shown when she's not handling war time. Even after she tried to comfort the soldiers traumatize by her orders to kill even surrendering soldiers, and allowed Makalov to leave when it became too much for him. Lastly despite claiming she can no longer feel for others or cry tears, as seen with the demise of Ike and Geoffrey, Elincia still has love for those who helped her and she even admit what she did to Ike was something she wanted to avoid and did try by getting him to give up.

Final Verdict:

Funny how this fanfic has a lot of parallels between Elincia and Edelgard despite this being written even before 3H was announce, but yeah Elincia in this fanfic probably keeps. I got another character to propose later in this story.

Also wonder if any of these quotes work?

"You cannot win against me, Ike. It's impossible. And do you know why? You said it yourself earlier. There are some things you won't do in order to win. Things that you won't consider, not matter how dire the situation is. However, I do not have that weakness...not anymore"
Elincia, Queen of Sorrow

"I will be a different kind of enemy. I have no sense of honor anymore, and I am assuredly not mad. I don't expect you to fully grasp this here and now, but when you take up arms against me alongside the laguz, you will remember my words from tonight and you will realize that you are facing certain death. And if Titania was right, you will run away and save yourself."
Elincia, Queen of Sorrow

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
Kirby-Israel Since: Nov, 2021
#62507: Nov 13th 2021 at 6:32:20 AM

I'll make a write-up for Dick Richards soon, and I'll probably list some good potential quotes.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#62509: Nov 13th 2021 at 7:03:37 AM

So the other candidate from Queen of Sorrow, we have Volke.

Who is Volke and what does he do?

Like in the main game, Volke is an infamous assassin but he wasn't really able to show off his skills so he didn't qualify. However this story rectify it by showing off Volke in his full glory. First appearing as Bastian's escort to meet with Elincia, Volke assist the count in taking Betram and explain why he was keeping him in secret despite being an enemy general. Unfortunately for Bastian this earned the ire of the council of nobles in Crimea who demanded his executed and after fighting herself about it, Elincia decided to contact Volke to execute him. Negotiating an extra fee since it means Volke would lose a regular customer and being promised future endeavors for Crimea, Volke accepted the deal although he size up Elincia both to get an understanding and to ease her in using his service knowing she's a first-timer. Hunting down Bastian in a wagon outside the capital, Volke swiftly committed the assassination, taking Bastian's head to Elincia as proof of his job well-done before hiding away.

Volke then shows up again once more, when Elincia decides to hire him to kill Lekain, one of the most powerful men in the country with an offer of 2 million gald. A chapter focus on his assignment, it's revealed Volke uses a number of special gadgets and equipment he either had made or stolen during his time as an assassin. Infiltrating the Begnion headquarters with great talent of sneaking, stealing, and misdirection. Reaching Lekain's domain, Volke took advantage of Lekain private meeting about his replacement of Sanaki with an orphan girl after killing the original, using the info as an extra fee to Elincia. Once Lekain ended up alone, Volke masterfully execute him, knocking him and then tracking down the Blood Pacts Elincia wanted from, before beheading Lekain and escaping without being seen in the most secured building in Tellius.

With his job done and paid, Volke returns to the shadows afterwards, presumably being regularly under the service of Elincia once she took over Tellius.

Is he Magnificent?

Yes, a badass assassin who was able to infiltrate one of the most secured areas in the country, the Begnion Senate Headquarters, but also kill considered one of the most powerful men in the land Vice-Minister Lekain, but did it without getting caught or even the body being discovered until Volke left. Also one hell of a speaker who can size up Elincia and convince her to trust his service once she settled her ambitions.

Too much of a Bastard?

Volke will kill anyone for the right price, even old clients who he was friendly with, but like in the main games Volke is not heartless. He can understand his clients and knows how to ease them up when hiring his service understanding Elincia has doubts being a first-timer, but also being blunt in how this whole things work and Elincia isn't the only one.

Aside from that, Volke is a man of his word who will do whatever his task whole heartedly and never cheats out on his client, although he has no qualms demanding more payment for extra info not included in the initial task. Lastly Volke has subtly shown he can emphasize with others like Elincia, showing some bit of compassion in his situation even when he won't ever admit it.

Final Verdict:

I say he keeps since we get to actually see Volke being the ruthless assassin he is and how he does it, or at least this fanfic version of Volke.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#62510: Nov 13th 2021 at 7:05:26 AM

Will have to abstain on the Queen of Sorrow, sadly - the fact that she actually invokes Blood Pacts, THE most unspeakable crime imaginable in the Tellius-verse, makes me think she's too far over the line.

With ten yeas to two nays, here's Relf.

  • Black Orchid: Martin Relf is a dapper but ruthless magical assassin in the employ of the Lord of Death, a being from the Dreaming, to balance the scales of Karma by executing unpunished sinners. Once a normal man, he made contact with the Lord in his sleep and was trained in combat and forgotten magic, including the ability to switch off one of his five senses at a time, in order to ply his trade. Meeting the Orchid as she searches for a magical grove of trees in England, Martin manipulates her into eliminating his next target, the cannibal witch Black Annis, for him. Later called upon to eliminate the Orchid herself after she decides to slaughter humanity, Martin breaks into her compound, slits the throat of her enemy-turned-brainwashed-servant Elliot Weems, and ultimately corners her with a truck full of liquid nitrogen. Calmly revealing that her pheromone powers can't do anything to him as he's been shutting off his sense of smell in all their interactions, Martin ends up the unlikely savior of humanity by freezing the Orchid solid and shattering her to pieces.

Like Sandman, Swamp Thing, etc., Black Orchid is set in the main DCU, so this writeup should go under that tree, plant pun not intended.

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#62511: Nov 13th 2021 at 8:02:24 AM

[up] I guess I didn't really address the Blood Pact, mainly because invoking the Lekhan Medallion on Ike was seen far worst then the Blood Pacts. Don't know if it justifies or defend her using it, but Elincia was also goaded by Naesala claiming there useless in her hands since she's too kind-hearted and soft and since Naesala recently raze her lands even if he had reasons didn't help. Also Elincia felt horrible for using it and after using it on Naesala's people she vowed she would do what it takes to never invoke them again unless a very last resort which this was a case since she needed man-power to face Begnion and she couldn't trust Naesala to work with her even if she did destroy the Blood Pact for him.

Edited by TheImmortalAngelNewton on Nov 13th 2021 at 8:06:27 AM

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
Riley1sCool Since: Dec, 2014
#62512: Nov 13th 2021 at 8:13:30 AM

Yes to Veylos and Elincia.

The Compress effortpost got me thinking, and, well... here's another MHA villain who's been out of commission for a while.

The work? My Hero Academia is Kohei Horikoshi's hit shonen manga, about a world where everyone has a superpower called a "Quirk," except Izuku Midoriya, who gains the tremendous power of One For All and works to become the world's greatest hero!

Sounds lame, let's look at the fun people!

My Villain Academia (Also called the Meta Liberation Army arc if we don't like fun titles) is the story of Tomura Shigaraki, All For One's successor, Strong, but Unskilled supervillain, and, as we see in this arc, very Tragic Villain, and his League of Villains. Now run-down outcasts thanks to All For One's imprisonment, they go toe-to-toe with the Meta Liberation Army, a legion of Quirk users who hate the chains society and the Hero system places them under. This embroils both sides in an Evil Versus Evil conflict, and beyond being my second favorite arc of the manga so far (Because nothing can top Gentle Criminal) it gives us a solid MB candidate.

Who is Re-Destro? Rikiya Yotsubashi, or Re-Destro, is a descendant of the revolutionary Destro, the head of the Detnerat support corporation... oh, and the leader of a Quirk-based revolutionary organization called the Meta Liberation Army. While the League is about their business fighting a giant monster called Gigantomachia (long story) they get a call from Re-Destro, who is holding their broker, Giran, hostage. The League, being the absolute saps that they are, show some concern, and Re-Destro tells them that not only is his organization responsible for the League's rise to fame, but they've already found the League, confirming it by telling them their exact location. Giran claims he's deleted vital info on the League, but Re-Destro has his support team recover it all too quickly.

The League goes to take on the Meta Liberation Army, and this being My Hero, epic and ridiculous fights ensue. Re-Destro's current goal, which I'll outline here: he wants to finally boot up the MLA's revolution, but the League is a hit with the masses, and the people would follow them instead of the Army... anyways, Re-Destro doesn't give Giran back despite claiming he would, and the Army give the League the fight of their fucking lives. While Shigaraki uses a backup plan and calls in the giant monster, unbeknownst to Re-Destro, Re-Destro keeps cool and calm, even as his minions start breaking down, always keeping a close eye on the proceedings. The battle of wits here is insane, but Re-Destro keeps up quite nicely and affirms that he genuinely loves his comrades.

When the fight finally gets taken to Re-Destro, he breaks out his own Quirk: Stress, which allows him to power up based on built-up stress. (I wish I could do that.) Re-Destro didn't really see Shigaraki summoning a giant monster coming, but he focuses on the fight and absolutely wipes the floor with my favorite emo boy. As Re-Destro prepares to destroy him, Shigaraki has a flashback, and we all know what that means in a shonen... Re-Destro actually starts panicking when Shigaraki reaches his true power. Ultimately, Shigaraki comes out the victor, Re-Destro comes out minus two legs thanks to a Life-or-Limb Decision... and Re-Destro proceeds to be a Graceful Loser, granting Shigaraki the title of Grand Commander of the Meta Liberation Army after seeing his resolve and passion, and then becoming a hilarious Professional Butt-Kisser to boot.

Re-Destro shows up again in the Paranormal Liberation War, and while his contributions aren't as big as the huge waves Dabi makes or the subtler yet just as meaningful maneuvers Compress takes, he does repeatedly show that he's still quite the badass, managing to hold off UA student Tokoyami and his powerful Quirk Dark Shadow, as well as temporarily save his own warrior Geten from the Pro Hero Edgeshot, who ultimately brings him down and places him under arrest, with both sides of the battle leaving in shambles.

Is Re-Destro magnificent? Yes. Re-Destro is Affably Evil, runs a massive terrorist organization, and its members have cult-like levels of loyal to Re-Destro. He uses his vast media empire to build the League's popularity. He kidnaps Giran, gets his valuable info despite his best efforts, tracks down the League to challenge them, and organizes special measures for all of them, most of which are only overcome because the League unlocks new powers. He has a genuine philosophy and cares for his troops, and while he does break down a bit, he throws in the towel when the time comes and is a Graceful Loser after coming to believe Shigaraki is a rightful successor to his legacy, stopping extra casualties among his men and losing with dignity. Then he comes back in the Liberation War and does some hard work to try and protect his troops, as well as serve Shigaraki in the war effort, before ultimately going down in a straight fight.

Only problem with him is that he's initially going up against Shigaraki, who's really learned to play the Xanatos Speed Chess game by this point, but I'd argue he holds his own in their war of tactics, and while he loses he's willing to admit that Shigaraki's just a little better than he is at this game, and concedes.

Is Re-Destro a bastard? He's a complicated man, Re-Destro. I think his bastardry is best defined by the scene where he murders his own secretary for inadvertently painting him as a terrorist... and then genuinely seems to feel remorse for it. Re-Destro is very evil, running the Army which I've established is basically a cult, up to and including stupid and suicidal actions to defeat their enemies, but he also genuinely believes in his ideals and cares about his men. Re-Destro is a vicious cult leader and terrorist, but the guy's a Well-Intentioned Extremist who absolutely pales in comparison to All For One's villainy, and who willingly passes down his whole empire to a younger successor with no ulterior motive whatsoever. He's evil, yes, but very honorable and genuinely affable, encouraging to both his own men and his enemies.

Conclusion? I'd say yes here.

Edited by Riley1sCool on Nov 13th 2021 at 11:07:42 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#62513: Nov 13th 2021 at 8:33:17 AM

[tup] Re-Destro

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#62514: Nov 13th 2021 at 8:58:58 AM

Yes to Re-Destro but I wouldn't mind hearing from other Fire Emblem players about how bad the villains' crimes are in this Dark Fic. They might be well-intentioned but somethings can still take a character beyond the pale.

Oh and yes to Veylos as well.

Edited by 43110 on Nov 13th 2021 at 4:59:30 PM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#62515: Nov 13th 2021 at 9:04:48 AM

[tup] to Re-Destro

I haven't played the Radiance Fire Emblems, so I could use some explination of the blood pact too

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#62517: Nov 13th 2021 at 9:18:50 AM

For the villains in the fanfic aside from Villain Protagonist Elincia, we got Lekain and the Begnion Senate, Izuka, and OC Alm a noble of Crimea.

Lekain is the one who actually was the first to use the Blood Pacts which he did to hold Daein and the Kivlan in serving him which involves attacking and invading Crimea for his selfish ambitions also tried to get Elincia to sign one otherwise he'd have Crimea completely destroyed and the people enslaved. He also was responsible for the massacre of the Heron which is the reason the war between Begnion and the Laguz happened.

Izuka is responsible turning people feral which are mainly at laguz but he also did the same to Elincia's uncle Renning who's Betram true identity. While his role is cut short from the game because Elincia killed him earlier, he still push her in a corner by tricking her into letting him use a cure to bring her uncle back, only for him to poison to permanently destroy Renning's mind and make him into Elincia's mindless servant to twist the knife on her.

And Alm is the Crimea noble who try to drive Elincia in her earlier heinous acts like Bastian's assassination or taking political hostage by threatening to use his influence to remove all the resources of Crimea making it easy picking for other nations, especially Begnion, to invade Crimea. Also when Elincia begins becoming too powerful for him, decides threaten a coup by burning the capital and killing majority of its citizens unless Elincia burns them and submits herself to him and the other nobles.

As for the Blood Pact... well to put it simply it's a treaty where signed can enslave a whole nation to the person who made it. What it does is if signed by a leading figure of a nation, they are under the whim of the person who made the contract and the person who made the contract can write a number behind it which will kill the same number of citizens written by the Blood Pact maker and the people killed are random. The only way to break them is one of the two bounded by the Blood Pact has to die and the Pact destroyed.

It's really bad though admittedly how Lekain and Elincia used them are different, with Lekain using it to force nations to fight for him or fulfill his greed and riches, Elincia uses it by the end as an armistice for the whole country to force the nations not to engage in war. There's also heavily implications at the end that Elincia plans to burn them once enough time pass although she plans to do them in secret.

Edited by TheImmortalAngelNewton on Nov 13th 2021 at 9:22:14 AM

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
TellAll111 Since: Jun, 2010
#62518: Nov 13th 2021 at 9:27:04 AM

[tup] for Kisa, Martin, Starr, Pickman, Korina, Veylos, Elincia, Volke, and Re-Destro.

[tdown] for the Question.

Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#62519: Nov 13th 2021 at 10:37:26 AM

Here's the draft for Sooga's entry (and I haven't added any potholes yet but I do have some ideas):

Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity: Sooga is the brave, loyal second-in-command of the Yiga Clan, and Master Kohga's personal bodyguard. Rescued by Kohga as a starving youth, Sooga repays his gratitude by becoming the greatest Yiga Blademaster of all time, serving as the field Yiga commander while Master Kohga naps in his hideout. On the battlefields, Sooga is a formidable opponent and a cunning tactician, dividing his opponents' forces with feint attacks and sabotaging equipments to hinder their advances. If the tide of battle turns against him, Sooga honorably withdraws his forces to prevent pointless bloodshed and takes full responsibility for their losses. When the wicked Astor betrays the Yiga Clan and sends his minions to harvest Kohga's soul, Sooga defends his master to the very end, making his Last Stand against four Blight Ganons while mortally wounded. His sacrifice moves the Yiga Clan to join Zelda's growing army against Calamity Ganon, with Master Kohga swearing to avenge his dearest comrade and bodyguard.

jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#62520: Nov 13th 2021 at 11:24:06 AM

[tup]Veylos. Will read the other EPs later. Right now I've got a very easy keeper:

What's the work?: In The Scorpion's Tale we meet a man only known as "The Scorpion" played by the great Maximilian Hernandez (otherwise known as Jasper Sitwell) on death row. His son comes to help him with his upcoming trial, but the Scorpion seems fatalastic about the whole thing. However there's more to the story than we thought...

What does he do?: We start the short with a corrupt warden collecting payments from prisoners, while he takes the Scorpion to meet with his son. The son tries to get his father to focus on his upcoming trial by looking at documents, but his father is distant. It flashes back to a hit he was contracted to do. He tracked his target for days learning his schedule, and then dressed up as a construction worker and discretely planted a bomb on the targets car. However on the day the target was supposed to die, his girlfriend unexpectedly showed up. The Scorpion panicked a little and tried to scare her away drawing his gun and shooting in the air, telling her to get her out of the car. Unfortunately this spooked her and she turned the key in the ignition...

Now in prison, the Scorpion is remorseful. Over the flashback he told his son of the parable of the Scorpion and the Frog, and tells his son to forget about him. He only asks for the gift of cigarettes. Meanwhile the Warden comes to take the Scorpion away, while revealing himself to be a bit of a racist dick. While walking the Scorpion realizes they're not going back to his cell. The warden says he's disappeared the Scorpion so he'll never be found, there's currently no record of him at the prison. The Scorpion reveals that the target was ostensibly the warden's wife's lover and those are the two he killed. In reality he was her attorney and after tracking her for weeks he saw no affection between them. He surmises that the wife was recently beaten by the warden and simply ran to her attorney because she had nowhere else to go. He figures she knew about the warden's illegal dealings (and her attorney did as well), and the warden was trying to kill two birds with one stone. The warden admits as much and says he's going to keep the Scorpion locked up forever so he won't reveal anything.

At which point the guard who has been escorting the Scorpion removes his handcuffs and subdues the warden. The scorpion says that he can't stomach killing two people for the price of one. That wasn't part of the deal. The warden says he can pay, and the Scorpion replies that he knows: the bribes the warden has been taking come from the organization the Scorpion works for. The warden claims the Scorpion can't just walk out, but he replies that he can, the Warden deleted him from the system. As long as he takes the Wardens clothes, he should be able to walk write out. And if they question him, the cigarettes he got say visitor on them, so nobody will think twice. The Scorpion then walks out of the prison in the Wardens clothes, while he's stuck in a prison jumpsuit while being locked in the unit he was going to put the Scorpion. While walking out he states to the guard his debt has been paid. Earlier it is shown that the documents had a signal to the guard, so that's why he helped the Scorpion.

As he is leaving the prison, he meets with his "son" who is revealed to be a junior partner in the organization. They drive off into the desert to meet up with the Hawk as "debts are owed."

Charming? Good Planner? He's extremely methodical and careful in his methods. We see him track his target for weeks, and disguise himself. He manages to complete turn the tables on the corrupt warden, flawlessly acting the part of someone who is fatalistic, yet he ends up pulling one completely over the Warden. His true personality is confident and self assured. He does briefly panic when he sees the wife, but it's nothing disqualifying and as stated he completely manages to get one over on the Warden.

Bastard? He's a hitman working for a nebulous criminal organization, and he did kill two people that we see. But that's the only thing we see, not much else past that. Easy pass. Now it is somewhat unclear whether he's upset at killing the woman because of a moral standard or because he wasn't paid to, but either way he's nowhere near too bad for this. He does seem to be a mentor to his "son."

Verdict? [tup].

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#62521: Nov 13th 2021 at 11:31:43 AM

[tup]The scorpion.

Though guys could we let things settle for a bit after this before the next one. 5 eps a page is probably way too much for people to handle.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#62522: Nov 13th 2021 at 11:57:28 AM

Agree with Mir, and sorry for adding the fifth one. Anyway [tup]Re-destro, haven't finished reading Elincia and Volke.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
#62523: Nov 13th 2021 at 12:09:54 PM

Yes to Veylos, Elincia, Volke, Re-Destro, and the Scorpion.

Edited by PurpleEyedGuma on Nov 13th 2021 at 3:10:05 PM

DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#62524: Nov 13th 2021 at 12:37:11 PM

[tup] to Volke, Re-Destro and the Scorpion.

Ran this quote by Riley. What do you guys think?

With his true origins forever shrouded in mystery, the Joker is one of Batman's greatest ever foes; intent on spreading mirth and mayhem in equal measure. Despite his clownish appearance, this laughing lawbreaker has proven himself to be as clever as he is chaotic... and that's no joke.
The Joker's bio, LEGO DC Super-Villains'

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#62525: Nov 13th 2021 at 12:41:19 PM

Yes to Volke, Re-Destro, and the Scorpion

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread

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